Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[OV_]

How long it will take to Adaptto to answer contact? Any experience? It's been almost two weeks... Maybe guys are busy, but wouldn't take long to type something to get process going.

 

[Offroader]

Hello everyone,

I decided to capacity test my bike battery and see how much capacity it had left after 11 months of use and also sitting many months in my hot garage.
The test dates were about 11 months apart. I usually try and run the cycle between 82.2 volts to 66.0 volts, but it is hard to stop exactly at a certain voltage, but the max-e is very accurate and should be close enough.

The weather was about 90F both days, battery temp ranged from about 35C to 50C.
July 8th 2016 (2774 watt hours capacity)
May 19th 2017 (2731 watt hours capacity)

battery is a 20s 14p, 280 Sanyo 3500MAH 18650GA cells, ~3200 watt hour battery capacity (3.2 KW)

Surprisingly the battery has lost very little capacity after 11 months and 18 full cycles based off the max-e statistics, I'm not sure how full cycles are calculated but I usually only partially charge my bike because my pack is so large at 3.2KW and I never use the full capacity, more like half of it. It is estimated I lost about 1% to 1.5% capacity in a year. I think this is pretty good, especially considering I don't have my cells connected in parallel and have not balanced them yet. At this rate my battery should last many years.

My question is I noticed the max-e battery ohms has increased from 43 to 49. Is this a bad sign of battery decay?

In the pictures below the top is the July 2016 stats, and the bottom is the May 2017 Stats.

 

[Doctorbass]

Some people asked me to post pics of teh capacitor mod that i have made on my modified Adaptto so here they are:

These caps help using higher unlocked power and reduce chance of fet to blow. this is even more important wehen you run 20+s and use high kv ( low inductance motor)

The caps i added have Very low ESR as you can see on the last images. The total miliohm i get at the battery lead fo the controller is now as low as 5 miliohms but i had 74 !!





Here is the original post: from MAY 2015

Personally i think that if you comply to all these following conditions you might adjust your controller to up to 160A batt current, just like Allex did.

Here are these conditions i would suggest:

-Not running a motor with higher kv than 12
-Not use more than 22s
-have the controller with perfect fine tuning
-never go WOT at full charged battery unless it's a 18s or 20s, until it reach about 84V.. the you can go WOT
-Have the shortest phase wires as possible
-Have powerfull enough battery without too much sag ( mine are 22s and have 44 miliohm at 50% SOC at ambient
-Inside the Adaptto, Install QUALITY ceramic caps at 4 locations in the controler and upgrade the actual electrolytic caps for low ESR electrolitic caps. ( i have now as low as 5 miliohm ESR at the batt terminal when no batt is connected. I have bought and installed 5x parallel 1uF 250V XR7 caps on the BAtt rail near each of the 3 phases and also added 7 of them right where the batt wires connect to the pcb. (This is recommanded in the Adaptto website):

You can find it at this adress http://adaptto.com/Support/ search for: The differences between LOCKED and UNLOCKED firmware versions:


Quote:
There are voltage surges when the controller is operated at high phase currents (e.g. the higher the phase current the larger are the voltage surges – approximately 10V for each 100A of phase current for Max-E) which can blow up the power contour of the controller. It is highly recommendable in terms of in-feed to solder the capacitance of at least 6mF with a low internal resistance and also 0,01mF of ceramic/film capacitors low-esr.


Personally i say burst of 180A during short time on my adaptto.. but the battery voltage was low and i did not got the max possible kW.


Today during a ride i got 16kW burst recorded on my Adaptto MAX-E after i have played with the traction LS current and have set it to 160A

My adaptto was still in the LOCKED firmeware :wink:

was 12.5kW

then was 14.8kW

and finally was 16kW

Look like my 5403 can sustain these burst no prob !!.. still no need to finish the liquid cooling project.. unless i make the pike peak hill climb... lol

I like Ebike tuning !!!

end of 2015 post

now back in 2017 !

 

[Offroader]

doctorbass: does this allow you to increase the phase amps any? Did you increase yours after you unlocked your controller?

