Tabless design cylindrical cells tests

Zambam said:
from post #305

Ingredients in the Glitter flux:
Spot welding machine copper to copper flux, resistance flux, can be used for lithium battery copper electrode spot welding and other copper products welding.

A paste copper flux composed of superfine copper-phospho-tin-nickel alloy powder, flux and binder.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute...
What if we can use normal solder paste for copper spot welding?
 
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Do you mean to see if the discharging rate capacity is affected? I believe the good test will be check the IR with one welded with copper nickel VS the one welded with the flux.
Our friend Engineer Levi Thomas says the mix is conductive and is not corrosive.

I personally do not think will be too much difference but will be interesting to test.
 
ZEUS-FL said:
Do you mean to see if the discharging rate capacity is affected? I believe the good test will be check the IR with one welded with copper nickel VS the one welded with the flux.
Our friend Engineer Levi Thomas says the mix is conductive and is not corrosive.

I personally do not think will be too much difference but will be interesting to test.
Click to expand...
IR test or whatever tests you think is needed to show the copper flux spot welds pass all the tests. Can you check the flux with a DVM on ohms? I hope it's non conductive as any spills can short the positive to the case.
 
thermal_runaway said:
We might be getting more details on the Molicel XA series soon.

I think the only stuff confirmed right now besides their peak charge/discharge rates & capacities is that they're tabless cells using Group14 SCC55.
Click to expand...
What is the XA series? Is it like a 21700 battery or something else?

Also any updates?
 
They are both rumored/semi announced 21700s from molicel with either higher capacity in the case of the p70x or higher discharge in case of the xa3/2/1 than what is currently available on the market. Theres more info about them in this very thread...
 
Pajda said:
Wow! If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe it. And yet the principle seems to be so simple that it could have been available here many years ago.
Click to expand...
Can you explain the principle (as you see it) how this copper flux works?
 
I have been working on a completely DIY pulse arc welder for direct welding of heavy copper to high discharge cells, I made a short video of some test welds of 0.3mm copper onto 0.2mm steel, works completely differently to a spot welder, needs tiny power in comparison and generates almost no heat, check it out:
 
devmonkey said:
I have been working on a completely DIY pulse arc welder for direct welding of heavy copper to high discharge cells, I made a short video of some test welds of 0.3mm copper onto 0.2mm steel, works completely differently to a spot welder, needs tiny power in comparison and generates almost no heat, check it out:
Click to expand...
Excellent! Will you be posting any DIY info so others can try it?
 
CamLight said:
Excellent! Will you be posting any DIY info so others can try it?
Click to expand...
ZEUS-FL said:
Interested to learn more about this as well please
Click to expand...
Thanks for the interest, I've started a new thread to discuss pulse arc welding here:
endless-sphere.com

DIY Pulse Arc welding copper directly to cells

I have been working on a completely DIY TIG pulse arc welder for direct welding of heavy copper to high discharge cells, I made a short video of some test welds of 0.3mm copper onto 0.2mm steel, works completely differently to a spot welder, needs tiny power in comparison and generates almost no...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com
 
Quick update on the tabless 5.0Ah 21700 scene. Tabless designs are trending for better performance!

Production soon starts:
• EVE INR21700/50PL: 5.0Ah, -10C/+2C continuous, -25C pulse.
• BAK INR2170-50D: 5.0Ah, -10C/+2C continuous, ~20C pulse
• Lishen LR21700LE (previously LR21700LK): 5.0Ah, -5C/+2C "max."

Under development (active):
• Samsung SDI INR21700-50U ("PRiMX50U"): 5.0Ah, tabless?
• Tenpower 50XG: 5.0Ah, tabless
• Ampace JP50: 5.0Ah, tabless

Worthy mentions:
• Innolith 21700 Power Cell: Demonstrator cell?
• V4Drive V21700HE(L)P: Demonstrator cell?

And, of course, the much anticipated multi-tab P60B and tabless P70X from Molicel.
Here is an unsubstantiated teaser about a so-called "P68B" cell (as with P55B, product specifications do evolve):
Tease.jpg
 
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Souvlucky said:
Quick update on the tabless 5.0Ah 21700 scene. Tabless designs are trending for better performance!

Production soon starts:
• EVE INR21700/50PL: 5.0Ah, -10C/+2C continuous, -25C pulse.
• BAK INR2170-50D: 5.0Ah, -10C/+2C continuous, ~20C pulse
• Lishen LR21700LE (previously LR21700LK): 5.0Ah, -5C/+2C "max."

Under development (active):
• Samsung SDI INR21700-50U ("PRiMX50U"): 5.0Ah, tabless?
• Tenpower 50XG: 5.0Ah, tabless
• Ampace JP50: 5.0Ah, tabless
Click to expand...
Samsung is confirmed to be tabless: https://www.ces.tech/ces-innovation-awards/2025/primx50u-power/
 
Souvlucky said:
Here is an unsubstantiated teaser about a so-called "P68B" cell (as with P55B, product specifications do evolve):
Click to expand...
Can you post where that table was found? I’m curious because it has older A Series cells in it, which are being phased out, and I’m wondering if the P68B is still in development or if the P60B, P70X, or another cell is its “replacement”? Thanks!
 
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I was really hoping the 2024 annual report would give us more information on upcoming cells from Molicel. The 2023 & 2022 were posted on March 20th but that date has come and gone. That P68B cell is really interesting though, looking at those capacity figures you can see it looks like its quoting the minimum capacity, which doesn't match the name for the previous cells. Like Mooch I'm curious what this means for the lineup. Could this cell be the P60B but they got more capacity than expected so decided to just skip straight to P70B as a multi-tab and the P70X will be the tabless version? All I know is it's been over a year now that the P60B was teased and I was hopeful we would get more information by now!
 
Pajda said:
Based on the discharge temperature and cycle life curves from the datasheet, the VX40 seems to be rather below average competitor.
Click to expand...

Imho they are just being conservative, based on all the tools testing and dynos, compared to other 4ah tabless cell packs (and non tabless packs) they perform about the same. We should of course see some real tests but looks like these are still not on sale on free market (unless someone wants to sacrifice a 250usd pack haha :D ).
 
Pajda said:
Based on the discharge temperature and cycle life curves from the datasheet, the VX40 seems to be rather below average competitor.
Click to expand...
Agreed…30A continuous it appears with a 50A temp-limited (to 75°C) non-continuous rating. Certainly not bad but not a standout cell. But Murata isn’t a manufacturer I would expect that from anyway. And if it’s priced accordingly (if ever available) it can be a great deal If you don’t need the absolute highest performance cell.
 
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