Custom Build... 2 Speed H.O.B.O Powered e-Cruiser

[AussieJester]

Cheers guys...Yes Jay, i got to 70.1km/hr past the shops, the little squirt i gave it when i
passed the entrance to the shops Thats what the Cats-Eye says, i have my friend SnaPPeR's
GPS too (sold his boat so i have the GPS for a bit actually had it for 6 months but forgot i had it)
but the frocking thing has flat batteries i left it turned on two nights ago, you will LOVE the
mounting setup for that Jay, likely blow your load DUCT taped!!! it too the top bar LOL...
There is definately no need for 3rd when i hit 70 it was still accerating, on paper Thud worked
it out for 85km/hr with a 46 tooth sprocket on the back, i have a 44 tooth as the 45 ordered
from CR was wrong thread pattern so i gave it to Timma2500 for one of his projects, so on
a flat road and a full charged battery it will give me at least another 5-10 clicks i would say
those that have ridden it understand the addiction to the gears, i hope the
video showed their usefulness also a lil better, when the tow hitch is
finished (waiting on a carabeena i purchased 3 days ago) and i have the wheelchair in tow the lower
first gear will be invaluable up here, i think Todd new that when i blew the last single speed
setup and he offered to build me a two speed, ThudSTeR 8) is 'da man' Improvements over single
speed are imo obvious, some thing that hasn't been seen yet my appologies is the dead stop start off
that is clunk clunk free now, the motor syncs instantly with my heavy ass on it, Mick
started off up my drive way which is a nice little incline, from dead stop heading in and again
with his near 90kilo on it it didnt shudder, synced and went.

@YPedal MaN...As Rodgah stated it is cable...and since it is carbon fiber lever IMO worth showing
it again ROFL

Pull lever in changes too second click the lil lever she springs back into first gear seems too work flawlessly
the lil circuit JH made i was unable to get working on either analogue or digital servo and haven't heard back from
JH to try and sort it out he's been tied up with his own projects for last few months which, is likely
a blessing in disguise as the servos i bought for the electric change just wouldn't have fitted as neatly as this lever
cable setup is. RE: Fechters box, with respect to Fechter, they suck ass compared
to the simple servo tester setup YPedal, and yes, i had that terrible delay with
mine also Fechter gave me a couple of mods to stop the surging that
produced the delay when buttoning off. Lose it and go with a Servo tester mate you will get far better
throttle control its very close to Infineon throttle control but noooot quite, no wonder your not more
fond of rc setups with such a shocking throttle setup, lose it ASAP go right no take it off and throw it
in the fire will be your best move you ever made on that build. EDiT: Forgot to answer your other question Gaston
yes the gearbox/motor spins freely for half a dozen or so turns i guess definitely doesn't stop immediately.

@Danny...will leave it together at least until you have ridden it my pinted sized friend hehe
i have ALOT of pre-fab work to do on plugs and molds for the side covers, i will be stripping the
bike of wheels and forks and making a simply jig to hold the frame with the electrics in it, so i
can mold the covers over all the components, i think you will all like how i plan to accomplish this...
I will also need a lil more funds so don't expect anything for a couple of weeks at the least, i will
take this time to ride and enjoy...and likely break the bike haha...

Thanks again for the positive feedback...

KiM

 

[Danny Mayes]

Cool AJ.

Have you put your hand up for one of Eric's current controllers? The build is such high quality. I think you will get hundreds of trouble free miles out of it once all the bugs are ironed out. Eric's unit will protects it's Achilles heal and the whole thing will be built proof.

D

 

[AussieJester]

Cool AJ.

Have you put your hand up for one of Eric's current controllers? The build is such high quality. I think you will get hundreds of trouble free miles out of it once all the bugs are ironed out. Eric's unit will protects it's Achilles heal and the whole thing will be built proof.

D

I have definitely 'expressed interest' in one of Eric's current controllers :wink: i wish him well in turning those into reality as soon as possible, for sure anything that helps increase reliabilty is a good thing

KiM

 

[flyinmonkie]

Daamn.. you guys got nice roads out there.....

