Xiongda YTW-06 mini hub motor

[zro-1]

Xiongda has a relatively new hub motor available that's even smaller and much lighter than the Q100 but has a higher gear reduction which should provide greater torque at the same power levels. I didn't find any threads here discussing this motor, so I figured I'd start one. I think this motor should be very interesting to people on here who are building light, stealthy, lower-powered ebikes that focus on assist rather than raw power—or the folks in the EU who have low power restrictions for road bikes.

To get started, here are the basic specs for the rear motor (plus what I've learned in chats while ordering one):

Voltage: 24/36/48V
Design: Brushless
Wattage: 201 - 300W
Rated Power: 250W
Color: Silver/Black
Weight: 1.4kg (3.09 lbs)
Gear Ratio: 17.5 (for 26", 29", 700c, etc size wheels), 12.25 (for 20" wheels), and 8.4 (for 12", 14", 16" wheels)
Wheel RPM (at 36V, 17.5 gearing): 210±10 RPM
RPM range: 210 - 320 RPM depending on gearing (they suggest no more than 28 kph (17.4 mph) speed, but that may be for legal reasons)
Maximum Torque: 40N.m
Axle width: 135MM (can special order 120mm as I've done)
Brake: Disc-brake/V-brake
Freewheel: 6~7s Freewheel (single-speed in 120mm)
Cassette: No, freewheel only
Spoke holes: 36 (32 holes is not available at this time, but they are considering it)
Pole pairs: 8
Effective pole pairs: 17.5:1 = 140, 12.25:1 = 98, 8.4:1 = 67
Approximate kV: 5.83 RPM/V
Sensors: Optional (hall and speed sensors are available at no extra cost)
Pricing: (not including shipping)

• YTW-06: $75 USD
• Sensorless Controller: $25 USD
• Sensor Controller: $25 USD
• Display: $25 USD
• Pedal Sensor: $3 USD
• Throttle: $5 USD
• Brake Levers: $5 USD

This motor is also available in a front motor configuration (100mm width).

When you order the motor they will ask you for the desired voltage and wheel diameter. I suspect the voltage is for the controller, and the wheel diameter is for the gearing. Bonnie, the sales rep encouraged me to get their controller with the motor, which I declined. Xiongda will not cover a warranty on this motor if it's not used with their controller. I ordered the motor alone without a controller since I'm using a Phaserunner, and had to let them know that I understood that there wouldn't be warranty coverage if there was a fault. In other words, if you hotrod this motor, and burn it out, they won't cover the damage, which is to be expected of any company.

Here's the dimensional diagrams for the front and rear versions of this motor:




Note the cable exit inside of the forks instead of out the end of the axle. That should be a nice change for those of you using Q100s. Also, the Q100 has a total diameter of 120mm where this motor has a total diameter of just 101mm.

And here are some images of the motor:






I'm pretty excited about this motor, and I'll be adding info here once I have my order in hand and can examine it in depth and test it out. I'll also provide some side-by-side comparisons between this and the Q100. I may try to take the side cover off to get a look at the gears, and I'll share the Rs and Ls of the motor once I get it hooked up to the Phaserunner and run it through autotune.

 

[zro-1]

YTW-06 rear: https://xiongdamotor.en.alibaba.com/product/60734803687-0/YTW_06_Rear_Motor.html

YTW-06 front: https://xiongdamotor.en.alibaba.com/product/60733157962-0/YTW_06.html

 

[zro-1]

My YTW-06 is almost here (I never thought I'd say this, but Monday can't come fast enough), and Xiongda tested the motor before they shipped it out. The motor they built for me is running at 230 RPM at 36V. That's a little faster than they list in their marketing material, but only a little (they have 210 RPM ± 10 RPM). 230 RPM at 36V works out to 6.39 RPM/V, so at 48V, this motor should spin at 306.7 RPM, and that's using the 17.5:1 gearing.

