BikeE basic hauler

[rowan]

I’ve had this one hanging around for about 21 years, and for a decent amount of that I wasn’t in a place where I either needed to or (later) could easily use it regularly. But I figured the time has come to put a motor on it and use it for some local grocery hauling.



Basic BikeE CT, no suspension. Purchased new in the late 90’s in Madison, and seen pretty light use since then. I’ve added an Axiom rack to the back, so with the under seat racks I can carry 4 panniers. And then I built a nice wood crate to go on top of the rack. It’s ready for my weekly grocery run.

I live in the East Bay area (Oakland), and there are a few hills, but a lot of my life revolves within 5 miles of the house. I like the 21 speeds in this as it is, so either a mid drive or a front hub was going to be the answer. I decided on a front hub to start with, and we’ll see how it goes - I don’t mind earning my miles with a little leg sweat. This is Grin’s Bafang G311 ready to ride kit laced into a 16 inch wheel. Original wheel for reference:







The ready to ride kit comes with a CA3-WP.



I got the e-brake levers, and yanno, there’s not a lot of space on these little handlebars. There’s a Problem Solvers extension bar for the Cycle Analyst, and that leaves just enough space for the shifters, throttle, aux buttons, bell, and Garmin Edge 130 mount.



I got a basic DC front headlight, and not pictured is a rear light. I’ll need to enlarge an already present drain hole at the front of the frame to run the DC extension cord to the rear, but that shouldn’t be too hard.



Basic PAS sensor is basic, not pictured, and should be fine. The other frame adjustment I’ll need to make is the front fork. After putting on the wheel, something was rubbing. I figured I’d let it go while I put everything else together, but after a test ride I found it. The bolts holding the motor cover on rub just a touch against the inside of the fork. A little filing on the fork should fix this.



The last piece, and arguably one of the most important, is the battery and Baserunner controller. UPS and customs are still sitting on it, so it’ll get here later this week. I’m probably going to mount it in the frame right in front of the seat, but we’ll see where it fits best.

I’ve got some Ergon grips coming from the bike shop half a mile away, and I’m going to use a rear wheel stand for a kickstand. Expect an update in a few days for how this is coming together.

 

[rowan]

I took a Dremel mini grinder to the fork just now and got that out of the way, and opened the drain hole at the front bottom of the frame enough to thread the DC cable through. Miraculously, one cable is just barely long enough to reach from the CA cable splitter to the rear light, so I didn’t need the second that I got (keep it around for future reference).

UPS says my battery and Baserunner won’t arrive till Thursday. I guess Friday is the day to test it all!

 

[rowan]

Well, the battery, charger, and Baserunner came today after a minor UPS delay. I mounted the battery just in front of the seat for the time being, and it seems to work well there. There was just enough charge in the battery to power things up and let me know everything was working properly, but then it was out.

And therein lies a problem. The charger that was included was a basic 2A one, and it seems to have a regular XLR output. The battery apparently has a 3 pin mini ST connector. They don’t match. I’m trying to direct wire in using some test connectors and alligator clips, but I don’t think it’s working. I have a query in to Grin to see what I can do here, but at the moment I’ve just got a big heavy plastic box. :?

 

[rowan]

A little more fiddling with the XLR connector and I seem to have my patch wires working. The charger lights red, and the battery charge indicator has gained a level. It’s still a bit of a jury rig, but at least I’ll be able to ride this weekend, I believe. So, I need to find an appropriate battery end plug, and then I can cut and rewire.

 

[rowan]

Turns out that Grin accidentally left out the plug adapter and will be posting that out to me Monday. In the meantime I’ve got the battery charging and was able to go for a 1 mile ride around the neighborhood before dinner.

It’s not going to climb hills all by itself, by any means, but I didn’t build it for that. It will make climbing hills with a load of groceries much easier. Splitting the power on a 10% between myself and the motor at 6-12 mph is perfectly fine, and realistically I wouldn’t want to go any faster on some of these residential streets. I did hit about 23 mph coming back down the hill, and the rough pavement made that about as fast as I’d care to go. Perhaps suspension would help with that, but we’re also talking quiet neighborhoods.

I put the battery right in front of the seat:



It seems like it’s handling reasonably well there. I have to lift my leg a little higher getting on and off, but otherwise it’s not at all in the way.

I ended up riveting on the pedal assist sensor - the sticky backing was not going to stay put. It’s a little messy, but it’ll hold fine. Tomorrow I’ll do some more rides and sit down with the CA to start learning how to tweak it.

