RadPowerBike RadCity Commuter

I haven't noticed any leg hit, it is inside the chain so the chain would get hit first. The Bolton cables barely reach where it is.

I played with settings and got PAS and regen to work. Light is working. Found a page that indicated 46 poles for a similar motor from this maker, changed that from 86 or so to 46 but haven't retested. Not shure what they do with motor poles. Doesn't affect speed reading, that's a different setting.

The motor temp sensor seems to read 59F, probably not working since ambient was about 80.
 
KT-LCD8H Color Display

hold middle button to turn on/off
hold down button for walk mode
hold up button 2 seconds to turn on/off backlight and headlight
click middle to shift displays
hold up/down till flashing, then click middle button to reset trip meter

Settings for LCD 8H Color Screen

advanced settings are all on one page
turn off, then on with middle power button
within 5 seconds hold up/down buttons to enter settings mode

choose a setting with up/down
click power to enter change mode, use up/down buttons
click power to end changing that setting
go to the next setting
hold power for a couple seconds to store and restart

45 lim max speed limit up to 72 km/h (20:32, 25:40, 28:45)
26 dim tire size, inches
3 units mph / kmph / temperature C / F, 0-3 all combos

46 p1 motor gears time motor magnets or poles
1 p2 motor speed pulse magnet setting, per rotation, usually 1
1 p3 0 pas scaled/full throttle, 1 for full throttle
0 p4 0 always on throttle, 1 for pedal first
12 p5 0 realtime voltage display, 1-15 for battery filtering

3 c1 pas trigger sensitivity, reversing ??
0 c2 motor phases 1-7 for sinewave tuning, 0 is good
8 c3 level of pedal assist at turn-on 0-5, 8 means memory from last use
0 c4 0 full throttle; 1 throttle limited till pedal
10 c5 0-10 output power 0 half, 10 full
3 c6 0-5 backlight adjustment
0 c7 0 cruise off, 1 cruise control enabled
0 c8 1 enable motor temperature display, if sensor hooked up
0 c9 leave at 0, 1 is set password, DO NOT USE
N c10 N for normal, Y returns all settings to default
0 c11 communication protocol to transfer settings, leave at 0
4 c12 cut off minimum voltage 4: 24V, etc, see table
5 c13 0 off, 1-5 regen strength, 1 most efficient, 5 strongest
1 c14 pas tuning, 2 default, 1 less, 3 more power

L1234 settings for high power bikes
0 L1 default 0
0 L2 default 0
1 L3 default 1
5 L4 default 5

value before setting is used for our RadCity
 
Going from memory, lessons learned-

The P1 calibrates the speedo. If it seems to be giving inaccurate speeds, this is the place to mess with it

the P2 setting, it basically turns output from an external speed sensor on and off. The direct drive doesn't need one, so you would use P2=0. On a gear drive hub, if P2 is set to 0, the speedo works, but drops to 0 when coasting. So when moving to the gear drive from the previous DD hubs, I had to install a sensor and set P2=1. See the MAC note for C8

P4=0 allows the throttle to work from the time the bike is turned on. Nice here, for it's ability to get the bike moving from a stop.

P5 calibrates the battery gauge. 12 works fine for me.

I set C3=1 so the bike is ready to go when turned on. (PAS will be set to 1)

I do use C5 to limit the power to the MAC, mostly to protect the battery's internal 14 ga wire and 20a fuses, but also for battery conservation. Set to limit power to 11-1200w at full throttle.

Re:C8, The motor temp needs a sensor inside the hub. Usually a white wire. White wire on a MAC hub is a speed sensor which must not be used as it confuses the display. Must be disconnected.

I do use C14 as well. You can trim the wattage range while traveling in the different PAS settings. I use PAS 1 and 2 mostly, set to run at just under 100w in Pas 1 and 175-200w in PAS 2. Noteworthy is that these values will change when messing with C5
-Al
 
AHicks said:
Going from memory, lessons learned-

The P1 calibrates the speedo. If it seems to be giving inaccurate speeds, this is the place to mess with it

the P2 setting, it basically turns output from an external speed sensor on and off. The direct drive doesn't need one, so you would use P2=0. On a gear drive hub, if P2 is set to 0, the speedo works, but drops to 0 when coasting. So when moving to the gear drive from the previous DD hubs, I had to install a sensor and set P2=1. See the MAC note for C8

P4=0 allows the throttle to work from the time the bike is turned on. Nice here, for it's ability to get the bike moving from a stop.

