Slo Ride

[BiggKidd]

Started acquiring parts for a new build facetiously "dubbed" Slo Ride. I'm going to need a lot of info and help finding parts if you good folks would be willing to help.

The starting piece ordered yesterday is a tiny little German made motor smaller than a Mason jar that packs a punch! I also ordered a weld in 120mm BB shell and the 120mm BB.

What I am envisioning here is a large fat tire simi chopper build with a stretched frame. I want to build it rock solid with full suspension and a minimum of 7 pedal speeds more would be better. With a belt drive from the mid mount motor on the left and possibly a hub motor in the front. I want the pedals way out on the front of the frame with a low seating position that will let me be flat footed while sitting yet still have proper leg geometry for pedaling. The battery will likely be at minimum of 100AH and for longevity I'm leaning toward LifePO4 cells even though they are large and heavy. A 26x4 or wider rear tire with either a 29x2.25 or 26x3 up front and a good bit of rake on the forks but not to the point of being a full on chopper. Hydraulic disk brakes are a must.

Need some help finding sources for the forks and head tube. Along with a belt drive that can handle 25-30kw pullies and all. One major stumbling block is the motor will have to have a very small drive pulley. The motor is water cooled and there isn't much space for a larger pulley because the water cooling tubes come out very close to the shaft. The motor drive gearing needs to be around 11.5 or 12 to 1.

Also looking for 72V 300-500A water cooled controller options with a display and something that can work with a throttle as well as pedal assist and regen is a must have! It also needs to be programable and switchable between power settings. More than just low medium and high would be nice with PAS usable in all power settings. Needs provisions for lights etc. too.

This is not going to be an over night build as with the motor I have to buy pieces as I can afford them. The motor I just ordered cost as much as my 6 month old dual 1000w motor E-bike did delivered!

Thanks for any info and help you may be able to provide!

 

[bananu7]

25-30kw

pedal assist (...) is a must have

PAS usable in all power settings

This needs rethinking.

 

[SlowCo]

Indeed, some things don't seem to 'match'...
Hope you'll make this a build thread with photos.

 

[BiggKidd]

Indeed, some things don't seem to 'match'...
Hope you'll make this a build thread with photos.

Not sure any of it matches up. It's just another in a long list of my projects that starts off looking impossible. Yes I need to photo and video...

 

[BiggKidd]

This needs rethinking.

You are correct I misspoke the PAS needs to work up through legal bike speeds and a little past would be nice. Just because you have the ability to run 100mph doesn't mean you have to!

 

[gromike]

I always get a kick out of motorcycles with pedals. Like why?

 

[BiggKidd]

I always get a kick out of motorcycles with pedals. Like why?

To see if I can! Plus no tags or insurance etc.!

 

[SlowCo]

 

[bananu7]

To see if I can! Plus no tags or insurance etc.!

If you plan to ride a 25kW+ vehicle around people, you really, really should have insurance. And noone will insure a vehicle with no tag or registration.

 

[BiggKidd]

If you plan to ride a 25kW+ vehicle around people, you really, really should have insurance. And noone will insure a vehicle with no tag or registration.

Actually there are companies insuring E-bikes now.

I seldom ride around people or traffic. I live way way out in the sticks where the towns have one stoplight and it's over 25 miles to a walmart!

 

[BiggKidd]

LMAO
The first piece just came in, no it's not the motor. Still haven't even gotten tracking info on the motor so who knows when it'll ship. Good thing I'm not in a hurry. lol
What did come in is the old Kawasaki 454LTD rear hub & pulley assembly. Other than being heavy as heck it should be near perfect. It's just slightly less than 12" dia. It's likely considered a 12" and that is just about what I will need, I think. haha

 

[Chalo]

LMAO
The first piece just came in, no it's not the motor. Still haven't even gotten tracking info on the motor so who knows when it'll ship. Good thing I'm not in a hurry. lol
What did come in is the old Kawasaki 454LTD rear hub & pulley assembly. Other than being heavy as heck it should be near perfect. It's just slightly less than 12" dia. It's likely considered a 12" and that is just about what I will need, I think. haha

Drum or disc? I know I'd prefer a drum despite somewhat increased weight, though either would be overkill for your project.

 

[BiggKidd]

Drum but as you said to much for my build. I just wanted the ring / pulley I'll mount a new center in it. The motor I ordered is stupid high RPM! Which is why I needed such a large pulley. I still need a one inch or as close as I can get for the driver pulley and I need to figure out wheels too. I'm going to want MC tires at the speeds this will be capable of. Something about the size of the LTD wheel & tire would be good but I need bike hubs so I can run a cassette so it almost has to be spoke wheels. Any suggestions for strong rims & hub and good a rear tire for mostly street but must be able to handle mud as I live couple miles from the road... This thing will likely run around at 5-10% power 99% of the time but I want to be able to safely get the power to the ground when the itch hits!

 

[bananu7]

good a rear tire for mostly street but must be able to handle mud

This is a very hard requirement to satisfy. I think your best bet would be a 40-60 adventure tyre, such as Mitas Enduro Trail XT (old E-10). Anything with denser knobs or even a pad tyre will be hopeless in mud.

