Name one bike manufacturer you like that currently doesn't sell ebikes but you wish they did sell ebikes.

For me it would be Rivendell.

This because I know they would add special refinements not seen from other ebike manufacturers that would lead to a more optimized and engineered ebike.

ebike4healthandfitness said:

For me it would be Rivendell.

This because I know they would add special refinements not seen from other ebike manufacturers that would lead to a more optimized and engineered ebike.

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An ebike with rim brakes? No thanks

I do love Rivs but I can't think of a company more "anti ebike".

My vote would be Fairlight as they obsess over every detail.

Yeah, my impression is Grant Petersen (Rivendell) would probably clutch his chest at the very idea.

If you reminisce about "the days of old" and steel-framed bicycles with chrome frame highlights and silver components as I do, then I'd throw Velo Orange into the hat. Igor Shteynbuk, a co-owner of Velo Orange, seems to be somewhat understanding about e-bike conversions - at least he was when I showed him pictures of my Neutrino hacks. His customer base, possibly not so much, based on some of the hate-filled responses to this blog post.

Soma is another company that's willing to engineer new stuff and resurrect old ideas that fell out of fashion, but are still applicable.

Two small volume, established U.S.-based bicycle designers and builders that have crossed the line to the e-bike darkside are Jones and Rodriguez (build gallery). Rodriguez even designed a beefed-up e-bike derailleur and cobbled up some Integrated motor mounts (Bafang Ultra), and may be a good choice if you want a one-off custom e-bike build.

And then there are Brian Chapman's beauties, like this Raleigh International retrofit - dunno how he feels about e-bikes.

Honda. They are just getting started with introducing hybrid technology for their bikes, but they have acquired a significant amount of knowledge and are on the cutting edge when it comes to developing/integrating hybrid technology into the formula 1 cars. I think racing and space technology have the greatest influence in bringing technology developed in those areas to the consumer. Technology-wise, ebikes haven't really advanced as quickly. Maybe we'd start to see solid state batteries in our ebikes!
Edit: looks like they already announced they are developing ebikes

this is a great list.

#4 will blow your mind. (sarcasm)

I see zero bicycle companies doing a better job of building/designing ebikes than we do on the forum.

Instead i would like to see bike companies make bikes that are easier to electrify. Right now, a lot of designs make that a lot more difficult than it needs to be.

Example, most dual suspension mounting bikes used to have open triangles and straight tubes. New ones are anything but.

smitty2k1 said:

An ebike with rim brakes?

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For forks with narrow spacing like 100mm or 110mm a disc brake means a heavily dished front wheel needs to be used. That means the wheel has lower lateral stiffness and is weaker all other things equal.

A disc brake is also heavier and less aerodynamic than a rim brake.

Rim brake is plenty even for Tour De France riders. In fact, the winner of the 2020 and 2021 Tour de France Tadej Pogacar used rim brakes and didn't switch to disc until Colnago pressured him by not offering a rim brake option on the V4Rs. Once Tadej switched to disc brakes (in 2022) he stopped winning the Tour de France.

P.S. For those of you concerned braking in the wet remember you can always use Kool stop Salmon pads. For those concerned about rim wear from rim brakes remember Regen braking (ideally the variable regen type) will lower the load on the pads and rim as well. The greater the amount of Regen braking able to be used the less the rim brakes need to be used (e.g. Use regen braking to keep the bike rolling down a hill at a controllable speed instead of "riding" the rim brake to control speed down a hill).

ebike4healthandfitness said:

For forks with narrow spacing like 100mm or 110mm a disc brake means a heavily dished front wheel needs to be used. That means the wheel has lower lateral stiffness and is weaker all other things equal.

A disc brake is also heavier and less aerodynamic than a rim brake.

Rim brake is plenty even for Tour De France riders. In fact, the winner of the 2020 and 2021 Tour de France Tadej Pogacar used rim brakes and didn't switch to disc until Colnago pressured him by not offering a rim brake option on the V4Rs. Once Tadej switched to disc brakes (in 2022) he stopped winning the Tour de France.

P.S. For those of you concerned braking in the wet remember you can always use Kool stop Salmon pads. For those concerned about rim wear from rim brakes remember Regen braking (ideally the variable regen type) will lower the load on the pads and rim as well. The greater the amount of Regen braking able to be used the less the rim brakes need to be used (e.g. Use regen braking to keep the bike rolling down a hill at a controllable speed instead of "riding" the rim brake to control speed down a hill).

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Discs may be heavier but rivendell not know for lightweight bikes...

smitty2k1 said:

Discs may be heavier but rivendell not know for lightweight bikes...

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They are pretty lightweight for being utilitarian steel bikes:



With that mentioned, it is not just the weight penalty of the disc brake.....but also the higher aerodynamic drag and the lower lateral stiffness (and lower tension of the drive side spokes) of the front wheel as well.

Mongo said:

Two small volume, established U.S.-based bicycle designers and builders that have crossed the line to the e-bike darkside are Jones and Rodriguez (build gallery).

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I don't know anything about Rodriguez but I like how the Jones HD/e frame is optimized for ebikes (specifically the BBSHD) with the longer chainstays, clearance for larger chainrings as well as being built with larger diameter and thicker frame tubes compared to his regular frames.


