Strong freewheeling crankset

[full-throttle]

Nice find!

It's not clear if or how they solved the extra support bearing problem. In my opinion it's not possible using trials cranks and standard ISIS BB.

I have now the crank arms fitted to the spindle. That took a bit of effort.. Next step is to machine the bearing support sleeve.

 

[boostjuice]

FT, unless your wanting to fabricate a dual freewheel crank where you absolutely need a support bearing for the motor driven freewheel's inner, to save all this hassle It is my strong suggestion that you just dump the WI ENO freewheel and use a flanged ACS crossfire freewheel with dual angular contact bearings. Their level of quality and durability is up to the task even if they don't have sealed bearings and the nice finish of the ENO. The crossfires are a massive step up in tighter tolerances and finish quality over the old ACS claws line which were garbage.

 

[flyinmonkie]

I don't think it had a support bearing, and I found a price. The whole setup, bottom bracket, cranks, and freewheel set up including chain rings was $398 CHF (swiss francs). Comes out to $427 USD. That is more than the whole GNG kit. Looking closer, it just uses a DIcta freewheel and looks like no support bearing. The rest of the kit is nice parts though.

The ACS could be an option to skip the support bearing. That would save space on the crank.

f-t why can't you use trials cranks on an isis bottom bracket? They seem make a lot of isis trials cranks.

Clay

 

[skyungjae]

I don't think it had a support bearing, and I found a price. The whole setup, bottom bracket, cranks, and freewheel set up including chain rings was $398 CHF (swiss francs). Comes out to $427 USD. That is more than the whole GNG kit. Looking closer, it just uses a DIcta freewheel and looks like no support bearing. The rest of the kit is nice parts though.

The ACS could be an option to skip the support bearing. That would save space on the crank.

f-t why can't you use trials cranks on an isis bottom bracket? They seem make a lot of isis trials cranks.

Clay

I think the problem is finding a ISIS BB with a spindle length comparable to the GNG square taper. Also, the way the GNG BB mounts supports the motor bracket.

I was thinking this might work:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products...-down-hill-bottom-bracket-isis-drive-ec007792

One of them has a 128mm spindle length which might work... I have the one with 113 or 118mm one sitting in my garage. It looks like my old ISIS cranks would clear on the left side, but I'm too lazy and too poor do the guess and test.

 

[boostjuice]

I was thinking this might work:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products...-down-hill-bottom-bracket-isis-drive-ec007792

One of them has a 128mm spindle length which might work... I have the one with 113 or 118mm one sitting in my garage. It looks like my old ISIS cranks would clear on the left side, but I'm too lazy and too poor do the guess and test.

You're onto something here. I'm running a 100mm wide cup spacing x 148mm spindle ISIS BB on a bike with a BB shell width intended for a 83mm x 128mm BB. This will get you some extra spindle length while still leaving ample threaded cup section fastened into the BB Shell (headset spacers may be needed on the drive side depending on the spindle symmetry needed). I'm positive you can therefore successfully adapt a 83mm x 128mm BB onto a bike with a 68/73mm wide BB shell.

In my case though, I have reasons for wanting not just greater spindle length, but also a protruding LHS BB cup for mounting a 'jackshaft' of sorts for parallel drive. (the pawls are removed from LHS freewheel hence it is acting simply as a bearing carrier. The RHS sprocket freewheel isolation assembly is redundant but I already had it there from when it was a through the gears design so left it in place)

 

[dbaker]

FT,

How did you get the ISIS crank arms on the Howitzer BB? This looks like the strongest system unless Crossfire is strong enough with an ISIS BB.

 

[full-throttle]

FT, unless your wanting to fabricate a dual freewheel crank where you absolutely need a support bearing for the motor driven freewheel's inner, to save all this hassle It is my strong suggestion that you just dump the WI ENO freewheel and use a flanged ACS crossfire freewheel with dual angular contact bearings. Their level of quality and durability is up to the task even if they don't have sealed bearings and the nice finish of the ENO. The crossfires are a massive step up in tighter tolerances and finish quality over the old ACS claws line which were garbage.

Thanks. I've started this assuming ISIS and Truvativ HS are interchangeable, the spindle on HS is metric and ENO is perfectly concentric. Now that I learned all of those are not true your suggestion is prob better.

The biggest problem with ISIS BBs is the weak bearing design, lack of lockrings on the non-drive side (needed for GND) and limited space on the spindle for the freewheel/extra bearing support. If you're comfortable with no extra bearing support than this may not be such an issue. 83mm BB will allow for use of lockring.

How did you get the ISIS crank arms on the Howitzer BB?

