Recommendations for a rim

[E-HP]

I found these

https://wheelbuilder.com/sapim-e-strong-single-butted-12-13g-spoke/

And holy cow is that shit expensive!!! 36 spokes with nipples is $70?! How can that be?!

That's why you measure everything about ten times just to be sure.

 

[LewTwo]

I found these

https://wheelbuilder.com/sapim-e-strong-single-butted-12-13g-spoke/

And holy cow is that shit expensive!!! 36 spokes with nipples is $70?! How can that be?!

... and now you know one of the reasons I bought solid "mag" style rims for my current build. With the cost of a good rim, spokes, nipples, hub and the labor to build the wire spoke rim ... the mag rims turned out to be a bargain.

High quality wire spoke rims are more expensive and require regular maintenance but they are lighter and absorb some of the road shock. Also note that a "cheap" bare rim itself is "false" economy.

 

[ZeroEm]

Don't rush it. If you know what tire you will be using match the rim width to the tire. After you get a good rim measure it if dimensions are not provided double check before buying spokes. May need to get spokes cut to your dimensions.

Most are always shopping for a good rim. When we find one then they discontinue it and we are back to searching. Normaly you want a double wall with eyelets if you can find one.
Most like sapim strong. Have never heard of complaints. Get the butted it is thicker on the end where the head is. Get a 14g, it's 13g on the end.

by MarkJohnston » Aug 20 2022 5:13pm

Any rims recommended? Can you recommend spokes and lacing pattern?

 

[MarkJohnston]

Well now I guess I have to buy an industrial metric caliper to ensure I have the exact measurements, or buy spokes on ali express.

This is my first wheel build and I'll probably do it wrong anyways. It's going on a junker back up bike. I don't really feel like forking out $70 on spokes when the ali express ones work

Literally the ALI express ones are $15 for a pack of 37 steel ones. If anybody can convics me to buy the sapin ones you better have a good argument

 

[DogDipstick]

I buy from a guy called Yojimbos Garage. Spokes. He has a Phill Wood tool. Look him up online.

 

[Chalo]

I don't really feel like forking out $70 on spokes when the ali express ones work

Do they though? My experience with cheap Chinese spokes is that they rack up a few miles and then all start breaking in quick succession.

Here are the spoke brands you should be considering:

DT Swiss
Sapim
Pillar
Union/Marwi
Wheelsmith

...and that's about it. Any generic Chinese spokes you can get cheap on Aliexpress are overwhelmingly likely to be trouble in the long run.

Union/Marwi spokes sometimes sell under other names, like "Wheelmaster" from J&B Importers or "USA Brand" from Empire BMX. And I've gotten them for as little as $0.25 each, retail price. Even at $1 each (which is a common local bike shop price), quality spokes are a much better value than cheap generic spokes that break.

If you need a special length that must be cut to order, you're most likely going to pay more than you would for stock lengths.

 

[zerodish]

If you are going to use the lite or XL you could cross spoke it. Use the spoke holes farthest from the flange. This will increase the strength by about 7 percent. The brass ferrels allow you to pull the spokes tighter which also makes the wheel stronger.

 

[LewTwo]

... My experience with cheap Chinese spokes is that they rack up a few miles and then all start breaking in quick succession.

I have only broken spokes on one wheel in my entire life. I rode the bike full speed into a too deep pot hole (not intentionally). The front wheel collapsed. The spokes all bent or broke. The bike came to a sudden stop ... I did not.

For the record:
That was an early (30 years ago) Golden Motor rim with a 36 volt hub motor (and three lead-acid batteries in the triangle).

 

[ZeroEm]

Need to learn about spoke Calculator. Take a look Grin Spoke Calculator
This is how you know what you need?
If you are going to cheap on the spokes then get the motor laced.
Doing your own wheel mostly teaches you about how a wheel works. It does take some attention to detail. Offsets, cross patterns or no cross.

by MarkJohnston » Aug 25 2022 2:39pm

Well now I guess I have to buy an industrial metric caliper to ensure I have the exact measurements, or buy spokes on ali express.

This is my first wheel build and I'll probably do it wrong anyways. It's going on a junker back up bike. I don't really feel like forking out $70 on spokes when the ali express ones work

Literally the ALI express ones are $15 for a pack of 37 steel ones. If anybody can convics me to buy the sapin ones you better have a good argument

 

[Chalo]

... My experience with cheap Chinese spokes is that they rack up a few miles and then all start breaking in quick succession.

I have only broken spokes on one wheel in my entire life. I rode the bike full speed into a too deep pot hole (not intentionally). The front wheel collapsed. The spokes all bent or broke.

Spokes rarely break from overload, like yours did. Almost always they break from fatigue cracks promoted by inadequate stress relieving and/or flawed material. You do not have to overload a wheel for them to break in that way. Normal operating loads are enough.

Last week I repaired four pedicab wheels with 37 broken spokes among them. The rims weren't bent. Most of the broken spokes were 12ga. One of the wheels had 21 broken spokes (out of 48). No foreign object damage, no bashed up or tacoed rims-- just lots of fatigue cracking. The owner paid $200 to repair wheels that didn't need to have these problems, if only the spokes had been thinner and of good material quality. She even had the good sense to ask about relacing her wheels with thinner gauge spokes.

Correct build technique and keeping spokes tight can prevent spoke breakage, but only for spokes of high enough quality that they don't have internal flaws in the metal. That's why it's important to use spokes that are known to be reliable. There are plenty of Chinese manufacturers who will happily sell you "spoke-shaped objects" that might be cheap to buy, but are costly in the big picture.

