My 2 cents - Lubrication is done at the microscopic level. Anything that flakes off was too much to start with..... (The guys that race bikes in world class events wax their chains. I got to think they've done a ton of research.)
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Mid drive chain efficiency and longevity tips
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
I started waxing 3 years ago after seeing this video
All my useable bikes have waxed chains, that's 5 in total. 1 manual, 3 Tongsheng and 1 Fazua. 3 road, 1 commuter and the other a woefully underused MB. I've not detected wear on any of their chains and don't anticipate ever having to replace them. I have 3 on the go for each of the 9, 10 and 11 speed bikes so the re-waxing is often done in a batch, it's also handy for a short tour to take a spare. I get 2-300 miles from each waxing, less if it's unusually warm or wet weather. Noise dictates when to re-wax.
At home I use the same device that ladies use for waxing all sorts of things. On tour I have a lightweight [100gm] heater made from expanding foam, a recycled ally foil food container and a flat element via Aliexpress. I wind the chain up from each end, one side cw the other acw, they meet in the middle and I stack one coil on top of the other and place in waxer over about 2cm depth of plain ordinary and cold candle wax, don't want to create some kind of hot wax tidal wave... pass a short length of cord/wire/string or whatever through a link and drape over the side, this is to remove the chain without burning yourself.
Switch the heater on full and go away for a coffee. Come back in 20 minutes and swill the chain around for 1/2 minute or so to get fresh wax everywhere it needs to be. grab the cord and hang the chain up to cool, come back in 10 minutes.
Find the quick link that you're sure you put in a safe place but cannot remember where. Push the link halves through the free ends of the waxed chain working to remove firstly the plug of wax in the hole, then the build-up of wax on the external chain link faces. Do this thoroughly otherwise the quick link won't snap together. Quick link wear? Well, not so far, nor has one come apart in action, I try to remember to take a spare, but to date it's not been needed. Clean chains and no stubborn black muck build-up on the frame saves sooo much time. The bright silver of the chain is looks both professional and is practical for any on-the-road issues with anything in that region of the bike. Never need to curse when you realise you've not got a handy rag to clean off that black gunge from wet lube.
I often hear that one that starts 'can't be bothered with all that phaff' and smile to myself, the opposite is true, but try and persuade the terminally 'right' folks of that, their loss..
One last trick, for the home waxer, there's usually a small amount of dirty wax that settles at the bottom of the container. Every so often I remove the solid plug and scrape off the 'dirty bit' at the base leaving the clear wax to be re-used.
All my useable bikes have waxed chains, that's 5 in total. 1 manual, 3 Tongsheng and 1 Fazua. 3 road, 1 commuter and the other a woefully underused MB. I've not detected wear on any of their chains and don't anticipate ever having to replace them. I have 3 on the go for each of the 9, 10 and 11 speed bikes so the re-waxing is often done in a batch, it's also handy for a short tour to take a spare. I get 2-300 miles from each waxing, less if it's unusually warm or wet weather. Noise dictates when to re-wax.
At home I use the same device that ladies use for waxing all sorts of things. On tour I have a lightweight [100gm] heater made from expanding foam, a recycled ally foil food container and a flat element via Aliexpress. I wind the chain up from each end, one side cw the other acw, they meet in the middle and I stack one coil on top of the other and place in waxer over about 2cm depth of plain ordinary and cold candle wax, don't want to create some kind of hot wax tidal wave... pass a short length of cord/wire/string or whatever through a link and drape over the side, this is to remove the chain without burning yourself.
Switch the heater on full and go away for a coffee. Come back in 20 minutes and swill the chain around for 1/2 minute or so to get fresh wax everywhere it needs to be. grab the cord and hang the chain up to cool, come back in 10 minutes.
Find the quick link that you're sure you put in a safe place but cannot remember where. Push the link halves through the free ends of the waxed chain working to remove firstly the plug of wax in the hole, then the build-up of wax on the external chain link faces. Do this thoroughly otherwise the quick link won't snap together. Quick link wear? Well, not so far, nor has one come apart in action, I try to remember to take a spare, but to date it's not been needed. Clean chains and no stubborn black muck build-up on the frame saves sooo much time. The bright silver of the chain is looks both professional and is practical for any on-the-road issues with anything in that region of the bike. Never need to curse when you realise you've not got a handy rag to clean off that black gunge from wet lube.
I often hear that one that starts 'can't be bothered with all that phaff' and smile to myself, the opposite is true, but try and persuade the terminally 'right' folks of that, their loss..
