Sunder
10 MW
Thanks - but you can't see whether there's a pin or a socket inside that half of the XT90 cable.
Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells
- Thread starter miuan
- Start date
DAND214
10 MW
Mine are the socket en at the battery.
Dan
Dan
Sunder said:
I had to figure this out with my EC3 connectors. It seems that battery connectors are both females when dealing with this type, similar to the EC3.
Just look at the parallel and series harnesses, they are always males for xt90. Then you can assume that the battery will be females. This is standard across how all batteries use xt90 connectors and all xt connectors.
here is a link to someone with a picture of their multistar battery.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=950303#p950303
Sunder
10 MW
Thanks guys.
I'm confident enough to make the harnesses. If I'm wrong, its only $10 and another few days to get the parts delivered.
If HK had premade harnesses in stock, I would have ordered them instead of making them. So even if I screw up, I could probably just order a premade set now.
I'm confident enough to make the harnesses. If I'm wrong, its only $10 and another few days to get the parts delivered.
If HK had premade harnesses in stock, I would have ordered them instead of making them. So even if I screw up, I could probably just order a premade set now.
KINNINVIEKID
1 kW
ALWAYS put female connectors on the battery side as it helps prevent accidental short circuits 
Sunder
10 MW
So just an update on these cells.
I built my harnesses - a serial harness and a parallel harness, both with XT90 on one side, and PP45 on the otherside (Well, PP30 for the charging harness, since I charge at 2a). Everyone was right, it's the male/pin side on the harness.
I do see a surprising amount of sag when I'm full throttle going up a 19% grade. More than when I had my 10ah 25C packs. Mathematically this makes sense if both packs were exaggerated by the same extent (Or both had the same generous measuring methodology). I haven't put on my Watt meter to get an exact measurement, but I know the drop is at least 4v at near full charge, as 46v is the difference between "Full" and "Half" on my battery indicator, and I see it flicker between the two going up the hill. A slight smoothing out of the hill or a slight easing off on the throttle pushes it back to full, so I don't think it's an unreasonable sag.
Controller pulls somewhere between 25 and 30A by the way (Blow 25A fuses easily, have only blown one 30A fuse after it was 18 months old, so it was probably losing its rating due to being held at its max so often), so we're talking about pushing on 2C.
Overall, I'm very happy with these cells. I only use about 3Ah per day, so my aim is to charge to 3.9v/cell and refrigerate them any time they're not in use to keep their life up. However, as I want to start riding to my mate's house 70km away, I'm thinking of even getting a second set, and a rapid bulk charger to refill at his end.
I built my harnesses - a serial harness and a parallel harness, both with XT90 on one side, and PP45 on the otherside (Well, PP30 for the charging harness, since I charge at 2a). Everyone was right, it's the male/pin side on the harness.
I do see a surprising amount of sag when I'm full throttle going up a 19% grade. More than when I had my 10ah 25C packs. Mathematically this makes sense if both packs were exaggerated by the same extent (Or both had the same generous measuring methodology). I haven't put on my Watt meter to get an exact measurement, but I know the drop is at least 4v at near full charge, as 46v is the difference between "Full" and "Half" on my battery indicator, and I see it flicker between the two going up the hill. A slight smoothing out of the hill or a slight easing off on the throttle pushes it back to full, so I don't think it's an unreasonable sag.
Controller pulls somewhere between 25 and 30A by the way (Blow 25A fuses easily, have only blown one 30A fuse after it was 18 months old, so it was probably losing its rating due to being held at its max so often), so we're talking about pushing on 2C.
Overall, I'm very happy with these cells. I only use about 3Ah per day, so my aim is to charge to 3.9v/cell and refrigerate them any time they're not in use to keep their life up. However, as I want to start riding to my mate's house 70km away, I'm thinking of even getting a second set, and a rapid bulk charger to refill at his end.
Alan B
100 GW
Thanks for the data icecube et al,
I'm planning to try an 18S 32AH (about 2.2 KWH) pack of the Multistars on my CroBorg. 2.5C should be good for 80A, and I rarely ever hit full current. They will fit under the hood with the big Sabvoton controller, so it will be an impressive pack setup for good range and reasonable performance.