It's easy when you don't have a freeze and thaw cycle for 3 to 4 months of the year breaking up all the nice work the department of transport did all summer. ha ha

Clay

 

[AussieJester]

Daamn.. you guys got nice roads out there.....

It's easy when you don't have a freeze and thaw cycle for 3 to 4 months of the year breaking up all the nice work the department of transport did all summer. ha ha

Clay

Yes our roads are pretty damn good, potholes don't last long before Council workers are there with the truck full of bitumen
to repair it, you can see now why suspension on my bikes don't need to be flash YPedal MaN 70km/hr on a hardtail...no problemo :wink:

Speaking of roads, Matt.P and I travelled a few this morning, i was all excited to get some
nice HiDef footage, taped the camera to the bike battery all charged up, it ran out near exactly
where the spycam cut last time we rode this route, couldn't freakin beleeeeieve it.

Was a lil chilly in hindsigt i should of worn a jumper, other than that was fantastic fun for me
think Matt.P had fun to charging about, he's like Hyena is with birds and dogs cept Matts
attracted to GRAVEL and JUMPS hehe... So yes was a fun ride travelled ~20km IIRC Matt?
We also had the chance to burn off a Lycra... TWICE!!! First uphill then when we hit the
roundabout atop the hill, the adjoining road stems from that takes us home, there he
was again, he had taken a shorter route!! i pulled up next to him again and asked how
fast he can go he replied "85km/hr with hard pedaling down hill" I 'borrowed'
Hyena's standard reply... "Wanna race?"
I didn't wait for an answer i clicked it into 2nd and wound it out down hill... Lycra man was a
distant second pedalling like he was in the Tour de France He screamed by Matt.P but he didn't
catch me till i buttoned off and coasted along the flat

2 speed +LipO + HOBO power = WiN over Lycra up or down hills

How the 2 speed cruiser fair other than that you ask? OUTSTANDING! Didn't just
climb any hill it accerated up them! I also have Matt.P to back me up on the temp's of motor and controller
this time too! after our longest hill climb, i think 'ambient temperature' was the conclusion on the HV160
temperature! and the Turnigy 80-100 130kv STOCK motor...mildly warm. With casual riding and even a few hills and some
bursts the HV160 refuses to get hot BUT it did reveal a shocking spike when i downloaded the
Data from the ride 11.1v spike!!! Didn't happen when riding the bike, spikes while riding were all below 3v
this 11.1v spike was recorded immediately after turning the power to the servo tester.
Can anyone confirm the order to start the BEC and HV160 power supply? I have 99% of the time been
turning on the BEC (to power servo tester) then the main power leads (50v) On odd
occasion i will flick the main power switch then the BEC switch...On my cruiser i didnt have the two switches
just the main leads, the BEC was hooked to the main power leads so turned on similtainiously
which is how this 2 speed will be soon as the HVBEC (High Voltage Battery Eliminating Circuit) arrives
This ass about switching is the only thing i can think of that would have caused this as the
throttle hadn't been touched-->



Hopefully one of the RC Gurus can help me here Matt.S Luke BiGMooSe? anybody?

I received a small order via UPS from HobbyKing registered and insured for $US19.17
super quick delivery ordered 5 days ago!! I grabbed 2 Turnigy servo testers and 4 basic
servo testers, bunch of cable sleeving and some small 2 and 3 pin connectors...couple of
the testers are for Danny Mayes the rest are for me to have as spare

I had wanted to buy an Astro Servo tester to pair with the HVBEC
but was put off by the 60 dollar via UPS registered and insured freight charge
i was quoted, for a servo tester! smaller than a pack of matches...60 bucks!!
not too mention the 40 dollars asking price for a basic servo tester :-S
So lil over 100 bucks all up...Had to pass on it.

Danny Mayes is up tomorrow night for a ride, shall have him report back his findings..OH
reminds me Matt.P what did you say about the throttle movement again buddy?
"thats amazing and its sensorless!?!" i think? were your words IIRC
Matt? And more importantly, ho it started from dead stop, on a hil even!
Eat that up GWhy 12fet infineons with Hall sensors indeed :: wink :: LoL

ciao for now all...

