WSJ Article on Evehicles in Texas.

Mercy me boyz - All this flamin' just because someone bought two EV's in Texas.

Now, just run along and troll on another forum. No one is buying this propaganda your spewing anyway.
 

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Exactly what are you waiting for an apology for EMF? I stated a simple fact. Wishing harm on others is wrong. Wouldn't you agree that's true? Are you saying you want the the price of gas to go up or not? If you want it to go up, I believe this will cause harm to others and wishing such a thing is wrong. If you do not then we are in agreement that lower gas prices are good for everyone (including the e-bike community). As the oil markte bubble continues to burst we will start to see the prices of things come back down. This includes things we enjoy like batteries, bike motors, solar panels etc. This will be good for us all.
 
mcstar said:
Many of the claims to the expense of nuclear power are extremely exaggerated. How do I know this?
Do tell. (I have the dubious honor of knowing people who work in the plants. )

As for the the price of oil...
like cigarettes, lowering the price will simply improve sales.
 
On the topic of nuclear energy: here's a brilliant film that everyone should rent concerning plutonium making its way to the black market. It's called Pu-239. Netflix carries it. Not sure if Ballbuster carries it - I doubt it.

http://www.hbo.com/films/pu239/
 
mcstar said:
Exactly what are you waiting for an apology for EMF? I stated a simple fact. Wishing harm on others is wrong. Wouldn't you agree that's true? Are you saying you want the the price of gas to go up or not? If you want it to go up, I believe this will cause harm to others and wishing such a thing is wrong. If you do not then we are in agreement that lower gas prices are good for everyone (including the e-bike community). As the oil markte bubble continues to burst we will start to see the prices of things come back down. This includes things we enjoy like batteries, bike motors, solar panels etc. This will be good for us all.

Don't try to change the subject. We have unfinished business. I'm waiting because you owe it to me. You didn't just state a simple fact, you misquoted me and made me the subject of your ire. You didn't just state that harming others was wrong, you accused me of it and went further and said I got some sort of kick out of it and have some sort of mental problem or am "evil". WTF It's bullshit! Who in the hell do you think you are? Just because you can hide behind a keyboard, does not give you the right to lie about someone. Are you that brave in person? I doubt it. GO back to the TV and watch some more Fox News. Your hero Bill O'Reilly is about to spew some nonsense you need to jot down.

What part of that do you not understand?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDeeHvMBB1A

Here's a clip from that film. Sad to say, I know in my heart of hearts, Nuclear host the same evil as oil, only exponentially more so.

check out the clip for a taste of what we should at least be trying to have a reasonable discussion about.

Tomasius
 
EMF...
I've considered your coments both here and in PM and re-read mine to you as well. I was out of line in calling you demented, and I'm sorry. You are not evil or demented. You, no doubt think about things deeply, I can respect that. I can see how my comments would have been offensive to you.

Here are the comments you made that have cause such trouble
If some people didn't suffer so much and if it didn't throw the cost of food out of whack, I wish gas would go to 5 or 6 bucks a gallon, at least long enough to get some alternatives going. I am afraid it may all die down and "the man" will continue to bleed us and pollute the water and air with petro chemicals

You must understand that wishing gas would go up is a thought that's been bantered around since the early 90's by people with a very socialist agenda. There are people that would like to tell everyone else what is good for them and force them to capitulate to their agenda. Many myths have been propogated to mislead as many people as possible to create a mind-numbed army echoing these myths. This is very offensive to me. My comments were an emotional reaction to the thought that you were a part of this. You didn't espouse this idea to its completion so I was mistaken. My apologies.
 
Thanks for the link, I'm going to check it out right now. I think you are right. Nuclear is very, very dangerous indeed. Especially fission reactors. It makes me sick to leave some crap around with a 10,000 year half life for the future. We will be looked upon as quite primitive in our way of thinking and quite selfish.
 