 

[Doctorbass]

doctorbass: does this allow you to increase the phase amps any? Did you increase yours after you unlocked your controller?

yes of course!

I tested it today at 365A phase on a 5T motor.. the more "T" you have the "easier" phase amp are on the controller

Doc

 

[ridethelightning]

Hey doc. thanks heaps for posting that.
its exactly what I was interested to do, but was not sure how to tackle it. the soldering in if new caps looks not that easy, without pulling and replacing all the fets too, isnt that so?
why did you only replace some of the larger caps, and leave some stock ones??

i was trying to swap the stock 8awg phase cables wth 6awg in the controller but even my 100w soldering iron just coldnt hack it :lol:
too much heat being drawn away by the copper rails. in the end i just left them, and made the cables from the controller plug to motor, including inside the motor, 6awg.

 

[GmagNeato]

Hey gang hope all is well.

It's been quite a while since I was on. I've put almost 3000 miles on my bike with no real issues to speak of.. until now.

I got caught in a pretty bad rain shower yesterday on the way to work. Had no choice but to press on and try to make it there. After a couple of miles, the motor brought me to a shuddering stop. The screen displays "Protect" when I attempt to apply throttle, and nothing happens. From that point on, the wheel drags constantly as if slight regen is applied , (heavy cogging). It does this even when I turn the controller off. Only if I disconnect one of the phase wires does the cogging stop and the motor turn freely.

Today I opened everything up except the motor, to make sure all was dry and check connections etc. I can't detect any issues in the wiring. The halls appear to be working and moving in sequence on the display H1-H6. I tried a System Reset and then an autodetect. After a few moments, I'm getting Halls e2 error message and it stops. Also, if I attempt to charge the bike through the coil, it doesn't detect a voltage and won't charge. Anyone run across similar symptoms/issues and/or have an idea what could be wrong? What else could I test to try and determine if it's a controller or motor issue? I only have a few months left on the warranty, so if it's the controller I'll need to get it sent out asap.

Greatly appreciate any help you could offer!

 

[icherouveim]

Hey gang hope all is well.

It's been quite a while since I was on. I've put almost 3000 miles on my bike with no real issues to speak of.. until now.

I got caught in a pretty bad rain shower yesterday on the way to work. Had no choice but to press on and try to make it there. After a couple of miles, the motor brought me to a shuddering stop. The screen displays "Protect" when I attempt to apply throttle, and nothing happens. From that point on, the wheel drags constantly as if slight regen is applied , (heavy cogging). It does this even when I turn the controller off. Only if I disconnect one of the phase wires does the cogging stop and the motor turn freely.

Today I opened everything up except the motor, to make sure all was dry and check connections etc. I can't detect any issues in the wiring. The halls appear to be working and moving in sequence on the display H1-H6. I tried a System Reset and then an autodetect. After a few moments, I'm getting Halls e2 error message and it stops. Also, if I attempt to charge the bike through the coil, it doesn't detect a voltage and won't charge. Anyone run across similar symptoms/issues and/or have an idea what could be wrong? What else could I test to try and determine if it's a controller or motor issue? I only have a few months left on the warranty, so if it's the controller I'll need to get it sent out asap.

Greatly appreciate any help you could offer!

I think your controller is dead because you said when you disconnect it the motor spins fine.

 

[DasDouble]

Hey gang hope all is well.

It's been quite a while since I was on. I've put almost 3000 miles on my bike with no real issues to speak of.. until now.

I got caught in a pretty bad rain shower yesterday on the way to work. Had no choice but to press on and try to make it there. After a couple of miles, the motor brought me to a shuddering stop. The screen displays "Protect" when I attempt to apply throttle, and nothing happens. From that point on, the wheel drags constantly as if slight regen is applied , (heavy cogging). It does this even when I turn the controller off. Only if I disconnect one of the phase wires does the cogging stop and the motor turn freely.