KiM

p.s ThudSTaR 8) 2 SPeeD BoXes FTMFW!! Thud is a frocking LEGEND!!

 

[Danny Mayes]

Hahaha! Can't f@*#n wait!

 

[1000w]

Its all true.
Kim's bike was flawless today. The motor got slightly warm and there was basically no heat to be felt in the speed controller.
The best bit was when I got to ride the beast, this thing pulls like a train! This is by far the most powerful ebike I have riden.
I love the massive wheel spin on gravel even when seated and on a rolling start.
All this power was so manageable however, I was blown away by the smooth starts and fine throttle control of this unsensored set up, it synced every time even on uphill starts.
Well done Kim, great build mate.

 

[gwhy!1]

Danny Mayes is up tomorrow night for a ride, shall have him report back his findings..OH
reminds me Matt.P what did you say about the throttle movement again buddy?
"thats amazing and its sensorless!?!" i think? were your words IIRC
Matt? And more importantly, ho it started from dead stop, on a hil even!
Eat that up GWhy 12fet infineons with Hall sensors indeed :: wink :: LoL

ciao for now all...

KiM

I would blow a hv160 in seconds with what Im doing now with a 12fet and a sensored controller ,,, trust me :wink:

Edit: No, I still havent tried a CC controller so maybe it will cope , AJ I thought I would just put this in just in case it gives you ammo for the future. :lol:

 

[Byte]

Its all true.
Kim's bike was flawless today. The motor got slightly warm and there was basically no heat to be felt in the speed controller.
The best bit was when I got to ride the beast, this thing pulls like a train! This is by far the most powerful ebike I have riden.
I love the massive wheel spin on gravel even when seated and on a rolling start.
All this power was so manageable however, I was blown away by the smooth starts and fine throttle control of this unsensored set up, it synced every time even on uphill starts.
Well done Kim, great build mate.

Oooohhh that sounds so niceeeeee! I would really like to see a vid of the wheel spin on the gravel hehe

 

[liveforphysics]

Its all true.
Kim's bike was flawless today. The motor got slightly warm and there was basically no heat to be felt in the speed controller.
The best bit was when I got to ride the beast, this thing pulls like a train! This is by far the most powerful ebike I have riden.
I love the massive wheel spin on gravel even when seated and on a rolling start.
All this power was so manageable however, I was blown away by the smooth starts and fine throttle control of this unsensored set up, it synced every time even on uphill starts.
Well done Kim, great build mate.

Oooohhh that sounds so niceeeeee! I would really like to see a vid of the wheel spin on the gravel hehe

When KiM's bike gets some real power, he can do burnouts on hot dry asphault.

[youtube]oKuU6JahL5w[/youtube]

 

[Byte]

Its all true.
Kim's bike was flawless today. The motor got slightly warm and there was basically no heat to be felt in the speed controller.
The best bit was when I got to ride the beast, this thing pulls like a train! This is by far the most powerful ebike I have riden.
I love the massive wheel spin on gravel even when seated and on a rolling start.
All this power was so manageable however, I was blown away by the smooth starts and fine throttle control of this unsensored set up, it synced every time even on uphill starts.
Well done Kim, great build mate.

Oooohhh that sounds so niceeeeee! I would really like to see a vid of the wheel spin on the gravel hehe

When KiM's bike gets some real power, he can do burnouts on hot dry asphault.

[youtube]oKuU6JahL5w[/youtube]

Whaaaaaaaaaaattttttttt! I did see that topic about that bike and all of the vids except that one I think! That's... frocking awesommmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Woahhh that gave me a big smile on my face hahaha!

 

[Kurt]

it synced every time even on uphill starts.

That sounds great . I didn't think that was even possible to start from dead stop. Why do most of the guys selling sensor less RC setups mention there bikes are peddle first? Is it because although it will do it its just very hard on the controllers?

Kim your running 12s lipo, what kind of voltages to do see under moderate power on the flat ground. I know they are rated 44v nominal. Its my understanding that for most of there capacity as long as you don't overload them they will show higher volts ?