I'm planning to try an 18S 32AH (about 2.2 KWH) pack of the Multistars on my CroBorg. 2.5C should be good for 80A, and I rarely ever hit full current. They will fit under the hood with the big Sabvoton controller, so it will be an impressive pack setup for good range and reasonable performance.
icecube57
10 MW
Not sure why you are doing 32AH the packs are the same size as the 8AH zippy but the multistar is 10AH so I guess you will be running 8AH multistars vs the 10AH.. You should be able to do a 40AH pack if you do the 10AHs...
Alan B
100 GW
The current pack is 18S4P 5AH Turnigy, the 8AH Multistar will fit, the 10AH won't fit. Just the way the frame space works out.
Alan B
100 GW
Are you making XT90 harnesses or pigtails?
icecube57
10 MW
I can make anything but my turnaround with Christmas approaching will suck. Im going to be OOO from the 22-27th. I could order materials and get it done by the weekend Just depends on if its a harness or a pigtail. My rate would be material cost and 15 an hour labor roughly for some pigtails so ... not sure where to go from there
Alan B
100 GW
Details to PM.
Sunder
10 MW
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know when the 2C "Double Downs" are coming out?
Not that I'm in the market for a new pack, but I am keen to see their energy density etc for future builds.
Not that I'm in the market for a new pack, but I am keen to see their energy density etc for future builds.
Sunder said:
Can these 2c double downs be used on an ebike? People are having a hard time using the 10c multistars because of the low C rating.
Are these 2c possible?
I guess you could add these to your current battery pack if it has enough C rating.
I don't know if it is a new technology or just like they said about the multistars, no reason to have a Dense battery for a high C rating if you're not going to use it. The multistars seem to be about the lowest C rating rating or least density lipo you can get away with
I think optimally you want just enough C rating for your amp usage, this way you keep battery weight and volume to a minimal.
Maybe you can mix both multistars and these double downs for best pack size.
Alan B
100 GW
Multistars for Christmas
What's green and red and weighs 11.5 kilograms?
A dozen Multistar 6S 8AH, and in perfect Christmas colors. They would look awesome under the tree, but I would not leave them there.
My order arrived and the packs all look good. There was some damage to the outer box, but fortunately it was not severe enough to reach the batteries. It is good that they didn't have to travel far (Washington to California), the box was double corrugated, but the batteries weren't double-boxed. The batteries were in their pink bubble bags as shown, and the unused flat thin battery boxes were tossed in on top.
The cell voltages were remarkably consistent, most were 3.92 and just a couple were 3.91 volts.
3.91-3.92 volts (all cells, all batteries, 13 ea 6S 8AH
146x64x50mm
0.96kg
What's green and red and weighs 11.5 kilograms?
A dozen Multistar 6S 8AH, and in perfect Christmas colors. They would look awesome under the tree, but I would not leave them there.
My order arrived and the packs all look good. There was some damage to the outer box, but fortunately it was not severe enough to reach the batteries. It is good that they didn't have to travel far (Washington to California), the box was double corrugated, but the batteries weren't double-boxed. The batteries were in their pink bubble bags as shown, and the unused flat thin battery boxes were tossed in on top.
The cell voltages were remarkably consistent, most were 3.92 and just a couple were 3.91 volts.
3.91-3.92 volts (all cells, all batteries, 13 ea 6S 8AH
146x64x50mm
0.96kg
Alan B
100 GW
18S4P is what I'm planning.
The Sabvoton won't go to 24S so that's not an option. Four parallel gives 32AH times 2.5 gives 80A max which is what I've set the Sabvoton to.
The Sabvoton won't go to 24S so that's not an option. Four parallel gives 32AH times 2.5 gives 80A max which is what I've set the Sabvoton to.
Sunder
10 MW
Offroader said:
Emotorcycle? No. Ebike? I'd say so as long as you have enough spare capacity.
If you need a 35A draw, have 60ah+ of battery and I'd guess the dagging wouldn't be much worse than a 10ah 10c pack.
Or as you said, maybe get a booster pack - maybe even a tiny 3ah turnigy nano at 100c.
teslanv
1 MW
Alan B said:
I believe the SSC096150 model will go up to 120V max.
Max Battery current: 150A, Max Phase Current 300A.
http://www.sabvoton.com/product/sab...ve-brushless-motor-controller.html#.VJbwTsBsQ
Alan B
100 GW
I don't have the high voltage Sabvoton, not sure if it is even real yet.
