999zip999
100 TW
How much voltage sag do you get on that big battery pack in how many amps is your controller set at
AliExpress battery pack unboxing (for my eZuma project)
- Thread starter MJSfoto1956
- Start date
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
999zip999 said:
I don't have a lot of data, but when pushed hard I've seen about 8V sag @ full throttle going up a hill.
The controller is currently set to 82A battery & 230A phases. I may up the phase Amps a bit more to say 250A.
One thing for sure, this 8000W V4 motor can suck all the Amps you throw at it. When I started this project I wasn't actually considering such a powerful black hole, more like a modest 6000W V3 hub instead. My next battery will have to be bigger by at least 150% -- I've got some ideas how I can pull that off without resorting to chopping the bike to bits. I might also go to something with a few more volts, e.g. 21s or 24s.
j bjork
1 MW
Looking good 
But those amps must be a joke for that motor.
What are the suggested max phase amps?
How about leave the battery as it is, but paralell with maby 15Ah of high c-rate lipos?
Then maby you can give it the power the controller can handle :wink:
Next upgrade controller..
But those amps must be a joke for that motor.
What are the suggested max phase amps?
How about leave the battery as it is, but paralell with maby 15Ah of high c-rate lipos?
Then maby you can give it the power the controller can handle :wink:
Next upgrade controller..
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
j bjork said:
According to QSmotor: "The motor supports peak phase current 500A to 600A. "
Notwithstanding, other than take off, the bike is a joy to ride at speed -- exceeds my expectations. Just need to work on the take off and I'll be a happy camper. OTOH, there is some evidence that their new V4 motor is designed in such a way so as to deliver more top end at the expense of low end -- which is exactly what I am experiencing.
M
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
Still waiting on some other parts, but the tire came in from Revzilla during the interim. So I mounted the 110/90-13 Pirelli Diablo onto my new VMC 13" rim -- the look now matches the rear wheel and I suspect will ride much better too.
Now just need to work on customizing the wheel spacers and speedometer hub dust shield...
Now just need to work on customizing the wheel spacers and speedometer hub dust shield...
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
Aquakitty said:
Well, it's easy to say that now I know what I want! But just six months ago when I started this project I didn't know squat. In other words, I learned along the way. Make sense?
M
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
Aquakitty said:
If I were to order from AliExpress again (and that is a big if) I would precisely detail what I want and insist on leaving the battery unwrapped so I could inspect it upon receipt. I would then wrap it myself. Something to consider.
M
Congrates on this conversion. The swingarm is piece of art and the battery now should last a long time with all that improvements.
:thumb:
Do the displayed values and scales always jump around that crazy or is this an earlier (beta?) version of the dashboard app?
This is hurting my eyes!
:thumb:
MJSfoto1956 said:
Do the displayed values and scales always jump around that crazy or is this an earlier (beta?) version of the dashboard app?
This is hurting my eyes!
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
madin88 said:
That is the result of the “twitchy” throttle I mentioned earlier. I will be replacing it with something I hope will be much less twitchy.
M
MJSfoto1956 said:
These controllers have a softstart function (throttle delay) which could make it less twitchy. Did you try it out?
But what would annoy me the most are the numbers and fields which jump sideways back and forth if they change.
Is it the latest version?
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
madin88 said:
I have soft start set to be off, but when the replacement throttle arrives I’ll redo the test to see if it is still twitchy or not.
M
MJSfoto1956 said:
A frequent cause of twitchy throttle is too much dead band at the low end. If you have to twist it more than just a tiny bit to get the motor started, it puts it into a more sensitive part of the throttle curve. This can frequently be fixed or at least improved a lot by adding a trimmer pot in series with the throttle ground wire. Then adjust the pot so the dead band is much less (wheel off the ground!). I usually tweak the pot until the motor just starts to creep, then back off a little. You need some dead band to compensate for temperature drift.
On the PV controller, there may be a way to adjust this in software.
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
fechter said:
This is good information but not exactly what I am experiencing -- basically if I move the throttle even minutely, the motor engages. And it doesn't matter where on the (cheap, Chinese, Hall) throttle curve I have the throttle. For example, I cannot do any slow-speed maneuvers. And on a bumpy roads I get the extreme on/off behavior as shown in screen video of the app. Other than this twitchiness, the overall bike performs beautifully and exceeds my expectations.
So I'm going to convert my existing (cheap, Chinese, Hall) throttle to a (good-old) mechanical throttle and then hook the cable up to a (presumably POT**, but-who-knows-its-Chinese) remote throttle. If that works, I'll be good to go. If not, I'll have to consider the trimmer pot idea mentioned above or fashioning a better quality POT to the cable assembly.