EMF sed:
Thanks for the link, I'm going to check it out right now. I think you are right. Nuclear is very, very dangerous indeed. Especially fission reactors. It makes me sick to leave some crap around with a 10,000 year half life for the future. We will be looked upon as quite primitive in our way of thinking and quite selfish.

And....if we harvest wind, perhaps we'll speed aviary natural selection, creating a whole new genetic line of birds who know instinctively to fly around those big spinny things, not through them. :lol:

EMF: thanks for taking the high road. I was starting to wonder if it's safe to have a conversation around here. AND, my tard title seemed to be on the line for a bit. Sheesh! That was close! :p

T
 
mcstar said:
EMF...
I've considered your coments both here and in PM and re-read mine to you as well. I was out of line in calling you demented, and I'm sorry. You are not evil or demented. You, no doubt think about things deeply, I can respect that. I can see how my comments would have been offensive to you.

Here are the comments you made that have cause such trouble
If some people didn't suffer so much and if it didn't throw the cost of food out of whack, I wish gas would go to 5 or 6 bucks a gallon, at least long enough to get some alternatives going. I am afraid it may all die down and "the man" will continue to bleed us and pollute the water and air with petro chemicals

You must understand that wishing gas would go up is a thought that's been bantered around since the early 90's by people with a very socialist agenda. There are people that would like to tell everyone else what is good for them and force them to capitulate to their agenda. Many myths have been propogated to mislead as many people as possible to create a mind-numbed army echoing these myths. This is very offensive to me. My comments were an emotional reaction to the thought that you were a part of this. You didn't espouse this idea to its completion so I was mistaken. My apologies.

That's why I put in the disclaimer of only if it did not hurt people that can't afford it. E.g "If some people didn't suffer so much and if it didn't throw the cost of food out of whack,"

Apology accepted and appreciated. Lets forget the whole thing ever happened.

My sister in law has to drive over an hour (60 miles) to work each day and her husband is sick and can't work. I don't want her to pay for expensive gas. But, if we don't have some sort of free market incentive(s) to help promote new technologies and or systems for folks getting around- it's only going to get worse. Our whole economy is driven by fossil fuel, even the roads we drive on are made of asphalt - we have to change!

If the free market is too brutal, then why can't the government take some of the 50% tax on oil company profits and send it back to the people to offset gas for short term and also give grants or incentives (prizes) for leaps in alternative energy developments etc? Or use the tax money to give tax credits to folks that buy expensive battery powered cars or add solar and such to their homes? This could help these young industries get a foothold, by helping them for a while with these subsidies. There does not seem to be much incentive from Uncle Sam to help us break our "addiction".
 
tomasdipagio said:
EMF sed:
Thanks for the link, I'm going to check it out right now. I think you are right. Nuclear is very, very dangerous indeed. Especially fission reactors. It makes me sick to leave some crap around with a 10,000 year half life for the future. We will be looked upon as quite primitive in our way of thinking and quite selfish.

And....if we harvest wind, perhaps we'll speed aviary natural selection, creating a whole new genetic line of birds who know instinctively to fly around those big spinny things, not through them. :lol:

EMF: thanks for taking the high road. I was starting to wonder if it's safe to have a conversation around here. AND, my tard title seemed to be on the line for a bit. Sheesh! That was close! :p

T

It's a great talking point. I lived in Texas for 14 years too! It's a proud state and the people are friendly there. Places like Texas will be hard to convert to other means of transportation though, except maybe hybrids, because it is a long ways between places there. When I lived in Illinois, we would bitch if we had to drive accross town, which was 13 miles. After you live in Texas, you think nothing of driving a couple hundred miles. I have driven all day just to get BBQ at the YO ranch or go to a chili cook-off in the hill country. :) It's a huge state. I never did see the whole thing. :D
 
EMF said:
After you live in Texas, you think nothing of driving a couple hundred miles. I have driven all day just to get BBQ at the YO ranch or go to a chili cook-off in the hill country. :) It's a huge state. I never did see the whole thing. :D
Michelle Shocked has a nice ballad about living in the USA's largest state: "Anchored-Down in Anchorage".

