I'm in contact with them but here's photon thread so let's not make ot
CYC PHOTON
- Thread starter pxl666
- Start date
Honestly, I prefer no sensor.
a twist throttle and freewheel. It meshes well I don't need. It is just extra to have. But can be nice maybe to turn off brain and just bike.
Right now I am using a 1680w cyclone kit.
If you want to talk about noise, I think the new cyc should perform well. The photon looks like good compromise. Most stuff coming out of Hong Kong have vastly higher QC standards then the rest of China imho. Depending on the controller and battery match. It looks like a clean little kit.
Will be relatively easy to maintain and headache free depending on parts..
I'll tell you now. If you learn to do yourself. It will be much better.
If you have some little bit of shop space (even have seen guys rebuild entire hubs in their apartments). If it is not integrated. Now you can swap frames and kits.
If integrated runs into issues you are stuck. Nice for standardized wiring. But with some do it yourself, getting a stand alone kit. Is a lot better on the bike end of things. You end up at the mercy of the manufacture rather then being able to swap out bike parts yourself.
Even buying a used bike you like + A kit, and then a decent battery.
Learning how to rebuild or swap out bad cells in a battery will also save you money. The bike could last you 5 years + easy without a ton of maintenance.
The way I look at buying a pre-built E-Bike is you get less on the Bike part of things usually. Good mountain bikes are very expensive now..
Also buying a used frame is a good way, but the standards for wheel spacing has changed in last 10 years. Also 26" wheels are pretty well getting phased out. So do some research and maybe look online for used bikes to see what to expect on a decent bike to build on.
a twist throttle and freewheel. It meshes well I don't need. It is just extra to have. But can be nice maybe to turn off brain and just bike.
Right now I am using a 1680w cyclone kit.
If you want to talk about noise, I think the new cyc should perform well. The photon looks like good compromise. Most stuff coming out of Hong Kong have vastly higher QC standards then the rest of China imho. Depending on the controller and battery match. It looks like a clean little kit.
Will be relatively easy to maintain and headache free depending on parts..
I'll tell you now. If you learn to do yourself. It will be much better.
If you have some little bit of shop space (even have seen guys rebuild entire hubs in their apartments). If it is not integrated. Now you can swap frames and kits.
If integrated runs into issues you are stuck. Nice for standardized wiring. But with some do it yourself, getting a stand alone kit. Is a lot better on the bike end of things. You end up at the mercy of the manufacture rather then being able to swap out bike parts yourself.
Even buying a used bike you like + A kit, and then a decent battery.
Learning how to rebuild or swap out bad cells in a battery will also save you money. The bike could last you 5 years + easy without a ton of maintenance.
The way I look at buying a pre-built E-Bike is you get less on the Bike part of things usually. Good mountain bikes are very expensive now..
Also buying a used frame is a good way, but the standards for wheel spacing has changed in last 10 years. Also 26" wheels are pretty well getting phased out. So do some research and maybe look online for used bikes to see what to expect on a decent bike to build on.
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CaptainCodswallop
100 µW
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2019
- Messages
- 8
I will have some To7 Motors end of the month shipping allowing. Working hard with their Western representative to get some key values embraced by them in terms of serviceability, quality and warranty. Hearing lots of encouraging things though. This is some footage of the Photon unrestricted at 2000 watts. I was impressed. I really like the way this motor feels. Its a lot of fun.
...I was going to say, "video or it didn't happen" and figured you'd have a vid out soon. Enjoyed that, wow - ~70kph!
Going to definitely be careful with my system, it really needs to last (and so do I
)I decided on the DIY kit route after looking at just how appallingly low spec the big manufacturers bikes actually are; you pay a lot of money for even a basic big brand ebike and then heaps more if you want to move up to a halfway decent ebike. Then you are tied in to the manufacturer/dealers restrictions on service and parts and no modifications.
Given I already had a far better bike that (say) Trek Powerfly HT (I have better geometry, dropper post, fork, better brakes etc) even though the Photon is absurdly expensive I still get a better bike for less, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to fit the kit. Bike tools are cheap and readily available online, just plan ahead a little and you'll be fine. And if I decide the conversion doesn't suit me, I can always return the bike back to its original state and fit the motor to something else.
