Loaded Tesseract Carbon Single VESC 6355 10S4P

[whitepony]

after several fail resin coats I sanded down EVERYTHING and started over. this weekend I finished my work and Im really happy this time. shouldve left the board as it was in the first place, but guess trial and error is what makes life interesting.

what did i do? vacuum laminate board & case once more and then simply 30min sanding by hand with 1000grit paper under water.

I kept thinking quite some time about what to do with the m4 inserts and what to do with the motor wire channel. finally I used wax/plastilin to cover all holes, laminated over it, carefully examined the surface to find the wholes after the resin had cured and drilled the wholes open again. I gotta say - some of them were BARELY visible, I helped myself with the enclosure a little bit and to my suprise I found ALL inserts on first try, so it looks extremely clean now!


gorgeous surface with the neatly hidden M4 inserts under the 2nd carbon layer:

motor wire channel - its still sliiiightly bent, but a lot less than on my first try:

*gasp*

the enclosure:

with the 3 holes for my loop key & charger:

extremely flat, I think you cannot go further really unless you go mad with routing on the board:

the hidden inserts are really beautiful.

same hole without a screw:

the enclosure 4mm gold connectors are fixated with something new I wanted to try since months: sugru! -> https://sugru.com its like clay and dries up to become some semi-hard flexible connection. tomorrow ill know more

there we go - same connections like in version 1:

motor wires inserted into the channel and vesc simply soldered onto the wires. I needed a flexible connection - with gold connectors I wouldve had too many stiff elements in the chain.

new vicious grip tape and trucks back on - guess I might have to shorten the motor wires a little, but Ill skip that for now. the longer the wires are, the less strain on the motor wire exit. killed one engine already with too short motor wires, doesnt need to happen again!

and thats it:

 

[okp]

awesome - great job. It's all about learning by failure and you're right... this is what make it interesting.

 

[Squad]

AMAZING! Looks really clean now. Interesting stuff, this sugru thing, I'll have to try it some day.

 

[Rikobonito]

insane perfection you puts us in full view Love it !

 

[WeeChumlee]

Seriously cool whitepony. Really nice work, gotta respect that.
I would be interested to hear how the VESC performs with that single motor, do you plan to hook up a laptop to see the values while being ridden?
Like to compare with my findings.

 

[whitepony]

Seriously cool whitepony. Really nice work, gotta respect that.
I would be interested to hear how the VESC performs with that single motor, do you plan to hook up a laptop to see the values while being ridden?
Like to compare with my findings.

Im running the single vesc on my tesseract since a while now - 60A motor, 60A battery, nunchuck with kp and ki values for speedcontrol: 0.002 (which were the most important parameters). rest stock stuff really! unlike with my trampa, I have zero heat issues and zero engine issues, always quite a punch, easily getting to max theoretical speed! :?


finalized the board this morning before work. decided to shave off the carbon sidewalls to give it a more natural look so it will be less suspicious. at the same time I found that the carbon at the sides added quite a bit stiffness to the board, when I removed them it was perfect flex again.

did my first commute to my job then and sadly had SERIOUS reception issues with the nunchuck. turned around the receiver/vesc inside the case already without changes. gotta be the conducting carbon Im not sure what to do now - worst case Id need the receiver module outside the case or ill go gt2b, but I really LOVE the cruise control. bleh :| :| :|

noticed that you had a gt2b receiver cable dangling outside your tesseract enclosure and I remember you said you liked the nunchuck with vesc for cruising. did you have similar issues, okp?

 

[WeeChumlee]

Thanks whitepony.
Beginning to think it is the VESC itself then. Bummer.
Ah well, I have the MAX6 in there now and power and speed are back, just really loud braking.
Not sure what to do with the VESC now, build another board or just keep it as a spare?
Probably build another

I see you have heat shrink over your heat sinks (look very similar to mine).
I presume you will remove that, or do you intend to run it like that?

 

[bandaro]

Bummer to hear about the finish issue you had with the carbon, what resin are you using? If you are having major issues like this again, shoot me a line and I'll see what can be done.

Otherwise, the setup looks really sweet, how thick are your batteries? I have my all inclusive deck to fit 26mm batteries so it looks thicker than yours? As for the edges, it's also a great look to round the underside edges to give the pale timber edges that frame the board.