Ironically, Alaska has the highest gas prices too.
 
NY nuke plant to miss target date on sirens
By JIM FITZGERALD,
Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 43 minutes ago

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. - Another deadline will pass Thursday without a new emergency siren system going into service around the Indian Point nuclear power plant, just 35 miles north of midtown Manhattan.

Plant owner Entergy Nuclear pledged in January that the state-of-the-art, 172-siren system would be completed and approved by its self-imposed deadline of Thursday. It announced last week that its system was ready to go.

But the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Wednesday that its approval process, required by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, could not be completed by Thursday. The review is under way but it's unclear how long it will take.

The NRC has already fined Entergy nearly $800,000 for missing two deadlines. It also missed a third deadline with no fine.

The sirens are to alert residents within 10 miles to any emergency at the plant, which is in Buchanan. An older siren system, plagued in recent years by occasional test failures, remains in place and would be used in case of a real emergency. Entergy was ordered by Congress to install backup power to the existing system, but decided to build an entire new system instead.

Entergy has had numerous problems with the sirens, leading to opposition to its application for 20-year license extensions for the two Indian Point reactors. Opponents also claim the site could be a terrorist target and the surrounding area could never be evacuated in an emergency.

FEMA spokesman Michael Beeman would not give a likely completion date for the agency's review and approval, but said it will work through this week to make sure recently installed sirens are loud enough.

NRC spokesman Neil Sheehan said Wednesday that the commission would wait until the system was up and running before deciding on punishment for the delay.

Entergy said if approval from FEMA comes by Aug. 22, it can put the system into service in 60 hours. Otherwise, it will have the system up and running eight days after approval.



Glad I don't live near there anymore... at least with an EV, you won't get stuck waiting at the pump or run out of gas on the NY thruway.
 
EMF said:
My sister in law has to drive over an hour (60 miles) to work each day and her husband is sick and can't work. I don't want her to pay for expensive gas. But, if we don't have some sort of free market incentive(s) to help promote new technologies and or systems for folks getting around- it's only going to get worse. Our whole economy is driven by fossil fuel, even the roads we drive on are made of asphalt - we have to change!

If the free market is too brutal, then why can't the government take some of the 50% tax on oil company profits and send it back to the people to offset gas for short term and also give grants or incentives (prizes) for leaps in alternative energy developments etc? Or use the tax money to give tax credits to folks that buy expensive battery powered cars or add solar and such to their homes? This could help these young industries get a foothold, by helping them for a while with these subsidies. There does not seem to be much incentive from Uncle Sam to help us break our "addiction".


First, does anyone have any idea that the government IS or WILL collect that "50% tax on oil company profits" now or at any time in the future? I just quake at the idea of ANOTHER U.S. federal bureaucracy to " help us break our "addiction"" The smashing successes of the "war on poverty" and the "war on drugs" are just two examples of Uncle Sam's "help". I believe that governments COULD provide incentives for a "mostly" free market to find solutions to most, if not all social problems. But that won't happen as long as "We The People" let the current bunch of thieves, lackeys, and idiots keep bleeding us dry from Washington. That's as far as I'm going to go into what almost turned into a political rant, except to say Wake UP People!!!
Vote against ALL the incumbents on your ballot!
 
Man! That's a heck of a rant, Ragtop! Bring it on!

saw a great bumper ticker the other day: The Second Coming! Everything for Free. Obama in 08.

Heck should say: Everything for everything you got.
 
