4500+ Miles US Ebike Tour - August 2014

[grindz145]

[youtube]VSIldaDWeaY[/youtube]

second to last day!

 

[jkbrigman]

Troy was wondering earlier if he'd inspired anyone, he sure inspired the heck out of me. Sunday, Sept. 21, I ran a 90 mile round trip local "cross country" from my home to the town of Rocky Mount, NC. Here's my Google+ link:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/103306472219696118223/posts

On this XC I experimented with:
- Long range riding. Got 45 miles on the outbound leg with only 1200 WH of battery
- Current limiting. I let my Crystalyte have only 5 amps of current and got 13Wh/mile on outbound leg
- Opportunity Charging - what a blast!
- Pushing against headwinds - I learned a few things about power strategy!
- Making roughly 100 miles in a day, a microscopic sample of what Troy did for almost a MONTH!

Troy, it was amazing fun and just reinforces to me the magnitude of what you have accomplished. The trip gave me a laundry list of things to improve on my bike, which I'm going to do, then try a LONGER XC all in a day.

 

[edventure]

Damn, I am just seeing this now. I would have invited you over or joined you somewhere if I knew you were out here in Denver. So what did you think about one of the best bike trail systems in the world? Too bad they don't have these all across the country. Congratulations, I'm very jealous. I did a motorcycle trip around the country back in 1999 with a friend of mine, but did not break any records. Would love to try by e-bike, although now my body is a bit more beat up than back then, plus wife and kids now in the picture.

Next time your out this way PM me and maybe we can meet up for lunch or dinner. I think everyone I work with and my family is tired of me talking about bikes. Would be nice talk with someone that actually has some interest.

Great Job, let me know if you want to aim for Alaska some day

Ed

 

[amberwolf]

Sort of OT, but something for people to think about, if they're inspired to do something like this trip:


As far as inspiring people goes, I've had a number of inspirations to want to do longer trips, outside of Phoenix, but am deterred because I need to bring the dogs with me (presently that's just Tiny and Yogi, only about 230lbs of dog between them, so not quite as big an issue as it used to be with the previous four, plus I think if I have a trailer big enough I cna put both Tiny and Yogi into the same one, which I coudln't've done iwth the other batch).

The first trip I'd like to do is to go up to visit people up north of here, around Camp Verde, etc., and even farther north, maybe to at least reach the Grand Canyon and see it in person, if I had the time off to make it worth a trip.


The problem isn't so much bringing the dogs, but finding a road that's:
--good enough to go fast enough on (15-20MPH) to be worth using, without beating up the bike or the trailer/dogs
--safe enough to be able to have the dogs along, which will extremely limit my agility; it won't be possible to dodge around holes or obstacles, or dive off the road in the event of a moron speeding up from behind
--legal to use, and unlikely to be harassed for using a lane (since a shoulder won't work with a heavily-loaded trailer). (I can use a highway legally when I'm outside city limits, but finding a safe one is hard--I17 is not a good choice, and it's the main road north or south out of the valley).

I'm well enough lit that people wouldn't have a problem seeing me at night if they are paying attention (if htey're not it odesn't matter anyway). Daytime I'm big enough to be seen easily, and of course I can see them coming, too.


There's other considerations, such as dog food and people food, and water, and I'd also need to bring a small generator to recharge from, preferably capapble of actually delivering at least 2000W directly to charge while riding if necessary. I have a fair bit of battery I could use, but at best it'd get me 40 miles or so with the load I'd be pulling, evne if it was all on completely on flat roads (which it wouldn't be), if I was going 20MPH. I'm sure I could get a bit more at a lower speed, like 12-15MPH, but it'd take way too long to get anywhere. I expect I'd be pulling as much weight in supplies/etc as I would in dogs, so I'd probably be realistically moving almost 2/5 a ton, including me and the bike itself.



Anyway, those are some considerations for others thinking about such a trip.

 

[Bike_on]

Troy,

One stat I am interested in is your overall efficiency, Whrs/mile?

 

[grindz145]

I got a little local news coverage : http://www.rochesterhomepage.net/story/d/story/rochester-man-tries-to-break-guinness-world-biking/11269/Dhb6jNYd80-8AtJFVXOcRQ

That was fun

 

[grindz145]

Troy was wondering earlier if he'd inspired anyone, he sure inspired the heck out of me. Sunday, Sept. 21, I ran a 90 mile round trip local "cross country" from my home to the town of Rocky Mount, NC. Here's my Google+ link:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/103306472219696118223/posts

On this XC I experimented with:
- Long range riding. Got 45 miles on the outbound leg with only 1200 WH of battery
- Current limiting. I let my Crystalyte have only 5 amps of current and got 13Wh/mile on outbound leg
- Opportunity Charging - what a blast!
- Pushing against headwinds - I learned a few things about power strategy!
- Making roughly 100 miles in a day, a microscopic sample of what Troy did for almost a MONTH!

