Bicycle Wheel Balancing

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Mar 11, 2008
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Perth Western Australia
Curious if anyone balances their e-bike wheels at all? I did a quick Google on Bicycle wheel balancing
and not alot of information came up. Whats the opinion of ES members on balaning the wheels, reports i read
were wheels were out buy ~3 gram a little lead to offset this would make the wheel a lil smoother
would it not? Miles the human bot have you anything on this in your database on this mate?
I noticed my big 20x4in rear bobs up and down when i give it full throttle on the stand, i shall
take video of before and after balancing it and see how it affects the bobbing motion.

KiM
 
I have thought of balancing wheels myself. It's just one more of them damn things on the to do list. Good luck with it.

I would think your huge ass tire would be more likely out of balance than a standard bicycle wheel, so could probably benefit more from it.
 
I've never tried to balance a regular bicycle wheel/tire. But all three of the scooter hubs that I used for pusher trailers were out of balance. With wheels up they were fine to about half speed, then they started making the entire upside down bare frame jump around. These are 10" diameter rims with 3" tires, for a total height of 16". I used 1 to 3 oz of regular car lead weights and trial and error to get them to run smooth. I did run a test without the tire on the wheel, and proved it was the hub that was out of balance.

The two wheel trailer pushes my delta trike up to 30 MPH. Don't know what the unloaded speed was. The only before and after experience was the one wheel trailer I fitted to my recumbent bike with the first scooter hub. It would break traction quite easily, and that may have been because of the unbalance. By the time I balanced them that trailer had been dismantled, so no direct before and after tests, but the two wheel trailer behaves very nicely.
 
On cars wheel balance comes into play at 50 + mph depending on wheel size. 13 inch rims will shake @ 50 14`s will shake @ 55 and 15`s will shake @ 60mph.
Out of round tires will wobble at much lower speeds.
 
I use so much Slime that I doubt it would make much difference to weight balance. And 20-25mph top speeds rarely exhibit much trouble anyway. Uniformity and smoothness of the tire/wheel construction seems to be primary importance.
 
Never thought about balancing much, but have often pondered why a really expensive tire can be so out of round right out of the box. When a good tire suddenly gets out of round, it's because the cord inside is breaking down. Usually from potholes and curb hopping.

And tires can be mounted crooked, and be way out of round sitting on the rim cockeyed. Get it bad enough, and tube pops out the corner.
 
dogman said:
Never thought about balancing much, but have often pondered why a really expensive tire can be so out of round right out of the box. When a good tire suddenly gets out of round, it's because the cord inside is breaking down. Usually from potholes and curb hopping.
I have a narrower Kenda similar to the Kross (flat center, knobby edge) I just got from someone when helping them fix their bikes; it actually has one side's bead slightly larger diameter than the other, and it will not seat on most of the rims I have (or the cheapie one it started out on. It pops out in one spot or another once inflated. It appears to have simply been made wrong, as it was always this way for them since they got the bike. It was bulging so bad that they had taken off one of the rim brake pads so it would stop rubbing the tire.

I have a narrower rim with slightly taller walls that it might stay on, but basically it's just defective. It's still so new that it still has all the little molding flashing on it in the center of the flat tread area and no wear marks at all.

As for balancing wheels, there are a lot of things you could use to create balance. Have you ever seen those little janglies on kids' bikes; little plastic clip-ons that slide up and down the spokes and make noise as they ride slowly around? You could use those with some glue in the center to keep them from sliding, and put them on the spokes as needed to balance.

The actual act of balance-testing I'm not sure about, but I can imagine a device to do it, that would hold the tire horizontally, like a cieling fan. It would use an axle holder only on the top end of the axle that has a freely-movable ball joint on it, to allow the wheel to swing sideways as centrifugal forces pull it away from the center in areas where it is unbalanced. A pointed object (nail, etc) would be secured to the other end of the axle, pointing down, and centered above a point marking on something (a table, etc) below the balancer.

If it's a motorized wheel, it's easier to check, by just running the motor at various speeds to see how much wobble one gets out of it. Add or move weights around until it no longer wobbles and the pointer stays centered over the dot. Determining where to put the weights is harder, and would require either careful observation at slower speeds, or a high-speed camera to see what part of the rim is in the direction of the wobble. I'm sure there's a delay in that, so the weight probably has to go just forward of where the max wobble shows up, but I don't know how to calculate that.
 
Assuming the wheel in question is true a grease pencil held close to the edge of the spinning rim could be used to mark the extent of the wobble. Add weight 180 degrees from that point and retest.

FWIW here's a photo of a powerchair motor armature with markings that I'm assuming were used to balance it. My guess is that a timing light-like strobe was coupled to a device to measure the armature's wobble to identify where to shave off or add weight (note the handwritten markings on the laminations)
 

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Yeah figuring out where to put the weight is the problem. But if you did figure it out, cieling fans have sticky back weights you could use. But I find irregular tires to be my biggest problem. Seems to get worse with bigger balloon types like mtb knobbies. On those bikes I ride 5mph, so no biggie. But motorize one, and you get some wicked pogo.
 
As previously noted, with the low rotational speeds, and therefore, the low out-of-balance forces involved, balancing seems unnecessary.

A static balance may reduce out-of-balance forces but won't eliminate them. The wheel needs to be balanced in two planes to reduce dynamic out-of-balance forces. Admittedly, the wheel is narrow so if it is perfectly true this would be of limited benefit. If the wheel and/or tire changes shape with time though, the balance changes with it.