Force crank arms on, remove, file off the excess, repeat. Butchery, but it worked

 

[boostjuice]

FT, for your interest/awareness:

http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co...._ID=7447&Item='Race Face ISIS Bottom Bracket'

 

[full-throttle]

Cheaper here :wink:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=33917

It does have the lockring, the other two problems I mentioned still exist. Will work with the Crossfire FW as you said. Q-factor is ~18mm less than with what I'm making. Could be either good or bad.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Could you use a BB with external bearings on both sides. The bearing races/cups would hold the motor bracket and they would be set lightly wider than normal due to the motor bracket sheets being between them and the frame. I'm just not sure the cups would be strong enough on their own the hold the motor bracket.

Then it would just be about having enough room on the spindle to allow for a support bearing and freewheel crank.

Clay

 

[skyungjae]

Could you use a BB with external bearings on both sides. The bearing races/cups would hold the motor bracket and they would be set lightly wider than normal due to the motor bracket sheets being between them and the frame. I'm just not sure the cups would be strong enough on their own the hold the motor bracket.

Then it would just be about having enough room on the spindle to allow for a support bearing and freewheel crank.

Clay

I don't think the GNG supplied support bearing/chainring adapter will fit on an ISIS spindle due to the larger diameter.

 

[panurge]

I've some pics of the two standards to share

-ISIS compared to howitzer
View attachment 2
-Howitzer arm splines

-A cheap but strong 148mm spindle, howitzer BB, good for 68 to 73E shells, there's enough room for plates, spindle protrusion is not that long......still need to force-broach trial ISIS arms in it, though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TruVativ-Howitzer-XR-Bottom-Bracket-68m-x-57-5m-Chainline-/360573846090?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f3e0424a
There's a 138mm version too.
Howitzer spindle+arm also supports well some small spacing between the arm's inner face and the cup if a bit of more q-factor is needed (1.5mm in my build)

 

[skyungjae]

I wonder how much rotational force it'll take to sheer off the crank splines if you force ISIS cranks on to the Howitzer BB. It was very easy for me to strip the threads on the GNG crank arms on my fat pig Stink-E.

Edit: Who am I kidding... I can't spend more money on this project.

 

[kfong]

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[Thud]

I found this an interesting:
Edit-wrong lint to article pasted...see below for corrected link.

Didn't realize the ISIS was defunct technology.....but I was a bit frustraighted looking for a proper bearing to fit an English BB & a 25mm shaft.......still catching up on the newest standards of bicycle parts....apparently I am nearing 1995 now :lol:

http://blog.artscyclery.com/industry/ask-a-mechanic-how-to-dial-in-shifting-the-rise-and-fall-of-isis-cranks/

 

[panurge]

....but I was a bit frustraighted looking for a proper bearing to fit an English BB & a 25mm shaft.......still catching up on the newest standards of bicycle parts....apparently I am nearing 1995 now :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

They are crazy....even external bearings are passed....perhaps with the last big shell strategy we are near the end, mechanically, but, sure, they will find every year a new standard to push (one for each brand of course )

 

[Tom Tom]

skf makes a very high quality isis and square taper bracket (10 year warranty). Probably too short for most.

http://www.mtbtandems.com/SKF.htm

http://www.compasscycle.com/bb_SKFBXC_isis.html

 

[flyinmonkie]

could be very good if it comes to production

http://www.trialinside.com/waw-presente-la-manivelle-as30/?lang=en

http://www.trialinside.com/video-presentation-de-la-manivelle-crewkerz-as30/?lang=en

Clay

 

[flyinmonkie]

Here's another one. Not sure there would be enough room on it, but could work with the flanged ACS crossfire freewheel, as it has a dual row bearing.

http://www.trialsaddict.com/special-offers/echo-isis-hd-bottom-bracket.html

Clay

 

[Miles]

A splined freewheel from stock.... Yay... Thanks flyin!

I like this sytem....

 

[Thud]

:lol:
Where have we see something like that?!!

 

[Miles]

Not to be compared with the awesome Thud production: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37640&p=548136&

But, nevertheless, interesting that somewhere in China they're making them........

 

[spinningmagnets]

Between Thud grinding splines into case-hardened ACS-Crossfire FWs, and Lukes dad broaching splines into White-Industry ENO FWs...ES is once again ahead of the curve. This is a good development!

edit: the provided link doesn't work for me, it goes to the proper website, but not that product.

Of note is their offering of a FW with a different spline pattern. It is specified as working on a BB, but I don't see a BB shaft with that pattern. They emphasise that this model is made as narrow as possible.

http://www.trialsaddict.com/freewheels/complete-freewheels/tensile-96-click-freewheel.html

 

[Thud]

If I am correct, that is the removal tool spline pattern on the tensil fw.

It's a standard thread on for trials cranks.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Thanks!