Troy, it was amazing fun and just reinforces to me the magnitude of what you have accomplished. The trip gave me a laundry list of things to improve on my bike, which I'm going to do, then try a LONGER XC all in a day.

Dude, an electric century is tricky with current technology, and it's still an awesome adventure! I am consistently amazed at how far 60 miles is when you take backroads. It's all about charging speed!

45 miles seems pretty low with 1.2 kWh actually, and that doesn't add up at at 13Wh... I don't follow

 

[grindz145]

Sort of OT, but something for people to think about, if they're inspired to do something like this trip:


As far as inspiring people goes, I've had a number of inspirations to want to do longer trips, outside of Phoenix, but am deterred because I need to bring the dogs with me (presently that's just Tiny and Yogi, only about 230lbs of dog between them, so not quite as big an issue as it used to be with the previous four, plus I think if I have a trailer big enough I cna put both Tiny and Yogi into the same one, which I coudln't've done iwth the other batch).

The first trip I'd like to do is to go up to visit people up north of here, around Camp Verde, etc., and even farther north, maybe to at least reach the Grand Canyon and see it in person, if I had the time off to make it worth a trip.


The problem isn't so much bringing the dogs, but finding a road that's:
--good enough to go fast enough on (15-20MPH) to be worth using, without beating up the bike or the trailer/dogs
--safe enough to be able to have the dogs along, which will extremely limit my agility; it won't be possible to dodge around holes or obstacles, or dive off the road in the event of a moron speeding up from behind
--legal to use, and unlikely to be harassed for using a lane (since a shoulder won't work with a heavily-loaded trailer). (I can use a highway legally when I'm outside city limits, but finding a safe one is hard--I17 is not a good choice, and it's the main road north or south out of the valley).

I'm well enough lit that people wouldn't have a problem seeing me at night if they are paying attention (if htey're not it odesn't matter anyway). Daytime I'm big enough to be seen easily, and of course I can see them coming, too.


There's other considerations, such as dog food and people food, and water, and I'd also need to bring a small generator to recharge from, preferably capapble of actually delivering at least 2000W directly to charge while riding if necessary. I have a fair bit of battery I could use, but at best it'd get me 40 miles or so with the load I'd be pulling, evne if it was all on completely on flat roads (which it wouldn't be), if I was going 20MPH. I'm sure I could get a bit more at a lower speed, like 12-15MPH, but it'd take way too long to get anywhere. I expect I'd be pulling as much weight in supplies/etc as I would in dogs, so I'd probably be realistically moving almost 2/5 a ton, including me and the bike itself.



Anyway, those are some considerations for others thinking about such a trip.

AW I kept thinking the same thing during the trip. I would have loved to have the pup along for the journey. I think it's reasonable to have a dog trailer do 15mph or so.

these guys have done a 6 month tour with 2 big dogs: http://cyclinggypsies.wordpress.com/dogs-on-bikes/

It is doable in theory, though I'm sure it's not easy. I can imagine its worth it though.

 

[amberwolf]

AW I kept thinking the same thing during the trip. I would have loved to have the pup along for the journey. I think it's reasonable to have a dog trailer do 15mph or so.

Depending on design and dogs in it, and how well they handle the ride, and terrain/etc., I have done up to 18-20MPH with different ones in differnet ways. Hachi was always easiest, cuz she learned riding in the DGA bike's cargo pod as a puppy, and later in teh trailer when she got too big for hte pod. Just always have to slow way down for hte turns with the trailers; none of mine are yet built specifically for low COG (Tiny's is the best of them so far, but I still wanna put hte kennel's base deck down below the axles).

Yours would probably be a lot easier than mine, given the size of the two I have now. :lol:

these guys have done a 6 month tour with 2 big dogs: http://cyclinggypsies.wordpress.com/dogs-on-bikes/

That's a useful site! Thanks (though I already discovered a lot of their tips the hard way )

It is doable in theory, though I'm sure it's not easy. I can imagine its worth it though.

And for me, it's pretty much the only way I'll be able to do this sort of thing, for at least a few reasons--most of all that neither I nor they wanna be separated very long.

 

[mlt34]

build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60329

My pup gets up to about 20 mph max, which feels fine at that speed, but the bike I use the trailer with is a 24V 250 watt, so unless I'm pedaling then I'm cruising at barely 15 mph. I had her up on one wheel once on accident, poor girl. She was amazingly fine with it. I guess she figures she'll put up with anything if the reward is the beach :lol:

 

[grindz145]

Yours would probably be a lot easier than mine, given the size of the two I have now. :lol:

these guys have done a 6 month tour with 2 big dogs: http://cyclinggypsies.wordpress.com/dogs-on-bikes/

That's a useful site! Thanks (though I already discovered a lot of their tips the hard way )

It is doable in theory, though I'm sure it's not easy. I can imagine its worth it though.