 

[wturber]

My YTW-06 is almost here (I never thought I'd say this, but Monday can't come fast enough), and Xiongda tested the motor before they shipped it out. The motor they built for me is running at 230 RPM at 36V. That's a little faster than they list in their marketing material, but only a little (they have 210 RPM ± 10 RPM). 230 RPM at 36V works out to 6.39 RPM/V, so at 48V, this motor should spin at 306.7 RPM, and that's using the 17.5:1 gearing.

So what - do they build these one-by-one?

I've got my fingers crossed that these work out nicely. I have some projects in mind for one or two of these.

 

[zro-1]

So what - do they build these one-by-one?

No, I don't believe so, but I wanted one that had a 120mm width axle (stock is 135mm), and I ordered it with a longer cable coming out of the side plate to connect directly to my controller since the controller is mounted down by the bottom bracket. It took 2 weeks for the build before they shipped it.

Otherwise, they probably just pull from existing stock when you place an order.

 

[zro-1]

I've received my motor today. I haven't gotten it laced into the wheel or wired up yet, but I wanted to show some pictures of the Xiongda next to the Q100 for some size comparisons

 

[spinningmagnets]

For most of the hot rodders around here, a motor of this size is laughable, but...I am very intrigued for a specific reason.

There are many places where a stealthy build is very desirable. As long as you ride responsibly, you will not likely draw any attention to yourself, however, there is always that one person who wants to cause trouble for you if they notice that you have a "powered" bicycle.

You can hide a fairly powerful rear hubmotor behind cargo bags (panniers?) in the rear, but...if a geared hubmotor is small enough, it can be added to the front without drawing any scrutiny. It may not be able of providing a lot of power, but it doesn't take much to help out a great deal. Having the total system watts spread out over two motors isn't just about the total copper mass, it also spreads out the heat-shedding over two aluminum housings, and...heat-shedding is the limiting factor on geared hubs.

In fact, you can have a fairly large direct-drive hub hidden on the back wheel, but clearly...the front wheel is always very exposed. This hubmotor may be small, but it adds 2WD to the equation, along with a few extra watts of acceleration. As far as the amount of heat it can survive, I'd also keep in mind that with 2WD, you only need to use the front when you are accelerating (if you like)...giving it plenty of time to cool off before the next blast-off...Your constant cruise speed can be maintained by the back hub alone.

 

[motomech]

Why is everybody always talking about mini geared motors "over-heating"??? I have used every version of the Q100, climbed long hills during a 100 degree Az.day and the only thing that "over-heated" are my controllers, and I weight 250 lb.s.
What does an "over-heated" mini motor look like anyhow. You mean cooked and smelly insides, yeah we have seen that on occasions when destructive types run 60, 70 and more Volts thru them, like mckeefer, but when and where is a report of a mini "over-heating" during normal usage at or below 48 Volts?
Somebody show me so I can understand why everyone is so worried about "over-heating" their mini motors.
These things are rated at around 350 Watts and if some common sense is used and one doesn't try and go more than double that, they will be fine.

 

[motomech]

As for these new really sm geared motors, I think the frt. is kinda cool, but I don't get the rear. Why would somebody want a tiny rear motor that requires a free wheel that weighs more than the motor does? Well, I suspose if a "fixy" is used, the overall combo would be very small and lite, but the rider better have strong legs, because the motor isn't going to provide much "off the line" torque.
It would have been more useful if it could accept a cassette, I.M.O.

 

[zro-1]

I'll be sure to give as thorough a ride report as I can. I don't have a Cycleanalyst to measure peak watts, volts, amps, or temps, but I can know exactly what watts I'm putting into this motor via the programming in the Phaserunner. I'll be using Strava to capture my ride route and speeds for an overall ride estimate. I can also describe how it "feels" compared to the fast-geared Q100H it is replacing.

Clearly this motor isn't directly comparable to a bigger motor that can take more raw wattage, but for its size and weight, I think it will hold it's own. Since it is lower power, it also allows smaller lighter batteries along with the lighter motor weight. Both of which allow you to use a lighter bike frame and components. I think if you were to take the total vehicle weight and the watts this motor will run reliably at, you'd find that it stacks up well to the larger motors running at 56-72 volts.