18S is doing a good job on my bike. Going to 24S makes it difficult in so many ways, many parts are not rated for more than 80V so it really reduces the range of components available for things like DC-DC converters. The only reason to go up in voltage is to increase speed, but 18S produces more than adequate speed and power for a bicycle. The physical configuration of the batteries in the frame makes 4P very easy to wire up, using 3P would make some complications, each group of batteries would have to be part of two different parallel blocks. This is error prone and harder to get right, and it would take more copper and be higher resistance due to longer runs. Grouping and wiring in blocks of 4 makes for very simple and convenient wiring, keeping it short and very low resistance. These Multistar packs need paralleling to deliver much current within their practical limit of 2.5C, so reducing the parallel units would reduce the current available.
18S is doing a good job on my bike. Going to 24S makes it difficult in so many ways, many parts are not rated for more than 80V so it really reduces the range of components available for things like DC-DC converters. The only reason to go up in voltage is to increase speed, but 18S produces more than adequate speed and power for a bicycle. The physical configuration of the batteries in the frame makes 4P very easy to wire up, using 3P would make some complications, each group of batteries would have to be part of two different parallel blocks. This is error prone and harder to get right, and it would take more copper and be higher resistance due to longer runs. Grouping and wiring in blocks of 4 makes for very simple and convenient wiring, keeping it short and very low resistance. These Multistar packs need paralleling to deliver much current within their practical limit of 2.5C, so reducing the parallel units would reduce the current available.
Alan B
100 GW
The Sabvoton has the same feature, it is called "field weakening". I haven't tried it on the street, in testing it raised the speed considerably.
hydro-one
10 kW
"Going to 24S makes it difficult in so many ways,"- keep telling yourself that Alan. :wink: :wink:
im just messin with ya, but seriously my kbl96251 can handle 120v top of charge (28s?) and its already available. (I like the growl of high voltage trapoziods)....
mike, 28s lipo cromo17" kelly kbl
Alan I love reading your posts AND ALL YOUR TESTING!!
PS a simple dc/dc use a simple 120v ac/dc switching power supply, will work over 75vdc
im just messin with ya, but seriously my kbl96251 can handle 120v top of charge (28s?) and its already available. (I like the growl of high voltage trapoziods)....
mike, 28s lipo cromo17" kelly kbl
Alan I love reading your posts AND ALL YOUR TESTING!!
PS a simple dc/dc use a simple 120v ac/dc switching power supply, will work over 75vdc
Alan B
100 GW
You are right, there are solutions for the higher voltage, but my existing equipment wouldn't make the cut, so it would be a major re-build for me.
I did seriously consider and even plan to go to 24S and even purchased batteries and controller for it, but didn't end up doing that for many reasons. I was mostly doing it for an easier route to capacity than for higher speed, but changing to the Sabvoton limits the voltage I can use, and the investment in that controller is considerable. The appearance of these Multistar batteries, and the realization that one model will fit in a compatible way with my setup leads to this project to enhance energy storage in this bike. 32 Amp Hours at 18S is a lot of energy storage for a bicycle.
But this is the Multistar thread so probably should stick to topic. In that department I did receive my first order of XT90 raw connectors, but the order of pigtails hasn't arrived. I have some other priority projects right now so I'm not yet embarking on building the Multistar pack for the CroBorg. It looks like I may have some riding weather this week and then the holiday. We have time off from Christmas to New Years as the lab shuts down, so I might get a block of time to re-do that pack.
I did seriously consider and even plan to go to 24S and even purchased batteries and controller for it, but didn't end up doing that for many reasons. I was mostly doing it for an easier route to capacity than for higher speed, but changing to the Sabvoton limits the voltage I can use, and the investment in that controller is considerable. The appearance of these Multistar batteries, and the realization that one model will fit in a compatible way with my setup leads to this project to enhance energy storage in this bike. 32 Amp Hours at 18S is a lot of energy storage for a bicycle.
But this is the Multistar thread so probably should stick to topic. In that department I did receive my first order of XT90 raw connectors, but the order of pigtails hasn't arrived. I have some other priority projects right now so I'm not yet embarking on building the Multistar pack for the CroBorg. It looks like I may have some riding weather this week and then the holiday. We have time off from Christmas to New Years as the lab shuts down, so I might get a block of time to re-do that pack.
