gas price thread

[neptronix]

Liberal and Woke and companies can do whatever they want.

When the left takes power-- and it will for sure-- then you can see how valid your nonsense assumptions were.

This is the exact partisan rhetoric that starts flame wars on this forum. We don't like it. Let's not have more.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

Aww, but I have some great jokes to make about the spooky buzzwords!

Amazon has been purchasing E-semi's for some time now. Orders are ongoing with Lion as far as I know. Most of the needed fleet is dedicated to door to door service so vans will most likely make up the majority of the fleet.

https://www.electrive.com/2021/01/11/huge-order-for-lion-electric-trucks-from-amazon/

Thanks for bringing some useful information here.

I've noticed that the trend of electrification in commercial transport is starting to go exponential right now.
There are companies that can claim they can sell/lease buses, trucks, etc at a total cost of ownership lower than a diesel vehicle, and the numbers they're presenting are adding up.

Eventually.. regardless of a large company's stance on environmental matters.. they're going to be running fleets of electric vehicles, because if they don't, their competitors have an edge on running costs over them.

Interesting times we live in!

Pretty much, even the USPS is bowing under the pressure and outcry of that trash AM General carrier they showed. Plus there's just advantages here in soft properties that few not in the "know" see- like low floors, better internal layout, better sight to where the wheels are... Personally, I'd love to see a real tech-pusher, but I doubt any companies (other than some wild ones like Aptera) would ever try something like Wheel hubs or even just LiFePO4s. Maybe they'll do V2G but why is frankly, a better question.

Odd thought- to keep the vehicles charging during the day to soak up excess solar, they might do more deliveries at night and very early mornings when power is cheap and there's less traffic.

 

[Chalo]

So what is Uber signalling with titles of masks are necessary on the app?

Publicly held corporations want your money. They don't want to lose revenue or have costly legal actions. They don't have principles outside of profits, costs, growth opportunities, liabilities, risks. When it looks like something else, it's really about the money. Count on it.

This is also why corporate businesses will lead in mass adoption of EVs. When they decide the scale has tipped in favor of EVs being definitely more profitable, they switch over. I think many of them are doing downside risk analysis right now. It's what looks like they're tiptoeing into the new tech.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

Also your """""signaling"""" is legal clause mitigation. It's easier to wriggle your way out of legal battles if you have a public sign somewhere that says "Don't do the thing" because somewhere, there's a guy who will test your electrical sockets with a knife and try blaming someone else for the shock. A simple "You will wear a mask" is a free sticker that allows Uber to claim they "warned" users of their platform in a court of law- you only recognize these because it references a mask, those labels are everywhere.

 

[neptronix]

This is also why corporate businesses will lead in mass adoption of EVs. When they decide the scale has tipped in favor of EVs being definitely more profitable, they switch over. I think many of them are doing downside risk analysis right now. It's what looks like they're tiptoeing into the new tech.

Yep. And then then they'll start mass producing EVs at as low a cost possible, and everyone will be buying them like mad. The economic/scaling domino effect is going to start very soon. And the largest automakers are already shifting their company in the direction of following this new wave.

I predicted this all in 2006 when i found out that battery technology scales like computer technology, just a lot slower. Each generation is smaller, cheaper, and longer lasting. Like the computer, a technology that scales like this eventually wins, no matter how slow it goes - as long as it keeps moving.

It's *theoretically* impossible for ICE technology to ever be as good as electric technology could be. This is not going to be about the polar bears, its' going to be about physics and economics. The electric vehicle WILL win.


And for now, it's a shame that China is ahead of the curve in creating cheap electric vehicles, and we are way behind the curve here in North America. It should be the other way around. I think this gas price pain, while it hurts, may prompt some introspection among 'important people' about America's future, if we continue to rely on foreign oil, and foreign oil trade. At this point, it is a serious matter of national, and worldwide security to solve the oil problem.

One interesting signal of the zeitgeist - the hyper efficient gas car i bought for $14.5k 4 years ago is now selling for $20k. Used Priuses are also going for absolutely crazy money.

