gas price thread

calab said:
Catalytic converter thefts are on the rise, do the newer 2010+ vehicles require them in order to run or is it more to do with air quality controls the government pushes upon the vehicle owner to get tested to pass.
Mechanically they only remove carbon monoxide from exhaust gasses and can be replaced by a length of pipe in pretty much all cases. It would be possible to prevent that in the ECU programming, anything outside the correct range of values causes an error or shutdown. I've not heard of any manufacturers doing that but it wouldn't surprise me, it's a simple change and wouldn't cost anything.
 
stan.distortion said:
Mechanically they only remove carbon monoxide from exhaust gasses and can be replaced by a length of pipe in pretty much all cases. It would be possible to prevent that in the ECU programming, anything outside the correct range of values causes an error or shutdown. I've not heard of any manufacturers doing that but it wouldn't surprise me, it's a simple change and wouldn't cost anything.

This is not true..
Catalytic convertors transform a variety of very toxic pollutants into less toxic and less visible ones.
A car without a catalytic convertor has about 9x the harmful emissions.
Removing it without doing a tune would result in a reduction in back pressure and thus reduced low end torque, which sucks.
..and then there's the whole legality issue.

If you want to avoid a catalytic convertor theft.. buy a car that is low to the ground ( impossible to get under without lifting up ) and has a tiny engine ( and therefore has a small catalyst ). Thieves won't bother with a car like this and move on to easy pickings.
 
stan.distortion said:
Mechanically they only remove carbon monoxide from exhaust gasses and can be replac ...anything.

No, not at all. You dismiss many, may toxic combinations of gasses that the catalytic process removes.

NOx being one of them. Desulphurization is another common use of catalytic process. Hydrodesulfurization. If they could do it "in the combustion programming" they would.... the capture and removal of the resulting hydrogen sulfide gas; and the conversion to sulfur or sulfuric acid (H2SO4).

Over 50 million metric tons, yearly. Since...Like... Forever.

The U.S.?
9.680 million in the US alone in 2018. 8.7 million in 2019. 8.1 million in 2020.


Alot.
 
Premium is down to ~$3.90 already.

stan.distortion said:
calab said:
Catalytic converter thefts are on the rise, do the newer 2010+ vehicles require them in order to run or is it more to do with air quality controls the government pushes upon the vehicle owner to get tested to pass.
Mechanically they only remove carbon monoxide from exhaust gasses and can be replaced by a length of pipe in pretty much all cases. It would be possible to prevent that in the ECU programming, anything outside the correct range of values causes an error or shutdown. I've not heard of any manufacturers doing that but it wouldn't surprise me, it's a simple change and wouldn't cost anything.

Not to join in the beatdown stan, but you should know
Cat's basically are a necessity because car engines burn fuel at such high temperatures, and will always be burning small amounts of oil within the piston proper. Stan- the cat's purpose is to act as a sort of "secondary heat reactor", where the catalysts (i.e. a metal or material that makes chemical reactions occur more vigorously) make hydrocarbons burn harder and faster. We need these at high temps, because the two major health-damaging tailpipe emissions- Nitrous Oxide and Carbon Monoxide- form easily within an engine. Make a motor too hot, you get tons of NOx in exchange for no CO. Make it a little cool? CO instead. Problem tho, is CO can't really be burned, only can have heat and more oxygen added to hopefully make CO2 at super high temps; but NOx CAN, so the cat uses exhaust gases to heat up to the point where these reactions occur.

You cat is running like, 800F in some small areas and those two gasses really decide what temps engines work at. On top of that, your piston rings constantly need a thin coating of oil to work right, so you're always burning small quantities of oil- leading to more NOx and crap in the tailpipe. Ever wonder why a car without an exhaust smells like gas all the time? It's because without that cat, those unburned- or partially burned- hydrocarbons buildup and leak out steadily. Without a cat to burn them off, you smell like you have a fuel leak all the time.

As for calab, I think most cars now need cats just to run with modern ECUs, since most ECUs work off of testing their own exhaust emissions as data to see if something has failed in the engine. Even my '87 MR2 would check engine me with no Cat in place.

neptronix said:
War is going to get increasingly difficult to wage among big nations as the economy becomes increasingly globalized and interconnected.

It will also become increasingly expensive to wage.

Which... I suppose is a great thing all told, but it carries a lot of spooky connotations towards whom has power and "controls" things.

speedmd said:
Another econo box disrupter to hit the roads this year. Target is Sub 10K $$. I want one. Lumin "Corn"!

I looked him up but I didn't find anything. What is this little guy?
 
DogDipstick said:
NOx being one of them. Desulphurization is another common use of catalytic process. Hydrodesulfurization. If they could do it "in the combustion programming" they would.... the capture and removal of the resulting hydrogen sulfide gas; and the conversion to sulfur or sulfuric acid (H2SO4).