I am just trying to work out if I should go 12s or perhaps a bit more . My gearing is pulling spot on 1 kph - volt so 44 kph on nominal voltage 12s.

Keen to see the video of your ride.

Kurt

 

[AussieJester]

Kim your running 12s lipo, what kind of voltages to do see under moderate power on the flat ground. I know they are rated 44v nominal. Its my understanding that for most of there capacity as long as you don't overload them they will show higher volts ?

Unfortunately all i have for monitoring is a rooted Turnigy i attempted a remote shunt mod on but
seemingly failed misserably, a Jerrimy Harris i ain't hahaha...That said the old cruiser using same 44v
setup saw max of ~2-3olt sag, remebering theres some pretty high peak current draws...I have never
run my lipos past 3.6 a cell in actualy fact i think the flattest i have gotten my 44v pack was yesterday
standing voltage was 45v (all i have a reading on the Turnigy meter im afraid...) The bikes top end
speed was obviously a lil slower but the acceration was still plenty fun and stioll good enough to
beat a Lycra As for dead stop starts, i can't do these on the cruiser without a lil push to take the weight/load
off the motor, the reason i believe it is possible now is due to the lower 1st gear on the ThudSTeR box
it just syncs soon as you hit the throttle and powers on

@ Luke...yeeees Luke we all have seen your videos, how about upping some
with you actually riding it though? On race track? and not that
warm up lap you upped before, the knee dragging rear wheel off the ground
braking into corners action you mentioned, wheres that at? link please?

Cheers all for the positive feedback anywayz... Plans now will be to save some extra $$
for the fiberglass and carbon fiber required to complete the enclosure/fairing...i woukld
think i should be finacial for that in another couple of weeks if i watch my spending on fleabay
and the OCAU forum 'shop and swap' :lol:

Ciao for now...

KiM

p.s and i'll see you Mr Mayes tonight after work OH...pick up 4 x 'AAA' batteries for the bike light
will be dark by time your here and the batteries in the light is toast :-(

 

[Danny Mayes]

The first thing i regreat about rinding AJs bike is i did not film it. But thats not that bad because only i will really understand the joy, love, life, blowing my f*^%$#g brains out exploading experience it was.

I love everything about it

i want mine a bit smaller everywhere please, i will be in e bike danny heaven.

me and AJ have a top secreat project so there. Pictures to come. Keep eyes peeled.

Signing off with triangle intact.

D-MaN 8)

 

[Danny Mayes]

On a more serious note, AJ's bike is really, really fast. The gear shifting works really well and the linkages feel really tight. Shifting is a real joy and you can shift quite fast. Click into second and rap the throttle and the bike just shoots along, like a rocket. The way it pulls is so nice and coupled with the geometry it is all round a mega nice experience.

The whole package feels rock solid. If i was considering an RC build in a cruiser style like this than a 2 speed is a must. It just has everything (controller/ motor i mean) work so well. Having the taller gearing in 2nd means you can really dump power to the rear wheel fast and keep everything operating in their friendly zone. 30 to 60 happens in an instant. 'click' to second, wrap the throttle = mega, mega satisfaction.

There were some minor sync issues. It took off fine from a very small roll with only minor jittering and a few times upon applying throttle there was some very minor glitches. If i was to ride the bike more i would get used to the throttle and i think rarely experience any misfiring with it. But again this is where the 2 speed is crucial, with out it it would never have that satisfying pull and the generally very good syncing and throttle response.

I really did not think the shifting would work as well as it did. Beautiful execution by both Thud with the box itself and the way AJ wired it to the bike. I can't wait to get some more time and confidence on the bike so i can slam away some lightning fast changes when i am on the back streets away from AJs sight . Seriously, the implementation and exhaustion of the shifting set up is very good. Very tight, solid and functional. A must have ima. The ratios are spot on btw. Thud know's his stuff.

