Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[Offroader]

Here is the image I drew up about connecting my 6s packs into the 4s BMS.

You can see some wires are joined together between different cells. Without doing the math here, I can imagine all sorts of stuff would happen if you switch around the way the packs are wired in a series, while having the JST connectors wired together like this.

This is partly the reason I never bothered using the BMS, the other part was I just didn't want the downtime on my bike of having to wire this when my cells stayed in balance.

 

[ridethelightning]

double

 

[ridethelightning]

@ ziltoid
yep, i had EXACT same issue with by 22s pack. evey 4th cell gone high and wouldnt come down.
the FIX- change the ballencing regime in bms>cell voltage config.

i had been charging to max 4.11v and ballencing to 4.10v

i fixed it by coming back from a ride with like 3.8v/cell min, then, without charging, ballencing down to 3.79v/cell and keep changing the ballencing voltage down to bring them into line as needed.

the problem is from the bms not being able to drop some cells once they get too far out of range or something.

@ dodgy capacity meter, i also have issues with that. i just go on the pack resting voltage now to give me some indication of where its at
definately a firmware fix priority.

 

[ziltoid81]

I used the wiring scheme from adaptto, but i will not say that im "error free".

But if you solder the balancing wires wrong you create a short.......this would not run for 1800km.

Also the pack was balanced perfectly after the first charge.
I had an issue with one cell bank, but i balanced it manually and never got this problem again.
At least with this bank and it wasnt this worse like now.

But then, over time, this pattern shows up, every first cell of a board.

I dont want to say its the bms for 100%, but i really dont know where to start from here.

Due to the low balancing current it takes ages to trial and error, i need the bike every day.

 

[ridethelightning]

I used the wiring scheme from adaptto, but i will not say that im "error free".

But if you solder the balancing wires wrong you create a short.......this would not run for 1800km.

Also the pack was balanced perfectly after the first charge.
I had an issue with one cell bank, but i balanced it manually and never got this problem again.
At least with this bank and it wasnt this worse like now.

But then, over time, this pattern shows up, every first cell of a board.

I dont want to say its the bms for 100%, but i really dont know where to start from here.

Due to the low balancing current it takes ages to trial and error, i need the bike every day.

here is where i had the bms issue-
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61183&hilit=bms+problem&start=2300#p1112979

it might also help to charge at very low charge rate to get the cells back in ballence.

 

[Offroader]

Thats odd with the BMS. Why isn't everyone having this same issue?

Kind of wondering if I'll have this issue when I finally hook my BMS up with the new pack I am going to build.

 

[ccmdr]

Both Mini-E's with BMS have that exact same cell anomaly. Using S26P1 A123 20ah with one and S17P2 Headway 40152S. Fourth bank rising from 3.65v to 3.75+v even with voltage restriction. I've had to lower the charge voltage to 3.60v and set the balance voltage to 3.60v too. This way only one of the cells in the 4th bank spikes temporarily to 3.60+v then settles back down.

Charging at 0.5C is slightly better than 0.8C. Charge rate seems to effect the overall pack balance much more than any effect I've observed with a lower voltage on the fourth bank.

Firmware v1-RC9g on both Mini-E's.

 

[ridethelightning]

interesting.
my bms problem in the link above developed over several months.
the cells were out by ~0.15 volts and slowly getting worse when i finally sorted it.

its as though the balancing could not happen when the cells were near fully charged, ~4.1+v
and could only be balanced down when they were less charged at around 3.7-8volts.

since i fixed it, i have not had the issue return for several months now, and cells remain at ~ 0.010 - 0.008volts difference now.

 

[ziltoid81]

Thanks for the effort so far.
So its not only me with this problem.
This was my biggest concern, i dont want to blame the BMS and its my fault.

The other problem......
I changed the Ah in the BMS menu from 47.5(real value for my pack) to 30 and left the wh empty/zero.
Now i get a decrease in the percentage of my battery gauge and......
The BMS calculates the wh, i guess at least when you ride.
Now, after one ride the wh in the BMS menu shows 250 instead of 0.
But in the manual they say you need to fill in both values.......im confused.
I will increase the Ah setting in 5Ah steps before each ride to trial and error.