Which is why Europe has acid rain- we do too to a smaller extent, but they have far more small diesel engines (something nuts like 5x the number) without DEF systems.

Honestly with the sheer number of special metals needed for one vehicle, it's a little shocking that EVs require even more.
 
That was my guess that the catalytic converter is needed in order to run due to sensors, otherwise put a muffler on it and call it a day. The manufacturers want you to buy the $1000 catalytic converter, just like the $500 mirror assembly, or the one piece front right assembly unit for $2000. I would doubt the newer stuff could be reflashed on the simple, maybe one guy in Miami could do it.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Which is why Europe has acid rain- we do too to a smaller extent, but they have far more small diesel engines (something nuts like 5x the number) without DEF systems.
.
All current..and recent... small diesel engines in Europe meet the Emissions regulations required for all cars.
They employ similar catalyser technology, DPF filters, AddBlu injection, together with continuous tailpipe monitoring feedback etc etc.
I suspect much of the Acid Rain issue maybe due to the industrial emissions from Eastern Block countries ..Russia, Poland, even as far as China,...that can get blown west over the EU.
 
john61ct said:
Doesn't everywhere do emission inspections every couple/few years??
Nope, none in the Midwest and the south. It's really only an East and West coast thing, and even then out east its more to keep actual rustbuckets off the road- like, "This is VISIBLY unsafe" rustbucket.

Hillhater said:
All current..and recent...
There's your caveat. They've been running small diesels since the 70s and only began the heavier US-style treatment since the early 2000s.

calab said:
That was my guess that the catalytic converter is needed in order to run due to sensors, otherwise put a muffler on it and call it a day. The manufacturers want you to buy the $1000 catalytic converter, just like the $500 mirror assembly, or the one piece front right assembly unit for $2000. I would doubt the newer stuff could be reflashed on the simple, maybe one guy in Miami could do it.
Eh, reflashing could be done easily if he has the tools for it, but only thanks to the efforts of the fed and Right to repair laws like in Massachusetts can you finally force these companies to sell you the diagnostics. Mitsubishi will sell me theirs for ~$750, and I keep an early 2000s laptop around with a SCUZI port JUST because there's one Mercedes diagnostic system that HAS to use it.
You really should be running a Cat anyway tho; you car won't smell like gas everywhere and you're emissions are improved now to the point where having it running in the garage won't be a threat to your health. I won't do that with a 2-stroke in my garage, those things are just eugh.
 
speedmd said:
Another econo box disrupter to hit the roads this year. Target is Sub 10K $$. I want one. Lumin "Corn"!

I looked him up but I didn't find anything. What is this little guy?

Did you google "lumin corn ev"; = dozens of images - hits! Sam Evans reported on it also on youtube. He noted a 12k price point, but certain to vary a bit on battery size options as most are.

https://carnewschina.com/2022/03/14/byd-seal-geometry-e-and-more-announced-nevs-from-china-march-2022-part-1/

"glutinous corn" :lol:

https://min.news/en/auto/219fe9eb3f5ff5a30577a4ad7d810656.html
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
even then out east its more to keep actual rustbuckets off the road- like, "This is VISIBLY unsafe" rustbucket.
The two are not related, at all.

Your shiny Rolls Royce gets taken off the road, your falling apart AMC with no brakes is fine, only the actual emissions gets measured,it is an objective automated test.

No DMV employee even sees the vehicle, the private testing stations send in the result electronically.

And really should be required nationwide

 
They stopped sniffing tail pipes years ago. They only check - see or reject for ecm failures, the dreaded " CHECK ENGINE " indicator. At least every where near here. Mostly burnt out or non compatible O2 sensor issues. Cat Converter should not make much of any running difference on anything not equipped with oxygen sensors down stream of it.
 
Last emissions test was in Arizona. Never seen one in Texas, if they have any. catalytic converter's are stolen all the time here. They like to hit the school bus yards, bumper crop.

My car does not have one and does not use gas. Broke the Gasoline addiction 4 years ago. Come on in the water is fine.
 
ZeroEm said:
My car does not have one and does not use gas. Broke the Gasoline addiction 4 years ago. Come on in the water is fine.

One more step to go, man. Might have to relocate to manage it. SA is freeway country.
 
Horse back riding would be more eco-friendly.
Maybe go full Amish and grab a buggy the horse can trail behind.
 
calab said:
Horse back riding would be more eco-friendly.
Maybe go full Amish and grab a buggy the horse can trail behind.

Actually, unless you have a great deal of pasture, horses are much less efficient than e-bikes. They eat lots and lots of petroleum-fueled agribusiness products, even on days you're not using them for transportation.