I also like how Jones uses 150mm spacing thru axle fat forks on all his bikes even though they all use 68mm BB shell and 148mm rear spacing. 150mm spacing forks has much greater distance between spoke flanges compared to 110mm spacing forks while at the same being dish-less with disc brake.

E-HP said:

Honda. They are just getting started with introducing hybrid technology for their bikes, but they have acquired a significant amount of knowledge and are on the cutting edge when it comes to developing/integrating hybrid technology into the formula 1 cars. I think racing and space technology have the greatest influence in bringing technology developed in those areas to the consumer. Technology-wise, ebikes haven't really advanced as quickly. Maybe we'd start to see solid state batteries in our ebikes!
Edit: looks like they already announced they are developing ebikes

Honda e-MTB Concept｜Honda Booth Map | Honda JAPAN MOBILITY SHOW 2023 | Honda Global Corporate Website

This is the original article page of Honda JAPAN MOBILITY SHOW 2023 of ”Honda e-MTB Concept”.

global.honda

View attachment 353986

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This weeks's Indycar race at Mid-Ohio had a mid-season introduction of the new hybrid systems. It uses regen braking to charge up super capacitors. The capacitors provide two 4.5 second bursts per lap. They have both a button for fixed level regen and a lever for variable regen. I'd love that on an ebike, using regen to increase performance rather than just range. Range is nice, but a "nitrous" button could be fun.

A system that would charge the super capacitors first, then charge the battery would be even better.

ebike4healthandfitness said:

Why do we need full suspension bikes with more open triangles?

There are already lots of full suspension frames (Stealth Bomber, Vector Typhoon, Chinese clones, etc.) capable of massive battery packs.

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Not a good substitute.

99t4 said:

Not a good substitute.

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And why are they not a good substitute?

(Yes, I did have a good reason for deleting my post which you were still able to quote. This based on new information I gained about the Stealth B52's Q factor which I found out was a whopping 200mm despite the relatively narrow tires and 150mm single cog rear hub. This made me retract my original statement. Wide Q factors like 200mm is not good for power production (both maximal and submaximal) and aerodynamics.

Ideally Q factor should be 144mm for maximal power:


And much less than 144mm for submaximal power:


So yeah I don't think Stealth Bomber and the like are a good substitute either.

We need bikes more optimized for pedal efficiency as well as aerodynamics. Then you don't need the massive battery compartment of the Stealth B52, etc.

neptronix said:

I see zero bicycle companies doing a better job of building/designing ebikes than we do on the forum.

Instead i would like to see bike companies make bikes that are easier to electrify. Right now, a lot of designs make that a lot more difficult than it needs to be.

Example, most dual suspension mounting bikes used to have open triangles and straight tubes. New ones are anything but.

View attachment 353790

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A frame like that might have an open triangle but it is far from optimal for street usage.

Seriously considering the money people here spend on components a "designed for hub motor" ebike frame and fork is essentially low hanging fruit.

Speaking of components (controllers, batteries, motors, etc.) it would be good if a person knew, for example, the aerodynamics of the bike before they made those purchases. This because aerodynamics can vary quite a bit when factors like tire diameter, q factor, crank arm length and bottom bracket height are significantly different than usual. One example is the impact of shorter than usual crank length on rider positioning to improve aerodynamics and comfort without hurting power:


"Using shorter crank can improve:

Comfort: A shorter crank length reduces range of motion at the knee (extension and flexion), hips, and low back.

Power: A shorter crank alone will not increase your power output, but it can be used to reduce restriction through the top of the pedal stroke by opening up an impinged hip angle and/or reducing knee flexion. Going back to our definition, if we reduce restriction than power output can increase.

Aerodynamics: Going to a shorter crank will allow you to ride at a lower back angle which minimizes frontal surface area improving aerodynamics."

P.S. Another nice thing I like about short cranks is how their higher rpm potential can help cancel out the effect of a small diameter tire's ratio lowering effect on pedal drivetrain gearing.

ebike4healthandfitness said:

For me it would be Rivendell.

This because I know they would add special refinements not seen from other ebike manufacturers that would lead to a more optimized and engineered ebike.

Click to expand...

And then you would never be able to modify anything and would be stuck with what they want you to be stuck with. Kind of like this joint is becoming.

smitty2k1 said:

An ebike with rim brakes? No thanks

I do love Rivs but I can't think of a company more "anti ebike".

My vote would be Fairlight as they obsess over every detail.

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I've built two ebikes with rim brakes and one with hydro. I prefer the rim.

ebike4healthandfitness said:

I don't know anything about Rodriguez but I like how the Jones HD/e frame is optimized for ebikes (specifically the BBSHD) with the longer chainstays, clearance for larger chainrings as well as being built with larger diameter and thicker frame tubes compared to his regular frames.

I also like how Jones uses 150mm spacing thru axle fat forks on all his bikes even though they all use 68mm BB shell and 148mm rear spacing. 150mm spacing forks has much greater distance between spoke flanges compared to 110mm spacing forks while at the same being dish-less with disc brake.

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I have a Jones acoustic bike that I had modified for Rohloff and belt drive. Great bike.
I ordered a Jones HD/e , I am going to convert it.

ebike4healthandfitness said:

And why are they not a good substitute?

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Not sure what this is referring to?