CYC PHOTON

[Rousabout]

It's an interesting kit. I look forward to reading more reports on these kits heat management, weather resistance, reliability, durability and maintainability.

 

[tomjasz]

Buying used factory ebike makes zero sense to me.

dude... for 2400 eur you get COMPLETE EBIKE with speedbox , good suspension , good equipment , good condition (saw them myself) , with motor INSIDE the frame . luckily most of them has battery cycles counter so you can guess it's condition , some of them are 750wh .
not to mention that photon will be more expensive than far superior g510
tu put it simply - at 1400 eur for motor alone i see no sense in this - no matter what ... 800 usd might be tempting
this is simply my point of view - cheers

 

[ornias]

Hello everybody and best wishes for 2023.

I'm relpatively new here and have read a lot last months and now registered as user.
Name Patrick from The Netherlands. Mountainbiking sinds 1994 and never stopped since.

I've been riding the Photon now for more than 300 km's offroad and it hasn't moved a mm.
Mounted the Photon on a Octane One Prone frhame and fits like a glove.
For wattages the 1900 peak seams a bit high. Havent they mixed it up with the max engine rpm. But the i drive it street legal according to European standards. I drive long tours so batterydrainage must be as low as possible

For those interested in reading the review about it check it out on our website:
https://emtb.tech/reviews/cyc-motor-introduceert-de-photon-drive/

Just select all text and translate with google translate oid. Grammar may be of a bit but then you get the idea.
Thanks for the tips/tricks etc.

If you've no idea what you're doing, don't review things...

In all honesty complete and utter none-sense like this:
"250 Watt maximaal is het voor ons"

Bullshit, 250 Watt NOMINAL is the max in the Netherlands. It has nothing to do with max power.
Also, when you gut the max amps (aka your watt limit), you're definately not going to get 110nm torque/koppel either.

Even so, your 250watt nominal, regardless of your settings. Needs to be proven by a certificate from the manufacturer, can you share your 15194:2017 certificate? Because I suspect you're currently running a motor that is technically illegal to use in the Netherlands.

Simply put: If you don't know ebike legality basics, don't review prototype motors.

 

[tomjasz]

How do legality and a 15194:2017 certificate affect performance? Seems minutia to get angry and confrontational about. I enjoyed the review. It wasn't presented for peer review. Just an Mtb guy sharing.

 

[Mongo]

I also enjoy and look forward to every CYC Photon view and review, and hope to have one in hand within a month or so, to swap out a Bafang BBS02 - which, my guess, are within the same approx. power/capability league. Yeah, I'm gonna be a (hopefully not sorry I did) early adopter.

And how 'bout we just play nice(er) and not have the thread locked again, please? There's interest in this motor - for some, just in the technical aspects, and country-wide pricing/regulations will vary and make the motor choice a "no" for some but not for all.

 

[Griepje]

Hello everybody and best wishes for 2023.

I'm relpatively new here and have read a lot last months and now registered as user.
Name Patrick from The Netherlands. Mountainbiking sinds 1994 and never stopped since.

I've been riding the Photon now for more than 300 km's offroad and it hasn't moved a mm.
Mounted the Photon on a Octane One Prone frhame and fits like a glove.
For wattages the 1900 peak seams a bit high. Havent they mixed it up with the max engine rpm. But the i drive it street legal according to European standards. I drive long tours so batterydrainage must be as low as possible

For those interested in reading the review about it check it out on our website:
https://emtb.tech/reviews/cyc-motor-introduceert-de-photon-drive/

Just select all text and translate with google translate oid. Grammar may be of a bit but then you get the idea.
Thanks for the tips/tricks etc.

Hi Patrick,
Is there any chance you’re gonna sell this test set in holland?

 

[1boris]

Whats to sell,?the review does not tell you anything importent about the motor performance

 

[scianiac]

I think the price and specs of this motors are totally reasonably and idea for many buyers as long as is performs like it claims to in terms of performance and reliability (which we just need to be more patient on) . There are plenty of reasons to still go a DIY route instead of an EMTB.