Bummer to hear about those connectivity issues, I've never had an issue with my gt2 and carbon decks. Used a few of them with varying amounts of carbon too. You/others might be able to avoid this in future by replacing that section with fibreglass instead? Used fibreglass before as a nonferrous alternative in construction applications, such as external wall panels to house mobile transmitter towers in the city.

 

[whitepony]

Thanks whitepony.
Beginning to think it is the VESC itself then. Bummer.

I see you have heat shrink over your heat sinks (look very similar to mine).
I presume you will remove that, or do you intend to run it like that?

I also thought its my german vescs on my trampa, because I never had ANY issues at all with my tesseract vesc (enertion), but Im not convinced yet, way too many variables in the mix

where is your vesc from?

about my heat sinks: I left them shrink tubed, they just act as a larger reservoir for when a heat spike is coming in, e.g. from accelerating from stand still.

Bummer to hear about the finish issue you had with the carbon, what resin are you using? If you are having major issues like this again, shoot me a line and I'll see what can be done.

Otherwise, the setup looks really sweet, how thick are your batteries? I have my all inclusive deck to fit 26mm batteries so it looks thicker than yours? As for the edges, it's also a great look to round the underside edges to give the pale timber edges that frame the board.

Bummer to hear about those connectivity issues, I've never had an issue with my gt2 and carbon decks. Used a few of them with varying amounts of carbon too. You/others might be able to avoid this in future by replacing that section with fibreglass instead? Used fibreglass before as a nonferrous alternative in construction applications, such as external wall panels to house mobile transmitter towers in the city.

I used r-g.de resin L20 with hardener EPH 161, think I just did things wrong - first too cold, then too hot and exploding, I dont even see a reason to add another 50g resin when the surface even without resin looks awesome

my batteries are just 18650 cells, so its quite exactly 18mm thick, with shrink tube probably 20mm!

I ordered 2 mini remotes from aliexpress (like others), will just drop the nunchuck now, even though I love the cruise control button. 8)

 

[WeeChumlee]

@ whitepony
My VESC is from GErmany as well. Paid the premium for "made in Germany" (160 Euro is pretty steep for a ESC) but this may have been a mistake.
As you say though, can't say for sure it is the VESC so don't want to knock it before I am sure.

 

[rmrf]

@ whitepony
My VESC is from GErmany as well. Paid the premium for "made in Germany" (160 Euro is pretty steep for a ESC) but this may have been a mistake.

I am also starting seeing a pattern. If only you could find someone who can say exactly what is wrong with the VESC

 

[randyc1]

Whitepony do you have any concerns about flex in the battery pack ?
..., im thinking of building a pack with one of the Series connections, closest to middle of board made from a flexible 10G wire, allowing some flex ?

 

[whitepony]

Whitepony do you have any concerns about flex in the battery pack ?
..., im thinking of building a pack with one of the Series connections, closest to middle of board made from a flexible 10G wire, allowing some flex ?

im not worried about flex, its still a stiff board. still, I think its a good idea to allow it to flex a little. can be done like you suggested or by rotating the 18650 cells by 90°. that way series connections can be made by short nickel strips only and - & + pole arrive at the same side of a battery. Imo that setup is perfect for a 12S3P for example, less perfect for 10S4P because the battery becomes too wide!

meanwhile I spend 2 days trying to figure out my odd signal drops. managed to repair my gt2b and experienced the same behavior. after switching engine, vesc, battery I finally started to place the receiver more carefull, receiver <-> vesc connection far away from currents, antenna far away from currents and outside and now it finally works. been driving the first 50km with my board by now without a single signal drop.

but even with that in mind and careful positioning of the nunchuck receiver, it was not possible to go without signal drops in the carbon enclosure. too bad, but gt2b is nice too for cruising anyway

 

[whitepony]

btw: weight of the board is now 7.1kg - lost some for the enclosure and all the wood, gained some for the 15mm!

an additional insight: after laminating one more carbon layer on the enclosure I have to say: 1 layer fiber and 3 layer carbon is MUCH better than 2 layer carbon. if I had to do it again, I would again go for 3 layers, since the whole thing just becomes so much more stable, especially at the edges that you attach to the board!

 

[whitepony]

I REALLY dont know why I keep trying the kegels. guess I want them to be good cause they look cool, but god, the 90mm abecs are just so much better for cruising, carving, highspeed and all that on basically any surface.

abec my love, screw kegels!!

still got the 36T drive gears from my topspeed on them - and for some reason torqueboards made them 12mm wide or even a little wider - basically they fit the 15mm belt quite well, only lacking 1, max 2mm!

