How good is Cyclone 4kw coaxial suspension bike?

[Jamesavery22]

Has anyone ordered cyclone's coaxial eeb kit? Very curious about that setup.

 

[Tommm]

Has anyone ordered cyclone's coaxial eeb kit? Very curious about that setup.

It's cool if you don't care about stealth, want better weight/handling than hub eeb builds, and a very big battery.

Two things.

Even paco himself recommends you source an eeb/vector frame locally and then replace the swingarm with the motor. The frames are not altered in any way. This is good because the shipping/tax from taiwan is astronomical.

As I already have a 4kw motor, it isn't too interesting, if you are willing to lose stealth (perhaps you can register as a moped in your place) I would go for the 7.5kw motor swingarm. That motor is brutal... but doesn't have pedal support, only pegs.

 

[Jamesavery22]

Definitely good with the looks and getting just the swing arm + motor. I've been tempted to ask about their 7.5k motor but not being able to pedal has me very hesitant.

 

[Jamesavery22]

Does anyone know of a source in the US for the EEB frame?

 

[Skaiwerd]

I’d look closely at the pictures of how that motor mounts to the swing-arm, and the swing-arm to the frame. I’m sure it functions fine but doesn’t seem ideal. I think someone stateside could do better at the design. Single speed on the left keeps your your pedals. I know you know this. Yes no point in this motor then.

 

[Jamesavery22]

I’d look closely at the pictures of how that motor mounts to the swing-arm, and the swing-arm to the frame. I’m sure it functions fine but doesn’t seem ideal. I think someone stateside could do better at the design. Single speed on the left keeps your your pedals. I know you know this. Yes no point in this motor then.

I'm honestly curious about what you mean but I don't follow. The way they mount the motor to the frame definitely looks like it could be improved. First thing that drew my eye. Are you saying it should be a deal breaker? If so, I'm curious why?

 

[Tommm]

Definitely good with the looks and getting just the swing arm + motor. I've been tempted to ask about their 7.5k motor but not being able to pedal has me very hesitant.

You wouldn't want to pedal a machine of that caliber anyways. That motor is 10'000w+. Your legs put out ~300w. Absolutely no point, even with the 4kw motor, it's just optics.

I’d look closely at the pictures of how that motor mounts to the swing-arm, and the swing-arm to the frame. I’m sure it functions fine but doesn’t seem ideal. I think someone stateside could do better at the design. Single speed on the left keeps your your pedals. I know you know this. Yes no point in this motor then.

I'm honestly curious about what you mean but I don't follow. The way they mount the motor to the frame definitely looks like it could be improved. First thing that drew my eye. Are you saying it should be a deal breaker? If so, I'm curious why?

He meant the motor moves with the swingarm. Certainly not ideal, but the motor is 7kg, close the center of gravity of the bike. Whereas 8kw hubs are 20kg, also move with the swingarm, isolated far to the rear and provide rotating mass.

 

[Jamesavery22]

Gotcha. Still on the fence even if they had a 7.5kw kit. I emailed and asked if they had one. Either way I need to source an EEB frame in the States and I can't find them anywhere but China. Do I need to wait until one shows up on eBay?

 

[Tommm]

Gotcha. Still on the fence even if they had a 7.5kw kit. I emailed and asked if they had one. Either way I need to source an EEB frame in the States and I can't find them anywhere but China. Do I need to wait until one shows up on eBay?

Afaik in US em3ev is the cheapest.

https://em3ev.com/shop/eeb-full-suspension-ebike-frame/

 

[Jamesavery22]

Oh. I didn't know they had distributors in the US. Assumed they were completely in China. Whoops. My fault.

 

[Skaiwerd]

Sorry to confuse.
The motor appears to be mounted in a type of band clamp to me. And the structure/strength of the swing arm is only this piece of bent round shaped metal where the motor is. That metal may be considered sheet metal as it does not look very thick. The mount of swing arm to the frame looked crude and not long enough to be strong enough. The part the bolt goes through. Twisting might occur here if anywhere. Seems like there should be some precision parts in this area. Some or a combination of Plasma cut or water jet or Cnc’d or cast parts. The prices for this stuff is low or reasonable and we’ve gotten use to better. I know it’s a budget bike frame. At some point we’re doing better here figuring it out ourselves.

