Custom rim production

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

In the ever increasing quest for E-bike nirvana, I have been searching far and wide for the "Perfect" rim. I like extra wide, double walled rims that are relatively low profile. Oh, for 24 and 26 inch rims, you can get HUGELY wide "Large Marge" rims. But, nothing much in the way of 20 inch rims and even fewer choices for 16 inch rims (trike front rims). The best rim I had yet found in 20 inch was a Nimbus 44mm wide, double wall unicycle rim (that rim was recommended to me by someone on this forum, no less). However, those are discontinued. After much searching, I finally gave up.

Then it came to me; "Why not contact a rim manufacturer to make me rims to my spec?" So, that's what I did!

After a number of emails back and forth, we came up with a satisfactory rim profile and I ordered a few samples. So, I ordered 47mm wide, double wall 20 inch rims (32 hole, but I can get any hole layout I want) and 39mm wide 16 inch rims!

Once I test these (it will take 4 to 6 weeks to recieve the prototypes), I will evaluate them. If they seem good, and I do not have any reason to assume they won't, I can begin having my own rims made.

So, who is looking for wide rims and what is the assumed market for these? (bear in mind, it was not a huge deal getting prototypes made as I merely chose from existing extrusions they already make, chose the roll pattern (diameter), hole) lightening hole layout or no layout, and spoke hole count).

Matt

 

[AussieJester]

lightening hole layout

Well...i admit i wasn't too interested till i read this ^^^^

You going to have 'Recumpence' etched on the rims too Matt? If its good enough for Chip Foose...... 8)

Best of luck with the rims mate...

KiM

 

[recumpence]

I can have anything done that I want. I have considered at least stickers for the rim.

The prototypes will have no lightening holes (holes between spokes like trials rims). But, I can have anything done.

I know this is not a huge market on this forum. But, heck, I will persue trials distributors and unicycle distributors as well.

Maybe I can get another (much easier) side thing going. All I would need to do is take rims and ship them to whoever.

Matt

 

[gogo]

Did they mention options for angled nipple seats? It would seem the large diameter hub motors need more angle than is conventional.

 

[deecanio]

Hi Matt,

great strides again, just out of curiosuty does anything mean say - 23" rims or a size that would fit existing motorcycle tyres?

D

 

[zenith]

Matt,
if it wouldn't queer your deal, would it be possible to let us know what extrusions these are based on?
I like to match rim models (as well as tire models) front and rear on the bikes I build, and as you are aware, the small fat ones are nonexistent.
If your rims could be matched with some 26's I'd be willing to stock up.
I assume the 20's are 406's (BMX size), but are the 16's 305's or 349's?
NuVinci hubs are available in 32 and 36 hole but many of the hubs I use are only available in 36 hole, other drillings would limit hub selection.
For E-bike use (not to mention my considerable mass) I would prefer 36 hole.
Dave

 

[amberwolf]

What kind of cost are we talking about?

I'm assuming these are alloy rims only, rather than steel. Since they're doublewall, do you think they'll be as resistant to the kind of abuse CrazyBike2 (or any really heavy cargobike) would put them thru?

I'd certainly like something I can use easily and reliably on future designs, especially with the trikes I'm eventually going to build, but cost is a major factor for me.

 

[recumpence]

OK, some answers;

I do not think angled drilling is possible. I assume staggered holes are, though.

I can get any number of holes drilled.

As for matching rim profiles, that is a good question. Each rim extrusion has a range of diameters it can be rolled into. So, if you need two rims, one is a 24 inch and one is a 26 inch, yes, the same extrusion can be used for the pair. If you are talking about a 47mm wide rear and a 40mm wide front that have a very similar cross section, yes, there are a variety of profiles in various widths that should work well together. Remember, I am new at this and I have no idea how many rims I will have made for inventory. I still need to get my prototypes made first.