Today I opened everything up except the motor, to make sure all was dry and check connections etc. I can't detect any issues in the wiring. The halls appear to be working and moving in sequence on the display H1-H6. I tried a System Reset and then an autodetect. After a few moments, I'm getting Halls e2 error message and it stops. Also, if I attempt to charge the bike through the coil, it doesn't detect a voltage and won't charge. Anyone run across similar symptoms/issues and/or have an idea what could be wrong? What else could I test to try and determine if it's a controller or motor issue? I only have a few months left on the warranty, so if it's the controller I'll need to get it sent out asap.

Greatly appreciate any help you could offer!

Dont waste your time. Send it to russia for repair. And use the delivery service they suggestion to use. Dont even think of that another service could be better. I have done that and DHL took 2 weeks extra, compared to EMS or whatever service it has been to deliver that damm controller from Germany to russia. Protection meens dead controller. Dot. Dont even think about repairing it by yourself except you know exactly what to do and or how to repair it and or what could be wrong with it. Just wasted amount of time.

Wish you all the best and have a great waiting time.. I know that feeling :| :?

 

[spektrolyte]

Hey everyone,

Today I have a problem with my Adaptto Max-E setup.

I charged my bike this morning and went for a ride, no problems at all. I came back and put it on charge just like I did yesterday. However, the rack PSU that feeds power to the coil started to overheat and went into protect mode. It does not do this with only the coil connected, this happens when I add the bike into the circuit. The charging display page shows 'no charge voltage' and when I try to run the bike with the 63% remaining battery the motor does not drive forward, instead just shudders.

Unlike the post above there is no error. The BMS shows the cells are all OK and balancing just like normal, it powers on and goes into ECO mode as normal too. I checked all the wiring, particularly the junction between +ve charge lead and motor phase lead. No visible problems with any connections.

Where do I start testing?

 

[ridethelightning]

could it be a short across the phases in the motor or where the phases exit the motor?
cheap teflon insulation is prone to cracking....

 

[Doctorbass]

IMPORTANT INFO REGARDING THE ADAPTTO VOLTAGE ANC CURRENT

Direct from the Adaptto Engineer:


September 27, 2015 at 13:13"

1. mosfet (in factory) tested for breakdown at 115v. (He not meant the rating of the mosfet as well ! Doc)
2. Declared avalanche (breakdown) current for mosfets: 180A. The only requirement that mosfet core did not local overheat during this spikes. ( there is 3 per phase. Doc)

80-82V @ 400A i think is optimal. ( He meant Phase amp as well. Doc)
Also, use new revision of controller power module. Old modules have some problems at high spikes . According to tests, new modules have clean gate driver signals up to 5000A in peak.

The most important that there was a stable and clean signal from rotor position sensors. ( He meant Hall sensor. Doc)
If a signal to be distorted, on the high-current modes protection can not work. we observed it, for example on 3000w cromotor halls with a bent axis and a variable gap between a rotor and the stator. Hall sensors on high currents received an incorrect magnetic field.

Doc

 

[icherouveim]

Hey everyone,

Today I have a problem with my Adaptto Max-E setup.

I charged my bike this morning and went for a ride, no problems at all. I came back and put it on charge just like I did yesterday. However, the rack PSU that feeds power to the coil started to overheat and went into protect mode. It does not do this with only the coil connected, this happens when I add the bike into the circuit. The charging display page shows 'no charge voltage' and when I try to run the bike with the 63% remaining battery the motor does not drive forward, instead just shudders.

Unlike the post above there is no error. The BMS shows the cells are all OK and balancing just like normal, it powers on and goes into ECO mode as normal too. I checked all the wiring, particularly the junction between +ve charge lead and motor phase lead. No visible problems with any connections.

Where do I start testing?

Good morning,

If you have noises like the following video then something should be wrong with your phase wires.
sometimes the problem is with the connection between motor's phase wires and expansion cable.
Make sure to solder the phase wires with the expansion cable if you use one.

https://youtu.be/es_B6IUdoiw

 

[CLIFFSIDE]

How do I choose between a 30A & 70A adaptto charging coil? Do the higher amps refer to faster charge time?

 

[icherouveim]

How do I choose between a 30A & 70A adaptto charging coil? Do the higher amps refer to faster charge time?

Good morning!