Personally i want halls. It's about the only thing i can say could be improved and that is being very very snobbish.

lastly, i am glad the bike didn't accelerate any harder otherwise i would have come off the back. Flipping off from a start is one thing but from second when the turnigy is really starting to put out some power, i was moving really fast. The geometry is really nice, the bike is very stable. It's a credit to AJ. 30 to 70k/h was sooooo much fun i could have done it all day long.

4.8 stars out of 5.

now back to my top secret project...

 

[Danny Mayes]

Oh, there is one thing i wanted to add. AJ will put tens of thousands of kilometers on this bike. Mark my words. AJ's combination of components work so well together i feel reliability will never be an issue.

D

 

[Kurt]

How much is AJ paying you to say all this Danny?

Seriously the bike has all the bells and whistles and has had a lot of time and effort put into it. Its good to see it all working as intended.

I think it would be great to see the bike ruining with halls one day.Only if it was a controller that was up the task. It would need to be a controller that can offer the same power..AMPS as the hv160.

I think with halls there would be not much to gain after the first 5% of throttle input. That first 5% can be make a big difference to how the bike feels. Even on my very low powered 80-100 with halls the first 5% of throttle on take off is real snappy.

The only way I can explain it is its bit like timing advance on a car. When you you remove the vac advance on a old school distributor.You loose that initial advance before your dizzy weights kick in and once they kick in at higher RPM full throttle there is no difference. Hook your vacuum advance back up and you get that initial advance back again it tip in and that great snappy throttle response just off idle.


Kurt

 

[Ypedal]

My fear with the tiny little HV controllers is their limited ability to handle heat, the larger controllers have alot more mass and stay cool at low rpm vs my HV110 that gets hot at low speeds even if i putt along at 20 ~ 30 amps...

 

[Kurt]

My fear with the tiny little HV controllers is their limited ability to handle heat, the larger controllers have alot more mass and stay cool at low rpm vs my HV110 that gets hot at low speeds even if i putt along at 20 ~ 30 amps...

I think AJ said his controller was only warm after a ride.

I did a test yesterday towing a child trailer on a 10km ride on a stock 12 fet controller it got warmish say 35 deg c after some big hills but cooled off quick when on the flat. I am sure if it was pulling 100amps it would have got very hot.I think its about knowing the limits of your electronics and being realistic about what they can do .

Kurt

 

[Danny Mayes]

How much is AJ paying you to say all this Danny?

ehahah! we have our "arrangements"

My fear with the tiny little HV controllers is their limited ability to handle heat, the larger controllers have alot more mass and stay cool at low rpm vs my HV110 that gets hot at low speeds even if i putt along at 20 ~ 30 amps...

This is why i am saying if you are running a RC esc, SERIOUSLY consider a 2 speed. It makes life soooo much easier for the esc and you get the best of both worlds. At a guess the 2 speed makes life 4 times eaiser on the controller and motor. i think most all RC set ups except may be friction drives would benefit from a 2 speed more than any other change/modification if you can justify the added complexity. Again i want to state it worked way better than i thought it would. It feels very robust and reliable.

by the end of my ride the esc temp only rose a few degrease. max wattage i pulled through it was app. 8000w (short peak of course) so around 160-180amps and i was being shot along very fast...

think it would be great to see the bike ruining with halls one day.Only if it was a controller that was up the task. It would need to be a controller that can offer the same power..AMPS as the hv160.

Jeremy Harris's motor controller would be perfect on this bike. with the simple analog brain and a brawn board that can do 200amps. With a wry rewound version of the motor Thud styles with halls and it would be a very evolved, very desirable power system. But like i say. that is being very snobbish. It ROCKS as it is!

D

 

[Danny Mayes]

actually scrap that. The JH controller as it is with 120amp limit is perfect. Just increase to 66v

D

 

[AussieJester]

I just had a long reply ready to post and closed the damn browser I HATE GooGLE Chrome aaarg
So..in short then, THANKYOU for the kind words Danny, i'm very happy
that you enjoyed riding the bike and your right, people just ain't getting how much
less strain the motor and ESC are under with the 2 speed in play :: shrugs :: "watcha gunna do" :lol:

The performance at low throttle IMHO is more than acceptable for on road riding, for
slow technical riding (trials type riding) yes a hall setup would definitely be an advantage
The small physical throttle movement in relation to the power output from a HV160
is not 'proportional' i.e small throttle movement = large increase in power something
you definately don't wan't in a bumpy and/oroff road situation.

