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Strong freewheeling crankset

As my project is a little related, I sketched a bit out that may be of interest. It's in the green box

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Bit of ghetto engineering that will allow a motor to drive the crank wheel, while the pedal axle is totally isolated. Perhaps you could add a couple of freewheels. One for pedal power to reach the crank, but for the pedals to not go round like a windmill. Another for the motor to drive the crank, but not the crank drive the motor. So really it's just a bracketing option, and I wanted to show you my mspaint designs lol
 
t0me said:
... found the bolts interfered. Also, I have a more downhill type frame, and again some interpretation and mods are required to get the plates (bottom set anyway) to work with that kind of frame. I expect Michael will be adapting the instructions to suit, and might be producing a bottom set specificially for DH type frames.


Can you post any photos of the changes you made. I have a set of Lightning Rods adjustable plates and I am considering fitting a cyclone crankset.
Thanks

DaveP
 
Its simply a case of moving the washers to the other side, but I also had to re-thread the longer bolts to allow me to tighten them down more than the original thread would let me. I did take lots of photo's but they won't really show you much, it will be come obvious when you start fitting it.

Start where I ended up and work from there - remove the smallest chainring from the set, and THEN try fitting the plates. It might all fit as per the original instructions if you start with removing that.

I'm waiting on some more parts and then (assuming the new mods all work out) I will post some pics of how I've ended up with mine.
 
tOme has a downhill bike frame with a pretty steep front downtube angle. The bottom of the downtube actually sticks out beyond the BB shell. It needs a completely different BB sheet with much longer arms to get the motor out in front instead of hanging down from the downtube. I did this quick rendering to show how the mount would need to be for downhill frames:

DownhillBB.jpg
 
I've done that mod too now :) will post up about it later when some other bits have arrived.

However the bolts hitting on the bottom sheets would have happened regardless I would have thought. It was because of how close the smallest chainring on the cyclone set was to the sheets/frame that meant that having the bolts come out on that side with the extra washers hit the small chainring. I stuck them through the other way and re-threaded the bolts a little so I didn't need to use the washers.

The change that was due to the frame being like it is, required not using the top bolt of the adjustable sheets, instead using a smaller bolt either side rather than a big single bolt all the way through.
I wasn't able to get the top sheets bolts tight enough that it didn't loosen the belt under load (and therefore skip and then stripped 2 belts). Tightened the bolts enough to strip the thread on one of them, but to no avail. I tried a few things to get them to lock the adjustment in place but all failed (LR - even that last attempt with the adjusting bolts!! which was very surprising) so now I'm trying something different... which I'll post up if successful.

My particular bike and situation is no reflection on the quality of Lightningrod's plates. They're excellent. They do work. Not to say they couldn't be improved and they will no doubt be developed over time to perfection. I'm sure Lightningrod would agree.
 
IMG_20130118_173945.jpg


The BB mount that came with the kit gave me the same problems on my Stinky. I used my old Blackspire chain idler wrapped in tube as a spacer so the motor wouldn't touch my frame. I recently added another layer of folded tube between the idler and the frame, and it works great as a dampener when I'm riding on rough surfaces. I thought about cutting up a urethane bushing for my car and using that, but I'm too lazy. :lol:

Another thing to note is that using that spacer rotated my motor down keeping the distance between my jackshaft freewheel and chainring the same.
 
t0me said:
Its simply a case of moving the washers to the other side, but I also had to re-thread the longer bolts to allow me to tighten them down more than the original thread would let me. I did take lots of photo's but they won't really show you much, it will be come obvious when you start fitting it.

Start where I ended up and work from there - remove the smallest chainring from the set, and THEN try fitting the plates. It might all fit as per the original instructions if you start with removing that.
.


I have fitted the adjustable sheets and realised the clearances with the crank rotating were a bit fine so I have also removed the "3 spacer washers" by cutting the threads a bit longer ( I also replaced the bolts with stainless steel ones to ensure that I can easily adjust them in future). I looked at your photos on photobucket and it appeared that the 140mm cyclone axle was slightly shorter than the GNG original. I could not find anyone who had fitted the cyclone BB with the adjustable sheets so I wanted to check that you had enough clearance with the cyclone and the adjustable sheets fitted.

Thanks Lightning Rods for your clarification, I have no problems fitting the sheets to the frame.

DaveP
 
t0me said:
Nice, I wish I'd got the 48 now too.
Is it a standard size that fits? If so does it have a name or style type? (so I can have a hunt on ebay for one).