In addition to the ones mentioned above I've always been a fan of the battery options that a DIY build gives you, many commercial bikes come with massive batteries that are pointlessly large for many riders making the bikes quite heavy and while we're starting to see some lighter bikes come on the market they are often still very expensive (sometimes more than the big battery versions).

And even if you spend $1200 on a drive you still can save quite a bit building a battery yourself (remember most of us here actually enjoy building stuff) or going with a small one. And then considering how you can get some really good deals on used bikes that are just slightly out of fashion but still with great quality parts (often higher quality than what you would get on a low or mid tier EMTB). Way easier to find good deals on used bikes vs ebikes because there are so many more of them, especially when you factor in local availability or shipping.

I think a mid power torque sensing mid drive kit that's not made of cheese like the TSDZ2 has a place, certainly not for everybody but then what is.

Also not to throw a wrench into all of this but I've heard rumors they are also working on a higher power version of this drive, possibly similar design but with larger motor, rumored at 3kW. Still all rumors, could not exist at all, but it is on brand for CYC to make two power versions of similar drives.

 

[1boris]

I dont think you should get your hopes to high on this motor.A good mid drive motor should have a big rotor/stator and a high internal gear ratio.And looking at the motor it does not look like there are space enough for a big motor or a high gear reduction.I think it will be weak and easily overheated.Which is the opposite of the whole point with a mid drive.

 

[Bossomatic]

For those interested, CYC posted this on their Facebook page. Looks like official release date for the Photon is going to be Friday Jan 13th.

With actual users getting these into their builds soon I’m looking forward to getting actual details on the performance characteristics we’ve been guessing at

 

[Mongo]

I dont think you should get your hopes to high on this motor.A good mid drive motor should have a big rotor/stator and a high internal gear ratio.And looking at the motor it does not look like there are space enough for a big motor or a high gear reduction.I think it will be weak and easily overheated.Which is the opposite of the whole point with a mid drive.

I'd agree on the stator size and gearing with the assumption of a desire for, or focus on high speed and/or shear grunt. Like the Bafang Ultra or even the BBSHD can muster (just pour in the watts).

But isn't there more than one whole point or say, design optimization to a mid drive? How about for a lighter weight, lower average speed, pedal assist focused (not throttle focused) build?

Maybe what the Tongsheng could have been, if they tried harder?

That's my hope for the Photon - a light(ish) weight, medium power torque sensing mid drive that can self manage short duration higher power burst temperature spikes (self preservation - cut back the power if necessary), and bolted into the frame of my choice.

 

[1boris]

If a mid drive is not goona have strong hill climbing ability without overheating you are better of with a hub motor

 

[Bossomatic]

I dont think you should get your hopes to high on this motor.A good mid drive motor should have a big rotor/stator and a high internal gear ratio.And looking at the motor it does not look like there are space enough for a big motor or a high gear reduction.I think it will be weak and easily overheated.Which is the opposite of the whole point with a mid drive.

I'd agree on the stator size and gearing with the assumption of a desire for, or focus on high speed and/or shear grunt. Like the Bafang Ultra or even the BBSHD can muster (just pour in the watts).

But isn't there more than one whole point or say, design optimization to a mid drive? How about for a lighter weight, lower average speed, pedal assist focused (not throttle focused) build?

Maybe what the Tongsheng could have been, if they tried harder?

That's my hope for the Photon - a light(ish) weight, medium power torque sensing mid drive that can self manage short duration higher power burst temperature spikes (self preservation - cut back the power if necessary), and bolted into the frame of my choice.

Agreed, I don’t need 1000w continuous throttle-driven power. Just good, reliable PAS in a light(ish) package.