P5 calibrates the battery gauge. 12 works fine for me.

I set C3=1 so the bike is ready to go when turned on. (PAS will be set to 1)

I do use C5 to limit the power to the MAC, mostly to protect the battery's internal 14 ga wire and 20a fuses, but also for battery conservation. Set to limit power to 11-1200w at full throttle.

Re:C8, The motor temp needs a sensor inside the hub. Usually a white wire. White wire on a MAC hub is a speed sensor which must not be used as it confuses the display. Must be disconnected.

I do use C14 as well. You can trim the wattage range while traveling in the different PAS settings. I use PAS 1 and 2 mostly, set to run at just under 100w in Pas 1 and 175-200w in PAS 2. Noteworthy is that these values will change when messing with C5
-Al

Thanks for your comments.

This motor may have a speed sensor in it as P1 doesn't seem to matter and P2 is set to 1 and the speed readout seems ok. It does seem to have a long filter time constant so perhaps changing P2 to 0 and then using P1 would give it more pulses to work with. Should try that. Should also compare to GPS, have not done that yet.

Probably will try C3=1 or 2 because 8 seems to set to either 5 or the last used, which can be more than wanted

Seems to be no motor temp sensor connected, it sits at 59F when enabled
 
This appears to be the motor used in the RadCity. It could be a variant, the colors appear to be customized.

Shengyi

http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html

type DGW09S (also DGW09C)
spec 24-28" rear wheel drive electric bicycle motor
spoke hole 12g 36h 3.2-3.4mm
voltage 36V,48V
efficiency >= 80%
cable side: left (not in axle)
magnet rate: 46 poles
reduction gear: direct drive
fork size 135mm
inside speed sensor: 1,6 (probably 1 or 6 pulses)
hall sensor with/without
free wheel screw 6-7S (also is 10 speed cassette model)
disk brake mounting
waterproof ip54
weight 4.9kg
max power 500W
suitable for mountain bikes
available colors black or silver
width spoke flanges 32mm
outside diameter 247mm
 
I didn't really try. Too many projects here at the moment, and we have the real thing to test. Also some key parameters are not there.

Son called awhile ago, he's at work and he can't get the battery off the RadCity. If he can't get it off he can't charge it, and he probably won't have enough juice to get home. He works late. It may be a long night...

Hopefully he figured it out. Talking to me on the phone wasn't helping.

This is the first commute since the upgrade. Hopefully it won't sour him on the bike totally. Maybe we'll have a bike for sale cheap. :)
 
Well, getting the battery off should be pretty simple as long as it's fully unlocked. It may need a good whack with the palm of his hand to move it up (away from the seat post) and out of it's cradle. Hopefully he'll figure that out.
 
He worked it out. He also had trouble getting the headlight to turn on for the home trip, but I was able to help him with that on the phone.

So he made one commute with the new setup, and made it home with about half the battery left. Amazing considering how much more acceleration this controller has. He's managing his energy usage much better by slowing a little and pedaling a little more.

Update - it turns out that power required to get to work is more than required to return home. There's enough variation in gradient that it is not obvious when riding the route, but this has been consistently observed in actual power usage. Getting to work results in a fairly low battery while getting home almost half remains.

I've had trouble getting the battery off also. It seems the markings on the key are hard to see, and of course if that's not in the right position it doesn't move, and it is very snug as well. It's also similar but different from the battery on the Peugeot. A lot of that is just lack of practice.

Has anyone messed with C2 sinewave tuning? Wonder if that might help with the buzzing resonances. Shure doesn't sound like either the original or any of my other sinewave controllers.
 
Re: C2, I've run 0 on everything with pretty good luck as far as quiet and smooth, even the MAC. The exception being the wife's 1000w DD motor. The the controller is set to 0, that motor runs with a distinctive light "ring" when under power. No roughness, just that ring. And it does great regarding making miles on a single charge. It's kinda like a half way split between a sine wave and a square wave. Seems like I tried a couple of different settings to quiet it, but it's been a while. Won't cost a cent to try a few different settings t see what happens!
 
Just got my Radcity Stepthru couple of months ago. At 75 miles a high pitch noise coming from front wheel. Sounds almost like rubber rubbing rubber. Intermittent. Has anyone else had this?