America typically learns and adapts after experiencing pain, not because we were looking ahead to the future or thinking about how we could do better. We're reactive, not pro-active. What i know is that, when i see a lot of pain here, i know the learning and change is about to happen. America typically does a good job of pulling itself back up after 'the stuff hits the oscillator'. maybe not in the now, but in the long run.

 

[john61ct]

Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”

 

[Ianhill]

I think alot of people dont really understand what a world order is and hiw capitalism is just goverment big business and banks linking up to control the economics of a country and in turn its people.

Thats extremely brief but ray dalio gives a good talk on his take of historys ups and downs and hows its all part of a bigger circle of growth and decline its inevitable that the america of today will have to give way for the china of tomorrow, and they been full circle from the early dynastys having most wealth to heen pour and back on the rise again, in fairness they have alot of land and people to tip the scales in their favour for a faster rebound like only 2000 years or so, where as britian for example had to take all the land and its people to rule but fell faster technology has changed dominace wars are evolving at faster pace ever more violent thats why people fear for the future and media is so dull they push for war to make a buck rather than stimulate us with new found reality.

 

[neptronix]

Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”

:lol:

 

[neptronix]

I think alot of people dont really understand what a world order is and hiw capitalism is just goverment big business and banks linking up to control the economics of a country and in turn its people.

Your average person here in the USA knows how corrupt and nasty the system is... but hasn't really started thinking about what to do about that. We've had it too good for too long here, and didn't start thinking about it until now.

I'd like to think that this forum consists of people thinking about doing things about our problems. In this place, we have the answers to some of our problems, no?

Ian, what is your 'stuff hits the oscillator' action plan?

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

And for now, it's a shame that China is ahead of the curve in creating cheap electric vehicles, and we are way behind the curve here in North America. It should be the other way around. I think this gas price pain, while it hurts, may prompt some introspection among 'important people' about America's future, if we continue to rely on foreign oil, and foreign oil trade. At this point, it is a serious matter of national, and worldwide security to solve the oil problem.

I do hope it's a 'for now' issue too, but that's gonna require a change in how Americans perceive "the car" as a symbol or identity. We see it as a symbol of youth and identity and freedom, the capacity to break away from the dictatorship of our parents for new lives- but we see EV as being too limited, with that BS of the 250 mile "limit" that people like to have, let alone most apartment renters having no access to charging and being stuck to the street.

I still absolutely think we should work towards Iron-Phosphate driven cars, and ones built to as cheap and accessible as we can- and use a small battery and efficient design to charge as fast as we can- but it'll be hard to sell something cheap without people instinctively thinking that it's bad because it's cheap. Plus then you run into the eventual competition it'll have against the used market, would it be better than it's equivalent resource cost in ebikes ect, and it just seems to fall apart. Still tho, we NEED to ask these questions, because if we didn't we wouldn't be progressing.

I think alot of people dont really understand what a world order is and hiw capitalism is just goverment big business and banks linking up to control the economics of a country and in turn its people.

Your average person here in the USA knows how corrupt and nasty the system is... but hasn't really started thinking about what to do about that. We've had it too good for too long here, and didn't start thinking about it until now.

I'd like to think that this forum consists of people thinking about doing things about our problems. In this place, we have the answers to some of our problems, no?

And to add onto that, nobody really knows what to do about it either, or recognizes that permanently changing the system as-is will likely get violent simply because of the money and interest at stake. Hell, on some level it's gonna require changing of the American mindset towards public service and politicians, and that's a hell of a rock to roll uphill. I don't want to get too deep into it because of server rules, but I do political canvassing and the last round showed me that everyone is waiting for someone to do it.
Tons of things that can be done about becoming more resistant, tho. Renewable is a great start and everyone yammers on about skills, but few seem to talk about community. Do you neighbors trust you, and vice-versa? Can you gather da boyz pretty well? It's one thing to have people like you and call you a friend, but it's another to have someone not agree with your opinions but still respect you. I've read so many SHTF fanfics and few to none talk about the neighboorhood as an entity, or learning how to lead things like local governments or management as being apart of "Skills".

 

[Ianhill]

What do i plan to do ?

Be diverse as possible wide skill set allows adaptation, specialities tend to be like rabbit holes im only 36 but ive changed my job path 3 times not through want but change in industry.

