Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

[BareKuda]

It only works if i lie to the controller…lol

This second video shows unrestricted speed up to 1500 (HDC 1500) but only 300 Flux Weakening, which didn't get it over the hump. I had it on the flux page. Later videos i went back to rpm, volts, amps.

[youtube] https://youtu.be/yPBnMd75QLk[/youtube]

 

[BareKuda]

Honest officer, its 17 pole pairs.

This videa shows the HDC rpm limits the max RPM, but the only way to go above the base RPM is to add flux weakening in addition to raising the HDC rpm.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/RK_-ALTKOGY[/youtube]

 

[Sattva Ram]

If I enable HDC the controller doesnt work at all.

My tachometer is off. I could never read more than 650Rpm even when it spins a lot faster.

Your amp meter seems off tho.

26PP seems too high. Did you purosely give a higher PP value for the test?

 

[BareKuda]

Cruise control settings and ports.

Ok, i got cruise control to work on 4 ports but it will also work on otjers im using for Low gear and High gear.
Of course you need to check the cruise box on page 3 of the program.

Next find one of the ports you aren't using such as Sport Mode, reverse, park, low brake. There are others but i didnt map them out.

If you are still using standard wire harness then its easy to find the wire color, or you can trace to the pin.

Once you figure out which unused wire you want to use, lets say the Brown Park wire for example. Check the map and see which port it is.

We can see BROWN is associated with pin 4, and the port is PC15.

Go to port PC15 in settings and selected either:
15:cruise_butten (this needs to keep grounded to keep cruise on)
26:cruise_with_la (this only needs momentary contract to ground to hold cruise, then you can get out by applying brake or any other input that changes speed)
Save changes to the controller.

Then finally wire pin the BROWN wire to a switch that connects to ground. For me the most intuition is a momentary button you press and release and then release the throttle and it holds the speed.

The green checked boxes are the ones I verified on my controller. All these pull a 3v signal to 0v. I would avoid messing with anything that sends a high voltage in (like high brake) or a variable output (like speed signal).

 

[Sattva Ram]

Woow much obliged...You're the man.

I'd only have to figure how to activate regen with hi brake...This slide regen is dangerous...

 

[BareKuda]

If I enable HDC the controller doesnt work at all.

My tachometer is off. I could never read more than 650Rpm even when it spins a lot faster.

Your amp meter seems off tho.

26PP seems too high. Did you purosely give a higher PP value for the test?

26 pole pairs is actually very normal for a hub motor of this size and power. Even QS motors have many with 26-28 pole pairs.

I personally tested tested for pole pairs and posted the precedire here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=113988&p=1687292#p1687292

I got the idea from someone trying to sell a magic box with switches that did the same thing. Lol

This will also work on your hub motor and your middrive.

 

[BareKuda]

Woow much obliged...You're the man.

I'd only have to figure how to activate regen with hi brake...This slide regen is dangerous...

What is the “slide” thing you keep talking about? I don't have any slide thing. Can you show a picture?

 

[Sattva Ram]

Slide regen is throttle release regen. There's a video on YT as to how to activate. Basically one "pedal" driving...the problem with it is that it can burn the controller if fully charged. I'd like hi brake to activate the regen so I have full control over regen...

 

[Sattva Ram]

Do you know how many fets the em30 has? I'm thinking of giving it 45Amps. I tuned the neighbours moped but it's waay too slow even at 72volts. Currently it has a shitty greentime controller but with this votol I could give it some more speed without having to change the battery pack. Right now only 50kmph fully charged...I'm looking for 60 kmph...

 

[BareKuda]

Woow much obliged...You're the man.

I'd only have to figure how to activate regen with hi brake...This slide regen is dangerous...

I think if i saw your wiring diagram and setup the problem would show up fast. Lol.

I installed my controller and first just connected the bare minimum needed for it to run: Battery +/-, phase wires, hall wires, ignition and throttle. That required no port changes.

Then i hooked the xontroller up and set the voltage to 60v battery. Pole pairs were already 26 from the seller.

After swapped phase and hall wires to get it running smoothly forward, that is when i added my “extra” features, most of which i needed to set the ports for.

First i connected high brake to the purple wire. Tested it.
Next i set the ports for low speed and high speed switch, and connected thise two wires, and tested it,

At this point my bike display showed gear change 1-2-3, the controller program display showed L, M, H but no speed change. Later i learned HDC mist be checked or those three speed boxes dont work.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Okay I'm not at home. I send you my config later...But do you have high brake activated regen?