E-bikes are more resource-efficient than pedal bikes in terms of propulsion (food being being much more resource-intensive than electricity), but indirectly the health benefits of pedal cycling versus electric cycling probably more than cancel out the difference. Heart attacks are very resource-intensive.

There's no way 3500 pounds of smog machine, or 5000 pounds of remote emission smog machine, can ever make sense as one person's transportation in a world clogged with 8 billion retarded techno-apes.
 
Yes really even if electric, private cars should be banned, as much as the public interest allows, essential use exemptions.

Taxes and fees like with alcohol and tobacco consumption taxes can help the transition
 
Banning cars from specific areas hell yeah, but ban all cars? How? There's like, hundreds of millions in the US.

As for horses, the other problem (speaking as someone whos owned them) is they're stupid resource-intensive their personality is either suicidal or homicidal. I think the cheapest anyone I know has owned one was $3-4,000/yr and that's because she's a vet-tech for decades and owns pastureland. The Ebike however, won't try to bite you repeatedly :lol:
 
Sorry, my bad on the cat, CO was what sold the things to the masses but I should've known there'd be a big heap of chemistry going on :) I never understood chemistry but the heating alone from a simple box on a pipe is pretty fxing mindblowing and then there's fuel cells... platinum must be amazing stuff to a chemist! The number of cats I've seen thrown out in the junk over the years... one day landfills will be a valuable resource :/ Backpressure does bugger all for power btw, good for silencing and the cat might like it but resonance does most of the work (hence why Yamaha have always been good at tuning). Pressure changes density and that effects the speed of sound in a gas.
 
Hear me out, if we force goverment to travel by moped rather than private jets we be well on the way to meeting emissions targets and as a bonus there be a natural thinning of their hurd too.
 
Ianhill said:
Hear me out, if we force goverment to travel by moped rather than private jets we be well on the way to meeting emissions targets and as a bonus there be a natural thinning of their hurd too.
And live off a state pension :bigthumb:
 
john61ct said:
Yes really even if electric, private cars should be banned, as much as the public interest allows, essential use exemptions.
...and then you will have the debate as to what is “essential use” ?
Carrying food from the store ?
School runs
Holiday travel ?
Travel to doctors/ hospital.
Etc etc

Seriously, i wonder if some of you posters have any clue as to the essential function private transport has in our societies.
If you really want to live a immobile life , then go join an Armish community , or some cult reservation.
But for those of us who have not swallowed the “end of the world” scare scam, i am not going to regress into a 19th century lifestyle.
There are places i want to go, things i want to do, sights to see, deserts to roam, family and friends to spend time with, etc......that an Ebike , EV, electric bus, or magic hydrogen aircraft (yea sure !) ...just cannot do.!
So diesel power it is for me until the impossible 1000+ Wh/kg compact battery becomes an affordable reality .
 
Hillhater said:
john61ct said:
Yes really even if electric, private cars should be banned, as much as the public interest allows, essential use exemptions.
...and then you will have the debate as to what is “essential use” ?
Carrying food from the store ?
School runs
Holiday travel ?
Travel to doctors/ hospital.
Etc etc

Seriously, i wonder if some of you posters have any clue as to the essential function private transport has in our societies.
Here's something that is REALLY going to blow your mind. You ready?

Some people living in cities DO NOT OWN A CAR! Can you imagine it? Yet they carry food from the store, go to school (or send their kids to school) do holiday travel, travel to the doctors and hospitals etc.

I know this may seem like an impossible idealist dream, but a great many people actually live such a miraculous life!
 
sure,..been there , got the T shirt etc..
But yes, we could all live in a high rise above a workplace , school and stores... no need to even own an overcoat ?
I think China are trying that experiment
I pity them their miserable “existence”,..because it is not a real “life” !
AND there millions of people living in suburbs, who rely on personal (car) transport for all those situations i suggested above.
Anyone with half a brain would escape that open prison existence as soon as they can walk.
Then again, you are correct to point out, that is where your new “car less” society is heading !
 
That overcoat better be made out of polyester or else.
You got to live life
The world is huge
Explore

Isnt it Russia's fault?
Its always Russia this, Russia that.
Tow the line Hillhater.

Hillhater said:
sure,..been there , got the T shirt etc..
But yes, we could all live in a high rise above a workplace , school and stores... no need to even own an overcoat ?
I think China are trying that experiment
I pity them their miserable “existence”,..because it is not a real “life” !
AND there millions of people living in suburbs, who rely on personal (car) transport for all those situations i suggested above.
Anyone with half a brain would escape that open prison existence as soon as they can walk.
Then again, you are correct to point out, that is where your new “car less” society is heading !
 
Back
Top