 

[HamsterPower]

Surprised nobody's asked this yet. Do we have amp and ohm numbers for the three controllers (max-e, midi-e, and mini-e) so we can model each in the ebikes.ca motor simulator?

 

[Offroader]

Anyone know why the peak wattage reads higher than what I have my Max-E battery amps set for?

My battery amps is set at 85 and my battery voltage is 74 volts highest after charge. This should limit me to a peak wattage of 6.3K

But my Max-E statistics screen shows my max wattage is 7.5K.

Did I draw over 85 battery amps?

 

[ridethelightning]

if its older firmware particularly, i think the current limiting is VERY "loose"
you could try to flash to latest fw but you might find the bike doesnt have that zing your used to :lol:

 

[Xantho]

if its older firmware particularly, i think the current limiting is VERY "loose"
you could try to flash to latest fw but you might find the bike doesnt have that zing your used to :lol:

This "VERY loose" current limliting is really something that needs some insider knowhow.

I have 2 max e controllers. One with the green side covers (bought a few month ago) and one of the actual (higher power) max e with black side covers.
The green one with its original firmware (don`t know which) was capable of >350A (forgot exact value) phase current and worked with my 5k Domino throttle. But I wanted the password firmware so I changed. This is a v1-RC9G_4.3 version. Then my throttle didn`t work anymore. Then I changed to the older (famous) version v1-RC7b. This results in getting only a blank white screen (button pressing changes nothing). Then I changed back to the v1-RC9G_4.3 version and changed the throttle to a hall sensor throttle. The possible phase current in power profiles is 368A. Finally it works.
My second max e with black side covers is capable for higher power (14kW). I bought it because I really thought my first one was defect. Now having it, I want to use it. So I changed controllers in my bike. Changed to actual password firmware: Only Hall sensor throttle works. But what really is getting on my nerves that now the maximum possible phase current is 306A. I rode the bike yesterday and must definetely say: This is not enough fun.
So people be aware how big the risk is changing firmwares. You may end in less power with the impossibility to change back.
I also had these huge voltage drops of 8V (3V normal). This I think today was related to bad autodetection.

During all these crazy and frustrating experiences Alex always helped me so much. You never know if you have a good dealer before you run into problems. Adaptto max e is still far the best ebike controller and you know where to buy it.

 

[Hexa]

Hello Guys of ES,
this is my first post here
I read the entire thread in think that i am well prepared to set up my next project with an Cro v2, an Max-e and a Vector Frame.
I just want to know what are the differences between the old and the new Max-e.
Is it only the Key option or are there any other hardware changes between the two versions?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Offroader]

if its older firmware particularly, i think the current limiting is VERY "loose"
you could try to flash to latest fw but you might find the bike doesnt have that zing your used to :lol:

This "VERY loose" current limliting is really something that needs some insider knowhow.

I have 2 max e controllers. One with the green side covers (bought a few month ago) and one of the actual (higher power) max e with black side covers.
The green one with its original firmware (don`t know which) was capable of >350A (forgot exact value) phase current and worked with my 5k Domino throttle. But I wanted the password firmware so I changed. This is a v1-RC9G_4.3 version. Then my throttle didn`t work anymore. Then I changed to the older (famous) version v1-RC7b. This results in getting only a blank white screen (button pressing changes nothing). Then I changed back to the v1-RC9G_4.3 version and changed the throttle to a hall sensor throttle. The possible phase current in power profiles is 368A. Finally it works.
My second max e with black side covers is capable for higher power (14kW). I bought it because I really thought my first one was defect. Now having it, I want to use it. So I changed controllers in my bike. Changed to actual password firmware: Only Hall sensor throttle works. But what really is getting on my nerves that now the maximum possible phase current is 306A. I rode the bike yesterday and must definetely say: This is not enough fun.
So people be aware how big the risk is changing firmwares. You may end in less power with the impossibility to change back.
I also had these huge voltage drops of 8V (3V normal). This I think today was related to bad autodetection.

During all these crazy and frustrating experiences Alex always helped me so much. You never know if you have a good dealer before you run into problems. Adaptto max e is still far the best ebike controller and you know where to buy it.

Have you considered using the unlocked firmware? Has anyone here actually ever used it?