I didn't think the 484832T would clear my swing arm. My Sick Bike Parts 48T was already so close, so I asked Paco from Cyclone if he could do the 484432T. He told me many people request that set up. I could have just gone with the 444432T since I didn't use his outer chain ring.
 
just spoke to paco and there all out of 140mm isis bb sets ,any one got any idears or alternatives I have already got the 153mm square end bb but want something stronger
 
dustyearlobe said:
just spoke to paco and there all out of 140mm isis bb sets ,any one got any idears or alternatives I have already got the 153mm square end bb but want something stronger

30 day lead time. He also stated that they are making a 148mm ISIS bottom bracket too.
 
Hello everyone, This is my first post here, and I want to begin by thanking all of you ... Lightening Rods, Spinning magnets, Christerjung, skyungjae, Justin (I watched about an hour of your lecture on hub motors and I didn't even own one at the time) anyone who shares that amount of knowledge and expect nothing in return is aces in my book. And so many more I can't think of all the names right this moment and for that I'm sorry. but so many of you have added so much to this forum, I always felt that when the time came to add something that I needed to start with a big, big "Thank You!" to everyone. Lightening rods is the man... if you have a gng kit and don't have his slides yet, you simply need to order them, unless of course you enjoy buying $7.00 belts frequently (polybelt.com) they work every bit as good as the gates belts, actually in my experience they have lasted longer, but I also got better at driving as time went on.

Second I'm a GNG gen 1 guy, I bought the kit when the original post on it was about 8 pages long, it was originally installed in its stock fashion on a Wally world mongoose XR-200. Heavy but it did the trick. I completely ate the bottom bracket threads within the first 400 miles... however that was more my fault than the bikes. After lock-tighting that sucker back in I put another 800 miles on the Goose before putting it on my new toy a Haro shift R-3, and it has been upgraded with both of lightning rods sliders and a 128 mm isis 4848 cyclone crank. It did take some playing with to get it to fit. And I'm pushing some limits with the amount of BB spacers I used but. as of last night It was mounted and just about perfect. WOW the difference a real bike makes is insane.

I saw some of you would like to see the setup with the slides. I don't have the pictures right now and keep in mind most of you should order the 140mm kit, I figure 12mm difference divided by 2 = 6mm on each side is the difference, as you will see if you keep reading my 128mm bb is shimmed 6mm, 4mm in the BB, and 2mm on the spindle. Tonight or tomorrow I will post some detailed pictures of what I've come up with using both the cyclone crank and lightening rod's slides.

Right now all I can do is give to some advice., with no pictures for you (think soup nazi) :D . As others have mentioned it is all about playing with the washers and bolts until you don't have any clearance issues. and fine clearances most likely will not work very long. For instance my crank came with the three chain rings, I removed the inner gear and all washers from the chain ring. this left me 2 4848 chain rings. Worked great and I could really fly on 48v while I peddled, but my chain just barely rubbed the swing arm. Now google the haro shift so you can see why. its rear swing arm is not a typical triangle.i replced the 48 tooth inner chain ring with the smaller ( I believe its a 34 tooth). Now my clearance issue was fixed but the chain mine was way off.

So I went to a LBS and the tech gave me... yes gave me 2*2mm BB shims..... THANK YOU Orange Cycle on Edgewater in Orlando, I will be back... anyways by putting the 4mm worth of shims, taking both spindle spacers that come with the crank, and putting them on the chain side, the chain line isn't perfect but it's really really close. More importantly my clearance is pretty good at the moment, we'll see what time does to it. My first ride with a proper tuning was last night. 11.4 miles of bliss :p . I'll post more soon, pics and all. I hoped that helps some body.

Somebody I was chatting with sid the cyclone cranksets don't hold up, I'm sure I'll find out but I was curious what you boys have heard, so far I love it, It makes gng's stock kit seem well primative.

Dear moderator/s I haven't read the rules and I'm not going to either... I'm an outlaw :twisted: ( does this forum have 1 percenter badges :D ).... so if I broke rules any sorry. I'm sure you'll let me know.... oh yeah thank you as well.
 
dmarcionette said:
Somebody I was chatting with sid the cyclone cranksets don't hold up, I'm sure I'll find out but I was curious what you boys have heard, so far I love it, It makes gng's stock kit seem well primative.