Also would possibly like to have a second battery (exact dropin) Would anyone know of any other sources than RadPower and what would be the correct battery. Just hate to pay 600.00 plus for another battery.
Thank you
 
AHicks said:
formula101 said:
AHicks said:
formula101 said:
You're looking for a bike that you can ride at 20 to 25 mph, so you buy a class2 bike that tops out at 20 mph, then complain that the bike is too slow.

Yeah, the bike is not the problem here. smh.

You're inexperience is hanging out sir.

It tops out at 20 because it's limited electronically (that's how it got the Class II rating). The Bolton kit doesn't know Class II from a hole in the wall. It's just fine with removing that restriction, or any others RAD has in place.

The rad isn't really capable of anything beyond 24 mph even with a kit.

You're better off buying a class 3 instead such as a juiced bikes. They start at $1800 vs $1500 and have several significant upgrades:

-hydraulic brakes

-28 mph top speed (more like 30-32 mph real world)

-52 volt battery standard

-3 or 4 frame sizes

-3 colors (if that's your thing)

-torque sensor

-9 vs 7 speed drivetrain

-stock 52 tooth chainring

-ergo grips vs. undersized fake leather grips

-standard 1000 lumens headlight

-cadence sensor built in

The rad should never be on anyone's list for a fast bike.

Do you even have an ebike? You just don't get the purpose of this string do you. We're here discussing a Rad City and what can be done to improve it. I don't think replacing the entire bike is on the table.

I was interested in an ebike but after several months of weight resistance training I am far stronger and I'm starting to wonder if I really "need" one. Well I may not "need" one anymore, but I certainly want one. :p I'm waiting to see what upgrades might be available for 2020 models.

Why is replacing the bike "off the table?" Is there a law against selling used bikes in your country? If a bike doesn't meet my needs, I either mod it if that will fix the issue, or I sell it or give it away. There's nothing immoral, strange or impractical about selling a bike.

If you like working on bikes, that's great, but clearly there are many class 3 hub motored bikes which are much faster. Bikes like the pace 500, surface604 shred, and juiced, all reach 29 mph easily on flats and can get up to 32 mph w/low wind, low rider weight etc.

It's something to consider. If for whatever reason you feel like you MUST keep a rad city no matter what, that's something different altogether: that's simply a personal choice.

Personally I'd rather own a class3 hub motored bike which was capable of 30+ mph right out of the box if speed and affordability were my priorities, rather than slaving over a bike to get it to 24/25 mph max.
 
E-HP said:
formula101 said:
Why is replacing the bike "off the table?" Is there a law against selling used bikes in your country? If a bike doesn't meet my needs, I either mod it if that will fix the issue, or I sell it or give it away. There's nothing immoral, strange or impractical about selling a bike.

The suggestion may be to start a thread on your topic instead adding unrelated comments to Alan B's thread on the RadPowerBike. I think what's "off the table" is going so far off topic as to suggest replacing the bike ; the purpose of this thread is not to replace the bike but about the bike itself.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=152

Exactly, Thank You. The comments regarding the Juiced bikes and Formula's personal preferences, right or wrong, are a different topic.
 
That's fair. I was under the assumption that you were looking for a bike that was as fast as possible in the radcity's price range.

I am certainly not here to endorse that particular brand (nor any other). To wit, there are still ongoing reports that the juiced bikes display does not function properly when exposed to rain. Also, sadly, there are still reports that the battery does not remain in place and that power can and does cut out abruptly. I get the distinct impression that they are cheap bikes using lower end components. How else can you stuff a 52volt battery onto a bike and still only charge $1700?

Unfortunately I am going to have to cross juiced bikes off my list. There aren't many brands on my list actually. I may have to pony up $4K for a Frey although I'd prefer to spend $2500 or less. Best of luck with mods.
 
I recall a thread years ago where a guy wanted to climb hills faster. He bought an Optibike for 15K or so and knew he had the best there was. Then he went on a ride with some other folks and was totally blown away by a DIY direct drive hubmotor bike that didn't even have a pedal chain. Putting some mods on a bike can far exceed what the manufacturers are allowed to sell, unless you buy something that is essentially already a modded "offroad only" type ebike.

