The first and BEST Qulbix Raptor mid-drive build!

[Sr.Agaporni]

That is a nice work, keep it upgrading the info and photos!

 

[ElectricGod]

That is a nice work, keep it upgrading the info and photos!

I assume you are going to use the same servo signal for both motor controllers, but even then not everything is the same. The motor controllers while being the same model, are still different in small ways such as variations in resistors, capacitors, clock signals, etc. How are you going to keep the two controllers in sync so they don't fight each other? Two motors on the same chain are going to be in lock step with each other. If one controller sees a pulse from a motor sooner than the other controller does for its corespondent motor, then there will times when the motors wont be pulling together. I'm thinking it will create a situation wher ecurrent draw will be higher than expected and the motors and controllers will heat up more.

 

[recumpence]

That is a nice work, keep it upgrading the info and photos!

I assume you are going to use the same servo signal for both motor controllers, but even then not everything is the same. The motor controllers while being the same model, are still different in small ways such as variations in resistors, capacitors, clock signals, etc. How are you going to keep the two controllers in sync so they don't fight each other? Two motors on the same chain are going to be in lock step with each other. If one controller sees a pulse from a motor sooner than the other controller does for its corespondent motor, then there will times when the motors wont be pulling together. I'm thinking it will create a situation wher ecurrent draw will be higher than expected and the motors and controllers will heat up more.

I've been running multiple motors for years now. No issues what so ever.

Matt

 

[izeman]

If one controller sees a pulse from a motor sooner than the other controller does for its corespondent motor, then there will times when the motors wont be pulling together. I'm thinking it will create a situation wher ecurrent draw will be higher than expected and the motors and controllers will heat up more.

you may think that. but interestingly it's not true. the challenge is the same with two ICE motors. you may think that you need complicated rpm sensing and ECU programming to synchronize the two. but simply letting them 'pull the same string' works. it even works if you install one motor in the front wheel and the other in the rear wheel. one motor will 'help' the other if they are not 100% the same, and at that time both are working at their same level.

 

[recumpence]

My fork arrived today. I was able to lay everything down on the floor to get a feel for the layout of the bike. I may, sometime in the future, build a longer swingarm for it to arrest the wheelie tendency. This bike is not a long layout like my Motoped, yet it is lighter and more powerful with a more centralized center of mass, whereas my Motoped was more forward weight biased. That is why I think this bike may end up being more wheelie prone.

So, I have been knocking around a few different names for the bike and I am leaning toward "Grizzly". The bike is meant to be in the woods, it is ferocious, powerful, and intimidating.

Anyway, I will post pics as I have them.

Matt

 

[ElectricGod]

My fork arrived today. I was able to lay everything down on the floor to get a feel for the layout of the bike. I may, sometime in the future, build a longer swingarm for it to arrest the wheelie tendency. This bike is not a long layout like my Motoped, yet it is lighter and more powerful with a more centralized center of mass, whereas my Motoped was more forward weight biased. That is why I think this bike may end up being more wheelie prone.

So, I have been knocking around a few different names for the bike and I am leaning toward "Grizzly". The bike is meant to be in the woods, it is ferocious, powerful, and intimidating.

Anyway, I will post pics as I have them.

Matt

Mongoose or wolverine

 

[ElectricGod]

If one controller sees a pulse from a motor sooner than the other controller does for its corespondent motor, then there will times when the motors wont be pulling together. I'm thinking it will create a situation wher ecurrent draw will be higher than expected and the motors and controllers will heat up more.

you may think that. but interestingly it's not true. the challenge is the same with two ICE motors. you may think that you need complicated rpm sensing and ECU programming to synchronize the two. but simply letting them 'pull the same string' works. it even works if you install one motor in the front wheel and the other in the rear wheel. one motor will 'help' the other if they are not 100% the same, and at that time both are working at their same level.

What if you use two different contollers? IE: One of them is an EV controller and the other is an R/C controller. My thought is R/C controllers don't tend to have stall protection or handle low RPM's particularly well so my thought was to use a kelly or lyen or something for one motor and a turnigy or whatever for the other motor. I don't do bikes, or pedaling so for my purposes I would need a controller that can deal with starting from a dead stop and not cog. So an EV controller would handle that issue and make sure that the R/C controller never dealt with a stalled state. Am I making this too complicated and really just having two 3220 motors on separate controllers is going to have so much torque, that being in a stalled state will be virtually impossible?