Maybe eventually a mobility scooter
Plus I get more configurability for running the Photon, with the choice of as much power, or as little, as I need; and many battery options. The caveat here is that we don't know how reliable or serviceable the Photon is IRL.
I'd be looking for decent geometry, 29" wheels and decent brakes on any bike I planned to convert. Old 26" are generally not going to have those features. Second hand market is going to improve as people have to get rid of everything they don't need or can't afford, so there may be some better deals coming, and anyway dealers are dropping their prices rapidly now, even a new mid spec bike might work OK for a conversion. In any case, pick a decent frame that has modern features (like tapered headset, BSA BB, disc brakes) and that suits your exact riding, and you can always upgrade some parts on it later. With older 26" bikes you probably can't even upgrade the fork now.
It makes little sense to me to fit the Photon to a cheap bike with shortcomings, the cost of the bike is a fraction of the total cost yet has a huge effect on the end result.
i have build several ebikes and i have bought two new marin rift zone for conversion . i have ridden them with tsdz2 with great pleasure . i ride on mountain foot trails so no special bike trails and i really know how to beat bike and motor with serious mtb ... i believe i know what i need and what i want . as i said - i'd rather save more money and buy bafang integrated than spend so much money to another conversion . period . there is no way cyc gets close to any integrated motor apart from power and speed which i don't need as i do mtb climbing and downhill not flat racing . bafang motors are easily serviceable and way more robust than cyc . not comparable i'd say ...
i was hoping photon was better tsdz2 with a little higher price tag . when it's price is 5x tsdz2 and delivery time is 8-10 weeks and same for spare parts (proprietary chainring wtf) i see no point in being screwed in that way ... sorry .
Mongo
100 W
I went for a test ride, and other than not really missing the DS103 fine print data, I didn't notice any operation issues or real problems. The BT app still works - but then it should, being that it's run by the controller, and the antenna is in the speed sensor housing. The three assist levels seemed to behave as before when using the DS103 display.
One display software quirk I noticed was that, when turned on, error 30H very briefly displays. This may be because the display boots up so fast, and the controller might not yet be yacking on the serial data line.
I'm using it till I come across a reason not to.
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Mongo
100 W
Glad you've come to a decision, and I hope the new integrated motor e-bike is on order.
to7 and new tongsheng first...
Matze_Senpai
100 W
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2022
- Messages
- 123
man i sure am a little jealous of photon owners! i would never thought that photon could go up to 2000w. its super fast in that video, my bbshd only goes like 50kph with 42t chainring, which is still plenty fast. not sure how its in america or other places, but where i live (austria) the photon would cost me min 1200€ and i paid 600€ for a bbshd so the difference is just too big for me to justify this motor, still impressed with what cyc has brought out here.
Mongo
100 W
The international pricing comparisons are surprising me quite a bit. Here's the pricing from a typical U.S. vendor, for both the BBSHD and the Photon: without a battery but with similar upgraded displays, and similarly equipped to optimally convert a typical 135mm O.L.D. and likewise geared "cross" style bike - to do this I optioned the Lekkie 40T for the BBSHD (a +$160 to the BBSHD) versus the stock 38T chainring for the Photon. I also added the BBSHD programming cable, to make both motors user-programmable:
Bafang BBSHD 1000W Motor Kit - 68-73mm - $935.00
I ask if you're going to post price comparisons, use reputable resellers (that offer and honor warranties), and match spec for spec. The BBSHD pricing has risen, at least here in the U.S.
An area CYC could reduce pricing on (IMO) is for their displays - I think CYC uses the same generic ASYNC displays everybody else is using. and then charges a premium for their custom display firmware. If this indeed is the case, perhaps the motor vendors could simply provide their display firmware to the resellers, easing the reseller's inventory.
In the U.S., depending on the buyer's desires and the individual build requirements, it appears that price-wise the BBSHD and the Photon are pretty close - at least for now. But, they serve different usage intents and have different strengths.
