Lectric XP suspension fork increase modification [ retitled ]

[hillslayer@]

I was talking about putting those on your recumbent.

 

[2old]

There are broad and diverse opinions and then there’s passive aggressive antagonism to establish dominance by a ridiculous pretext. I posted an announcement, not a thesis to defend. I wasn’t looking for a peer review of something so simple it needed no further elaboration but I’ll take the constructive criticism of anyone that addresses me as a peer. Someone who’s so eager to talk down to me as an authority that they assume I’m the kind of idiot that would pull a fork 2” out of its leg assembly to double its travel and then post it on a forum as “awesome” has a core inclination to be a douche that in spirit supercedes the content of whatever they’re saying as far as I’m concerned. In any event, this isn’t like an ongoing thing in my mind. He’s all yours.

I don't read your posts except that you responded to my general one. I don't always agree with Chalo, but always appreciate his input.

 

[WaverlyCycles]

I started messing with this particular fork, the 20” Trama Cargo fork because it was the only fork I could find with a 110mm dropout width that was any better than the loathsome piece of junk Lectric uses on all of the XP bikes. The few others that exist are way overpriced and don’t have any more travel. No shock on the market is really built for a bike that weighs 70-80lbs either.

Preface: This is only tangentially related to your post.

I think that the fork you're talking about is sourced by Fritz Jou's "Bike E+" division. "Bike E+" has been the acting ODM/OEM for MANY cargo-style, hub-drive e-bikes on the market. Brands with FJ's cargo e-bikes in their lineups seem to include Trek/Electra, Specialized, Acer, Lectric, and many more. One common denominator of these bikes? The no-name cargo forks. (It's not the only tell, but Lectric has at least a couple models whose batteries, motors, controllers, and frames lead to FJ.)

I've found that all of these FJ "Bike E+" cargo bikes are the same between brands with 2 exceptions:

1) Frame differences. There are a couple different frames that FJ has in their catalog that are really common. On top of that, there are totally unique frames that were designed by big name brands. But they all get fitted with the same forks & e-drive system.

2) Trivial differences between e-drive systems of different brands. For example, HMIs & charging connectors tend to be different between bikes sold by different brands. But all else is equal. Bike brands appear to be doing the bare minimum to differentiate themselves from each other, while also discouraging consumers from sourcing compatible replacement parts from brands other than the one that sold them the bike.

As far as I can tell, these FJ "Bike E+" cargo bikes seem to use common controllers & BMS. I'm still figuring out the extent to which the controllers & BMS are locked down, but it preliminarily appears to be rather minimal (especially compared to e-drive suppliers like Bosch). Theoretically, e-drive parts from one FJ cargo bike should be "plug 'n play" fits with any other FJ cargo bike. It could be helpful to assemble a list of cargo e-bikes built by FJ's "Bike E+" division such as to provide consumers with repair/upgrade options other than "spend too much for parts from the brand whose name is on the bike" and "completely change out the HMI/contoller/BMS with 3rd party stuff".

Anyway, that was a longer reply than I wanted to make. And obviously ODM/OEMs like FJ have been active in the bike industry for a LONG time, so it's not like I've made any crazy discovery. It's just that having lists of e-bikes that are from the same OEM/ODM & share a common platform would be useful. I'll make a standalone post later on.

(If the community is able to help me assemble such a list, maybe it will help you identify groups of people who need targeted ads for your fork upgrade, if you decide to turn it into a product! )

 

[WaverlyCycles]

I don't read your posts except that you responded to my general one. I don't always agree with Chalo, but always appreciate his input.

Clearly a very knowledgeable guy, but with some strong opinions & a serious case of "grand poobah" syndrome.

 

[MylarStar]

Preface: This is only tangentially related to your post.