It is also interesting that folks who haven't bought their first ebike feel the need to advise others who have built many ebikes that they bought the wrong one. :)

Anyway thanks for all the comments and best of luck in shopping. I was quite interested in a Juiced ODK U500 folding fatbike, then the VeeGo 750 looked even better but haven't followed it lately. I don't have a fat tire bike yet... But back to the son's commuter..

In this case we chose the RadCity as a good starting point expecting that it might need some help (hacking). We've spent less than 2K with upgrades and it is doing pretty well. It has a number of features that would have been hard or expensive to add to his DIY ebike, and it looks nicer, and it is a new bike. It is also good that he has two ebikes because sometimes one is not ready for use for some reason, and he has a backup to get him to work.

The wife is a bit frustrated that the RadCity isn't perfect from the showroom. But I know that 2K+ up front would have been a show stopper. Even if we end up over that in total, it is a path that works for us.

Each of us has different requirements and goals, as well as different interests, experience and expertise. So each journey is unique.

In any case, as we mentioned in the first posting this thread is about our experience with the RadCity, and making it useful for the purpose of commuting. If we decide to try a different bike, as was pointed out, it would end up in a different thread. I generally make one thread about each bike, and that thread reflects the history and life cycle of that bike as it is transformed. Some folks make a new thread frequently about this or that little piece, and then the whole story is fragmented.

We've been busy lately and haven't added to this thread. My son has made more commutes with it. He forgot to charge it one day and had to take the old bike, so that was good to have. One goal would be to have interchangeable batteries. Unfortunately that's pretty expensive.

I've been thinking about having a small range extender or extra small capacity battery. It is easy on the 52V Canyon Express. It's not so easy on the 48V RadCity. Perhaps selling the RadPower 48V battery and converting the RadCity to 52V would be worth doing. Have to think about that. I have two mounting plates for the 52V 14AH shark already. And I have a 52V 6AH mighty mini battery that will do as a range extender. I don't know what we could get for a nearly new RadPower battery and controller, but I've heard they are not hard to sell. Something to consider. That would give the RadCity a small boost in speed, but remember we were not as concerned about top speed as about slowing down while climbing, and 52V would help that even more with the new controller.

My son has complained that the throttle has a lot of dead motion at the low end. I don't recall a controller setting that would affect that. He thinks the throttle itself is bad, but I have my doubts about that. I haven't looked at it closely.
 
It should have a significant dead travel, that's standard. I believe the point is that your motor springs into action only when you really want it to, not because you accidentally moved the throttle a little when you were wrestling the handlebars etc.
 
donn said:
It should have a significant dead travel, that's standard. I believe the point is that your motor springs into action only when you really want it to, not because you accidentally moved the throttle a little when you were wrestling the handlebars etc.

Perhaps, however I've not seen a super-wide low end deadband on any other throttle/controller setup. Keep in mind this is the upgraded controller, not the stock one. It may also be a combination of things. With these connectors it is not easy to measure the voltages to see if the throttle output is low.
 
I'm not a fan of the twist throttles as they bother my wrist. I went with a thumb throttle because of that, and because I just use it on occasion. It's quick and easy, then back to normal using PAS here. I use it most frequently to get the bike moving from a stop, and for a short temporary boost, e.g. small hill or rise. There is no early dead band on the one I'm using, and I don't remember any setting anywhere in the parameters that would allow an adjustment there. -Al
 
That is rather petty and passive aggressive, esp. in light of the fact that I agreed to let the issue go and let bygones be bygones and to carry on.

But as I have already stated and since it refuses to sink in, I'll state the obvious once again (not that the facts matter at this point): An ungoverned class 3 bike with a hub motor is going to be much faster than a modded class 2. Pace 500, JuicedBikes and Surface604 Shred all qualify.

I've been critical of the quality of juiced bikes, so it's only fair that a critique of Rad is in the offing. The Rads are cheap bikes.

The vinyl grips are the cheapest I've ever seen on any bike, regardless of price.

The shifter mech is far and away the cheapest, bulkiest and cheesiest looking shifter I have ever seen. Ever. And I've been riding just about every day for the past 30 years.

The freewheel spec'ed in the past rusts so easily it's embarrassing.

The ride position is so upright it's ridiculous. I wouldn't be surprised if the typical rider lost a third of the potential range compared to a bike with a more conventional ride position. I'm a big believer in proper bike fit, but these bikes are designed for seniors who have zero flexibility.