Fun and games.
Michael
** after inspecting the insides, it is definitely a Hall throttle.
P.S. this is what I ordered from AliExpress and expect in a few days (or few weeks) depending on how the shipping gods feel towards my project.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ele...-Akcnd-Ncy-Gp-Throttle-Grips/32954909008.html. When it comes in, I'll report back.
M
The jerky throttle or on/off behaviour is just a normal thing for these type of controllers with SPEED BASED throttle.MJSfoto1956 said:
Let's imagine you are crusing at half or 50% throttle and now you twist the trottle a little bit further to lets say 60%, the controller will instantly push max current or 100% PWM duty cycle into the motor to reach this speed, and if you twist the throttle again back to 50%, it will instantly stop to push current (0% PWM) into the motor as long as the speed of your vehicle is higher as actual throttle position.
Thats why it is so hard hard to smoothly cruise with partial throttle on a bumpy road or doing slow speed maneuvers because the moment you change the throttle it either is pushing 100% PWM or 0% PWM.
I dare say speed based throttle is part of the problem but it isn't quite that bad (full current or none) as how much you crank the throttle open does affect how much current/torque/jerk you get on acceleration. A three speed switch also sharpens or blunts the throttle response.
I think the low-end resolution of the cheap hall throttles is probably at least part of the problem, as it usually gets worse as you increase battery voltage. A cable throttle and pot is worth trying IMO. I also don't know if the premium electronic throttles like Magura are any better.
Thinking about it, a logarithmic pot might be interesting!
I think the low-end resolution of the cheap hall throttles is probably at least part of the problem, as it usually gets worse as you increase battery voltage. A cable throttle and pot is worth trying IMO. I also don't know if the premium electronic throttles like Magura are any better.
Thinking about it, a logarithmic pot might be interesting!
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
Punx0r said:
The retail versions of Magura/Domino won’t fit in the already-crowded scooter’s handlebars. That’s why I’m going with the remote pot as retrofitting a throttle cable will be a piece of cake (and cheap to boot)
999zip999
100 TW
Contact P.V. and ask him about throttle triwck. He is always adding or revising and refining his controllers and apps.. Mine are trouble free 18fet and 15fet.
Cheap rhrottle is my weak point .
Cheap rhrottle is my weak point .
999zip999
100 TW
So turned the 18fet full wot Style. So 80amp and phase amps 200amps or max and soft start on. Ok. I was riding around and hit at low sperd and lifted the wheel finishing a turn .No fun. I let go down . Unexpected. The first gen 18fet was up to 90 AMP but that was even scarier and it was even more Twitchy. On a muxus v3 4t @ 6250 watts the 1st gen did 7300 watts but it was a twricky beast that was uncomfortable to ride. Do you lift ez.
john61ct said:
Yes, the CA has a few settings for making the throttle less twitchy (ramp up and down settings) and you also could program a current based throttle, but this is tricky to set up and it will never work as smooth compared to a true torque controller.
If this would be my scooter i would swap out this toy controller for something more grown up, like ASI, Sabvoton or Nucular.
FOC and variable e-brake are nice other features you would not want to miss anymore once used to it. You and your scooter deserves it 8)
Many people and myself went the same route years ago. I also played with zombiess "throttle tamer" (sold here in ES some years ago) which was developed exatly to make those higher power controllers less jerky and dangerous, but in the end nothing can make them to work as smooth as you would wish to have them doing.
j bjork
1 MW
Nucular controllers seems easy to work with, but not enogh power for this motor.
I think you should have ASI BAC 8000 http://accelerated-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Controller-HP-Spec.pdf
or a big sevcon. None of them should be so easy to work with thogh..
Madin88, did you really mean Sabvoton?
I think you should have ASI BAC 8000 http://accelerated-systems.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Controller-HP-Spec.pdf
or a big sevcon. None of them should be so easy to work with thogh..
Madin88, did you really mean Sabvoton?
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
j bjork said:
I hope that was a mistake -- AFAIK, the Sabvoton is not known for its quality or reliability.
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
MJSfoto1956 said:
So it turns out the AliExpress cable-operated throttle that I purchased does indeed use a Hall and not a POT (yup, I checked). I can say one thing for sure though: the "feel" is so much better than the twitchy, cheap, Chinese Hall throttle that came with the bike. The controller is currently out of the bike, so I can't report if the "twitchiness" is gone, but so far, a big improvement regardless.