I think that the fork you're talking about is sourced by Fritz Jou's "Bike E+" division. "Bike E+" has been the acting ODM/OEM for MANY cargo-style, hub-drive e-bikes on the market. Brands with FJ's cargo e-bikes in their lineups seem to include Trek/Electra, Specialized, Acer, Lectric, and many more. One common denominator of these bikes? The no-name cargo forks. (It's not the only tell, but Lectric has at least a couple models whose batteries, motors, controllers, and frames lead to FJ.)

I've found that all of these FJ "Bike E+" cargo bikes are the same between brands with 2 exceptions:

1) Frame differences. There are a couple different frames that FJ has in their catalog that are really common. On top of that, there are totally unique frames that were designed by big name brands. But they all get fitted with the same forks & e-drive system.

2) Trivial differences between e-drive systems of different brands. For example, HMIs & charging connectors tend to be different between bikes sold by different brands. But all else is equal. Bike brands appear to be doing the bare minimum to differentiate themselves from each other, while also discouraging consumers from sourcing compatible replacement parts from brands other than the one that sold them the bike.

As far as I can tell, these FJ "Bike E+" cargo bikes seem to use common controllers & BMS. I'm still figuring out the extent to which the controllers & BMS are locked down, but it preliminarily appears to be rather minimal (especially compared to e-drive suppliers like Bosch). Theoretically, e-drive parts from one FJ cargo bike should be "plug 'n play" fits with any other FJ cargo bike. It could be helpful to assemble a list of cargo e-bikes built by FJ's "Bike E+" division such as to provide consumers with repair/upgrade options other than "spend too much for parts from the brand whose name is on the bike" and "completely change out the HMI/contoller/BMS with 3rd party stuff".

Anyway, that was a longer reply than I wanted to make. And obviously ODM/OEMs like FJ have been active in the bike industry for a LONG time, so it's not like I've made any crazy discovery. It's just that having lists of e-bikes that are from the same OEM/ODM & share a common platform would be useful. I'll make a standalone post later on.

(If the community is able to help me assemble such a list, maybe it will help you identify groups of people who need targeted ads for your fork upgrade, if you decide to turn it into a product! )

It’s not that distributor. I am dealing directly with the manufacturer Trama in China. This fork is used on the Ride 1Up Portola and was the only fork I could find that would work on the XP with a 110mm hub width. They where selling them really cheap at $60 and I bought a few from them, but now they are out of stock and the sense I get is they are waiting out the tariff situation before they restock, so that’s why I started buying them direct in small orders.

This fork is probably on lots of mid range or upper mid range bikes but Ride 1Up is the only one I could find selling it as a replacement part at a price that wasn’t insane, it’s not a stamped out steel piece of junk. I’m fine with it just being a heavier duty spring fork but the legs and stanchions are really nice and virtually indestructible so if someone wanted to stuff more advanced stuff in it, and assuming they could get anything real for 20” it wouldn’t be ridiculous to do.

 

[MylarStar]

A Bbso2 and 1500 watt DD hub on that would be sweet.

It’s pretty deliberately exactly how I want it with a 750w that I only need to carry one 20ah battery to get 20 miles of range (on trails) only using PAS 2 or 3 and the throttle intermittently for steep climbs or places where pedaling would result in a major strike. I ride this thing for sessions close to home, not to get anywhere, or to do anything fast. It’s not trying to be an MTB.

The power to weight ratio of lithium batteries still stinks and it’s pretty much a problem of rapidly diminishing returns to go bigger on the motor and carry more battery, have the bike weight more and really not gain any range. Having the small motor that only adds a couple of pounds would give me some high rev climbing capability and probably save me some battery over torturing my 5:1 motor at low speed.

This thing weighs 72lbs, 12lbs less than the stock bike supposedly and the times I’ve carried an extra battery I really notice it and don’t like it at all.

 

[MylarStar]

We both have ~21" equiv. wheels and there's an opportunity to stretch a DD hub well past it's continuous rating if we volt up, gear down.