 

[Tommm]

Sorry to confuse.
The motor appears to be mounted in a type of band clamp to me. And the structure/strength of the swing arm is only this piece of bent round shaped metal where the motor is. That metal may be considered sheet metal as it does not look very thick. The mount of swing arm to the frame looked crude and not long enough to be strong enough. The part the bolt goes through. Twisting might occur here if anywhere. Seems like there should be some precision parts in this area. Some or a combination of Plasma cut or water jet or Cnc’d or cast parts. The prices for this stuff is low or reasonable and we’ve gotten use to better. I know it’s a budget bike frame. At some point we’re doing better here figuring it out ourselves.

Now I understand. Yes it can look thin from the side. But it is very wide and thick enough. The material is steel, about 10cm x 0.3cm. I do agree that it could be made thicker, and even wider ~15cm or length of the motor, the bolt included.
You can see it closer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBDZixtNaAE

There are not a lot of places the motor can go, without making a different frame. Options would be inside the frame(not possible without a different frame), under the frame (clearance problems). It is in the swingarm so the chain length stays constant.

 

[Skaiwerd]

I don’t know if this can be used with a side load, one on each side of the motor. If anyone remembers the gt idrive you know what I’m describing. The pedals frame and swingarm are all independent of each other

https://www.vxb.com/200mm-Lazy-Susan-Aluminum-Bearing-Turntable-p/kit12879.htm

I’ve had this bookmarked for years.

Single sided rear swing-arm, hummm.

 

[Lefre]

Oh. I didn't know they had distributors in the US. Assumed they were completely in China. Whoops. My fault.

Got my EEB frame from Mike Moser aka drchopper8 (chopee?) he's based in Philly. I think recently (like within the last two weeks) he struck a deal with vector from Europe to become a distributor for their frames.

 

[LexHammer]

Whats the difference between Coaxial and lets say BBSHD motor?

 

[Tommm]

Whats the difference between Coaxial and lets say BBSHD motor?

Coaxial needs a custom frame, similar to bafang ultra.
Or cut up an existing one like this guy.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2018/03/03/choppy-shloppy-build-your-own-ultra-max-specific-frame-and-get-riding-already/

Other difference is power. Coaxial can reliably handle about 3x the peak power as the bafang, it is a genuine 60mph motor. Which means if you want to feed it with enough batteries you would probably want a custom frame anyway.

 

[LexHammer]

Whats the difference between Coaxial and lets say BBSHD motor?

Coaxial needs a custom frame, similar to bafang ultra.
Or cut up an existing one like this guy.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2018/03/03/choppy-shloppy-build-your-own-ultra-max-specific-frame-and-get-riding-already/

Other difference is power. Coaxial can reliably handle about 3x the peak power as the bafang, it is a genuine 60mph motor. Which means if you want to feed it with enough batteries you would probably want a custom frame anyway.

What about efficency? Which one will make more range in equal conditions? And reliability? Is the motor of the Sur Ron Coaxial?

 

[Tommm]

What about efficency? Which one will make more range in equal conditions? And reliability? Is the motor of the Sur Ron Coaxial?

The range should be similar. I would say doing above 40A on the bbshd will have it starting to get saturated so it will be less efficient than a bigger motor. Reliability of the motor itself is pretty good and parts are available from cyclone for individuals unlike bafang.
Coaxial just means an ISIS or square tapered axle sticks out both sides of the motor so you can put a crank on it, so you pedal/pedal+motor/motor. The sur ron motor doesn't have a pedal attatched. There, the optional crank set just sticks to the swingarm.
The main difference would be the coaxial motor is really meant for motor only operation, the pas is extremely crude and optional. At power/speed levels above the bbshd any power your legs would add are miniscule. Just like the bbshd is a big shift towards a motorbike from a shop bought ebike, the coaxial is another big shift in the same direction.

 

[alexmaemur]

Hi,
Colleagues could you say what is weight of Cyclone 4kw coaxial bike?

May be you know weight of bike from first page this post?
or
you know weight of bike "coaxial eeb kit"

by Jamesavery22 » Apr 24 2019 2:04am

Has anyone ordered cyclone's coaxial eeb kit? Very curious about that setup.

.
I would like full weight bike+battery.
Thanks

 

[Tommm]

Hi,
Colleagues could you say what is weight of Cyclone 4kw coaxial bike?

May be you know weight of bike from first page this post?
or
you know weight of bike "coaxial eeb kit"

by Jamesavery22 » Apr 24 2019 2:04am

Has anyone ordered cyclone's coaxial eeb kit? Very curious about that setup.