 

[recumpence]

I have started laying out the components and, I must say, I did not have any idea this would become such a high-end build. Nearly every component is among the highest quality available. This was not originally intended. My thanks to those who bought stuff from me in my used drive systems thread. These sales have gone a long way to the funding of this project. I am getting truly excited to see it come together.

Matt

 

[macribs]

Matt awesome build as always. Looking forward to see this bike completed. Yellow belly and black fork/swingarm/rims would look fantastic with the carbon fiber parts.

@electric god I think you are overthinking the dual motor setup. The 2 motors will sync just fine, and the motors are so powerful you can take off from standstill by throttle alone even riding up a hill. Don't complicate when you can simplify.

 

[recumpence]

Matt awesome build as always. Looking forward to see this bike completed. Yellow belly and black fork/swingarm/rims would look fantastic with the carbon fiber parts.

@electric god I think you are overthinking the dual motor setup. The 2 motors will sync just fine, and the motors are so powerful you can take off from standstill by throttle alone even riding up a hill. Don't complicate when you can simplify.

I agree on both counts. In fact, startup from a dead stop works very well with twin motors. It works so well, in fact, that my first ever twin motor project (a high powered KMX tadpole trike) would brake-torque. I would sit down, lock the front brake, and hit the throttle. The rear tire would immediately break loose and smoke. Very impressive for these motors/controllers that are known for not starting from a stop well.

I have the foot peg kit for my Raptor. I plan on ordering the moto seat too. That would allow the opportunity to test this beast as a pure dirtbike. For now, I am building it as a bicycle with pedals and a normal bicycle seat for street-legality.

I read your other post regarding the swing arm. I am leaning toward stretching it. I figured out an easy way to accurately lengthen it without a jig. I think 2 inches would be ideal. That would privide added stability, reduced wheelie tendency, and still retain a decent proportional look.

Matt

 

[recumpence]

Swing arm cutting has begun.

 

[Daim11]

Snap a few pics for those of us living vicariously through you!

 

[recumpence]

I have been taking pictures.

The swingarm is cut. Now I am clamping it together.

I should have it lengthened by tomorrow. I will post pictures soon.

Matt

 

[recumpence]

OK, here are some pictures. I threw in one picture of the chain tensioner. This is a good shot of it. It is bearing supported on the pivot and will have a lathed down skateboard wheel (same as the others) as the roller.

The swingarm stretch began with wideneing the dropout slots from the stock 10mm to 12mm for the 12mm axel required for this hub. This allowed me to thread a bolt through as a width guage. I then temporarily welded a pice of steel in place to prevent twisting or distortion of the swingarm. This steel brace will be cut off once the final welding is finished. The swingarm was marked with a Sharpie as a reference for cutting. I chose the cut location for numerouse reasons;

#1 It is far easier to lengthen one part rather than each side spearately.
#2 This section is very thick making it better for adding substancial bracing after stretching.
#3 This section is easier to added alighnment plates to in order to make sure the swingarm gets stretched properly and accurately in the absence of a proper jig.

Cutting was a pain and took 45 minutes. This is because it would not fit in my band saw. So, I had to use an abrasive wheel and cut it by hand. But, the inner walls were not accessible with the abrasive wheel. So, those I had to "Fudge" on the band saw while holding the swingarm freehand. It was a truly dangerous activity! But, it worked fine.

I am going with a 2 inch stretch. This will minimize any strange look. It will have a more aggressive look without looking weird.

I hope to have all finish welding done tomorrow.

Matt

 

[Daim11]

This is going to be a beautiful specimen of 2 wheeled electronic perfections!