If you are a patient person you buy the 30A coil, if you like to do everything super fast in life and you don't care about your battery life then you go for the big one!

 

[ridethelightning]

30A coil? dont even go there...
they get really hot at even low currents. just get the big one and be done with it :wink:

 

[Offroader]

I actually bought both the 30A and the 70A. My reasoning was they were so cheap that maybe it would be wise to have a spare. What were they like $30 dollars or something.

The other reason was if I decided to keep a charger on your bike or needed to carry a charger with me, then the smaller one would be more compact.

I never touched the 30A one yet..

 

[spektrolyte]

Good morning,

If you have noises like the following video then something should be wrong with your phase wires.
sometimes the problem is with the connection between motor's phase wires and expansion cable.
Make sure to solder the phase wires with the expansion cable if you use one.

https://youtu.be/es_B6IUdoiw

Yes it appears to be a phase wire problem as it has those symptoms, but on another close inspection nothing is disturbed. There was no impact or power failure whilst riding, the bike was running fine when I switched it off and put it on charge. I can't see anything wrong anywhere. Does anyone know some figures that I could measure on the Cromotor V3 (maybe something like resistance between the phase wires) that could help me narrow down the problem? The only thing I can think of is that the coil is 30A and the charger has a max output of 37A, but having said that I never saw the charging draw anywhere near 30A (more like 15-20A) and it charged ok 3 times before this fault developed.

 

[icherouveim]

Good morning,

If you have noises like the following video then something should be wrong with your phase wires.
sometimes the problem is with the connection between motor's phase wires and expansion cable.
Make sure to solder the phase wires with the expansion cable if you use one.

https://youtu.be/es_B6IUdoiw

Yes it appears to be a phase wire problem as it has those symptoms, but on another close inspection nothing is disturbed. There was no impact or power failure whilst riding, the bike was running fine when I switched it off and put it on charge. I can't see anything wrong anywhere. Does anyone know some figures that I could measure on the Cromotor V3 (maybe something like resistance between the phase wires) that could help me narrow down the problem? The only thing I can think of is that the coil is 30A and the charger has a max output of 37A, but having said that I never saw the charging draw anywhere near 30A (more like 15-20A) and it charged ok 3 times before this fault developed.

Good morning,

When you see at the screen 20A battery charging current this is what goes into the battery. the PSU's current can be much more and maybe has melted some of your wires. Also check the STAR connection that connects the charging port's cable with your motor's phase wire and adaptto charging wire.

 

[Lash]

Just posting this here as it might help some, who let their battery get too out of balance (like me!) It was going to take for ever to balance on the adaptto and i dont like how it starts and stops detecting charger -current too low all the time, and then makes the mxus squeak a little each time as its balancing. anyway using tp4056 chip and beefy mobile charger >1 amp I could charge 1 low group through my balance lead. This means i didnt have to tear off my shrink wrap and protective foam layer again!

Check it out if you need a simple balance fixing solution.

[youtube]KUmdCJBQM-Q[/youtube]

 

[Allex]

Just posting this here as it might help some, who let their battery get too out of balance (like me!) It was going to take for ever to balance on the adaptto and i dont like how it starts and stops detecting charger -current too low all the time, and then makes the mxus squeak a little each time as its balancing. anyway using tp4056 chip and beefy mobile charger >1 amp I could charge 1 low group through my balance lead. This means i didnt have to tear off my shrink wrap and protective foam layer again!

Check it out if you need a simple balance fixing solution.

[youtube]KUmdCJBQM-Q[/youtube]

Nice1 but you dont need to have the charger on to balance. Disconnect it and set appropriate treshold for balancing.

 

[Lash]

Nice1 but you dont need to have the charger on to balance. Disconnect it and set appropriate treshold for balancing.

Okay. This is the first I have heard of this method, Im sure I havent read about this in this thread or the various manuals around.

So just to be clear, say I set my balancing to begin at 4.10 and my cell high volatage to 4.15. I then charge as normal using the power supply and charge coil.