This thing will likely run around at 5-10% power 99% of the time but I want to be able to safely get the power to the ground when the itch hits!

Have you considered building two separate vehicles? Optimizing for 5% of total power use almost certainly won't give you satisfactory results as you will end up with an overbuilt construction that will feel heavy and boring most of the time.

 

[BiggKidd]

This is a very hard requirement to satisfy. I think your best bet would be a 40-60 adventure tyre, such as Mitas Enduro Trail XT (old E-10). Anything with denser knobs or even a pad tyre will be hopeless in mud.

Have you considered building two separate vehicles? Optimizing for 5% of total power use almost certainly won't give you satisfactory results as you will end up with an overbuilt construction that will feel heavy and boring most of the time.

Mitas Enduro Trail XT I think that's a bit more traction off road and less on road than I'm after, they might work without being to noisy or crazy vibrations. Something with tread more like the Heb Allscape tires should be enough. I'm not sure they would handle the top end though. This thing should go well in to the triple digits if the rider is crazy enough!

The bike should come out at a decent weight unless I actually use LifePO4 cells. Besides even at minimum power were still talking over 1,000W and it's going to have strong gearing. The final gear ratio should be around 11:1 or 12:1.

 

[bananu7]

Mitas Enduro Trail XT I think that's a bit more traction off road and less on road than I'm after, they might work without being to noisy or crazy vibrations. Something with tread more like the Heb Allscape tires should be enough. I'm not sure they would handle the top end though. This thing should go well in to the triple digits if the rider is crazy enough!

The bike should come out at a decent weight unless I actually use LifePO4 cells. Besides even at minimum power were still talking over 1,000W and it's going to have strong gearing. The final gear ratio should be around 11:1 or 12:1.

I very much doubt that eMTB fat tyres will have appropriate speed rating for triple digit speeds. Sounds very risky. There's also no chance they won't immediately pack up with sticky mud and turn into two perfectly round donuts.

If you think the XT is too "offroady" for you (which I don't, this tyre handles just fine on pavement as long as it's dry, but it's indeed noisy) there's a swath of options available for you. Even something like a narrow size TKC 80 could work - but again, if you actually do need the vehicle to handle mud and provide actual traction, then TKC 80 (or mitas equivalent Enduro Trail / Enduro Trail+) clog up very fast and become slippery. You need appropriate knob spacing for the tyre to be able to clean itself, and the dense ones optimized for street mileage just don't have it. All of those tyres can handle speeds of up to 140km/h, which should leave a reasonable safety margin.

 

[BiggKidd]

I very much doubt that eMTB fat tyres will have appropriate speed rating for triple digit speeds. Sounds very risky. There's also no chance they won't immediately pack up with sticky mud and turn into two perfectly round donuts.

If you think the XT is too "offroady" for you (which I don't, this tyre handles just fine on pavement as long as it's dry, but it's indeed noisy) there's a swath of options available for you. Even something like a narrow size TKC 80 could work - but again, if you actually do need the vehicle to handle mud and provide actual traction, then TKC 80 (or mitas equivalent Enduro Trail / Enduro Trail+) clog up very fast and become slippery. You need appropriate knob spacing for the tyre to be able to clean itself, and the dense ones optimized for street mileage just don't have it. All of those tyres can handle speeds of up to 140km/h, which should leave a reasonable safety margin.

I agree about any bicycle tires not handling 100+MPH speeds. If I have the gearing etc. figured correctly that is. Riding on street tread tires packed full of mud is nothing new but it is a little easier when the tires have some traction. Many many years ago a friend and I rode hundreds maybe even thousands of miles on mid powered street bikes with crap tires through mud, dust and every other thing you can imagine. So tires that don't fly apart at high speed are more important to me than the tread pattern as long as they ride smooth and quiet and aren't to heavy.

 

[bananu7]

I agree about any bicycle tires not handling 100+MPH speeds. If I have the gearing etc. figured correctly that is. Riding on street tread tires packed full of mud is nothing new but it is a little easier when the tires have some traction. Many many years ago a friend and I rode hundreds maybe even thousands of miles on mid powered street bikes with crap tires through mud, dust and every other thing you can imagine. So tires that don't fly apart at high speed are more important to me than the tread pattern as long as they ride smooth and quiet and aren't to heavy.

In my experience, soft-compound tyres like TKC 80 or Shinko 804/805 handle just fine on pavement under both heavy and lighter motorbikes. For a 25-30kW peak power and a 72V 100Ah battery, we're realistically looking at a 120-140kg machine, and the smallest size of TKC80 on offer is actually a quite narrow 3.25-18, with a load index of 59, and speed index S (180km/h, 112mph). This seems to check all your boxes and would be appropriate for a very lightweight machine.

Of course pedalling is pretty much out of question, as I've already mentioned. It's going to be a very much motorcycle-sized motorcycle, and there's no point whatsoever of putting human-powered drivetrain on it.

While you could go down with thread to a 30-70 tyre like TKC 70 or Shinko equivalent, I'd advise against that if you do indeed plan on riding in the mud. I have a set of TKC 70 as my "street set" and love them, but they really only work in dry conditions.