One last trick, for the home waxer, there's usually a small amount of dirty wax that settles at the bottom of the container. Every so often I remove the solid plug and scrape off the 'dirty bit' at the base leaving the clear wax to be re-used.
raylo32
🚴♂️ Mega poster
Crazy, but your method of waxing just ONE chain takes more time than I have spent on all my chain maintenance for multiple bikes for a year! And all mine run smooth, shift perfectly an are clean... enough. For many of us that just isn't very important. It isn't us just saying we don't want to go through all that phaff as you say. We really DON'T want to go through all that phaff just to have a little cleaner chain.
Trying for less wear and longer service intervals, not really a cleaner chain. That's just a nice by-product. I'm at 280 miles on my first waxed chain. Still shifts nicer and runs quieter than chains I used to lube every 100 miles or so. I'll see how things end up on this latest road trip. I'm hoping for 500 miles between waxing but that's just something to aim for. Not sure how realistic it is.
Pic of the chain is as-is. I haven't cleaned it since it went on.
scianiac
🚴♂️ Mega poster
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2018
- Messages
- 1,037
OK, so don't, if you don't see the gains vs the effort then don't. The effort vs the reward for doing anything a certain way depends on the person and any person's reasons will be different. The clean chain for me is a side benefit, I don't both with much of the faffy steps that racers do, I do it for three reasons.
First for chain longevity, and I don't mean trying to pinch pennies and "my oiled chains always shift fine", I mean I'm pumping 5kW+ though this bike chain in harsh conditions and the additional EP wear properties of a high performance wax are important. So any added time here doesn't matter as I need the increase in performance.
Second, I would rather have a process that takes longer but I can do it less often than something I have to remember more often, I'm terrible at remembering to do things like that so I would rather have something I can do and it will last a long time even if it does takes slightly longer in total (although I honestly don't think it does).
Third, I like the science of lubricants so for me it's fun experimenting and learning how to optimize a tribological system. Much of the time spent here is fun for me as an engineer.
To be clear I'm not trying to convince you to do it, I'm just stating the logic why I do it and maybe somebody else may share my reasons and try it but if you don't find any of the benefits worth the costs then don't.
hillslayer@
🚴♂️ Mega poster
It isn't just the less wear and cleaner it's also the drivetrain works better and it lasts way longer. The whole I don't have time crew has never shifted a bike with a fresh waxed chain.
raylo32
🚴♂️ Mega poster
Not to belabor earlier parts of the discussion but I am very skeptical about wax extending chain life... and besides, chains are cheap. Also not buying longer service intervals as most recommended rewaxing intervals seem similar to re-lubing intervals. Some of you report longer but that is not standard. And re-lubing takes lie 30 seconds anyway.
raylo32
🚴♂️ Mega poster
Exactly, I don't see the benefits and I won't. But when I see another post about how hours of futzing with chains makes these huge differences, I just have to say something. Sorry, I'll leave the thread now.
There's some pretty good proof on page 1 that it has an impact.
A really good drip lube can have the same effect, but it requires regular re-application to maintain the performance.
So yeah it is a matter of whether you want your bike maintenance done in a lump sum, or the installments plan.
raylo32
🚴♂️ Mega poster
Yeah, but that's not a fair comparison. Even though some of you guys go further the recommended waxing intervals I see are like 150 miles. That is the same installment plan as lube, only with much higher payments. IDK, maybe I need to go all Chalo on you guys. 
As others have said, that's entirely up to you. Here's the thing though, I'd done it your way for 60 odd years off and on, so I know which method is superior, and, you guessed it, it's not the one you still use, but it's your time and money to do with as you please.
Speaking of time, don't confuse elapsed with the time I put in, which is probably about 10 minutes per chain to apply wax and fit. As for money others have pointed out no cassette or chain ring wear either. It's a true game changer.
Yeah, but that's not a fair comparison. Even though some of you guys go further the recommended waxing intervals I see are like 150 miles. That is the same installment plan as lube, only with much higher payments. IDK, maybe I need to go all Chalo on you guys.
Hmm, for my area, my chain gets dirty after 3 rides and black looking after 1 ride.
Wax would make a ton of sense for my dusty and dry environment. Lube picks up dust very rapidly here. I see why some like wax even if the maintenance interval is shorter than expected.
I like the idea of longer lasting chains too, especially since i have two of them on both bikes.
The idea has merits even if the efficiency gain is pretty small.
The metric that's more interesting to me than maintainance intervall or power saving is the chain lifetime.
I get 1500 - 2000 km to 0.5% using Bike7 Pro Wax on a 9 speed chain with a TSDZ2, which makes it the most expensive maintainance post on my bike.
On another forum a user claims getting reliabily up to 6000 km from a chain (unknown sp number) with a more powerful DM01, using wax and WS2.
I'm curious about people's experience here concerning chain longevity with wax.