 

[Rikobonito]

+1 Flywheels
Love your build sooooooooo much !!!
Beautifull once again

 

[whitepony]

thx hehe

I ran the board another 2 battery charges yesterday, also did a topspeed check. originally, I wanted to run 15/36T with 80mm kegels, assuming that a single motor cant really deal with much wider gearing and higher top speed and now its actually 16/36T with 90mm abecs. well, bottom line is: the torque suffers a little when starting, I definitely notice it on hills, but at the same time throttle becomes naturally more smooth and yesterday I recorded 45kph GPS speed consistently (theoretical speed 52kph). and all that with a single 6355, gotta say I was pretty suprised ... not that I would need 50kph. again I noticed how I stopped carving around the 40kph mark.

Overall Im really happy with the 16T pulley and most of all with the 15mm belt - didnt have a single belt slip and I really tried to provoke it.

Im worried about the enclosure though - the mounting holes in the enclosure already show some wear along the skateboard axis. Im wondering now if I need to tighten the screws a lot more to use the surface pressure enclosure<->board to safely eliminate enclosure movement or if I simply shouldve reinforced the mounting holes. for example gfk/cfk race fairings for motorbikes ALWAYS have kevlar reinforcements around the mounting holes. I can see myself making a new enclosure very soon if the wear continues. :?

in retrospect of my 3 DIY boards and my evolve carbon my advice to any fresh touring/commute focused e-skateboarder:

1x 6374 motor
1x vesc
15mm belt
90mm 75A abecs
around 400Wh battery
and my rubber cylinder type enclosure for accessibility, longevity, battery flex protection and minimum impact on the boards flex! that enclosure type really has next to no drawbacks and has never ever shown any sign of wear and tear, its extremely accessible and extremely cheap, at the same time also pretty lightweight.

 

[Rikobonito]

Thx for the feedback !!!
True this little pretty 6355 is a beast
like your spec

 

[randyc1]

Why do you recommend the Single 6374,...is it to have the same gearing 16T,36T and still have good torque on hills ?

 

[whitepony]

Why do you recommend the Single 6374,...is it to have the same gearing 16T,36T and still have good torque on hills ?

yea! even though I dont carve much anymore at 40kph+, its still kinda cool every now and then to go 50kph straight. the 6355 gives up fairly early with 45 from the theoretical 52kph. originally I thought "go with 6355 single and if it sucks, you just add another 6355 and be done with it". after my experience now with the minimum steering impulses on single drives, the 15mm belt and the smaller (and cheaper) electronic package, Im really a fan of a single drive. probably Ill order another sk6374 and go single without compromise.

meanwhile I started working on enclosure v3. v1 was the one with the fail-foam that gave in. on v2, one of the holes for the screws finally tore open today after some board abuse, so now I made the enclosure 2mm taller and I will skip the neoprene band. instead the enclosure will sit directly on the board with some slim double adhesive tape and the 8 screws. I can then really tighten up the screws, so that the surface pressure will be the fixating factor and not the screw-hole in the enclosure.

additionally I added a few more layers just for the small rim that connects to the board. cut out gfk and cfk stripes so that the overall enclosure is still 1x gfk, 3x carbon, but the connecting lip is 3x gfk and 4x carbon. also ill leave a slightly larger rim this time - more meat to deal with physical strain!

 

[206monkey32]

I may have asked this before but I can't seem to find it....where are you sourcing a 15mm drive pully here in Europa?

 

[whitepony]

i still had them from my topspeed (diyelectricskateboard), but aliendrivesystems sells them too!

 

[whitepony]

enclosure V3 is done, its now 2mm taller to account for the missing neoprene band. also I left the rim much wider to give the mounting holes more stability PLUS the gfk & cfk layers have nearly doubled, but only for the rim area.

some elegance is lost right away with the 2mm height increase and the wide rim - but in the end form follows function.

currently sugru is curing for the 3x 4mm connectors inside and then Im ready for further testing.

 

[randyc1]

I'm Impressed !!

 

[whitepony]

ah well, done once more - think if that case doesnt hold up Ill really go back to rubber tubes.

main issue of a strongly bonded case is that it affects the board flex and its under a lot of stress. there isnt really a way to get around that. its obviously less of a problem if you have a dead board, but I dont like that. :?

anyway, enough carbon dust and resin inhaled for a while, need a break from tweaking the tesseract: