LightningRods mid drive kit

[LightningRods]

well i simply assumed that if my systems gets to 82 kph (according to CA when wheel is up in the air) and i'm actually at 53 kph on the field, then i should expect a 35% drop and not 20.

A 48V 5 amp system would probably spin up to 82 kph with no load. Put it on the road and it's going to sag horribly. Do the same thing with a 48V 40 amp system and you will see far less sag and a much higher top speed.

 

[emaayan]

Doh! forgot about the extra amps.

 

[LightningRods]

call me crazy but, when a laser shop has MEETINGS and MANAGEMENT along with DISCUSS terms, that smells cumbersome to me.

plus they were for almost a week, and didn't bother some mass mailing their customers for the hold up????

Normally I'd be happy to call you crazy but I think you're correct on this one. :wink:

I got started with these guys because they're conveniently located and I had worked with the production manager at a sign shop some years back. Initially he was hand holding me and helping me figure out how to make my Adobe Illustrator artwork translate into AutoCad. I do feel some loyalty to them but I do to you guys as well and they are holding me back now.

I'll probably be more selective about what they do for me. I don't think they'll be getting all of my business in the future.

 

[LightningRods]

Doh! forgot about the extra amps.

With the gearing you have you need added amps more than volts.

Amps are also what will frag your Alfine so proceed with caution...

 

[LightningRods]

I just threw out the "take 20% off for loaded" because nobody is annoyed when a kit is a lttle faster than they calculated. If you are traveling around 40-MPH (64-kph), I would not be surprised to hear of a 20% drop in UN-loaded speed due to wind resistance of a non-lycra/non-fairing E-bike (plus pushing the weight of bike + rider).

Somewhere around mid speeds of 25-MPH (40-kph), I would imagine it's more likely to have nearer to 10% drop in UN-loaded speeds, due to pulling a load and wind resistance. At anything below 10-MPH (16-kph) I suspect there would be almost only a very small difference in speed, loaded or unloaded (wind resistance negligible?).

I was disagreeing with Emaayan on his loaded speed drops. I don't know what was wrong with his previous setup but the performance sucked. The only thing I can figure is that he wasn't getting a decent amp draw on it.

 

[teslanv]

http://www.lcnw.com/

I just called them and talked to a sales rep. They're saying 4-5 days lead time instead of 3 weeks plus. I'm going to start splitting my orders. Half local and half shipped to WA state. We'll see how things work out for time, quality and cost.

I am sick of being held up by delays from this local cutter. When your suppliers are unreliable, you're unreliable.

Thanks for the referral, Teslanv!

Happy I could help. John Shoemaker at LCNW has always been good to me.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I am sick of being held up by delays from this local cutter

I am sure you will need two suppliers for any critical part very soon. Good to find them now, instead of after the hurricane starts...

 

[LightningRods]

Are you implying that there is a larger world out there?

 

[Mammalian04]

Mike, what are your thoughts on using the Adaptto MaxE + Adaptto BMS for your big block kit?

I really like the MaxE+BMS charging solution and I already have 2 MaxE systems ordered. I know this would take away from the plug and play nature of the LR/Lyen kit but it might save me some headache on the Battery BMS side too (that is the challenge I am stuck on right now).

If I order a battery from supower or em3ev, I need to decide if a BMS is to be integrated (wired up for PnP connector to Adaptto BMS or alternative non adaptto hardwired into the pack.

As an added benefit, if wired up with the right connectors, maybe it could be a pretty simple swap from the Cromotor wheel to the standard wheel and mid-drive as my needs change for different biking trips.

 

[stonezone]

what would be a better battery setup for the big block and the small block between the two on my Nomad?

18s4p 66.6V 20000mAh
or
12s4p 44.4V 30000mAh

Also, I'll be running 7 speed in the rear, what would be a good size single front to run?

I'm getting excited....

 

[LightningRods]

Much of the function of the Adaptto BMS seems redundant to the Lyen controller and CA3. I'll run it by Lyen and see what he thinks of running it with his controller.

I haven't used a discharge BMS myself. I've relied on inexpensive LED readouts plugged into the balance leads to keep an eye on individual cell voltages. They usually stay pretty consistent unless you have a sick cell.

 

[LightningRods]

what would be a better battery setup for the big block and the small block between the two on my Nomad?

18s4p 66.6V 20000mAh
or
12s4p 44.4V 30000mAh

Also, I'll be running 7 speed in the rear, what would be a good size single front to run?

I'm getting excited....

It's pretty much like any e-bike. Do you want max power or max range? If I were to assign one pack to one motor and the other pack to the other motor, I'd go 18s 20 ah for the small block and 12s 30 ah for the big block. Either motor would work great with both packs but the small block needs to rev to make power and the big block can just grunt it out on raw amps. I'd also expect the big block to have a bigger appetite so more capacity is good.

Run the biggest sprockets front and rear that will fit your bike. You want a big tooth count to spread the torque load out over. I'd go with a 48T on the front if it would fit. There are larger chainwheels but they're not common and I don't have a guard for the 52Ts.