 

[MarkJohnston]

""""That's why you measure everything about ten times just to be sure"""





How do I get the measurements? My hub motor is super wide and skinny. I can't even find an affordable 10 inch vernier caliper. I couldn't even get the flange to center measurement WITH ANY CALIPER. Can I just eyeball it with a tape measure?

 

[LewTwo]

How do I get the measurements? My hub motor is super wide and skinny. I can't even find an affordable 10 inch vernier caliper. I couldn't even get the flange to center measurement WITH ANY CALIPER. Can I just eyeball it with a tape measure?

Use a fiberglass cloth tape measure to measure the circumference of the flange.
Divide the circumference by Pi for the diameter.
Divide the diameter by two for the radius.
Measure the distance from the edge of the flange to the center of the spoke hole.
Subtract that distance from the radius if the flange.

P.S.
You should be able to get a fiberglass cloth tape at your local sewing shop for about $3.
Why fiberglass .... Those stretch less than cheap cloth tapes.
They will still stretch but you will not be able to determine the difference without some serious measurement tools.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Thanks lew , but this helps a 1000x more for me personally having this video

https://youtu.be/9I2n9rZPZlk

 

[MarkJohnston]

Ok also looks like buying high quality 13G or 14G spokes is better and cheaper then the 12G. And people use washers in the flange holes on the hub to keep the smaller spokes from coming out?

 

[E-HP]

Ok also looks like buying high quality 13G or 14G spokes is better and cheaper then the 12G. And people use washers in the flange holes on the hub to keep the smaller spokes from coming out?

The Strong 12 - 13 spokes are butted so the end with the spoke head is thicker so you won't need washers. The 13 - 14 might. If I were going to lace my wheel again, I think I'd go with the 13 - 14 instead.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Right, seems like the 13G and 14Gs are much cheaper too

 

[ZeroEm]

All of this may seem confusing. The trick is you want the spokes to stretch and act like a spring. If not tight they lose tension each rotation and the nipples start to back off and fatigue the heads. Big spokes need more tension than most rims can handle so bigger is not better. 14G spam are perfect unless your going to a heaver rim.

by MarkJohnston » Aug 26 2022 7:12pm

Right, seems like the 13G and 14Gs are much cheaper too

 

[MarkJohnston]

If you are going to use the lite or XL you could cross spoke it. Use the spoke holes farthest from the flange. This will increase the strength by about 7 percent. The brass ferrels allow you to pull the spokes tighter which also makes the wheel stronger.

I do plan on buying the rhino lite. It looks to be the cheapest. However I do not understand what your are talking about. I just plan on doing a simple 1 cross with the elbows OUT. This is my first build. I want to keep things simple

 

[MarkJohnston]

... My experience with cheap Chinese spokes is that they rack up a few miles and then all start breaking in quick succession.

I have only broken spokes on one wheel in my entire life. I rode the bike full speed into a too deep pot hole (not intentionally). The front wheel collapsed. The spokes all bent or broke. The bike came to a sudden stop ... I did not.

For the record:
That was an early (30 years ago) Golden Motor rim with a 36 volt hub motor (and three lead-acid batteries in the triangle).

Yeah I was braking spokes a lot on my front wheel with disc brake a while back. Whenever I had to pull an emergency stop from 30 MPH+ whenever a car pulled out in front of me all of a sudden. I guess the front wheel ain' t built right or the fork is flexy like spaghetti. But hey I can say I've gotten really good at changing out spokes lol. I carry three spare spokes with me at all times now. Knock on wood it's been a while since my last incident.

 

[zerodish]

Here is what I mean by cross spoking. The spokes form an X pattern instead of a V pattern when looked at from the front. https://www.precisiontandems.com/cat_pics/whshimano16.jpg

 

[MarkJohnston]

I just purchased and received the SUnlite Ringles XL. THEY HAVE NO MACHINED SIDEWALLS!!!! How much is this going to affect braking performance with my Vbrakes? I haul ass and it is going to get wet and rainy soon. This is my back up bike however.

To reiterate. I can't do disc on this frame, I need to rim brakes and these are shiny smooth polished surface rims. How do I even know if they are worn down to the point of replacement?

I can;t send these back unless I want to pay a lot in shipping.

 

[amberwolf]

Are they painted, or anodized?

If anodized, they should work fine.

If painted, it depends on the paint.

 

[LewTwo]

One might remove the surface treatment from the braking area of the rim with fine sandpaper.
Bare Aluminum will immediately form a very thin, hard oxide coating when exposed to air.

 

[Chalo]

I just purchased and received the SUnlite Ringles XL. THEY HAVE NO MACHINED SIDEWALLS!!!! How much is this going to affect braking performance with my Vbrakes? I

Not at all. Machined sidewalls aren't for your benefit-- they exist so the rim manufacturer doesn't have to do a good job lining up the rim joint. As long as the sidewalls aren't painted or powdercoated, you're better off if they aren't machined.

 

[MarkJohnston]

I just purchased and received the SUnlite Ringles XL. THEY HAVE NO MACHINED SIDEWALLS!!!! How much is this going to affect braking performance with my Vbrakes? I

Not at all. Machined sidewalls aren't for your benefit-- they exist so the rim manufacturer doesn't have to do a good job lining up the rim joint. As long as the sidewalls aren't painted or powdercoated, you're better off if they aren't machined.

There anodized or painted. It is a black sun ringle XL. BEST best is that the brake pads will wear off the paint sooner or later. As i mentioned " buyer pays return shipping". It's really difficult finding a good rim that checks ALL the boxes.