Either way, we will definitely see. I'm not going to argue one way or the other for or against this motor until I've gotten some miles on it. More to come as I get this thing on the road.

 

[Papa]

How long was the prototype in beta? And how much distructive testiing was done before public release? It definitely has appeal, but I'm not one to eagerly reach for the plastic,.. absent of many miles of end-user data.

I patienty waited over 8 years before I opted for a Q100H - and considering it's relatively unblemished reliability record, I'm not at all disappointed. Hopefully, you won't be disappointed with your newly purchased Xiongda.

 

[amberwolf]

Why is everybody always talking about mini geared motors "over-heating"??? I have used every version of the Q100, climbed long hills during a 100 degree Az.day and the only thing that "over-heated" are my controllers, and I weight 250 lb.s.
What does an "over-heated" mini motor look like anyhow. You mean cooked and smelly insides, yeah we have seen that on occasions when destructive types run 60, 70 and more Volts thru them, like mckeefer, but when and where is a report of a mini "over-heating" during normal usage at or below 48 Volts?
Somebody show me so I can understand why everyone is so worried about "over-heating" their mini motors.
These things are rated at around 350 Watts and if some common sense is used and one doesn't try and go more than double that, they will be fine.

I recall Dogman Dan "melting" a little Fusin hubmotor here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18921
using just the stock controller/etc. This is what it looked like when I opened it up after he gave it to me a while after that
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=48591
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22720&p=330935&hilit=fusin*+melt*#p330935

That said, I abused a nearly identical one hauling heavy (and wiggly) cargo at significantly higher currents than it was made for, and until I finally broke the clutch on it (cracked) the worst that happened was getting it so hot sometimes that the halls stopped working temporarily, until it cooled down some. Never did damage the motor itself.

 

[zro-1]

How long was the prototype in beta? And how much distructive testiing was done before public release? It definitely has appeal, but I'm not one to eagerly reach for the plastic,.. absent of many miles of end-user data.

I patienty waited over 8 years before I opted for a Q100H - and considering it's relatively unblemished reliability record, I'm not at all disappointed. Hopefully, you won't be disappointed with your newly purchased Xiongda.

The motor has been in production for about a year. d8veh got one back in June of 2017.

 

[zro-1]

There are a couple things about this motor I'm not thrilled with, but aren't deal-breakers.

1. The clutch is super stiff. Like it barely spins off the ground if you flick it by hand, stiff. The clutch is also noisy off the ground when you spin the wheel with the pedals. It's not a grinding sound; its more like very tight rollers—kind of a whine. I'm hoping the drag and noise go away as the clutch breaks-in. Other owners of this motor have commented on this, so I don't think it's unique to my motor, but rather how its designed. This little motor can generate 40 newton-meters of torque (at factory-recommended power levels), so it may need a tighter clutch to avoid slipping.
2. The flats on the axles are cut to 9.75mm rather than 10mm, so there is some rotational slop back and forth in the rear fork/dropout openings since on my frame it's cutout for 10mm axles. I might look into adding a flat shim, but I think a well positioned torque arm should be enough. Also once you tighten the nuts to proper torque on the axle, the slop is gone due to the squeezing tension. You only notice it when the axle is sitting free in the fork slots or dropouts. I just worry about the openings getting bashed under operation. My frame has stainless steel inserts on the dropouts, so the motor isn't torquing against bare aluminum, but I'm still going to toss on a torque arm. Alternately, this may be a blessing for those of you with tight dropouts that would need to be filed to fit a different motor.

A couple things I love:

1. This motor is so small it almost hides behind a 16-tooth freewheel.
2. The fit and finish of all parts, including the wiring, is as nice as I've ever seen—including compared to Bafang stuff.
3. The operating noise when I ran the motor off the ground during auto-tune setup with my Phaserunner wasn't significantly louder than my Q100. There are quieter geared hub motors to be sure, but so far, this wasn't so bad. I'll update about the motor noise once I've got the bike back on the road.

I still need to make my revised 3-button throttle and get my bars taped before I can take the bike out for a meaningful ride, but I'll post my opinions and maybe a video or two once I have a couple of miles on this.