 

[LightningRods]

Hey Matt,
Beautiful work as always. Sorry that I've been neglecting you. I subscribed but must have missed a notice because the E-S system stopped notifying me.
We've chatted a bit in PM about how different our approaches are to this project and how that's a good thing. The early stages of any new technology are always the most creative. Eventually when the industry matures it seems to be down to a few big players copying each other and making pretty much exactly the same product. Boring.
I agree with your decision to lengthen the swingarm. Wheelies are fun for someone who's never had a bike powerful enough to do a power wheelie. It's just like wheel spin in a car. Wheelies and burnouts are fun at first but become annoying when you can't control them under full power. Drag bikes and nitro hillclimb bikes both have long swingarms.
I'm jealous that you will have a completed bike. My drives are being built for a customer and so will ship off when completed. I need to write Ziva at Qulbix and get another Q76R rolling chassis for myself.
Keep up the great work! Hopefully I'll keep getting my notifications.
Mike

 

[recumpence]

Thanks for the kind words. Group hug?

I may be one of your hub customers. We shall see. I have been able to accomplish what I need by using my sprocket to disc brake adapter with the brake disc next to the sprocket. But, your hub is a more solid solution especially for these dirt bike type conversions.

I am back in town from my weekend vacation. So, I can get back to my build. I have a few minor things left to do to the frame before I can send it off to powder-coat. There is actually quite a bit of fabrication left to accomplish. But, much of that can be done while the frame is out being colored and some of it can be done after powder-coat is added.

I received my new rotors from Astro Flight while I was gone. So, I can begin my motor rebuilding. This bike will use a couple 6 turn Wye motors I have here at the shop from another application. I am installing new rotors (it is a long story as to why), and I am reterminating these motors to Delta for high RPM. 5 turn Delta or 3 turn Wye would be even higher RPM and higher power. But, only a small amount higher than these motors and a twin motor drive with those motors is way overpowered anyway. Hmm, I do have two 3 turn Wye motors in other bikes. I could take those out for this bike and install these 6 turn Deltas in those bikes..... It is a thought.

Anyway, the work remaining on the frame is cutting open the top just behind the head tube to install the high current on-off switch (mounted through a carbon fiber cover). Beyond that, I need to weld on a couple tabs and drill and install a few riv-nuts. Then it is off to powder-coat. Oh, one cool thing; the side panel mount holes in the frame are 5mm thread. So, I ordered a bunch of titanium Torx head brake rotor screws to mount the side covers with. They look really great against the carbon side panels and were innexpensive (for titanium screws) because of the popularity of using these on brake rotors.

Matt

 

[LightningRods]

That's why you get The Big Bucks!

 

[ElectricGod]

More pictures please!!!

 

[recumpence]

OK, more pictures (the swingarm is still in process of finishing. I will post pictures of that when it is done).

Here are pictures of the battery packs layed into the frame. This is not the final layout of the packs. This was merely an exercise to confirm that all 80ah will fit into the frame. You can see that the packs fit 3 wide perfectly into the with of the frame.

I also wanted to show you guys a couple cool tools. My frame would not accept the bottom bracket. So, I purchased a bottom bracket thread chasing set. This is AWESOME! It cleaned up the threads wonderfully. The other tool is my threaded insert tool. This tool installs threaded inserts just like a rivet gun. This frame has many threaded inserts installed. I love these things! Kind of funny that the threaded insert tool is an "Astro" insert tool. Kind of ironic. :wink:

I am getting really excited! The new rotors have shown up from Astro Flight. So, the motors will be rebuilt soon. The connectors, wiring, heat shrink, etc are all showing up now. The frame and various bits are almost ready to go off to powder-coat.

Matt

 

[LightningRods]

Nice thinking "inside the box" there, Chief.

 

[recumpence]

Nice thinking "inside the box" there, Chief.

 

[Daim11]

You are making really good use of that battery space Matt!

 

[ElectricGod]

Dayamm...thats a big tap tool!

Why did you get new rotors for the 3220's?

 

[recumpence]

Not alot to show other than a couple swingarm pictures. The stretched portion looks narrower than the original part of the swing arm. But, that is a bit of an optical illusion. I used a straght edge to make sure the welded in plates are on the same plane as the original steel. The stretch is two inches. I also added gussets to the shock mounts to add strength in that area.

Beyond that, I did alot of small detail work on the main frame section. Nothing decent to show. Just cutting, welding, adding threaded inserts, etc. All steel parts are ready to go in for powder-coat.

With the frame done, I have time to work on other projects, like this one https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=83869

Matt