 

[sparkz]

LR -

Don't be too concerned about supply-chain problems at this stage in your business empire. You are serving a crowd of highly-motivated, passionate investors in a product that only a talented visionary can supply. We will wait patiently, whinning quietly, for a uniquely engineered product that is "done right". When you start selling to Walmart, then you can worry about your suppliers.

 

[LightningRods]

I honestly have been amazed at how patient people from E-S have been. This is still a very special community. People believe that if you are a part of "the group" that you must be okay. I sincerely hope that no one violates this trust and changes that culture. It's a great place for good things to happen.

I have no idea if I will be able to make the jump and become a legit manufacturing company. At this point you have a couple of old guys who have been riding bicycles and motorcycles together since they were 7 years old hand making parts for you in their garages. A lot of making these parts fit and work is us fussing over every one of them.

I'm trying to move six complete kits through my shop this week. I have a good start on it and I think I'll get them shipped by week's end.

 

[teslanv]

The real question is "Is this worth your time?"
I think it is safe to say we recognize the superior quality and attention to detail of your kits, and are willing to wait a bit to get it.

 

[givitago]

what are your thoughts on using the Adaptto MaxE + Adaptto BMS

I was wondering about this too because that looks like another really innovative product. I noticed a question about that controller on the Adaptto thread asking how it works with gear motors as I got the impression it uses the motor halls as a speedometer. I didn't see any connector for an external speed sensor. I didn't see a response to that question so maybe it is for DD only??

 

[givitago]

A lot of making these parts fit and work is us fussing over every one of them

And I'm sure I can speak for everyone when I say we really appreciate that effort!

 

[LightningRods]

The real question is "Is this worth your time?"
I think it is safe to say we recognize the superior quality and attention to detail of your kits, and are willing to wait a bit to get it.

I'm loving my new life making e-bike parts. I feel like it's totally worth my time because it keeps me completely interested at all times. I love hearing from people every day (well, maybe not the ones bitching at me that it's been TWO WHOLE WEEKS since they placed their order and their kit still hasn't arrived). Compared to the life I had as a commercial artist this is a dream.

Every generation of parts I make will be better than the one before. Since I assemble my own designs I get to experience my own bad decisions over and over. I know real quick that a carriage bolt here or a few more millimeters of clearance there would make all of the difference. People who design things that other people build and repair never have that experience.

 

[LightningRods]

what are your thoughts on using the Adaptto MaxE + Adaptto BMS

I was wondering about this too because that looks like another really innovative product. I noticed a question about that controller on the Adaptto thread asking how it works with gear motors as I got the impression it uses the motor halls as a speedometer. I didn't see any connector for an external speed sensor. I didn't see a response to that question so maybe it is for DD only??

I can't say. The C-A uses a magnetic sensor on the front wheel for speed. I'm really happy with the CA3/Lyen solution so I'm hesitant to get pulled off course into another adventure. If these are competing products for now I'll choose the CA3 and Lyen controller.

Giveitago recently received L-R kit #2. I assume that a build thread is emerging somewhere on E-S.

 

[waynebergman]

Yes LR, Ron has placed his thread link at the very start of this thread with the others. I hope mine will be there some day too.

 

[Mammalian04]

Gentleman, I need to get a new rear wheel ordered up for this kit. Any suggestions on a rear hub to fit the Raptor 140's 165mm dropout?
I'd like to match my blue Hope Pro2 Evo hub going up front but it looks like the widest rear hub Hope makes is 142mm. Am I looking at this correctly or can axles be replaced and spacers inserted for the difference (i.e. 165mm-142mm = 17mm in spacers).

Also Mike, I have not received a response from Ziva on the Qulbix controller mounting area dimensions but hopefully she will get to it soon.

Also, posted a question in the Adaptto MaxE Controller thread about using the controller with a mid-drive. We'll see what response comes but. Thread is here if anyone is interested: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61183&p=918027#p918032

 

[LightningRods]

The Qulbix is a nice bike. They'd be crazy to turn their noses up at a mid drive option for their bikes.

Another busy day today. Moving six small block kits forward plus a big block. Steve and I are also working on the driver sprocket conversion for the chain drive GNGs. I have it figured out. It will be as simple as threading it on to your GNG chain drive motor shaft. The billet aluminum pulley will have a 16mm diameter steel core. As the motor runs it will tighten everything into place.

The laser shop says Thursday or Friday for the stretch brackets so I'm figuring Friday. My next order goes to LCNW in Washington state. They say 4 to 5 days turnaround. That would be awesome.

 

[teslanv]

The laser shop says Thursday or Friday for the stretch brackets so I'm figuring Friday. My next order goes to LCNW in Washington state. They say 4 to 5 days turnaround. That would be awesome.

Curious how LCNW's pricing was compared to your other shop...

 

[LightningRods]

We haven't gotten to that point yet. I'll probably have to order a refill of parts I've had done here in order to compare. Unless it's ridiculously more I won't even care. I'm fed up with having customers mad at me because my suppliers won't perform.

 

[teslanv]

I know they charge by linear inches and material thickness. I think it's pretty much based on machine time.
I generally provide them a DXF drawing, and they can crank out an estimate in a day or so.
What program are you using to generate your parts drawings? (I use AutoCAD 2012) - If you need help with any CAD work let me know. I'm pretty proficient in AutoCAD, and will work for parts