 

[zro-1]

I've been spelunking through some threads about this motor over at pedelecs.co.uk and they are reporting that the freewheeling of the motor improved significantly after a few miles.

Also, it looks like this motor will readily pull 12.5A at factory voltages. If this motor can handle 12.5A at 48V this would mean that this motor could run reliably at 600W and still be within the manufactured specs. Since we know that most motors can handle spikes above their rated max, I'm thinking this motor might handle bursts of 15-17 amps for a short duration. I have a few short but steep hills on my commute—one is 19.5% for a few feet and 15% average. I may run this motor at 720W (48V 15A) and see what happens. After all, we don't have much info on what these little motors can handle, so I can be the lab rat—I'm not going to intentionally push this motor to it's melting point though—I'll start at 600W and keep you posted.

 

[zro-1]

I've got my bike back on it's wheels and rolling it around and coasting for a few feet didn't feel as bad as I thought it would with how stiff the clutch felt with the wheel off the ground. I'm still waiting to complete the build of my throttle, so I haven't gotten it out for a real ride yet. But, I have a couple more pics showing just how tiny this motor is.

---



---

 

[neptronix]

Awesome! thanks for your report on this. I've really been thinking about building up a 700c wheel bike with one of these for months. This motor looks like just the ticket. 3lbs is freaking sweet.

Can you do this thread a favor and upload a quick video of you spinning the wheel forward and backwards by hand in order to show the drag of the wheel? I've always done this when testing a geared motor, because some of them drag bad under freewheeling, some of them spin like they're not even there..

If you have good results, i'll get one and do measurements of the power per speed, etc.

Also it looks like this motor only takes a single speed freewheel from here.. is that true?

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

I am also intrigued with this motor, having run several Cute100s. I did burn out one Cute100 at 20 amps/48 volts - restricted to 15amp controllers, they are very nice to ride. If this smaller version can do 12 amps continuous at 48 volts, with good torque and good freewheeling, we may have a winner. It almost looks the same as a Nexus 7 hub on that back wheel...keep those reports coming. I wouldn't want it louder than a Cute100 though. Small bikes like my Cannondale Hooligan climb like a goat with these small motors - I had one up several steep logging roads in Whistler last summer - very enjoyable.

 

[Confuzsays@hotmail.com]

Love it!

 

[JohanK]

Hello, here is a video from the motor 290rpm, freewheel not so good: https://youtu.be/PpaGfM4vh8s
The battery is 36V, the engine has a lot of power, on the mountain too, makes more noise at idle as in operation and under load, freewheel a bit stiff but maybe that will get better with time? Sorry my english :?

 

[rafeh1]

whats the net weight motor batt and all

Xiongda has a relatively new hub motor available that's even smaller and much lighter than the Q100 but has a higher gear reduction which should provide greater torque at the same power levels. I didn't find any threads here discussing this motor, so I figured I'd start one. I think this motor should be very interesting to people on here who are building light, stealthy, lower-powered ebikes that focus on assist rather than raw power—or the folks in the EU who have low power restrictions for road bikes.

To get started, here are the basic specs for the rear motor (plus what I've learned in chats while ordering one):

Voltage: 24/36/48V
Design: Brushless
Wattage: 201 - 300W
Rated Power: 250W
Color: Silver/Black
Weight: 1.4kg (3.09 lbs)
Gear Ratio: 17.5 (for 26", 29", 700c, etc size wheels), 12.25 (for 20" wheels), and 8.4 (for 12", 14", 16" wheels)
Wheel RPM (at 36V, 17.5 gearing): 210±10 RPM
RPM range: 210 - 320 RPM depending on gearing (they suggest no more than 28 kph (17.4 mph) speed, but that may be for legal reasons)
Maximum Torque: 40N.m
Axle width: 135MM (can special order 120mm as I've done)
Brake: Disc-brake/V-brake
Freewheel: 6~7s Freewheel (single-speed in 120mm)
Cassette: No, freewheel only
Spoke holes: 36 (32 holes is not available at this time, but they are considering it)
Pole pairs: 8
Effective pole pairs: 17.5:1 = 140, 12.25:1 = 98, 8.4:1 = 67
Approximate kV: 5.83 RPM/V
Sensors: Optional (hall and speed sensors are available at no extra cost)
Pricing: (not including shipping)

• YTW-06: $75 USD
• Sensorless Controller: $25 USD
• Sensor Controller: $25 USD
• Display: $25 USD
• Pedal Sensor: $3 USD
• Throttle: $5 USD
• Brake Levers: $5 USD

This motor is also available in a front motor configuration (100mm width).