I keep myself strong as possible physically and mentally, i'm no Adonis but i have been gifted mentally and physically compared to the average folk so i try not to take it for granted.

As for investment i have very little and no solid job dont get payed much but i spend my free time making sure the one asset i have my house is in as good shape as can be, as printing them as fast as money aint so easy and its the only wise investment thats not a big risk but involves more hard work than brain work for me thats great i enjoy been distant on times resets my mood state.

 

[nicobie]

As for investment i have very little and no solid job dont get payed much but i spend my free time making sure the one asset i have my house is in as good shape as can be, as printing them as fast as money aint so easy and its the only wise investment thats not a big risk...

Yep, It's hard to go wrong owning property. As they say, 'They're not making any more of it'.

 

[Hillhater]

Yep. And then then they'll start mass producing EVs at as low a cost possible, and everyone will be buying them like mad. The economic/scaling domino effect is going to start very soon.
.....I predicted this all in 2006 when i found out that battery technology scales like computer technology, just a lot slower. Each generation is smaller, cheaper, and longer lasting. Like the computer, a technology that scales like this eventually wins, no matter how slow it goes - as long as it keeps moving.

You may want to review those predictions against actual data...
We covered this previously with some examples showing how EVs have increased i price over the past 10 years (Tesla, Leaf)
So , wake me up when something changes.
And looking ahead,...Remember also how many of the EV critical raw materials are going ballistic on market pricing..Lithium , Copper, Nickel,, etc
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nickel-aluminium-ford-electric-car-prices/

It's *theoretically* impossible for ICE technology to ever be as good as electric technology could be. This is not going to be about the polar bears, its' going to be about physics and economics. The electric vehicle WILL win.

The EV will be a MARKET SECTOR only catering mostly to city /urban commuters and cashed up enthusiasts. The “average man” will still be driving 10 yr old Toyota’s.
It will be a very long time befor an EV can economically replace long haul trucking, agriculture equipment, National bus services, ....or even the general low cost personal car use.

if we continue to rely on foreign oil, and foreign oil trade. At this point, it is a serious matter of national, and worldwide security to solve the oil problem.

You should not forget that as recently as 3 years ago the USA was completely self sufficient in oil supply. !
It certainly is a serious matter, ..self inflicted,...but it is not a difficult one to solve.

 

[speedmd]

BYD delivered their 100th EV truck in the US. Low cost long life LFP cells. Looks good so far.

https://en.byd.com/news/byd-delivers-100th-battery-electric-truck-in-the-united-states/

 

[Hillhater]

Encouraging to see some heavier commercial applications ,...but with its 124 mile range , it wont be venturing far out of the state !...It has limited applications,..not much more than a local delivery option.
Even the “extended range” ..563 kWh battery... can only run 200mls ( 3-4 hrs cruising on a highway)
We are gonna’ need a better battery !

 

[calab]

The idea of hot swapping batteries never will materialize, the idea was going to a gas station and swapping batteries.

 

[speedmd]

CATL teases Kirin battery, says it has 13% higher capacity than 4680 batteries

https://cnevpost.com/2022/03/26/catl-teases-kirin-battery-says-it-has-13-higher-capacity-than-4680-batteries/

 

[Hillhater]

CATL teases Kirin battery, says it has 13% higher capacity than 4680 batteries

https://cnevpost.com/2022/03/26/catl-teases-kirin-battery-says-it-has-13-higher-capacity-than-4680-batteries/

I guess they are talking of ASSEMBLED PACK densities ... meaning their pouch type cell packs closer than a cylindrical cell pack .
Nothing new there then !

 

[stan.distortion]

This is also why corporate businesses will lead in mass adoption of EVs. When they decide the scale has tipped in favor of EVs being definitely more profitable, they switch over. I think many of them are doing downside risk analysis right now. It's what looks like they're tiptoeing into the new tech.

Yep. And then then they'll start mass producing EVs at as low a cost possible, and everyone will be buying them like mad. The economic/scaling domino effect is going to start very soon. And the largest automakers are already shifting their company in the direction of following this new wave.
....