 

[rowan]

A bit more of a ride today at 4.3 miles up towards where I get my CSA delivery. Max speed of about 23mph, but typically around 10, and I’m going to have to cushion the eggs some on some of these streets. There are a few short but steep climbs in there, but I don’t think I was ever pulling more than about 600 watts through the motor. I was typically around 200-300 on any of the lengthier uphill portions where it was assisting me. Likewise, I didn’t burn up, either - I used my legs, to be sure, but was not wiped out after those hills. Both the motor and I had plenty of flats or downhills to cool off in. I’m looking forward to getting a moment to put a thermistor inside to get a better idea of the temperatures I’m seeing.

Aside from the bumpy streets, the ride was very comfortable. I think the front battery placement balances the weight pretty well. It definitely feels like it has more mass and momentum than before, unladen, but that’s only to be expected (and not too different from hauling groceries - better perhaps since the cargo area is mostly behind me). I did feel the towards-the-front pull of the front motor - a slightly different feel than having all the thrust coming from the rear. But the combination of front and rear thrust balances out decently. I almost never felt that the front was in danger of losing traction (almost, because I did gun the throttle up my mother’s steep driveway and very briefly made it skid, but I was deliberately trying to push the limits there). Definitely using less of the range on the 21 gears, but still happy to have them all there.

Several overheard comments from kids along the lines of, “wow, that’s a cool bike!”

 

[goatman]

are you running 36v? like your flag.

 

[rowan]

are you running 36v? like your flag.

I am at 36v. The kit only came with that option, and I certainly don’t need much more speed.

I got the flag from the local shop and it’s a great visibility aid.

 

[goatman]

are you running 36v? like your flag.

I am at 36v. The kit only came with that option, and I certainly don’t need much more speed.

I got the flag from the local shop and it’s a great visibility aid.

it matches your bike color, I figured it was 36v, I think Neptronics? was having problems getting a 48v battery to fit without hitting the front ring. I don't go anywhere without a flag on my trike.

 

[rowan]

it matches your bike color, I figured it was 36v, I think Neptronics? was having problems getting a 48v battery to fit without hitting the front ring. I don't go anywhere without a flag on my trike.

I think the shark style 48v that Grin sells is about the same dimensions as the 36v that I got from them. I thought about putting a brick style battery behind my seat or between the rear rack and frame, but decided I wanted the front weight a little more (and the integration with the Baserunner is pretty sweet). For that matter, they also seem to have 52v and 72v batteries in similar enclosures if you wanted to reach low earth orbit.

 

[goatman]

im goint to be putting the baserunners on my boys bikes once they fry their 20 amp controllers, so you turn on and off the bike with the switch on the battery?

 

[rowan]

im goint to be putting the baserunners on my boys bikes once they fry their 20 amp controllers, so you turn on and off the bike with the switch on the battery?

Yes, although the CA3-WP that comes with the RTR kit has a remote power switch that works if the battery doesn't have its own power switch. But just having the Baserunner hidden inside the bottom of the battery mount is pretty cool - one less thing I have to figure out where to lash onto the frame.

 

[rowan]

Also, after some internet digging, I believe I have the 1998 CT AA ("All Around") version of the bike, with an XL wheelbase. This probably makes a difference in whether the battery fits in front of the seat, and definitely makes a difference in my ability to put that pickup-truck-like crate on the back.

List of upgrades, other than the motor I've made:

* Schwalbe Marathon tires
* Planet Bike Cascadia ALX fenders
* New Tektro V brakes
* Axiom Uni-Fit MK3 rear rack and cargo crate
* Ergon GP1 BioKork grips
* mounted a hand pump to the frame underneath the seat
* riveted a basic steel L-bracket to the kickstand mount point so that it won't rotate in the slightest wind

 

[rowan]

5.4 miles through Oakland hills and potholes to get my CSA delivery, and no eggs were broken. I think I pulled over 500 watts for about half a block going up a hella steep grade, but other than that we worked together quite well. Uphills doing 200-350 watts depending on grade and how much I used my legs. I want to get that thermistor added so I can see what the temperatures are, but my hunch is that I don’t need to worry at all.

 

[goatman]

Also, after some internet digging, I believe I have the 1998 CT AA ("All Around") version of the bike, with an XL wheelbase. This probably makes a difference in whether the battery fits in front of the seat, and definitely makes a difference in my ability to put that pickup-truck-like crate on the back.