Then, sometime soon the top cells will hit 4.15 and the balancing will begin. At this point your saying to disconnect the charger. And say I have a low group at 3.8v it will "magically" charge from taking energy from the other high groups of cells? Just by leaving the adaptto on ... for a long time?

Any info on this would be appreciated, as it seems to not be well understood.

Thanks,
Lash.

 

[Allex]

It will never charge another group, but it will bleed down the rest to what ever voltage you set the "Balancing" to
So if low is 3,85 and high is 4,15 you just set the balancing to 3,85 and leave it for(ever) some time. Don't need the charger for that. It´s not healthy for the batteries anyway to cycle them like this for long, because your charger will push the voltage up and at the same time BMS will bleed the cells - making the cells charge/discharge in a constant loop.

 

[icherouveim]

Nice1 but you dont need to have the charger on to balance. Disconnect it and set appropriate treshold for balancing.

Okay. This is the first I have heard of this method, Im sure I havent read about this in this thread or the various manuals around.

So just to be clear, say I set my balancing to begin at 4.10 and my cell high volatage to 4.15. I then charge as normal using the power supply and charge coil.

Then, sometime soon the top cells will hit 4.15 and the balancing will begin. At this point your saying to disconnect the charger. And say I have a low group at 3.8v it will "magically" charge from taking energy from the other high groups of cells? Just by leaving the adaptto on ... for a long time?

Any info on this would be appreciated, as it seems to not be well understood.

Thanks,
Lash.

After a conversation I had with a senior electronic engineer,
I will give you a hint. It has helped me a lot many times.

The secret medicine is the "slow charging" it works like a healing power for the cells.
When I am not in hurry I always charge my pack at 250W of power by using my efficient fan-less meanwell PSU.
It takes only some cycles to see the difference and the pack is perfectly balanced.
BTW it seems that something is wrong with your battery pack if you have such big anomalies so soon.
As I remember from your YouTube video your pack is no more than 1 year old right ?

 

[OV_]

Hey gang hope all is well.

It's been quite a while since I was on. I've put almost 3000 miles on my bike with no real issues to speak of.. until now.

I got caught in a pretty bad rain shower yesterday on the way to work. Had no choice but to press on and try to make it there. After a couple of miles, the motor brought me to a shuddering stop. The screen displays "Protect" when I attempt to apply throttle, and nothing happens. From that point on, the wheel drags constantly as if slight regen is applied , (heavy cogging). It does this even when I turn the controller off. Only if I disconnect one of the phase wires does the cogging stop and the motor turn freely.

Today I opened everything up except the motor, to make sure all was dry and check connections etc. I can't detect any issues in the wiring. The halls appear to be working and moving in sequence on the display H1-H6. I tried a System Reset and then an autodetect. After a few moments, I'm getting Halls e2 error message and it stops. Also, if I attempt to charge the bike through the coil, it doesn't detect a voltage and won't charge. Anyone run across similar symptoms/issues and/or have an idea what could be wrong? What else could I test to try and determine if it's a controller or motor issue? I only have a few months left on the warranty, so if it's the controller I'll need to get it sent out asap.

Greatly appreciate any help you could offer!

I have same problem: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61183&start=4325#p1285676

I've contacted Adaptto via their web form two times first time 3 weeks ago and havn't got any answers :/

If u look at their sales thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=58190&start=1450 it looks pretty dead allso at their forntpage u can see Interbike 2015 ad. So the site has been updated 2015 last time?

Great urge to go for ride so I orderd this: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=85156 It doesn't have adapttos monitor, but there's wireless programming and they are working to have wireless dashboard "Upgrade of the hardware to enable dashboard functionality is possible and is not that hard. With some basic soldering skills, anyone can do it. I am also considering using the CA connector thar is already present on many controllers to make it fully plug and play. I may offer hardware upgrades to already sold controllers. "

Still if there's way to get Max-e working would be very nice cause it's awsome controller. But don't have all summer to wait for it...

Allso Qulbix is/was OEM distrubtor: http://adaptto.com/Services-for-OEM/ but they don't have Adaptto controllers anymore? https://qulbix.com/qulbix-products/diy/controllers