I'm expecting private ownership to become a thing of the past and leasing to take over. It's already well under way in Europe and will be more or less inevitable if there's a hard push for a quick shift to electric, hardly anyone can afford to shell out tens of thousands on a new EV with just a couple of years warning and an ever dwindling number can either afford or have the credit rating to take on a finance agreement.

 

[neptronix]

I still absolutely think we should work towards Iron-Phosphate driven cars, and ones built to as cheap and accessible as we can- and use a small battery and efficient design to charge as fast as we can- but it'll be hard to sell something cheap without people instinctively thinking that it's bad because it's cheap.

The problem with LFP is that it's larger in size than regular lithium and exacerbates the range anxiety and car weight problem.
Also, nobody in the USA really wanted cheap short range electrics when they were being sold. :/
Next generation technologies like solid state batts would be a lot better.

And to add onto that, nobody really knows what to do about it either, or recognizes that permanently changing the system as-is will likely get violent simply because of the money and interest at stake. Hell, on some level it's gonna require changing of the American mindset towards public service and politicians, and that's a hell of a rock to roll uphill. I don't want to get too deep into it because of server rules, but I do political canvassing and the last round showed me that everyone is waiting for someone to do it.

You do political canvassing huh.. i now get you a little bit better, lol.. ( also, thanks for holding back )

That bit about people knowing something is wrong but not knowing what to do about it is a symptom of most Americans finally learning that electing the 'right people' isn't going to result in positive change anymore. What we do in our political system is rotate leadership between two parties in a checkerboard pattern.

Few seem to talk about community. Do you neighbors trust you, and vice-versa? Can you gather da boyz pretty well? It's one thing to have people like you and call you a friend, but it's another to have someone not agree with your opinions but still respect you. I've read so many SHTF fanfics and few to none talk about the neighboorhood as an entity, or learning how to lead things like local governments or management as being apart of "Skills".

That's super important. Religious communities, anarchists, and business people understand that problem the best, but the idea that we could function as a society without centralized management by working together ( requires community ) is a foreign concept to the generations of people who have lived under centralized management. Also, the idea that a 'looser leash' is unappealing because having a society would now require more personal responsibility.

We're going to live under governments we don't like for our entire lifetimes, just like everyone has over human history, because a majority of human beings prefer, and have preferred for ages, to be subservient to a leader, and they don't mind if that leader is abusive or not. So really, all the political bickering in most countries revolves around what KIND of abuse people prefer to receive, lol.

The real vote you can make in the USA is voting with your feet, or voting with your dollars. Most people are too distracted by governmental elections, that they fail to realize, and use this awesome power they have.

 

[neptronix]

Encouraging to see some heavier commercial applications ,...but with its 124 mile range , it wont be venturing far out of the state !...It has limited applications,..not much more than a local delivery option.
Even the “extended range” ..563 kWh battery... can only run 200mls ( 3-4 hrs cruising on a highway)
We are gonna’ need a better battery !

A miniscule amount of thought on the aerodynamic properties of vehicle design would completely change that.
These little LFP Chinese trucks were probably built for local shipping, not anything else.

 

[speedmd]

CATL teases Kirin battery, says it has 13% higher capacity than 4680 batteries

https://cnevpost.com/2022/03/26/catl-teases-kirin-battery-says-it-has-13-higher-capacity-than-4680-batteries/

I guess they are talking of ASSEMBLED PACK densities ... meaning their pouch type cell packs closer than a cylindrical cell pack .
Nothing new there then !

Not sure that was the goal with their announcement. Lots of crumbs of info spread throughout the various news feeds. Clearly they are suggesting that energy density is no longer a issue with LFP. Possibly just hype. They also are tickling further discussions on the semi solid state cells they have been planning for Nio ET7 flagship with a 1000Km target range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EpT3YO6dgs

 

[speedmd]

More on the ET7. The Lux end of the ev market just got a bit deeper.
https://www.electrive.com/2022/03/25/nio-launches-series-production-of-the-et7/

 

[speedmd]

Looking like the oil syndicate may have overshot things a bit. Sure it may have gotten some folks off the fence.

https://www.truckinginfo.com/10164277/performance-team-orders-300-einride-electric-trucks

 

[calab]

What help did they get from the government?