I get 1500 - 2000 km to 0.5% using Bike7 Pro Wax on a 9 speed chain with a TSDZ2, which makes it the most expensive maintainance post on my bike.
On another forum a user claims getting reliabily up to 6000 km from a chain (unknown sp number) with a more powerful DM01, using wax and WS2.
I'm curious about people's experience here concerning chain longevity with wax.
If you want better chain/sprocket strength, 7/8 speed is where it's at. A lot of instrumented tests on pedal bikes show that the friction is lower and lifespan longer.
But overall, it seems like tungsten disulfide drip lubricants have similar chain life extending properties, so if you don't like wax, that's another way to go for long life.
See the first page for a data dump on all that.
But overall, it seems like tungsten disulfide drip lubricants have similar chain life extending properties, so if you don't like wax, that's another way to go for long life.
See the first page for a data dump on all that.
biphaeboh
⚡ Regular
As far as chain life goes, the Zero Friction dude says that the SRAM 12 speed chains are the longest lasting. Personally I like to buy the 7-8 speed chains, as they seem the best value for money. Chains are one thing but sprockets and chain wheels are another. If I spend more on long lasting chain, wax it regularly, will it extend the life of cassettes and chainwheels?
Good tip, thanks!
Is it a special cord? Shouldn't it be easily rigged?
My mistake was starting with a used chain. I've since found the cleaning of my used chain was insufficient, leaving old lube inside the chain (between pins/ rollers), which mixes with the wax and slowly work itself out, causing the excessive blacks I was seeing on the white cloth.
I've bought new chains and Silca Ultimate chain stripper, re-starting my test with straight Gulf Wax.
Edit: New chain wear checker (red one) just arrived. It'll be much quicker than a vernier caliper to check chain wear.
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I really didn't care about this when going to a waxed chain but the difference was notable and surprising to me.
I got some kind of Wolf PTFE chain wax mix from the UK and mixed it it into a mini crock pot, and it lasts and lasts.
I clean and wax chains when new and they stay clean and are very lubed.
Clean with gas then 90% alcohol and hot dip 'em. Let dry and put in a bag.
Ugh, I would recommend every mid drive ride one brings either a whole or partial chain, a chain tool and some master links.
Tried 11-speed chain on a BBS03, snapped 2 of 'em, one while it was upside down with no rider.
The uh, big back sprocket thing isn't doing for me on that one, had to rig up an 8-speed cassette.
With the 11-speed chain and sprockets, it broke both sides right in between pins.
Pretty sure it's Wolf Racing in the UK for the additive.
I clean and wax chains when new and they stay clean and are very lubed.
Clean with gas then 90% alcohol and hot dip 'em. Let dry and put in a bag.
Ugh, I would recommend every mid drive ride one brings either a whole or partial chain, a chain tool and some master links.
Tried 11-speed chain on a BBS03, snapped 2 of 'em, one while it was upside down with no rider.
The uh, big back sprocket thing isn't doing for me on that one, had to rig up an 8-speed cassette.
With the 11-speed chain and sprockets, it broke both sides right in between pins.
Pretty sure it's Wolf Racing in the UK for the additive.
Compared to other speeds of chains?
I've never seen anyone measure this. I would guess that sprocket wear gets reduced somewhat, not sure by how much.
biphaeboh
⚡ Regular
I need to go back and look at his post again. Apparently the 12 speed chains are made of a harder steel, perhaps to compensate for being thinner. I was just thinking that a clean chain and sprocket that doesn't attract grit will last longer. A worn chain will wear the sprocket more, so if the chain wears less, the sprocket will wear less as well. Maybe.
A lot of these cycling "rules of thumb" are fairly arbitrary and I wonder how many have been actually tested.
biphaeboh
⚡ Regular
I was just too lazy to find another cord, as I wasn't impressed by the results.
That's surprising. What model is it? I would think an ultra sonics cleaner will do a much better job than just immersion using the same cleaning solvent.
I binged a ton of zero friction cycling stuff and couldn't find an answer.
But in other tests, generally the lower speed count the chain, the better.
Think about how, as the chain elongates from wear, it also wants to scallop the metal on the gear. I think that if the chain is elongating at a lower rate, the scalloping should happen at a lower rate too.
biphaeboh
⚡ Regular
It is a PS-10A, 80 W, just some cheap one from amazon. I was trying to follow an online protocol and just had mediocre results. Don't remember exactly what solvent I used, I don't think its safe to use hydrocarbon based solvents like white spirits or paint thinner or whatever you call it. I was wondering about using citrus degreaser.
Maybe I should try it again.
I think the key is starting with a new chain and thoroughly degreasing it to remove the factory lube. Supposedly it can take five soakings in white spirits to remove all the factory lube. Not sure how you test that.