.
I would like full weight bike+battery.
Thanks

I think a regular long travel mtb frame is about 3kg, old mtb sytle coaxial frame is 4 or 4.5kg. Motor is 5kg, controller is 1kg. Rest is standard bike component. So coaxial bike with be ~7kg heavier than standard mtb without battery, and same weight without battery as a big e-mtb with a battery ~22kg.


The eeb frame is about 11-12kg without motor, so it will be ~30kg without battery. This is why with big hub+battery eeb bikes are about 55kg with moto wheels 65kg.

 

[alexmaemur]

I think a regular long travel mtb frame is about 3kg, old mtb sytle coaxial frame is 4 or 4.5kg. Motor is 5kg, controller is 1kg. Rest is standard bike component. So coaxial bike with be ~7kg heavier than standard mtb without battery, and same weight without battery as a big e-mtb with a battery ~22kg.
The eeb frame is about 11-12kg without motor, so it will be ~30kg without battery. This is why with big hub+battery eeb bikes are about 55kg with moto wheels 65kg.

I ask about it seller and here his answer:
Elite bike without battery 26kg (simple fork 100mm and wheels 26,1)
battery 60v about 10
so 36kg
Frame Elite bike 14kg
Frame Enduro bike 18kg
so Enduro bike = 40kg
if you would like good fork + 1,5-2kg
if you would like 72v + 1kg
so 43kg
it is not strongly )) plus-minus

 

[Tommm]

I think a regular long travel mtb frame is about 3kg, old mtb sytle coaxial frame is 4 or 4.5kg. Motor is 5kg, controller is 1kg. Rest is standard bike component. So coaxial bike with be ~7kg heavier than standard mtb without battery, and same weight without battery as a big e-mtb with a battery ~22kg.
The eeb frame is about 11-12kg without motor, so it will be ~30kg without battery. This is why with big hub+battery eeb bikes are about 55kg with moto wheels 65kg.

I ask about it seller and here his answer:
Elite bike without battery 26kg (simple fork 100mm and wheels 26,1)
battery 60v about 10
so 36kg
Frame Elite bike 14kg
Frame Enduro bike 18kg
so Enduro bike = 40kg
if you would like good fork + 1,5-2kg
if you would like 72v + 1kg
so 43kg
it is not strongly )) plus-minus

Yes, about 7-8kg difference. I have a 10.5kg battery, 2kg controller with a big fork and my elite coaxial bike is 35kg. So he is speaking a bit on the high side.
I would never get an eeb frame unless I can register it as it is not stealth at all, with the elite frame you can have a small battery or backpack battery and will look like a factory pedelec. You only need 80 cells of 30Q (~4kg) to get 72v 80a 5400w peak with this bike. Then with gears you are 60mph capable.
I think it is a better product than the eeb bike as it brings something special. Not even luna have anything as powerful and as stealth as it. But you need to know what you are doing. Custom battery, 9 speed 50t casette, 30t narrow wide front, threadlocker everyehere it is needed etc. or it will be a maintenance problem. I use it to commute for 3 months now, 44km every day. Never broke down, rode past 20+ cops no issue. On weekends I put it on a train and go bike parking, no one at the train station says a word. They even let me in the bike parks.
Forget doing that with an eeb frame with moto seat and dual crown forks.

 

[alexmaemur]

... I use it to commute for 3 months now, 44km every day...

Thank you Tommm. It is very usefull notes. I haven't problem as you about stealth, but gravitation more and more when I go to 5 floor My calculation say - 35kg it is minimum, I must go to gym

 

[Tommm]

... I use it to commute for 3 months now, 44km every day...

Thank you Tommm. It is very usefull notes. I haven't problem as you about stealth, but gravitation more and more when I go to 5 floor My calculation say - 35kg it is minimum, I must go to gym

You should use the lift is possuble, park it diagonall, and lift the front to make it shorter. 5 floors is a lot, I sometimes push it up 2 floors a day at stations, it is slow and tiring.
If you have no choice, make the battery removable somehow and carry it seperately.

 

[alexmaemur]

You should use the lift is possuble, park it diagonall, and lift the front to make it shorter. 5 floors is a lot, I sometimes push it up 2 floors a day at stations, it is slow and tiring.
If you have no choice, make the battery removable somehow and carry it seperately.

Some people say bike can go up himself. It is't coaxial, it is cyclon 3000W.
I think he switches on first gear, low acceleration and go up by stairs together with bike.