 

[BareKuda]

Slide regen is throttle release regen. There's a video on YT as to how to activate. Basically one "pedal" driving...the problem with it is that it can burn the controller if fully charged. I'd like hi brake to activate the regen so I have full control over regen...

Ok, mine was doing that in the beginning based on the HDC rpm, but when I set the RPM to my top desored RPM (about 650), its not noticed because it last a second until motor speed drops.

I saw that video in 144p i can barely see what hes doing.

Every picture ive seen of your controller settings shows you ising a very low rpm, so you will get regen when you release rhe theottle and you wont get high rpm, unless you mess with the feedback loop and tell the controller “nah man, its 17 pole pairs”. Lol

There are a lot of things tied to the HDC that don't make much sense but when its all got the right numbers it will work. But almost everyone video or comment ive seen is confising hall shift with hall phase angle, and that sends them down the wrong road.

With phase ans hall wire colors matching, i need both swap checkboxs checked and 60 degrees hall shift, not -60. Did try going up and down in 30 degree increase but at 120 it was growling at me and at 0 it was growling or barely turning, so i feel 60 must be in the window where rhe controller can can pick it up from there.

You said your needed 120 with your current phase and hall combination. Pole pairs wont affect that shift but it might make the program do something wacky and make a strange noise that gets attributed to hall shift.

If you can get it to run smoothly forward with 5 pole pairs and what hall shift is needed. You can get it to run 2500+ real rpm.

 

[BareKuda]

Okay I'm not at home. I send you my config later...But do you have high brake activated regen?

Yes, my full battery voltage goes to the purple wire when i squeeze either brake level. And i left the “low brake” box unchecked. My high brake is port PB5.

I have no other port assigned to brake or interrupt motor.

I have regen at 25%.

And i noticed it doesnt regen if my voltage is already very high so make sure you have room for the current to go in.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Okay i get to it tomorrow. It'd be nice to have hibrake regen...

 

[BareKuda]

Okay i get to it tomorrow. It'd be nice to have hibrake regen...

For modern basic scooters, high brake is much more practice than low brake, at least in the common 48v/60v range. Most LED headlight, turn signal and taillight will work with 60V systems. So high brake i just pull power off the front bus after the ignition key, send it in parallel to my brake sensors, then rejoin and back to my brake light and high brake signal.

If i had low brake, i can pull that to 0v easy but making that also send power to my brake light means the controllers must do it or you need an inverting relay that sends power to the brake light when it sees 0v input and tirn off when it sees 3-5v, and not pull so much of the 5v current that it drags it to 0. Lol

After looking at cruise, and seeing that long list of possible features, theres a lot more to learn. You notice none of the public manuals even tell you what those are and how to use them.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Coool! I have hi brake regen and cruise as well. (I think the hibrake didnt work cause the low brake box was ticked...what a bummer...)

 

[BareKuda]

Coool! I have hi brake regen and cruise as well. (I think the hibrake didnt work cause the low brake box was ticked...what a bummer...)

Which motor? The hub or mid-drive?

Can you send the latest configuration file you used go get regen and cruise?

 

[BareKuda]

Coool! I have hi brake regen and cruise as well. (I think the hibrake didnt work cause the low brake box was ticked...what a bummer...)

I did more testing on regen and if your max voltage is set lower than current voltage the motor wont start, and if your battery voltage climbs to max voltage regen wont regen.

For 60v gel cell this is simple:
Max voltage 75v
Low voltage 55v
Soft low voltage 60v.

Absorption charge 73.5v
Float charge 69.0v

But for a basic protected lithium ion battery pack, which is top balanced with bleed resistors and shuts off incoming current when full, you cant set set regen for a trouble-free system. If you fully charge the battery the motor wont start, before you cant set max voltage higher than the BMS max or it will have a big problem.

You need active balancing, a charger that stops charging at 90%, not a BMS that blocks current at 90%, and set the max voltage in the controller to 95%.

Heres a test of regen when my charger was putting out 73.5v. I start the test with max voltage set at 80 volta, hold full throttle and apply front brake. The motor slows fast due to regen. Then i set it for 75v and repeat full throttle, apply front brake and it only cuts the motor, no significantly regen.

Lead acid definitely works with this controller wothout jumping through hoops.

 

[Sattva Ram]

So if you set the overvoltage too close to the battery voltage it wont regen?

I only tried it with default OVP 89volts if I remember correctly. At 83volts the regen worked well.

But why is it a problem? Maybe I should set an OVP that it will only start regen at 83volts...It'd be great if you could set the regen starting voltage with the OVP...