For fun, the Tonsheng TSDZ2 pricing from the same vendor:
TSDZ2 OSF Upgrade Motor Kit 250-750 W - $540.95
Bafang BBSHD 1000W Motor Kit - 68-73mm - $935.00
- bottom bracket size: 68-73mm
- Display: 1 x 860C Color Display for Bafang Motors (Recommended) (SKU: DISP-0057)
- Throttle Preference: 1 x Throttles - Universal Thumb (SKU: TORQ-0027)
- Brake cutoff sensor type: 1 x Brake Cutoff Sensors - Mechanical levers (Replace existing levers on mechanical brakes) (SKU: ACCE-0008)
- Chainring: 1 x LEKKIE BLING RING 40T BBS-HD Package (SKU: LEKK-0074)
- Cranks: Bafang Cranks - 170mm / Black
- Spacers: 1 x Spacers - 3x 2mm bottom bracket spacers (needed if gear reduction housing on motor touches chainstay) (SKU: 0243)
- Bafang programming cable: 1 x Bafang Programming Cable (SKU: BBSH-0223)
- Display: DS103 Color Display - to 52v
- Cranks: CYC ISIS Splined Cranks - 165mm
- Chainring Size: 38T Chainring
- Bottom Bracket Width: 68-73-83mm Version
- Throttle: 1 x Throttles - Universal Thumb (SKU: TORQ-0027)
- Brake Cutoff Sensor: 1 x Brake Cutoff Sensors - Mechanical levers (Replace existing levers on mechanical brakes) (SKU: ACCE-0008)
Configuration | BBSHD | Photon | Variation |
With lowest tooth count, wide/narrow, tightest chain line rings | Lekkie 40T ring, $935.00 | CYC 34T ring, $935.00 | same price |
With midrange tooth count, wide/narrow, tight chain line rings | Lekkie 40T ring, $935.00 | CYC 38T ring, $885.00 | BBSHD higher, +$50 or 5.5% |
With stock vendor rings | Bafang steel 46T ring, $770.00 | CYC 38T ring, SW102 display, $885.00 | Photon higher, +$115 or 13.9% |
With stock vendor rings, and base-level displays | Bafang steel 46T ring, 500S display, $715.00 | CYC 38T ring, SW102 display, $860.00 | Photon higher, +$145 or 18.4% |
With large wide/narrow, chain line rings | Lekkie 52T ring, $882.00 | CYC 50T ring, $885.00 | Photon higher, +$3 or 0.3% |
I ask if you're going to post price comparisons, use reputable resellers (that offer and honor warranties), and match spec for spec. The BBSHD pricing has risen, at least here in the U.S.
An area CYC could reduce pricing on (IMO) is for their displays - I think CYC uses the same generic ASYNC displays everybody else is using. and then charges a premium for their custom display firmware. If this indeed is the case, perhaps the motor vendors could simply provide their display firmware to the resellers, easing the reseller's inventory.
In the U.S., depending on the buyer's desires and the individual build requirements, it appears that price-wise the BBSHD and the Photon are pretty close - at least for now. But, they serve different usage intents and have different strengths.
For fun, the Tonsheng TSDZ2 pricing from the same vendor:
TSDZ2 OSF Upgrade Motor Kit 250-750 W - $540.95
- Throttle Preference: 1 x Universal Thumb (SKU: TORQ-0027)
- Brake Cuttoff Sensor Type: 1 x Mechanical levers (Replace existing levers on mechanical brakes) (SKU: ACCE-0008)
- Display: 1 x 860C Color Display for TSDZ2 OSF (SKU: DISP-0021)
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Atak_Snajpera
100 W
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2022
- Messages
- 264
Do not worry about 30H error. The same was sometimes happening on my STEALTH gen1. with ASI BAC855 controller. Even CYC mentioned something in docs that this is expected. BTW. Does your 750C display show correct battery voltage? Mine was always underestimating by 0.8v-1.0v (depending of state of charge). On other hand Eggrider V2 was always correct and was matching voltage reported by the CYC app.
What happens if you change number of assists on 750c to 9?
D
Deleted member 82754 (removed by user request)
Guest
I am an X1 Stealth owner and have no complaints with the product. (other than noise factor) Been riding it for a year and have about 1200 mi on it.
So all the pictures of the Photon I have seen lead me to believe the controller is externally mounted and not in the "bash zone" below the motor as with the X1 Stealth. The cyc website has a "controller box" that can be purchased as an option. I see no pictures of the motor with the controller mounted below.
So all the pictures of the Photon I have seen lead me to believe the controller is externally mounted and not in the "bash zone" below the motor as with the X1 Stealth. The cyc website has a "controller box" that can be purchased as an option. I see no pictures of the motor with the controller mounted below.