Cost. Hmm, that is a good question. That depends on production quantity, rim diameter, width, number of holes, color, etc. I can say that it looks like a price range of $30 (maybe even as low as $26) to as much as $70 would be what we are looking at. So, a smaller diameter rim without any bells and whistles like lightening holes, etc, would be in the lower $30 or so range, while a larger rim that is very wide with lightening holes is going to cost $60 to $70. But, that is a pretty extreme case. I would assume they will be $30 to $40 for most rims people would need.

As for strength, here are my thoughts;

I am ordering some 20 inch rims in 47mm width for testing. I speced a trials rim extrusion style. That rim is normally designed to be lightened with large hole between spokes. However, I am getting my rims without any of those lightening holes. So, the guage of material is thicker (again, because it is meant to have holes) than a normal rim yet without the drilling and double walled.

They should be plenty strong.

It will be 30 to 45 days to recieve my first rims for testing. We will know more then.

Matt

 

[spinningmagnets]

Finding out about some of the stout tire options may create more interest in stout rims...

"...A 14" Michelin M29S scooter tire is dirt cheap, and fits a 18" rim perfectly (16" bicycle rim, actually measures 18" OD?), since the diameter is measured at a different place on motorcycles and bicycles..." (Julez)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=216230#p216230

"...20" bicycle rims...These (motorcycle) tires are 2.5x16" and there is 2.0x16 and 2.25x 16 out there as well, but I liked these the most..." (Arlo1)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9966&start=15#p214248

"...The 17" inch motorcycle tires I have are essentially 24" diameter wheels, though they do require a motorcycle rim..." (John in CR)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10224&p=226689#p226689

 

[amberwolf]

So...assuming the rim wall of these custom rims could seat the motorcycle tires properly, I could have a set made that would hold those 17"/24" motorcycle tires that would otherwise require a motorcycle rim?

This is also assuming that the company can roll rims in literally any diameter, and not just exact bicycle-standard sizes. Depending on what they use for a process to do it, it might be limited to specific sizes.

I am pretty sure that my cargo bikes and trikes would be better off with the heavier duty motorcycle tires, if I had a way to use them easily.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

Hey Guys,

In the ever increasing quest for E-bike nirvana, I have been searching far and wide for the "Perfect" rim. I like extra wide, double walled rims that are relatively low profile. Oh, for 24 and 26 inch rims, you can get HUGELY wide "Large Marge" rims. But, nothing much in the way of 20 inch rims and even fewer choices for 16 inch rims (trike front rims).
Matt

What is your opinion on the pluses and minuses of 16 inch rims on Trikes?

Tommy posted he preferred swapping the 16 inch fronts for 20 inch rims.

Also Methods posted the following:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15083

My Typhoon came with 16" wheels in the front and 20" in the back.
This sucks for a lot of reasons I wont go into here - suffice to say I decided it was time to "Monster Truck My Ride"

I went with 24x3" boggers that work out to about 26"…

Obviously I am going to convert the rear tire as well but I wanted to give it a try like this.
Results?

Handles bumps and jumps MUCH better. Really grabs on soft surfaces - hard surfaces too. Where as before it handled kinda crappy now it bites the corners hard! Certainly hard enough to get up on two wheels....

It might be only a significant portion of the improved bump handling is due to bigger diameter rims and the rest is due to larger tires which would be where your custom rims come into play.

 

[recumpence]

Well, I completely disagee.

The issue is not the 16 inch rims, but the freakin CRAP Big Apple tires! Those things SUCK! Hookworms are the only way to go!

Here is my situation;

I build my trikes for road handling. The smaller the wheels, the lower it sits for a lower CG. Also, smaller wheels are much easier on the axles (side load stress). Lastly, smaller wheels spin faster per MPH of speed giving much better braking. Oh, one last thing, bigger wheels soften steering response. I like sensitive steering. I do add steering dampers to fast trikes, though. That allows sharp handling without being twitchy at high speed.