The weak link on the all the cyclone chain rings, regardless of it being ISIS or their standard square taper JIS, is that Dicta freewheel. Mine got incurably gritty after a few rides in the dirt. It was causing the chain ring to oscillate so badly that it would spit off the outer jackshaft chain powered or not. I'm sure it lasts much longer for general commuting and not so dusty off roading.

The White Industries ENO... definitely worth the extra $.

Why 128mm over 140mm?
 
skyungjae said:
dustyearlobe said:
just spoke to paco and there all out of 140mm isis bb sets ,any one got any idears or alternatives I have already got the 153mm square end bb but want something stronger

30 day lead time. He also stated that they are making a 148mm ISIS bottom bracket too.
yer luckly he got back with the same 30 day lead ,thought he was ganna say discontinued ,,,,,lucky,,,isis.jpg
uk delived ganna be around £135 that's quite a lot for your buck 8)
 
skyungjae said:
dmarcionette said:
Somebody I was chatting with sid the cyclone cranksets don't hold up, I'm sure I'll find out but I was curious what you boys have heard, so far I love it, It makes gng's stock kit seem well primative.

The weak link on the all the cyclone chain rings, regardless of it being ISIS or their standard square taper JIS, is that Dicta freewheel. Mine got incurably gritty after a few rides in the dirt. It was causing the chain ring to oscillate so badly that it would spit off the outer jackshaft chain powered or not. I'm sure it lasts much longer for general commuting and not so dusty off roading.

The White Industries ENO... definitely worth the extra $.

Why 128mm over 140mm?
ive have had mine almost 2yrs now started on single 1200w then on 2x 1200w the only thing I have done to it was remove one of the wafer thin spacers in side ,,feels a little tight but no side play and still going ,I have re greased a couple times weather this has helped its life span or not is debatable ,,,all I can say is im mostly off road riding and would have to thumbs up it ,maybe we should start a for or against thread,,,,,,
the only real problem ive had is with the motor freewheels unwinding ,,,bit of thread lock seems to have sorted that thou
 
Nicely engineered and fabricated FT! Big thumbs up! That should be a bulletproof setup.

.....Now if only Cyclone, Staton-Inc or SickBikeParts could start offering these parts for an economically feasable price through leveraging the economies of scale from a big CNC-automated batch run.
 
full-throttle said:
Finally had a couple of hours to work:
View attachment 2
View attachment 1

That looks like a smart retrofit. I can't see a problem with it, as long as the bearing is allowed to self-align before the five screws are tightened down.

I'm amused by the overkill chainring bolts and nuts. I've done similar things to mount chainrings at other times, when the stack thickness didn't correspond to a normal chainring bolt length.

I hope those rings are steel, because they have their work cut out for them.
 
skyungjae said:
Why 128mm over 140mm?


Bad decision , but mainly because I noticed that I could upgrade the BB fairly easy. I'm 250 lbs and have fairly powerful legs I seem to bend lots of stuff (axles, spindle , ect) I figured narrow may be stronger. I think I'm going to have to take the bottom slides off. I had it perfect, but it loosened up on the ride last night enough to rub when I peddled, I'm going to buy some new bolts and see where that takes me. I looked at eno freewheels but it's alot of coin. I think I'm going to tinker with this setup for a few days before I break down and order a 148 mm BB. I found one for about 32.00. And then there's always the truvativ gigapipe but its like 90.
 
dustyearlobe said:
ive have had mine almost 2yrs now started on single 1200w then on 2x 1200w the only thing I have done to it was remove one of the wafer thin spacers in side ,,feels a little tight but no side play and still going ,I have re greased a couple times weather this has helped its life span or not is debatable ,,,all I can say is im mostly off road riding and would have to thumbs up it ,maybe we should start a for or against thread,,,,,,
the only real problem ive had is with the motor freewheels unwinding ,,,bit of thread lock seems to have sorted that thou

Thanks for that info, I like your Idea of a thumbs up/ thumbs down list . Right now I'd have to say thumbs up right now but I'm barely at 100 miles on it.

Has anyone ever tried a small tack weld on the freewheels in order to keep them tight? I've pondered it but wasn't sure if It was a good or bad idea.
 
Great thread...lots of good information here on a promising concept.
Can anybody measure their Cyclone or GNG crankset and tell me what the center-to-center distance is between the last two chainrings (the driver and the driven sprocket)? Do you find that the spacing is sufficient for a front derailleur or chain guide?

Thanks in advance...
 
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