EMF said:
The price is going down due to decreased demand


Aha. With my many qualifications in economics, I heartily disagree with you. The price of oil decreased 20% because local US demand decreased 3%? That's rather disproportionate, wouldn't you think? No, see, it's this part of the stock market called "The futures market" where expectations about future prices(Which includes speculation about future demand and supply) drive the price of commodities. When the price of oil was skyrocketing, many expected it to keep increasing and increasing(as many feared), naturally thus feeding the frenzy. When it stalled at the psychological price level of 150 and many early rather large investors(The early ones tend to be largest ones) saw the opportunity, a massive sell-off ensued. This did happen coincidently around the time when demand has reached its nadir, but thats more a symptom of record high prices than a cause(As price goes up, the quantity demanded goes down, and by how much is governed by the elasticity of demand which is typically inelastic with an "essential" such as oil). The demand started declining as soon as the gas prices started skyrocketing!
 
EMF said:
Thanks for the link, I'm going to check it out right now. I think you are right. Nuclear is very, very dangerous indeed. Especially fission reactors. It makes me sick to leave some crap around with a 10,000 year half life for the future. We will be looked upon as quite primitive in our way of thinking and quite selfish.

10,000 years from now, we will be looked upon as severely primitive no matter what choices we make because the range of possible choices we can make due to our limited mental capacity would be "primitive". :p

But, as far as a short-term 20-200 year transition, I definitely don't think it's that bad. Technical safety is a mathematical certainty with newer designs however costs are still rather high, at the moment(including longterm costs) and isolation of nuclear waste is as easy as picking somewhere where no-one agrees to inhabit within a sufficient radius. Since it'd be a short-term long-term solution, the amount of waste wouldn't be that great.

Ultimately, though, nuclear energy will definitely provide all of our energies in the future. Fusion already provides all of our energy sources considering that nucleosynthesis in stars have created all matter beyond hydrogen. Considering the fuel-efficiency of fusion and the cleanliness of it, our energy sources will almost definitely converge to it in the longterm whether this be a solar-derivative(Wind results due to pressure differentials which are based on past pressure differentials and all of that all derives from temperature, where other variables just "shift" around, such as humidity; Hydropower comes form rain-generated rivers that originally came from solar-based evaporation; etc.) or own fusion efforts. Since fusion, though, would most economically come from hydrogen and considering the most abundant form of hydrogen in our solar system is the sun(>99% of the hydrogen in the solar system), it is almost certain that ALMOST ALL, in the mathematical sense,(Besides this blip of modern humanity's existence and the next 100-2000 years, possibly) of our future energy needs will come from the sun.

Honestly, future nanotechnology/technology-in-general will clean up almost all of our current pollution. It may require more energy to clean up than what we usefully extracted, but if energy-cleanup becomes a future necessity for some reason, then I'm almost positive the technology will be developed. It's definitely not impossible from the theoretical level. The difference between a noxious and innocuous molecularly related molecule is simply a few rearranged atoms.
 
swbluto said:
Technical safety is a mathematical certainty with newer designs however costs are still rather high, at the moment(including longterm costs) and isolation of nuclear waste is as easy as picking somewhere where no-one agrees to inhabit within a sufficient radius.
Still a big problem...
Languages don't last as long as a half-life: you can put all the "warnings" you want around the pit, but nobody will be able to read or understand em.

In nuclear waste, isotopes with very short half-lives, say a few days or even a few weeks, are not the major concern. They will decay to negligible amounts within a year or two. Isotopes with very long half-lives, more than 1000 years, are likely to be less intense. But one has to plan storage and protection for the public on a time-scale of thousands of years. We cannot be very confidant about guaranteeing this protection reliably.
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/physics/sobel/Nucphys/waste.html

High level waste (HLW) is produced by nuclear reactors. It contains fission products and transuranic elements generated in the reactor core. It is highly radioactive and often thermally hot. LLW and ILW accounts for over 95% of the total radioactivity produced in the process of nuclear electricity generation. The amount of HLW worldwide is currently increasing by about 12,000 metric tons every year, which is the equival to about 100 double-decker busses or a two-story structure built on top of a basketball court.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste
 
You guys need to learn more about nuclear power techonlogy before stating so many things as facts. Start by learning a bit about breeder reactors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_reactor These reactor designs are able to reduce the amount and intensity of nuclear waste dramatically by utilizing a wider array of fussionable material. By doing this you reduce the number of years the waste must be stored dramtically. This technology can even be used to burn up old nuclear material and make it safe. So much work and research has gone into these designs that today they can be built safely and used anywhere. I'd welcome one in my home town. Heck, I'd probably go work there.