Here's a simulation of OP's bike:

View attachment 374066

Same power, but on a bike with a big aerodynamic advantage:

View attachment 374072

You might say.. what about hill climbing on OP's bike?
Well, we're pushing it.. even with statorade added

View attachment 374073

OP is in Rhode island? if so.. there may be no 7% grades in the entire state.. so this scenario is totally doable... we may not even need the statorade.

Would i ride a short wheelbased, folding upright that fast? no way in hell.. i do not trust the chassis to handle that.
But yeah, we don't really need two motors unless the vehicle's task is to win at the dragstrip.

I don’t know what you’re basing a model on or what bike you’re referring to, mine doesn’t fold and it’s 48v 750W which I don’t see represented for comparison. What I’m doing is its own deliberate sport that isn’t aspiring to the standards or objectives of any other kind of riding on any other kind of bike, so performance critiques are only relevant when the next person tries to make a serious 20” enduro bike. I’m sure somebody else has done it but I haven’t seen any videos or documentation of a project.

 

[MylarStar]

I think most people would consider the Lectric XP to be a fat tire bike, even if it's technically 3" tires and not 3.7". Searching "is the Lectric XP a fat tire bike" online seems to agree.

Kind of weird to freak out over the label. Fat tires are popular in low cost bikes because they are a cheap, effective form of suspension, so again, kind of does you a disservice to fight against it if your aim is an effective low cost solution.

Larger diameter wheels are also a very effective way to a nicer ride. The larger diameter lets them roll over bumps easier, and the larger sizes are way more common at the bicycle charity I shop at. There's usually 50 700c bikes donated, maybe 10 27.5", a couple 26", and maybe one weird folding bike with 20" or 16" any given week.

I don't think you are really saving yourself any money by sticking to 20". It's really only used in cases where you want to fold the bike up and stick it in the back of a car or something. Or to get more torque for a motorcycle or dirt bike or something, but I don't consider those bicycles. If you do need a hot rod to kill yourself with, OK, or you do need a folding bike to fit in a trunk, fine - but it's strange to act like using a tiny wheel isn't sacrificing ride quality. Cargo bikes similarly have reasons for being low to the ground that don't apply to most users.

I’m not freaking out about the importance of the difference between a fat bike and an XP except that that doofus was trying to use the premise that they’re all fat bikes as a detractor to invalidate the whole pursuit of having a better fork than the POS that comes on an XP.
I hate mountain bikes. I hate the industry, I hate the culture, and I hated the feel and length of a bike with 26” wheels. Now they’re up to 30”. I like the challenge of hitting obstacles with 20” wheels and I’m not looking for the bike to make it easier for me which is pretty much the evolutionary arc of the MTB for the last 30 years. Meanwhile a stock trials bike is basically the same and they still use rim brakes. I don’t know why people feel so compelled to critique the whole premise of what I’m doing like I made some big mistake I’m wholly unaware. My post was about a fork that anyone with a cheap bike with a shitty fork can get from me if they want it. I sure as shit didn’t need Chalo opening up a meta-debate about something he obviously doesn’t give a shit about so he was only looking for a way to get around to trying to call the whole thing stupid.

 

[MylarStar]

I don't read your posts except that you responded to my general one. I don't always agree with Chalo, but always appreciate his input.

What general post? I thought I was responding to your comment on my post. Imagine if a person could just make a post about a simple mechanical component and only have people that it pertains to comment and not have the whole post be hijacked into an off topic dick swinging session. Usually people put “Help!” or “Advice Wanted” when that’s what they’re looking for.

 

[ChapinB]

20" mtn bike? Your daft! You cant mod a fork and be safe! You know you could get the same tire air space with a 29x2" tire? Rim brakes, useless!

Kidding. Love when people make make/use something out of the ordinary. More so when they make it their own. Iv made plenty of oddball things that get laughed at. Then they ride it and realize its a fun bike, not the fastest one. Guessing your oddball bike is similar. You keep on making you happy.