But all this seems like splitting hairs when the forces are so small. Wheel runout (axial, radial) and tire imperfections seem like more practical issues...
 
i balance my trike tires. i use solder and wrap it around the spokes. nine out of ten times the heavy side is were the valve stem is. My 5303 motor always takes a ton of weight usually in the same area when i change out tires
 
Based on comments from my bicycle mechanic instructor, for speeds under 50km/hr it is more critical to have the wheel trued with attention to even spoke tension and roundness of rim rather than balanced with weights.
 
jateureka said:
Based on comments from my bicycle mechanic instructor, for speeds under 50km/hr it is more critical to have the wheel trued with attention to even spoke tension and roundness of rim rather than balanced with weights.

True...but many of us do more than 50km/hr :lol:

I totally forgot i run slime in the tubes also, this would make it
difficult to ghetto balance a bicycle wheel i guess. Cars also can use slime was actually looking at some today at AutoOne (car accessory shop in oz) I guess with the computer controlled wheel balancers its not so much an issue... I wonder if i could get mine balanced proffesionally by a motorcycle mechanic...i shall ring the local Wreckers i noticed they had a balancing setup there when i bought the rear mudguard, shall report back if i have any success anywayz...

KiM
 
From my 4X4 days, we used a balance ring that was tube attached to the rim half filled with liquid. if you picked up a rock or a mud clot, the fluid would redisperse to balance the wheel

Same principle seems to apply with running slime in the wheel. I've never had a balance issue with my wheels.
 
dogman said:
Never thought about balancing much, but have often pondered why a really expensive tire can be so out of round right out of the box. When a good tire suddenly gets out of round, it's because the cord inside is breaking down. Usually from potholes and curb hopping.

And tires can be mounted crooked, and be way out of round sitting on the rim cockeyed. Get it bad enough, and tube pops out the corner.

People need to be very careful mounting these relatively thin and soft bicycle tires since it's easy to introduce too much offset with regard to the rim. The biggest culprit IMO is standing the unpressurized wheel/tire upright/vertical while working the bead onto the rim. This is also the area where a little soapy water will help the bead slip into the proper position on the rim.

Obviously, poorly manufacture tire can be trouble but when I started doing this I found it very easy to get the tire off-center in relation to the rim as Dogman describes. Laying it horizontally works better for me but that's often easier said than done with hub motor wires sticking out the axle on one side.

Bicycle tires are easily punctured (Pallet staples anyone?) Slime became my choice to help reduce those flats. especially on a hub motor wheel. Slime inside the tire I see no way to static balance. The tire just rolls until the Slime settles in one position. At speed the stuff is spun into a sort of balancing material.
 
it depends entirely on how well the tire is balanced to begin with and how fast it is turning. a smaller diameter wheel turning fast would be more trouble than a larger wheel turning slower for the same ground speed.

an aquaintance motorized his chopper style bike using a 5302 motor. even with a true wheel, over 20Kph he would notice a vibration. over 30 and the rear would shimmy. the tire was a cheap clone of one of those big wide "Big Boa" chopper tires.

the shimmy went away after he had the wheel balanced at a motorcycle shop. they used a static balancer and peel and stick weights just like they do on regular motorcycles. the tire tread was thicker in one place than it was in the rest of the tire causing the balance problems.

rick
 
rkosiorek said:
an aquaintance motorized his chopper style bike using a 5302 motor. even with a true wheel, over 20Kph he would notice a vibration. over 30 and the rear would shimmy. the tire was a cheap clone of one of those big wide "Big Boa" chopper tires.

This is similar situation to myself, i am not at all worried about skinny bicycle tires i run a 20x4.25in on the rear that has some bouncing to it on the stand at full throttle, its encouraging to hear your friends results with motorcycle shop balancing the wheel, i shall do this and see how it turns out also.

Cheers for the input fellas.

KiM
 
Mine are definitely out of balance :roll:

Searching... this piqued my interest:
Static Balancing

The link is mostly about changing out a motorcycle tire, but the Static Balance method seems reasonable and easy enough for a DIY guy.

Diver, I like the solder idea; easy enough to do. Better yet, fish weights. Hmmm... I wonder if there are any Pb-free fish weights around... :wink:

Ah-HA! Found some here:
Germlin Green Removable Split Shot made from Tin.
Cabela's also has a 190-Piece Lead-Free Weight Assortment, though probably overkill.

Woot! I'm excited; off to the store :mrgreen:
~KF
 
Kingfish said:
I have both my hub motors off for R&R and to swap on the snow tires. This might be a good time to balance them. Browsing the web, the device below found at Amazon looked like it could do both motorcycle hubs and rod-on-bearings style direct-drive hub axles.

41GLpn96I%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Motorcycle Bike Rim Tire Wheel Balancer Balancing Spin Static Truing Stand

~KF


That is a truing stand, nothing to do with balancing. There are better truing stands for less money meant specifically for bicycle wheels/axles. I know this is an old thread, but I have some input not mentioned...

My technique for getting a tire seated is to inflate to 15 psi, deflate to about 5 psi, pinch the bead all the way around and re-inflate. If it isn't perfectly seated after that I take the tire off and either return or discard it.

With big heavy tires, I set the tire label even with the valve stem, then true the wheel to the tire, rather than to the rim (disc brakes). I've noted that this results in better handling, and in at least one case, balance, than truing the wheel to the rim faces. That's with innova 26x4 tires that have poor quality control and weigh almost 4 lb each.
 
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