During my naval career I worked on the first nuclear carrier in the US fleet. We operated daily on two 25 year old reactors that were only designed to to last 20 years. By careful energy management we were able to add millions of useable nautical miles to the reactor's expected end-of-life. Sure we were aided by sophisticated electronics and computers, but frankly without the incredible knowledge base and training of the individuals that worked on it in the past, these real-world gains would have never been possible. It's because of the genius and expertise of thousands of people working together that we were able to push the system so far beyond it's designed end-of-life. Not only that, but all together we created many millions of pages of data on the system. We collected and logged everything in 15 minute or smaller increments. We maticulously detailed every system change no matter how small, down to the exact time specific valves opened or closed, switches changed and throttles changed and meter readings were taken. All this was all compiled, collected and is being used now by the next generation engineers to design even more awesome reactors that are even more powerful, energy efficient and cost effective. One thing you guys need to keep in mind, in an industry like this, safety is a design characteristic, not just a happen stance! Things do not just "go wrong". Everything done is done by experts and is logged by them and others. Then what was done is reviewed by experts that day, the next day, next month, next year etc. Each step of the way priority is given to safety, then extension of life and finally to design and performance improvement. The process is open and explicit and nothing falls through the cracks. This is ensured by the training and culture and enforced by command and confirmed by oversight. It's unlike anything in the civilian experience. Making claims about the system having not been in it is quite foolharty, but much can be learned by the experiences that have been collected over the years. We'd be wise to learn from this.
 
mcstar said:
During my naval career I worked on the first nuclear carrier in the US fleet. We operated daily on two 25 year old reactors that were only designed to to last 20 years.... Making claims about the system having not been in it is quite foolharty, but much can be learned by the experiences that have been collected over the years. We'd be wise to learn from this.

U.S. says submarine leaked radiation in 3 Japan ports
Thu Aug 7, 6:55 AM ET

TOKYO (Reuters) - A U.S. nuclear-powered submarine which has steadily been leaking a small amount of radiation for over two years stopped at three Japanese ports, as well as Guam and Pearl Harbor, the United States and Japan said on Thursday.

Japan was notified by the United States last week that the nuclear-powered USS Houston had been leaking water containing a small amount of radiation, but was told at the time that it was unclear when the leak had started.

A statement from the U.S. government on Thursday said the Houston had been leaking radiation from June 2006 to July 2008.

During that time, the Houston docked at the Japanese ports of Yokosuka, 45 km (30 miles) southwest of Tokyo and in the southern island of Okinawa, as well as at Sasebo, 980 km (610 miles) southwest of Tokyo, the U.S. statement said.

Both the U.S. and Japanese governments said the radiation leak was too small to cause harm.

"We do not think that the amount of leakage would have any impact on humans or the environment," a Japanese foreign ministry official said.

The Houston may have also released a small amount of radioactivity into Pearl Harbor in Hawaii and Guam, the U.S. statement said.

The radiation leak is a fresh blow for Tokyo and Washington, which has been planning to station a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in Japan, the only nation in the world to have suffered nuclear attacks.

Local residents and civic groups expressed concern over the deployment of the USS George Washington after a fire on the nuclear-powered warship in May. They called for more information about that fire.

Japan said the Houston's radiation leak would not have any impact on the plan to deploy the George Washington at Yokosuka.