Atak_Snajpera
100 W
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- Jul 21, 2022
- Messages
- 264
Controller is here. Totally sealed?
for comparison full fat x6 controller for STEALTH
for comparison full fat x6 controller for STEALTH
Atak_Snajpera
100 W
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- Jul 21, 2022
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- 264
So if it dies then it's game over? Cool design! Very apple-like.
They could easily use screws + gaskets but no! Let's seal everything to make sure that user will be forced to buy a new controller directly from us.
I'm pretty sure this tiny controller will die just after warranty period if user rides constantly in unrestricted mode + throttle.
They could easily use screws + gaskets but no! Let's seal everything to make sure that user will be forced to buy a new controller directly from us.
I'm pretty sure this tiny controller will die just after warranty period if user rides constantly in unrestricted mode + throttle.
Mongo
100 W
How about very Bafang-like or very Tongsheng-like - except Tonsheng leaves out the protective potting?
CYC uses a 1 screw (Bafang 3) to hold the controller case on (likely with a gasket), has interconnect contacts to the motor core, and pots the electronics - just like Bafang. It's a proprietary controller - just like Bafang and Tongsheng.
I'm hopeful that the controller's temperature monitoring circuit will protect it.
I don't see how what CYC is doing is that different that what's done before (other than temperature monitoring and some mechanical refinements) - and I consider this a good thing. If the controller dies, you replace it (maybe even during the two-year CYC warranty) - unless you're in a very small group of e-bike DIYers that have the wherewithal and skills to troubleshoot and replace the individual components.
Per the FCC Bluetooth certification PDF floating around, the CYC Photon controller design is very similar to Luna's V2 controller - a double-stack sandwiched board design, with the high-power MOSFETS on the lower layer:
Luna V2:
CYC:
Both run on VESC code.
I'm fairly confident that the CYC Photon's overall design will have weaknesses or dislikes exposed by owners, over time. Comparative pricing isn't one of them - that's a regional/budget issue. Replacement parts availability - we'll see.
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Atak_Snajpera
100 W
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- Jul 21, 2022
- Messages
- 264
I wonder how much will they charge for X6P controller? X6 for stealth costs (without shipping) $234 or ~270 euro (with included VAT+duty).
Also I hope wait time in future will be significantly shortened because I'm still waiting for my X6 controller (ordered 2023-03-01 and not shipped to this day).
Also I hope wait time in future will be significantly shortened because I'm still waiting for my X6 controller (ordered 2023-03-01 and not shipped to this day).
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D
Deleted member 82754 (removed by user request)
Guest
That looks very clean with no cumbersome wires and plugs to deal with. Very nice.Controller is here. Totally sealed?
I can't quite see what type of connection is made with the smaller pins...spring loaded contact? Or plug? Could that be troublesome on rough terrain if spring loaded contact's viberate?
The phase outputs look like plug. And hope there is sufficient gasketing to keep those terminals clean and dry.
afzal
100 W
So you can connect VESC tool, configure as well as update the firmware ?
Atak_Snajpera
100 W
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- Jul 21, 2022
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- 264
No you can't because CYC locked their controller. With older app for BAC855 you could atleast update configuration via XML configuration file.
New app is extremely limited.
afzal
100 W
Hmm, VESC firmware is GPLv3, per license terms, vendor has to provide the source code to customer, not only that they have to provide instructions on how to update the firmware as well.
BTW, it would be interesting to know whether there are any turnkey ebikes using these kits that are legally compliant (say like pedelecs).
Atak_Snajpera
100 W
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- Jul 21, 2022
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Some guy used VESC tool on x6 and was unable to connect. It was detected in the app but connection was refused.
Good luck...does Flipsky provide theirs? (or all the various other companies and groups basing their products off VESC, including some here on the forum?)
I think that all most (business) people "see" when they start using open-source code is "hey, look, someone did all this development for us for free, let's go make some money now".
Potting is a common way to increase reliability and reduce cost, complexity, size and weight.
So few of these motors are sold that the pool of people interested in or capable of repairing one would be vanishingly small. How do I know this? Look how few people there are in this and other relevant forums, and how many times the CYC Ride Control app has been downloaded. My app review was the first, and I'm relatively late to the party.
There won't be 3rd party manufacturers making these.