And for me, it's pretty much the only way I'll be able to do this sort of thing, for at least a few reasons--most of all that neither I nor they wanna be separated very long.

I know, I hated being away from my pup (my wife too ) She's a good midsize dog, and I always wanted to teach her to ride on the tank of my motorcycle, but I haven't been successful yet. I do have a trailer for her, but she doesn't love it..

 

[jkbrigman]

Dude, an electric century is tricky with current technology, and it's still an awesome adventure! I am consistently amazed at how far 60 miles is when you take backroads. It's all about charging speed!
45 miles seems pretty low with 1.2 kWh actually, and that doesn't add up at at 13Wh... I don't follow

Good catch Troy!

I didn't use up all the pack capacity because my charger was so wimpy (350 watts) and because Rocky Mount is "the end of urban civilization" in Eastern NC until you get to the beach. I knew I had some miles left, but I stopped when I knew it would take 2 hours to put that charge back. (I had agreed with the wife unit to limit the trip time and be back home by 7pm.)


I'm planning the next one where I'll go to Rocky Mount, then turn south for about 30 miles. Then I'll stop and charge at a Bojangles in Wilson (They all have cheddarBo biscuits down there! YAY!).

My objective is to demonstrate 75 miles range on 24S/3P (98v/15A). That will:
- be about 80% depth of discharge if I can hold 15Wh/mi or less.
- take less than 2 hours to recharge once I get the two Meanwell LED supplies onboard.
That's the sweet spot for me: 75 miles range in 3 hours, with a 2 hour recharge.

That enables 150 miles range in 3+2+3=8 hours, an "easy day".
250 miles range in 3+2+3+2+3=13 hours for a "tough day".

I've got to add the LiPo, then make some adjustments and mods to the bike. Then I'm going to go for a 150 mile, 8 hour day. I expect to miss that by 1 hour, as it's highly likely I'll have a strong headwind on the return leg. I have a strategy for fighting that, riding faster and stopping for an extra charge top-off. We'll see if it works!

JKB

 

[amberwolf]

I know, I hated being away from my pup (my wife too ) She's a good midsize dog, and I always wanted to teach her to ride on the tank of my motorcycle, but I haven't been successful yet.

Something like this? :wink:

I do have a trailer for her, but she doesn't love it..

Hachi didn't like the trailer much either, vs the cargo pod, but I didn't have a box big enough for her to ride in safely like that, even when she wasn't even six months old yet, I think it was. :lol: So we had to transition to the trailer.

For the last few minutes, I've been seriously considering the problems of building a pair of pods for hte side of the bike, one to hold Tiny and the other for Yogi...but I don't think having 230+lbs of dog on the back of the bike is any more conducive to it's handling than the trailer would be, :lol: and they'd be safer in the trailer.

 

[grindz145]

For the last few minutes, I've been seriously considering the problems of building a pair of pods for hte side of the bike, one to hold Tiny and the other for Yogi...but I don't think having 230+lbs of dog on the back of the bike is any more conducive to it's handling than the trailer would be, :lol: and they'd be safer in the trailer.

You definately have some big pups! A trailer is probably better. They make a sidecar for the xtracycle too which is pretty rad.

 

[grindz145]

That enables 150 miles range in 3+2+3=8 hours, an "easy day".
250 miles range in 3+2+3+2+3=13 hours for a "tough day".

That makes sense. 15 wh/mile is amazing for touring purposes. If you can average that consumption then you will definitely be doing good. My optimisation point for my bike is right around 20 mph and 26 wh/mile. Any more or less than it ultimately makes me slower in the day, considering my charge rate/etc. I have to run more numbers after the fact to make sure that's the case.

 

[jkbrigman]

That enables 150 miles range in 3+2+3=8 hours, an "easy day".
250 miles range in 3+2+3+2+3=13 hours for a "tough day".

That makes sense. 15 wh/mile is amazing for touring purposes. If you can average that consumption then you will definitely be doing good. My optimisation point for my bike is right around 20 mph and 26 wh/mile. Any more or less than it ultimately makes me slower in the day, considering my charge rate/etc. I have to run more numbers after the fact to make sure that's the case.

Troy, I don't mean to sound like I've got this all figured out. This was a timed run and I "failed my timeline" on this XC. I did not do 90-100 miles on the ebike even in that "3+2+3=8 hours" timeframe. I got home 2 hours later than my most pessimistic estimate of 7pm. This problem would be compounded for a 150 mile attempt. So I'm trying to improve everything just a little bit. A little more energy, a little more slippery through the wind and a little better energy management during the ride.