Basically, for road riding (I mean serious sports car type handling), you really need to be low. 16s allow that.

Besides, I like the low look!

Wait till you see my next trike. :wink:

Matt

 

[rkosiorek]

Finding out about some of the stout tire options may create more interest in stout rims...

<snip>

"...20" bicycle rims...These (motorcycle) tires are 2.5x16" and there is 2.0x16 and 2.25x 16 out there as well, but I liked these the most..."
<snip>

i have the same ML75 tires but in the widest 2.75" width i like them. very puncture resistant.

rick

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

Well, I completely disagee.

The issue is not the 16 inch rims, but the freakin CRAP Big Apple tires! Those things SUCK! Hookworms are the only way to go!

Here is my situation;

I build my trikes for road handling. The smaller the wheels, the lower it sits for a lower CG. Also, smaller wheels are much easier on the axles (side load stress). Lastly, smaller wheels spin faster per MPH of speed giving much better braking. Oh, one last thing, bigger wheels soften steering response. I like sensitive steering. I do add steering dampers to fast trikes, though. That allows sharp handling without being twitchy at high speed.

Basically, for road riding (I mean serious sports car type handling), you really need to be low. 16s allow that.

Matt

Thanks for the information! Exactly what I was looking for.

I do think that larger rims do do a better job of smoothing out the bumps though.

If you haven't seen them you might be interested in these DIY Full Suspension (Air Suspension) Trikes:
Video:
[youtube]7RgSpdDD-3c[/youtube]

16" front rims build:
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/search/index.html?keywords=chalky+&x=813&y=7

Previous 20" front rims build:
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_109615/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_109618/article.html

 

[amberwolf]

That's the trike design I originally set out to build when I started working on a recumbent. But I never found a source for the airshocks it uses (firestone/bridgestone 4001) or anything remotely similar in scrap, and hadn't found a practical/reliable way to make them myself, or any other suitable spring substitute. So I never ended up trying to build it. I learned an awful lot about steering and suspension in the process of working out possible alternatives, though.

The trike I am about to build is based on a bunch of stuff I learned from his articles (which are also at SpeedPedal), as well as stuff from the Packrat Workshop plus my own CrazyBike2 experiments.

 

[recumpence]

Wow, my first batch of 30 rims just shipped!

I will review these rims and I may order a hundred of them to resale.

Matt

 

[rkosiorek]

i've got a pair of 2.75" wide pirelli ML-75 tires looking for a home. my current rims are 40mm and 47mm would be a better fit.

any idea on price? are you looking for a test mule?

rick

 

[recumpence]

With shipping and anodizing, it should be easy to come in below $50 per rim. It would even be possible to hit $40 per rim with no frills.

Matt

 

[northernmike]

Pics, pics, pics!

 

[recumpence]

My rims are here! I am thrilled.

I have 16 inch (32 hole) for trike front wheels in 39mm width. Then I have 20 inch rims (47mm wide) in 32 hole and 36 hole.

They are all bare aluminum at the moment. I will anodize some and powder coat some.

I will post pictures when I get a chance.

Matt

 

[northernmike]

Wait, are these 406 or 451 bsd 20 inch'ers?

 

[recumpence]

406

Honestly, I have never even seen an 451 before. I think 90% of 20 inch wheels are 406.

Matt

 

[rkosiorek]

Matt,

the 47mm width is that the actual bead seat dimension or is that to the outside faces of the rims?

rick

 

[biohazardman]

OK I'm in for a 24 and a 26" 36 hole in siliver or black anodized or orange powdercoat. ;^) Son -in-laws bike needs them badly as well as a few other parts.

Update 5/2/11 found a full suspension frame on Craigs list , so won't be using this one, and got a C-lite 3540 motor comming but the rest of the parts are on the bike.

 

[recumpence]

Matt,

the 47mm width is that the actual bead seat dimension or is that to the outside faces of the rims?

rick

They are 47.2mm to the outer edge.

Matt