YPedal ... You have a way to high geared setup that debataby you push
beyond the limits of both the 3210 and the esc, im surprised either are still alive TBH, judging
by the colour of those windings in your motor, I'm guessing It wont be long before a post appears
from the YPedal MaN pronouncing the unreliabilty of RC setups
as his 3210 sits a mass of molten wires still smoldering as he furiously types his
disgust..... ROFLMAO... :lol: YPedal...seeing you must have "missed" my previous
posts :wink: my ESC hasn't been past 32c according to the data logging

Thanks again peoplez....think i might try organizing a group ride again if there's enough interest?
Perhaps a different starting point but still a ride along Paths around the city, maybe start closer to
town and head out towards the Ocean? Shall make a post in the 'Aussie Role Call' thread soon

ciao for now

KiM

 

[Whiplash]

Count me in if somebody can spring for a plane ticket!

 

[flyinmonkie]

Kim,

You are so right about multiple gears being easier on the whole system. If it weren't for running my motor through three gears, I am sure I would have either burned up the controller or the motor within a day. I have seen peaks of 130amp and 5600w from my 100amp controller and 1000w rated brushed motor when I get on it in second. Having 3 speeds allows me to accelerate quick, even on a hill, and have a decent top end with out frying my equipment.

There's a lot of talk about 100% torque from 0 and a much broader power range with electric motors. But, we are almost all running the little motors we have right to the limit and often beyond what they should take. If you think about it, it is like putting a little 4 cylinder in an SUV and running around in 2nd or 3rd gear all the time. If you matched the 4 cylinder with a good transmission and descent gear ratios, it can be done. But in 2nd or 3rd, your just going to blow it up. I will never build a single speed ebike again.

Congrats on the final product. Can't wait to see the panels made up and the finished paint job. That is if you can stop ridding it long enough to tear it down for final paint.

Clay

 

[AussieJester]

Kim,

You are so right about multiple gears being easier on the whole system. If it weren't for running my motor through three gears, I am sure I would have either burned up the controller or the motor within a day. I have seen peaks of 130amp and 5600w from my 100amp controller and 1000w rated brushed motor when I get on it in second. Having 3 speeds allows me to accelerate quick, even on a hill, and have a decent top end with out frying my equipment.

There's a lot of talk about 100% torque from 0 and a much broader power range with electric motors. But, we are almost all running the little motors we have right to the limit and often beyond what they should take. If you think about it, it is like putting a little 4 cylinder in an SUV and running around in 2nd or 3rd gear all the time. If you matched the 4 cylinder with a good transmission and descent gear ratios, it can be done. But in 2nd or 3rd, your just going to blow it up. I will never build a single speed ebike again.

Congrats on the final product. Can't wait to see the panels made up and the finished paint job. That is if you can stop ridding it long enough to tear it down for final paint.

Clay

Sums it up well i think Clay, i also will never build a single speed bike again, I made that mistake with the
blue cruiser and burnt up a motor as a result. Both my trikes were multi speed which improved the 1000watt
brushed motors performance immensely IMO. I'm genuinely surprised nobody else has downloaded Thuds
FREEplans and made their own two speed, anyone with a small mill could build one the parts
list is detailed along with dimensions etc, IIRC the parts to build this particular two speed are in the vacinity
of 120 bucks U.S so anyone with a Mill and some nous could accomplish it i think. Those that aren't
in the position to build their own, P.M the ThudSTaR 8) and put your name down for one of his
beaudifully made 2-3 speed boxes :wink:

Off for an afternoon riiiiide...

KiM

p.s i have some video from the days ride with Matt i'll edit and up just to show the bikes performance
from different camera angles...you have seen all the route in previous rides so i'll just snip out the
more 'interesting' pieces for y'all...