List of upgrades, other than the motor I've made:

* Schwalbe Marathon tires
* Planet Bike Cascadia ALX fenders
* New Tektro V brakes
* Axiom Uni-Fit MK3 rear rack and cargo crate
* Ergon GP1 BioKork grips
* mounted a hand pump to the frame underneath the seat
* riveted a basic steel L-bracket to the kickstand mount point so that it won't rotate in the slightest wind

ive got Schwalbe marathons on the front but I changed the rear bike tire to a 2.0 for winter and it really softened the ride, I ordered some 20x2.125 with kevlar for summer tires I have rear suspension but once I went to a fatter tire you don't feel cracks in the road and don't need to dodge pebbles.

 

[Balmorhea]

. Max speed of about 23mph, but typically around 10, and I’m going to have to cushion the eggs some on some of these streets.

I don’t know how much tire clearance you have, but given that the frame of your bike serves as a kind of fender, it might be more valuable to you to remove the rear fender and fit the fattest tire you can, at lower pressure.

 

[thundercamel]

Nice BikeE! My friend has one that we've been considering motorizing, in addition to the folding CE Moto ebikes I gave him. Haven't given much thought to a front motor, I have to admit What town are you in?

 

[rowan]

Nice BikeE! My friend has one that we've been considering motorizing, in addition to the folding CE Moto ebikes I gave him. Haven't given much thought to a front motor, I have to admit What town are you in?

Nice looking item! This front motor is perfectly sufficient for my needs, though I can see that some would prefer a rear. I'm in Oakland, CA.

 

[rowan]

Just returned from the weekly full grocery run, and this thing did fine. You can see that pretty much all the weight is behind me over the rear wheel, and that did make things a touch wobbly up front - I’m glad the battery is not behind me as well. That said, it made the trip fine, handled reasonably well, and didn’t tax the motor.

 

[goatman]

I don't know those bikes, can you slide something like a 5lb sand bag inside the frame? so its by the bottom bracket. its like leverage 5lbs 3feet forward of the rear axle would be like 15lbs of counterbalance? keep the front wheel down or hang the battery under the frame further forward

 

[rowan]

I don't know those bikes, can you slide something like a 5lb sand bag inside the frame? so its by the bottom bracket. its like leverage 5lbs 3feet forward of the rear axle would be like 15lbs of counterbalance? keep the front wheel down or hang the battery under the frame further forward

The frame is a hollow rectangle, so technically one could fill it with something, but there are several hurdles to that that put it squarely in the “why bother” category for me. It’s only accessible from the rear, and really only if you take the rear wheel off. All the brake, gearing, and now rear light cables are run internally through the frame. I know someone filled their BikeE frame with batteries; I admire that, but ain’t gonna do it myself.

I could hang the battery underneath, but it’d be further back to avoid hitting the chain and chainring.

No, the main thing is that it’s only slightly unbalanced. It’s not bad, and if I used the panniers under the seat more, that’d probably take care of most of it.

 

[Fjp]

I’m thinking of mounting a bottle battery on a U shaped bracket that bolts to the frame in front of the crank! I think if I use a thick enough aluminum sheet, then bend it into shape, it could be angled upwards on the sides to create a higher profile In the front where the battery base plate would mount. Hope that made sense enough to follow!

I have the short frame and traverse a lot of steep, albeit short grades, and have concerns of flipping over. Therefore, I’m trying to get as much weight up front as reasonably possible; including a front hub motor - something similar to Rowan’s.

 

[neptronix]

Nice build!! i was thinking recently about doing exactly what you're doing - front battery mount, front motor.. to even out the weight of the bike.

Having a big cargo capacity in the back is badass! doesn't it inspire you to go bike touring some day?

Question - how does the bike handle compared to how it was stock?

 

[Fjp]

Hi, Good questions! The battery mount worked very very well! I knew I was taking a chance with the handling characteristics by adding the suspension fork.... here's the skinny. It caused fork flop. The will lung left or right when putting it on the kick stand. It is slightly more unstable at lower speed after the mods. It starts to stabilize at about 10-12 mph. Gets much better at 15. At 20+ mph it seems to be fine on dirt/gravel, but less so on pavement. I’m 73 and my balance probably isn’t what it used to be so that may be a factor. I’ve tried both low and high air pressure in the front tire and have had mixed results. I ride mostly gravel roads and it is REALLY a cushy ride. I wanted to go with a front hub motor too, but with all advise against doing so with an aluminum fork I didn’t; the suspension was more important to me. When I put the battery up front it helped with the stability, so perhaps with the additional weight and lower center of gravity with a front wheel hub it may help even more. Best of luck, Frank

 

[Fjp]