"The United States assures strict procedures and prevention systems for nuclear-powered warships coming into port, and Japan is also checking the radiation levels 24 hours a day," the foreign ministry official said.

The Houston radiation leak caused a big media stir in Japan last week, with the foreign ministry criticized for failing to disclose the leak promptly to the government and the public.



Earlier this year, the Air Farce flew live nukes over most of the US.

Folks like McStar personify the oxymoron of "military intelligence".
 
Look Tyler, everytime you go outside you are standing underneath a massive radiation leak. In four years of working on a pressurized water reactor of the same design as the one on that sub, I receieved a grand total of 100mRads. That's like 30minutes in a tanning bed. Even the water in the primary coolant of the reactor, although technically contaminated, is not harmful unless you drink it undiluted by the bucket load. Yes, it has some radiation in it, but can it do any harm? The answer is no. The reason is the that level of radiation in it is miniscule. That coolant does come in contact with the fuel plates in the core, but it's shielded from the fissionable material by a layer of metal that prevents the heavy fission byproducts from getting into the water. In addition, the water chemistry is very carefully controlled to eliminate heavier metals and reduce the possibility of anything with a substantial half life being in the water. This is something that's done daily on all operating pressurized water reactors and it means the water has only very light atoms in it with very very short half-lifes. This isn't like the stuff the Russians had so much problem with. You should read up on modern pressurized water reactors before trying to spread fear about something you know nothing about. If you rely on fear and uncertainty to dictate your behavoir, you'll make the wrong decision most of the time. Sure you can find articles in the media making ridiculus claims, but none of them have any knowledge about the subjects they are talking about. Or, you could just keep regurgitating their mindless dribble, the choice is yours.
 
My sister is a radiologist( sp?) and i have a best friend working at the Point Lepreau power plant here in NB ( just received the go ahead for a massive update and refurbish ) ..

Talking with both of them, it's a very controlled enviroment, they wear badges that change color if they get exposed to minute amounts of radiation, etc.. the amount of red-tape that goes on over every small activity with these things is unreal..

Personally.. i live larger dangers each day.. no matter what i think or do this will go on.. what'cha gonna do.. :|
 
NY nuclear plant likely a quake risk: study
Fri Aug 22, 3:15 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A nuclear power plant that lies within commuting distance of New York City is more likely to be shaken by an earthquake than previously thought because it sits atop a newly identified intersection of two active seismic zones, scientists said.

The Indian Point nuclear reactor is within a mile or two of both a seismic zone running from Stamford, Connecticut, to Peekskill, New York, and the Ramapo seismic line, said the study by seismologists at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory.

Large earthquakes are infrequent around New York compared to more active areas like California, but the risk is higher because of the millions of people that live around the largest U.S. city and the infrastructure surrounding it, said Lynn Sykes, the lead author of the study.

Indian Point, which is owned by Entergy Corp, lies about 40 miles north of New York City in the town of Buchanan, which sits on the banks of the Hudson River.

"The problem here comes from many subtle faults. We now see there is earthquake activity on them. Each one is small, but when you add them up, they are probably more dangerous than we thought," said Leonardo Seeber, a co-author of the study, which appeared in the Bulletin of the Seismological Society of America.

Jim Steets, a spokesman for the plant, said the study added nothing new to what was known before the plant was built and that Indian Point was made to withstand a magnitude 7 quake on the Mercalli scale, equal to about 6.1 on the Richter scale.

The study said Richter magnitude 5 quakes, which are strong enough to cause damage, occurred around New York in 1737, 1783 and 1884 and that stronger quakes in the area are possible.

(Reporting by Timothy Gardner; Editing by Christian Wiessner)
 
Fortunately the solid concrete bunker style foundations supporting reactors hold up well to earthquakes. The engineerers that design them are very aware of the dangers involved. Watch out for what you read in the the media, they are always looking for a story and rarely do a good job checking their facts fully.
 
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