I cant send the config file now too much hassle. I set the brown white to low brake and the grey black to cruise....Everything seems to work perfectly...

Maybe I do some regen tests...I build a sloppy 84v pack to see...

 

[Sattva Ram]

Tested it the OVP has to be 5 volts higher than the pack voltage. Otherwise no regen. Also if it's too close then the motor doesnt stop spinning it just gets stuck on a few hundred rpm Only by disconnecting the battery wire can it be shut down. It's no coincidence that the default value is 89 volts for 72volts...

 

[BareKuda]

Tested it the OVP has to be 5 volts higher than the pack voltage. Otherwise no regen. Also if it's too close then the motor doesnt stop spinning it just gets stuck on a few hundred rpm Only by disconnecting the battery wire can it be shut down. It's no coincidence that the default value is 89 volts for 72volts...

My motor would not start when i set over volume below battery voltage, but i use correct pole pairs so maybe thats why, lol.

5v below Overvotage seems good. I saw a discussion about it earlier in this thread but somehow they came to the conclusions that overvoltage setting has nothing to do with regen.

I dont have low brake or side stand so i left all those as empty function.

Now my only thing left is to transfer my anti-theft over to the Votol. It looks like a direct plug in. But i need to trace some wires and check some voltages.

Not quite as hard as saving a config file and posting it here, thats 3 seconds of intense labor. Lol

 

[Sattva Ram]

I also use correct pole pairs...

At 84.5v battery voltage when I set 85 OVP the wheel was spinning and didnt stop. Nothing could stop it only disconnecting the battery wires. It's clear that if the OVP is too close to the battery voltage the controller goes haywire.

Anyway I am happy with this controller now. Everything I wanted works.

Thanks for all the help! It was very invaluable...

 

[BareKuda]

Hey!
What's settings must be here?
1) For maximum TORQUE POWER from ZERO RPM (VOTOL EM-150SP)
2) For normal DEFAULT TORQUE?
Cheers.

This section is suppose to be for EV that is not direct drive, and has some gearlash or chain play that you want to take up slack on before sending max torque.

Starting torque is before slack is taken out of the drivetrain,
Combinative torque is after all slack is taken up in the drive train. (0-350)
Rate of rise is how fast torque can increase. (10-250)
Rate of decline is how fast the torque decreases. (10-200)

So if you ever saw a new driver learning to drive a manual transmission and saw it bucking like a Bronco, that is what this section is designed to tune out of a electric tricycle or anything with gears and axles that can wind up or have play.

But to your specific question, “what EXACTLY does each field do and what is the allowable range?”, that’s something many want to know, even on a hub motor ebike, so they can get the torque from zero up to where they want it without it being uncontrollable.

Oj my case i have an average height sidewalk curb that i need to climb to get to my parking spot. But it doesn’t want to climb it without a running start. I unchecked the “soft start” box and the behavior seems more predictable, but i only have a 500w motor.

I have played with the settings in this section a little but since my batteries are going bad and i have a new set on order, I’ll continue testing with new batteries so i know i have the volts and amp available.

Like you, I’m asking “why did you make a box if its always goung to be zero??!!!” Lol.

Ill play with it some and see if any adjustments helps get maximum torque at 0 rpm.

One thing to be careful of is allowed “locked rotor” current to go too high for too long, and if the motor cant spin to reach the next commutations point the 2 phases getting all the current will fry.

 

[Carbon2011]

Hello everyone from Russia. I apologize for my crooked English, this is a translator. Became the proud owner of the votol em150sp kit and qs138 90h 4000w. I connected everything, removed the parking restriction, connected the throttle stick. Then I connected my laptop to the controller and adjusted the throttle thresholds which I measured in advance with a multimeter. The problem is as follows, when the engine reaches 4800 rpm, it itself sharply raises the rpm to about 6000 and does not reset them even when the throttle stick is released, only turning off the ignition helps. Can anyone come across such a problem and be able to suggest?

 

[BareKuda]

Hello everyone from Russia. I apologize for my crooked English, this is a translator. Became the proud owner of the votol em150sp kit and qs138 90h 4000w. I connected everything, removed the parking restriction, connected the throttle stick. Then I connected my laptop to the controller and adjusted the throttle thresholds which I measured in advance with a multimeter. The problem is as follows, when the engine reaches 4800 rpm, it itself sharply raises the rpm to about 6000 and does not reset them even when the throttle stick is released, only turning off the ignition helps. Can anyone come across such a problem and be able to suggest?

If you attach your config file we can look for settings that might be wrong.