Rad bikes are a lot of fun to ride, but the quality of componentry is so abysmal it's almost laughable.

At $2K, all of the class 3 bikes I listed are faster: Aventon at only $1500 (with hydraulic brakes), Juiced at $1700 (the extra $200 is a pittance considering how much faster it is and how much better the components are), and the surface 604 at $2100 which again offers a superior list of components, as it should. I should add that all three of these bikes offer multiple frame sizes which the rad's don't.

Again, no one is forcing you to keep the rad city. It's clearly an inferior value compared to the bikes I mentioned. Rad overcharges since they've spent so much money on marketing. Paying and giving away dozens of free bikes to you tubers and reviewers costs a lot of money. It's money well spent in terms of boosting sales, but a terrible value for discerning riders.

Don't throw good money after bad. Rads aren't designed for speed. They're designed to make money for RadPower.

Alan B said:
It is also interesting that folks who haven't bought their first ebike feel the need to advise others who have built many ebikes that they bought the wrong one. :)
 
And yet I've ridden dozens of e-bikes. A typical demo ride for me is around an hour, or longer. It doesn't take long to figure out whether a bike is good, or whether it fits or not though. I know whether a bike fits almost immediately. It only takes a few seconds of riding to figure that out. I know whether a bike is any good within a couple of minutes of riding. If I like the bike, I like to give it a longer ride, as long as I'm allowed by the manufacturer.

Like I've said, I've ridden daily for well over 3 decades, and clock in approx. 100 miles of riding a week minimum.

As I said before, rad bikes use the cheapest componentry possible: 7 speed steel freewheels, no-name shifters and grips, generic, single sized frames, etc. This is the cheapest of the cheap. So cheap, I've literally never seen the shifter spec'ed on rads spec'ed on any bike at any price in 30+ years. The cheapest of the cheap thumb shifters from the 80's looked far nicer, were far smaller, and worked with far more reliability than what Rad currently uses. Who came up with thing anyway? It should not be used on any bike, period.

Sorry bud, you got the wrong guy. :D

btw, I've been meaning to take a spin on a rad city, but if it's as bad as you all say, maybe you just saved me some time instead lol.

Don't throw good money after bad. It's just common sense. The rad bikes are fun, but bottom of the barrel cheap. The long term bikes I've seen from rad owners are in atrocious condition. What kind of paint are they using anyway? It must be the stuff that self destructs within a few weeks. I've seen some rentals that look like they were dragged across city streets on their sides for miles on end. Aesthetics is another area where they've cheaped out. Just like the shifter. Just like the freewheel. Just like the frame.

Their largest area of expenditure is in MARKETING. That's why you're paying $1500 for an ultra cheap, generic e-bike!

E-HP said:
formula101 said:
That is rather petty and passive aggressive, esp. in light of the fact that I agreed to let the issue go and let bygones be bygones and to carry on.
Alan B said:
It is also interesting that folks who haven't bought their first ebike feel the need to advise others who have built many ebikes that they bought the wrong one. :)

The reason you get those comments is because they are true. E-bkes are the type of thing where experience is king. Riding a few times around a parking lot to demo a bike provides no credibility at all. Members on this forum range in their expertise outside of the e-bike world, and many are engineers or other highly technical professions, but one thing is universal; while technical knowledge is helpful to understand the various aspects of e-bikes, it's really the experience that provides value, and what people come here to seek. So yes, frustrating as it might seem, you have no cred.

At the top of the page, there's a button that says "New Topic". You've used it once before; I'm sure you can figure out how to use it again, instead of leaving a dozen off topic posts on an otherwise fine and informative thread.

PS. Read this fast, since I will delete it later to keep the thread clean.
 
Also, as I said earlier (scroll up), I agreed to let bygones be bygones before Alan decided to take a childish cheap shot. Having done so, I've decided to give a more honest assessment of RadBikes, rather than being generous to a fault.

Don't troll first and then insist on civility later. It doesn't work out well.
 
formula101 said:
Also, as I said earlier (scroll up), I agreed to let bygones be bygones before Alan decided to take a childish cheap shot. Having done so, I've decided to give a more honest assessment of RadBikes, rather than being generous to a fault.

Don't troll first and then insist on civility later. It doesn't work out well.

Well I'm glad you learned a valuable lesson and respect that you have the character to admit it.

For your new thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/posting.php?mode=post&f=3

"a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
 
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