Upgrading a electric moped reuse battery

[Arbitur]

I'm planning on upgrading my 1200-1800W 60V electric moped which is restricted to 45kph to be able to reach 70kph and get some better performance in hills by upgrading to 3000W.
I'm hoping to be able to keep my battery which is a 60V 20Ah Li-ion 17 cell battery.

My question is if there is a software lock between the original controller (which I'm going to have to replace) and the battery preventing the battery from discharging? I heard from a guy there is communication over CAN-BUS but I'm looking for more answers and possible solutions.

The moped is from China but from a swedish vendor, Vässla 2.

Any help will be highly appreciated.

 

[glennb]

Sorry, I know nothing about that bike, just going to point out the obvious, that if the battery’s BMS requires communication from the controller then you can swap out the BMS for a new one. Pain in the arse, but for the type of power increase you’re suggesting you’d probably need to in any case, because the supplied BMS is highly unlikely to be capable of 50A.

Before embarking on this project, be sure to also verify that the battery can safely supply the 50A that you desire. There’s plenty of discussions on this subject, on this forum.

 

[Arbitur]

@glennb Thank you for your comment. What are the keywords I should use to find these discussions?

 

[E-HP]

I'm planning on upgrading my 1200-1800W 60V electric moped which is restricted to 45kph to be able to reach 70kph and get some better performance in hills by upgrading to 3000W.
I'm hoping to be able to keep my battery which is a 60V 20A Li-ion 16 cell battery.

Check your math. 60v x 20A = 1200W. Not enough battery to supply 3000W

 

[Arbitur]

Check your math. 60v x 20A = 1200W. Not enough battery to supply 3000W

Surely any Li-ion cell can output more than 2.5C? I have more knowledge of LiPo batteries for RC vehicles and 2.5C sounds to me very low. What is common for EV Li-ion batteries?

 

[E-HP]

Surely any Li-ion cell can output more than 2.5C?

You didn’t state your battery capacity, only the current discharge rating of 20A. Are you saying you battery is 8Ah?

 

[Arbitur]

You didn’t state your battery capacity, only the current discharge rating of 20A. Are you saying you battery is 8Ah?

My bad, Its 20Ah

 

[E-HP]

What is the unloaded speed (wheel off the ground)? My guess is you’ll either need to up the voltage or get a faster wind motor, or both, to reach your speed goal.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Surely any Li-ion cell can output more than 2.5C? I have more knowledge of LiPo batteries for RC vehicles and 2.5C sounds to me very low. What is common for EV Li-ion batteries?

Lots of different Li-ion cells out there, lots of different chemistries. No, there are plenty of cells that are only able to supply 1C or less. LiPo for RC is indeed known for high discharge rates, at the expense of low cycle life and sometimes low capacity, as well as a physically weak structure that usually requires compression.

Do you know exactly what cells are in your pack? Because it possible can supply 3000w, but you'll want to know for sure before you test it.

 

[Arbitur]

Lots of different Li-ion cells out there, lots of different chemistries. No, there are plenty of cells that are only able to supply 1C or less. LiPo for RC is indeed known for high discharge rates, at the expense of low cycle life and sometimes low capacity, as well as a physically weak structure that usually requires compression.

Do you know exactly what cells are in your pack? Because it possible can supply 3000w, but you'll want to know for sure before you test it.

Ok great to know that 1C discharge is a thing. I tried finding out the exact cells by opening the casing but the cells are soaked in shock absorbing material so I was unable.
I watched a video of a battery repairman open another battery of the same model as mine and those were of this type Samsung 18650 29E high drain power cell.

Perhaps I could reduce my upgrade to swap the controller to get rid of the 45kph limit and be able to reach a bit more speed on level terrain but that wouldnt be possible if there is unlocking communication between the current controller and the battery.

What is the unloaded speed (wheel off the ground)? My guess is you’ll either need to up the voltage or get a faster wind motor, or both, to reach your speed goal.

Unloaded speed is the same going full speed on level terrain leading me to believe its the controller cutting power to stay within regulations of 45kph max.

 

[Zambam]

Is this your bike? Vässla Scooter | Sweden's best-selling electric moped

 

[Arbitur]

Is this your bike? Vässla Scooter | Sweden's best-selling electric moped

Yes, this one specifically Vässla Scooter

 

[Zambam]

Check this e-scooter thread out to get some ideas My Chinese E-Scooter

He has upgraded motor and battery and just about everything else.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Ok great to know that 1C discharge is a thing. I tried finding out the exact cells by opening the casing but the cells are soaked in shock absorbing material so I was unable.
I watched a video of a battery repairman open another battery of the same model as mine and those were of this type Samsung 18650 29E high drain power cell.

Perhaps I could reduce my upgrade to swap the controller to get rid of the 45kph limit and be able to reach a bit more speed on level terrain but that wouldnt be possible if there is unlocking communication between the current controller and the battery.


Unloaded speed is the same going full speed on level terrain leading me to believe its the controller cutting power to stay within regulations of 45kph max.

If they actually are 29e cells:

Test of Samsung INR18650-29E 2900mAh (Blue)

Then yeah, you're limited to 1C continuous, 3C for a few seconds.

 

[Arbitur]

If they actually are 29e cells:

Test of Samsung INR18650-29E 2900mAh (Blue)

Then yeah, you're limited to 1C continuous, 3C for a few seconds.

Thank you. It seems likely I cannot use my battery which would mean I would have to upgrade all components.