Grizzly Rider replacement controllers or repair? (1000W 52V Bafang G062 and G063)

[JgossofArk]

Good day!
As the the title reads, I am trying to revive a nonop ebike.
1st off batteries have voltage and I have checked that it is getting to the controllers.
Does a diagram exist for the controllers on the Ariel Grizzly?
I do not have any power of any type coming out of the controllers- keep in mind this is testing with no display but testing wires that run into the display and all other wires I could access.

There is one lead that comes out of the main controller that is short and has a red connector- would a controller have a switch on it to allow power, I am afraid to jump that connector as I do not know but seemed like the only logical option as again, no power is going through the controller.

All that being said- when i tried to open the controller it was jammed with silicone- are these serviceable- if not can anyone recommend a replacement?
The best guess I have found this far is here.. Best guess

The motor cables going to the controller have the 3 main pins and then 6 tiny wires in them.

Thank you!

 

[E-HP]

Did you own the bike when it was still running, or pick up a non-operational bike without any history?

 

[JgossofArk]

It was not , it was picked up as a bike with no history.

 

[E-HP]

Does the secondary controller also have the red wire? Most/many controllers have a wire, referred to by different names, that is used to turn on the controller by connecting it (usually using a switch) to the battery positive. If you are already contemplating replacing the controllers, it wouldn't hurt to try connecting it.

 

[JgossofArk]

No it is only the 1st one. I have attached an image. I thought I could get into the existing controllers to look for faulty components but they are full real full of silicone and will take a while to dig out. All in good time. I will say at this point it would probably a huge time and frustration saver just to replace the controllers if there are compatible ones out there. I will try and see if I get any readings.
-Jason

 

[E-HP]

Is there voltage on either of the two pins from the red connector?

 

[JgossofArk]

No there is not. Now as I type this I am thinking myself that it will not make a difference if I did short them out and there will not be any different result.
Looks like I need to start digging out silicone or shopping.

If you have a recommendation for replacement controllers that would with with those motors please pass along you links.

 

[E-HP]

The pair you linked would probably work just fine since they are set up to run dual motors with single control inputs. It's also not difficult to just get a pair of identical controllers and have the control inputs (throttle, PAS, etc.) going to both, and you could add some simple circuitry, at least on the throttle, to adjust the level of power going to front/rear. It would be good to know if there are any features provided by the stock units (controlling lights, cruise control, etc.) that you want to retain, or need a work around for.

 

[JgossofArk]

Using two identical ones did not cross my mind. The current factory set up has a handle bar switch from rear, both, or front motor.

The motors are sensor motors I do not know enough about it. would need to have 2 displays to make them function. Seems like the displays control the controller (if that makes sense)

 

[E-HP]

Using two identical ones did not cross my mind. The current factory set up has a handle bar switch from rear, both, or front motor.

The motors are sensor motors I do not know enough about it. would need to have 2 displays to make them function. Seems like the displays control the controller (if that makes sense)

In general, yes, if the controllers use displays. An option would be two identical cheap dumb controllers and a Cycle Analyst to provide the throttle (and PAS) signal to the two controllers, and using the CA to control PAS levels. In that case the controllers only need a throttle input, since the PAS sensor and throttle wire directly to the CA. Some folks say the CA is too expensive, but if combined with a couple of dumb/cheap controllers, the package can be the more economical solution.
Search "dual motor" and you'll see many posts on various ways to set up a dual motor system.

 

[amberwolf]

Personally, I'd go with the above CA setup (and do, on my SB Cruiser trike and the previous CrazyBike2), but if you prefer to try it without that:

With a typical controller/display setup, if you don't need to see any of the feedback from the controller and only need to tell it what to do, you can use just one display, and split it's TX output to feed both controllers, and either wire up the RX input of the display from one controller, or put a switch on it to connect it to either one at need. This has worked for those that tried it and posted here on ES about it (there probably are some it doesn't work on).

Similarly, you can connect just one throttle to both controllers, and one PAS sensor, powering them only from one controller (which also gets the signal wire), and connecting only the signal wire from each to the other controller. Battery negative is shared between the controllers (assuming one battery for the whole system) to give a common ground to the system.