I'm past my warranty now so I don't see any reason why I shouldn't switch to the unlocked. These controllers can obviously handle more than the 350 phase amps they are limited to. Has anyone yet damaged their controller because of the 350 amps limitation?

The only worry I have about the unlocked is I don't know if it is as updated as the locked firmware. I don't know if the unlocked is just the locked firmware, but they change a few values to allow you to change things.

I don't want any issues by switching to unlocked, and then like you say not be able to change back.

 

[Xantho]

if its older firmware particularly, i think the current limiting is VERY "loose"
you could try to flash to latest fw but you might find the bike doesnt have that zing your used to :lol:

Have you considered using the unlocked firmware? Has anyone here actually ever used it?

I'm past my warranty now so I don't see any reason why I shouldn't switch to the unlocked. These controllers can obviously handle more than the 350 phase amps they are limited to. Has anyone yet damaged their controller because of the 350 amps limitation?

The only worry I have about the unlocked is I don't know if it is as updated as the locked firmware. I don't know if the unlocked is just the locked firmware, but they change a few values to allow you to change things.

I don't want any issues by switching to unlocked, and then like you say not be able to change back.

My first thought was to use the unlocked version even from the beginning because I was used to these Infineon controllers where modding is essentiell.
But some calculations changed my mind.
The max e with green side plates is capable of 184A battery and 368A phase current with actual v1-RC9G_4.3 locked firmware. Battery voltage for these phase currents is recommended 85V max.
When I fill up my Raptor frame with the Lipos I use I get 160A max as a realistic value for longlife fun.
So I have a battery power of 13.6kW.
The Adaptto possible phase currents are 368A. This is the peak of this sinusoidal current so the RMS value is 260A.
My Cro V3 9kV has 65mOhm windings. This would result in pure ohmic motor losses of 13,2kW. Then I would have 400W for the losses in max e, connectors, cables, motor windings additional losses because of heating up.
So the Adaptto max e beats my battery already in the locked version --> no need to unlock.

 

[madin88]

The Adaptto possible phase currents are 368A. This is the peak of this sinusoidal current so the RMS value is 260A.

are you sure that the phase amp values you set on adaptto are peak?
i always thought they are already RMS, but i never have done any measurements or better say i don't have the required equipment to do such..

 

[kenkad]

I have asked Allex about the maximum phase amp setting that can be set on the MiniE. My issue is that for a student project, I want the students to use a DC power supply 75V/40A to test the mechanical parts of a trike drive system with a RV100Pro motor. I do not want to have the students work with batteries at this point for safety reasons. I have to be sure that the MiniE can be set so it does not exceed the CC setting of the power supply (lets say 20A) from a stop condition (0 RPM). Allex asked me to email olegk@adaptto.ru with this request and it have been more than 10 days and I have not gotten any response. Makes me a bit suspicious that this setting may not be quite satisfactory to use. Anyone else have any experience with this issue? All the testing is done on a roller fixture so we can control the load on the drive wheel.

 

[Offroader]

My first thought was to use the unlocked version even from the beginning because I was used to these Infineon controllers where modding is essentiell.
But some calculations changed my mind.
The max e with green side plates is capable of 184A battery and 368A phase current with actual v1-RC9G_4.3 locked firmware. Battery voltage for these phase currents is recommended 85V max.
When I fill up my Raptor frame with the Lipos I use I get 160A max as a realistic value for longlife fun.
So I have a battery power of 13.6kW.
The Adaptto possible phase currents are 368A. This is the peak of this sinusoidal current so the RMS value is 260A.
My Cro V3 9kV has 65mOhm windings. This would result in pure ohmic motor losses of 13,2kW. Then I would have 400W for the losses in max e, connectors, cables, motor windings additional losses because of heating up.
So the Adaptto max e beats my battery already in the locked version --> no need to unlock.

I'm a little lost. The Max-E limits phase amps at 368. I thought this was low because I used to run my Lyen controller, which I believe is a modified infinion, at unlimited phase amps for 10 seconds. I heard this could have put my phase amps in the 500+ range. I haven't used that controller in a long time and am running a lot more battery amps in my Max-e, but i do remember the Lyen had a lot more power off the start where phase amps matter.