EDIT: I just now watched the video you posted (below). I love how your family, friends and neighbors celebrated your achievement and your return! I really liked the change of music and video method for the ride home - more mellow, more relaxed, more "It's all OK now..." CONGRATULATIONS TROY! You achieved for ALL of us ebikers and are totally inspiring!

 

[grindz145]

[youtube]ROr5nU-uoq0[/youtube]

This is a fun one There will be at least one more in there series to capture the aftermath and stuff

 

[Eclectic]

Troy,

First off, Congrats!

I have several questions. I’ll ask the first one today; Rolling Stock:

I see you used Hookworm tires. I also see you got several flats.

How many flats did you get?

Any idea what caused the flats?

How many tires did you use?

How many tubes?

How many spares did you carry?

With all that weight and gear on your bike, how did you do repairs?

What kind of pump did you use?

When it comes to wheels, tires, tubes etc. – What was the smartest thing you did and what would you change if you did it again?

 

[maxwell92036]

I think touring with an E-bike is an awesome way to go. There are certainly a lot of different ways to skin the cat on how you want to tour, how fast you want to go, how much power and battery capacity you want and how much your rig is going to ultimately weigh.
I have a background of bikepack racing and touring. I did the 400 mile Stagecoach race, the 2800 mile Tour Divide Race and the 300 mile AZT Race which I kept going and did around 650 miles. I also did a tour to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, a trip of around 650 miles. A lot can be learned from the bikepack touring community regarding gear, packing, equipment for your bike, saddles, lighting etc.
The added complexity and weight of an Electric bike touring rig certainly complicates the equation.
Recently I have gotten into E-bike touring and my longest trip to date was 375 miles in 2.5 days. With my setup I can average close to 20MPH and with two 48 volt 15 amp hour batteries I can get a range of 60 to 70 miles without going too deep into the batteries. I carry two 3 AMP chargers and recharge whenever I make a stop and of course at night. With this system I can easily average 100 miles to 150 miles per day. The big factor of course is recharging but in my experience most places are usually willing to let you recharge if you tell them what you are doing and ask politely. I would like to upgrade to two 5 amp chargers to decrease charging time but what I have now works out well.
My setup is a standard mountain bike using my Wattwagon electric assist bicycle trailer. For me the trick is to keep the weight of the Wattwagon below the point where it becomes overloaded. With two batteries and chargers, I can add about an extra 15 pounds of gear to the trailer. The rest of the gear goes on my bike with various bags like a seatbag, front roll and various other bags like a gastank and feedbags. I can also carry a beach chair with me for hanging out!
I like using the Wattwagon because it allows me to unhook my mountain bike to go on regular rides without assist.
My next trip planned is to Death Valley and back which will be a total distance of around 800 miles.

 

[beast775]

Just got through your post in a few days,thank you for spending all the time to give us a great look into travelling with you cheers! ya kinda reminded me of a great tour guide les stroud :lol: a bit.

 

[grindz145]

Final stats from the trip, finally got everything submitted/etc


120kWh used total. That's not even 2 charges of a tesla

Even at $0.14/kWh that's over 4300 miles with well under $20 in electricity

 

[maxwell92036]

Great stats sheet. On your watt hours per mile was that figure from the cycle analyst or from how much current you actually pulled from the wall plug? I don't have a cycle analyst but I hook up my watt meter to give me my watt hours per mile and it typically runs around 30 watt hours per mile. This is with my direct drive Wattwagon.

E-bike touring is a great time. I have tons of experience bikepacking without a motor but E-bike touring has it's own charm.

I have been thinking of putting up a facebook page dedicated to E-bicycle touring.

 

[grindz145]

Great stats sheet. On your watt hours per mile was that figure from the cycle analyst or from how much current you actually pulled from the wall plug? I don't have a cycle analyst but I hook up my watt meter to give me my watt hours per mile and it typically runs around 30 watt hours per mile. This is with my direct drive Wattwagon.

E-bike touring is a great time. I have tons of experience bikepacking without a motor but E-bike touring has it's own charm.

I have been thinking of putting up a facebook page dedicated to E-bicycle touring.

That's a good point. These stats are only energy consumed via the CA. It doesn't take power supply inefficiencies into account. Even if I had another 20% loss in the chargers, it's still less than 20 bucks in electricity

 

[mlt34]

120Wh used total. That's not even 2 charges of a tesla

That's not even 2 charges of a Macbook :lol:

 

[grindz145]

120Wh used total. That's not even 2 charges of a tesla

That's not even 2 charges of a Macbook :lol:

HAHA! fuuuuuuu... Sorry, I fixed that. I meant 120kWh. What's an order of magnitude between friends