Ebrake levers if used would connect both wires to each controller.

Depending on the way the existing F/R/B switch is wired and functions inside, you can use it to switch either which controller is "on" or simply which one gets the throttle and/or PAS signal.

 

[JgossofArk]

Wow. I will do my motor home work to make sure they are good and report back.
Thank you!

 

[JgossofArk]

Update! I have the rear motor hooked up and works in the learning mode. Shows speed on the controller. However when I unhook that the display states I need to have speed gauge magnetic steel number. If course I *think* that's number of motor magnets. Does anyone have that information for a bafang G063 1000 watt? Also on that note the power ratio. Hoping this gets me started in the right direction. The other thing I found out is that these controllers that I purchased off of the link above do not have a pedal assist function so that is disappointing.

 

[E-HP]

Update! I have the rear motor hooked up and works in the learning mode. Shows speed on the controller. However when I unhook that the display states I need to have speed gauge magnetic steel number. If course I *think* that's number of motor magnets. Does anyone have that information for a bafang G063 1000 watt? Also on that note the power ratio. Hoping this gets me started in the right direction. The other thing I found out is that these controllers that I purchased off of the link above do not have a pedal assist function so that is disappointing.

Does the motor work otherwise (regardless of the message)? Those values are usually used to determine speed, however since you have geared hub motors, they won't register speed when coasting/not under throttle. What options does the display provide?
The controller has a sixth white wire in the hall sensor connector, which is for a speed sensor. Check the hall sensor connector on the motor side to make sure it has the same white wire (the motor's internal speed sensor). There may or may not be an obvious setting that tells the controller to use the speed sensor vs one of the hall senor wires to determine speed.

 

[JgossofArk]

It spins on its own power in the learn mode.
I will check the options that I have for the display.

The motor does have a white wire coming out of it which I have plugged into the speed sensor of the controller (because all those wires are together the 3 hall wires , ground ,5v and the WH)

Meanwhile I have tried to short out the phase wires to count the magnets. Seems like 72 however the math listed on the controller info does not work as it maxes out at 100

Attached are 2 images from the " instructions". First one showing the magnet count part and the second one showing other options.

 

[E-HP]

It spins on its own power in the learn mode.

Someone can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe learning mode is a sensorless operation, so even if the motor spins, it doesn't necessarily mean that the hall sensors are good. Without knowing the history of the motors, it's possible that they were overheated at some point and cooked the hall sensors. You can perform some quick tests to see if the halls are good; which will help to diagnose and provide a solution.
Refer to the hall sensor testing section:
Testing BLDC motor's Phase Wiring - Hall Sensors and Wiring.

If the halls are good, you may need to move to the section for determining the correct wiring order for phase and halls.

 

[JgossofArk]

Ok another update both motors are running on throttle!
I don't see anyway that this controller set has pedal assist also so I am on the look out for a set that does.

One last strange thing is that the front wheel does not turn backwards with power or no power it does not turn. It goes forward great but no backward movement. I thought it might be the gears but there's no strange noise when driving. That's the only odd thing.

 

[E-HP]

Ok another update both motors are running on throttle!

What changed?

 

[JgossofArk]

I changed the motor direction with the learning wire and changes the magnet count to 72 (which I hope is correct)

 

[E-HP]

If you currently have two motors working under throttle, I would consider the Cycle Analyst for adding PAS and other features, rather than trying to find another set of controllers. Can you take a pic of the PAS sensor on the bike?

 

[JgossofArk]

Here they are. There are 3 wires coming out of it

 

[TuomasK]

Bafang G060/062/062 all have 20 pole pairs and 5:1 gear reduction. Set pole pairs to 100.

 

[JgossofArk]

Thank you.

 

[JgossofArk]

done, not sure what that does I had mine at 72- it seems slower- probably a good thing as I could have caused damage.
Now I just need to figure out why my front controller gets HOT fast. Something else that is interesting about it is that when I plugged in the learning wire it spins VERY fast and it does not turn backwards even when there is no power attached- my guess is that it is a stuck clutch if that us such a thing... not saying it is hard to turn it just does NOT turn backwards. Seems to work fine going forward under power.

 

[JgossofArk]

I am using these Best guess