Why are you saying the max-e beats out your battery when you can turn those phase amps up to say 450 or 500 and get much more acceleration? You also mentioned that the new firmware is limiting your phase amps at 306 for one of your controllers.

 

[Scott]

@Scott I'd think Adaptto would have the screen in your 32s BMS picture as a summary screen. One could easily fit a LOT more info in on that screen by removing white space (e.g. white lines between the bars). That'd mean it'd be good for a quick look but you'd have to go elsewhere for details (which it appears you already can).

That's pretty much exactly what I said but I was told that the adaptto controller doesn't have enough memory to support more bars. I hope they update it in the future.

 

[HamsterPower]

@Scott I'd think Adaptto would have the screen in your 32s BMS picture as a summary screen. One could easily fit a LOT more info in on that screen by removing white space (e.g. white lines between the bars). That'd mean it'd be good for a quick look but you'd have to go elsewhere for details (which it appears you already can).

That's pretty much exactly what I said but I was told that the adaptto controller doesn't have enough memory to support more bars. I hope they update it in the future.

Oh, that's screwed- they've shot themselves in the foot already.

That means that they are trying to improve this but are having to optimize just to get the headroom to be able to do it. An ideal best practice for both FPGA and not, they'd have given themselves plenty of headroom for tons of garbage code so they can get the functionality there and do the cleanup later. The connectors on the SD slot were not designed to endure the physical rigors of being on the handlebars of a mountain bike such that it'd be a reliable replacement for RAM. So requiring the SD card to always be populated such that they can offload code/memory cache/swap to it either isn't an option or a good one. Using the SD for bootloading and data dumps is OK but anything beyond that is just asking for issues.

Fairly safe to say that the past and current controllers will always be a tradeoff somewhere between buggy and quirky with fairly limited chances of not being obsolete.

I'm not comfortable with running a critical yet alpha display/controller/BMS combination on my commuter so that right there just postponed or killed my Adaptto purchasing decision. :x

 

[ccmdr]

kenkad - I just did WOT with Mini-E set at 50 amps Battery and 50 phase Amps and had a 67A 'peak' indication with no load. I've commented on this before trying to restrict Wh usage by setting 20Amps battery, however it always goes up to 23-25A.

 

[Scott]

I'm not comfortable with running a critical yet alpha display/controller/BMS combination on my commuter so that right there just postponed or killed my Adaptto purchasing decision.

Hi HamsterPower,

I wasn't trying to bash Adaptto at all, there is just a few things they need to work on. If a user is only using one board per group of cells, then only ~27 bars on the graph are really needed, otherwise the voltage would kill the controller. However I was using the Adaptto just as a BMS.

In my opinion I would strongly recommend going with an Adaptto controller. The BMS integration separates it from all other controllers. Since you can charge though the controller, that also means that the charger and BMS work with each other as well. If you plan to use LiPO I would say that this is the best option.

If I had the choice again I wouldn't buy any other controller.

 

[HamsterPower]

I'm not comfortable with running a critical yet alpha display/controller/BMS combination on my commuter so that right there just postponed or killed my Adaptto purchasing decision.

Hi HamsterPower,

I wasn't trying to bash Adaptto at all, there is just a few things they need to work on. If a user is only using one board per group of cells, then only ~27 bars on the graph are really needed, otherwise the voltage would kill the controller. However I was using the Adaptto just as a BMS.

In my opinion I would strongly recommend going with an Adaptto controller. The BMS integration separates it from all other controllers. Since you can charge though the controller, that also means that the charger and BMS work with each other as well. If you plan to use LiPO I would say that this is the best option.

If I had the choice again I wouldn't buy any other controller.

Scott, I know you weren't trying to bash. And my comment wasn't directed towards the BMS screen but rather the whole Adaptto architecture and their nearsighted (if not poor/cheap) design choices. This kind of problem creates a marketing quandary so I do hope they announce a new version soon.

 

[madin88]

Yes it is a bit annoying that there is no "final" firmware and that it still has a few bugs, but Guys, this is the first Version and it must be said that these russia guys have developed and released a unique all in one controller-unit with much better features as all electronic for e-bikes had before and every kind of electornic and software gets better / revised step by step.
Adaptto has improved the power stage and now they are working hard on total new controllers (or brain board?).
I'm really excited when they will be released