When you order the motor they will ask you for the desired voltage and wheel diameter. I suspect the voltage is for the controller, and the wheel diameter is for the gearing. Bonnie, the sales rep encouraged me to get their controller with the motor, which I declined. Xiongda will not cover a warranty on this motor if it's not used with their controller. I ordered the motor alone without a controller since I'm using a Phaserunner, and had to let them know that I understood that there wouldn't be warranty coverage if there was a fault. In other words, if you hotrod this motor, and burn it out, they won't cover the damage, which is to be expected of any company.

Here's the dimensional diagrams for the front and rear versions of this motor:

YTW-06_front.jpg
YTW-06_rear.jpg

Note the cable exit inside of the forks instead of out the end of the axle. That should be a nice change for those of you using Q100s. Also, the Q100 has a total diameter of 120mm where this motor has a total diameter of just 101mm.

And here are some images of the motor:

ytw-06_01.jpeg
ytw-06_02.jpg
ytw-06_03.jpg
ytw-06_04.jpg

I'm pretty excited about this motor, and I'll be adding info here once I have my order in hand and can examine it in depth and test it out. I'll also provide some side-by-side comparisons between this and the Q100. I may try to take the side cover off to get a look at the gears, and I'll share the Rs and Ls of the motor once I get it hooked up to the Phaserunner and run it through autotune.

 

[neptronix]

Hello, here is a video from the motor 290rpm, freewheel not so good: https://youtu.be/PpaGfM4vh8s
The battery is 36V, the engine has a lot of power, on the mountain too, makes more noise at idle as in operation and under load, freewheel a bit stiff but maybe that will get better with time? Sorry my english :?

Wow, same resistance both ways. Seems like there's no clutch in it!

 

[zro-1]

That video looks accurate to what I've been seeing as well. Thank you for sharing that JohanK! What's interesting, and I think JohanK was getting at this also, is that this motor feels much less stiff when you're rolling the bike around than when you just spin it freely by hand. For example when I felt how little it spun, I was worried it would have a lot of drag, but even just walking the bike I really didn't notice any more heft to it than when I had the Q100 on the same bike. And that Q100 definitely spun more freely than this motor does right now.

One thing I'll still point out is that supposedly this stiff clutch gets better as it wears in. FarthingPenny had DMed me and mentioned that he was talking to Bonnie from Xionda and it sounds like this motor uses a needle-bearing clutch that is situated on a hardened part of the axle. I'm not planning on opening my motor unless I have trouble with it (sorry) so I can't say with any certainty how this motor is built, but it has to be some compact multi-stage gearing to get 17.5:1 in this tiny shell.

I'll have my throttle and wiring bits on Thursday, so I should be able to get this bike on the road hopefully by Friday, but if not then certainly over the weekend. I'll take some video of the motor in different scenarios for you guys to check out.

 

[zro-1]

I also wanted to say: JohanK, that is a really really nice bike you have.

 

[zro-1]

whats the net weight motor batt and all

Well, the net weight depends on a number of things. The motor weighs 1.4kg (3.09 lbs) and my particular 13s2p battery with BMS weighs 3 lbs, 1.9oz. So roughly 6 pounds total for battery and motor for my particular setup.

In my build thread I mentioned that my bike came in at 20.6 pounds (using a crappy bathroom scale to weigh it) with the Q100H and no battery (it's been in a backpack), but I guesstimated that with the battery mounted on the bike and the YTW-06 motor, I'd be looking at a total weight of about 21.8 pounds.