 

[scianiac]

If a mid drive is not goona have strong hill climbing ability without overheating you are better of with a hub motor

The whole point of a mid drive is being able to use the bike's gear reduction so you can have good hill climbing with limited power, and that limited power in this case for many users is exactly what they want, as in they want assistance of a few 100 watts with the motor spinning at an efficient RPM while they are pedaling at an efficient cadence. And in many of the applications where that works the best is where a hub motor is unsuitable anyway. And users that are looking for this type of drive also don't a big heavy drive with a big heavy motor in it.

 

[1boris]

So you wanna buy this expensive Cyc Photon motor if it is weak and overheats easily,so can can pedal around on 400w max power?
Does not have to be big and heavy ,just look at the eu legal motors.some of them peak at 1200 watts.And yes it is a point that it have strong hill climbing power without overheating.Thats why the torque on the legal 250w ebikes increases little by little every year.Because users want more climbing power.The 250w TQ motor peaks at 1200 watt and 120 nm.No overheating issues.Sachs rs 250w 112 nm and the new Revonte motor is up to 200 nm.

 

[tomjasz]

Good land man! Talk about overreacting. We don't know that it overheats. Unless you have data? Look at modern outrunner motors used in drones. We don't need a ton of copper to achieve decent motor specifications. The more technologically advanced controllers become the more we can do with smaller motors. Kepler friction drive is an example of using an outrunner to achieve excellent performance. This gets to be like politics. Silly opinions with little regard for reality and technology. ES has ALWAYS been a place to go for the best and latest. Please stop these ego-centric opines. After all the goal is progress not blindsided personal opinions. Yesterday's tech is today's yawn.

My biggest frustration with the eBike world is the one-way evangelical religulous views on what works. When it comes to kit building most ideas have a way forward to having fun. Have fun. not drama

I can't help but think the dogmatic views are based on forum blather rather than actual experience. I may be wrong in this instance but looking around the forums, more often than not the most opinionated are behind nom de plums and limited build experience. Or just plain egocentric.

 

[1boris]

Drones spins at very high rpm and can not be compared to a mid drive,you shoud know that since you talk aboult the best and latest technology
What actually is SILLY is to think you could have a good mid drive with little copper and low internal gearing

 

[Griepje]

If you look at the pendix system that is direct drive which lots of people use on travel bikes with lots of campinggear to get them up the hills. Those things last 150.000 kilometers and people are very happy with it.

 

[E-HP]

I enjoyed the review. It wasn't presented for peer review. Just an Mtb guy sharing.

I think even without the words, the review is helpful/of value. The pics are pretty well done and you can see how the motor mounts relative to the bottom bracket, and what kind of chain ring to chain stay issues one might encounter, etc. I don't really care much about the restrictions in other countries, except for the fact that it's a pity they are enforced.

 

[E-HP]

What actually is SILLY is to think you could have a good mid drive with little copper and low internal gearing

You might want to replace "you" with "I", since good is relative to each individual. I like ebikes because they are fun, but I can have fun on anything that's two wheels and self powered, whether it's 1/3HP or 130HP, all are good fun. I think a more universal statement that may be shared by most, is that the restrictions suck, but it's nice to see people still having fun regardless.

 

[amberwolf]

^^ this ^^

 

[tomjasz]

I still have a good time with my first-ever build. 36V 350W BBS01(2014)

I sold my 3 BBSHD and 2000W motors in favor of smaller motors and 36V builds.
As some of us age we come to the realization that an eBike wipeout at higher speeds is just reliving the PTWs many of us left behind. Anymore than 20MPH or pulling a Pedicab-sized rig or another BSO is no longer fun.

Thanks, E-HP it is after all about miles of smiles.

 

[pxl666]

photon officially landed

https://www.cycmotor.com/photon

850usd as of now . shipping to Europe 120 USD...little pricey

 

[Matze_Senpai]

so 970€ before tax and around 1200 after tax

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

20% inflation. What did you expect? Last year a paid 100$ for shipping X1 STEALTH from HK to EU. Now it is 120$. If PHOTON was released in January 2022 it would cost ~1000 euro.