Looking for info about Revolt motors

Looking forward to see what this can do. Sounds like a perfect motor for a Trials bike.
 
I did some work on the bike during the week. Made a motormount out of aluminum plate, and made some shaft/bushing parts to fit the centrifugal clutch.
The motormount has bearingsupport for the shaft on the "free end", and an aluminum plate with countersunk screws on the motors mountingspot, to get the clutch as close to the motor as possible.

Originally I didnt intend to go for a clutch but decided to try a "gocart" centrifugal clutch anyway.
This clutch is bidirectional and had engagement at ~2200rpm with the stock spring.
This was about as fast as the revolt would spin at full throttle, so I wasnt sure if the transfered torque would be enough even if i changed the spring to a very soft one.
However, to my big surprise, the clutch works ace. Grips soft but with authority when throttling up.

I did some testrunning with the motor temporarily mounted just to make sure the drive works.
Can not speak for the performance of the revolt yet, but it feels strong and runs smooth and stays cold. The bikeframe itself had some issue so I didnt wanna risk going too fast.
Only went around 30km/h or close to 20mph.
This first run was done with the battbox from my other bike with a CC160 esc inside. DId not try the supplied controller yet.

Sorry for the crappy pic, only had a gopro available. (I am still using a dumbphone) I had some more photos of the work on the motormount and shatstuff, but they were too dark.
Will have to remeber a proper camera for the next session.
 
Thanks for the info Wheazel.

You are running on ~ 44V nominal?

Looking forward to seeing more of your mount, drivetrain etc.
 
There remains little doubt that the RV-120 has lots of power. We ran it with the stock controller and three old and relatively small lead acid batteries wired in series (36V) and were able to accelerate an approximately 500 pound load from a standstill to about 15MPH in a matter of seconds. The motor was mounted in a very small "truck", with each shaft end affixed to 7 inch wheels, which moved the load. There was a bit of stuttering when starting from a dead stop, but we were doing the testing using a standard (cheap chinese hall effect) ebike half-twist grip throttle, without worrying too much about what throttle voltages the controller was getting, so there may be dead zones, etc. Also, this model is sensorless, and Alexey.K has told us that it might make more sense to use the hall effect sensored version for our particular application -- and suggesting, apparently, that he could make such a version available. We did bursts of testing lasting 10-15 minutes each, and never managed to get anything but a very slight warming of either the motor or the controller. If anything, our supply wires (either 12 or 14 gauge stranded) were warm to the touch, but not yet problematic.

I'm thinking of getting another RV, the "100" this time, with Hall sensors (if already available) just for comparison. Space (not weight) is critical for our app, and the RV-120 seems to have more than enough power. So far, our biggest challenge has been to fasten the direct drive (solid aluminum) wheels directly to the 15mm keyed shaft in as little space as possible. I tried to attach a photo, but my 2.5 meg photo was rejected by the ES server (apparently 512Kb is the limit). Will try to rescale the photo and send later.

If there's any bad news about this motor, I haven't found it yet. I just hope that Alexey, who is in Israel, doesn't have his "factory" in the path of any Hamas rockets.
 
I did have an email chat with Mr. Lyen, and he strongly recommended converting these to sensored, even if you have to go to an external mount....

Hopefully some enterprising person here will design make them for sale, or that internal mounting will be fairly easy; I may not have ordered the R-120 (which is still apparently still in Israel three weeks after Alexey shipped it) if I had realized that it was sensorless.... or at least would have asked for a sensored version, and waited if such was forthcoming.

Maybe Wheazel's idea of using a centrifugal clutch would reduce the stuttering on startup on the standard sensorless versions.?.?. I have one of the larger Comet type torque converters laying around.
 
riba2233 said:
..... Alexey told me that there is rv120 sensored version already available, and rv100 can also be done.
Click to expand...
I wish I had known that ahead of time.
He ought to put that info on his website.
 
There's supposed to be a way around hall sensors, haven't been able to learn about them.

http://www.phoenixamerica.com/products/encoders/default.html

I think I remember Mr. Physics mentioning something like this on the Deathbike. I don't know what the controller situation is. My thought is that you'd only need a low resolution encoder.
 
Mr. Lyen mentioned these external adapters, but the biggest they have are for 80MM diameters:
http://e0designs.com/products/hall-effect-sensor-adapter/
 
rowbiker said:
There remains little doubt that the RV-120 has lots of power. We ran it with the stock controller and three old and relatively small lead acid batteries wired in series (36V) and were able to accelerate an approximately 500 pound load from a standstill to about 15MPH in a matter of seconds. The motor was mounted in a very small "truck", with each shaft end affixed to 7 inch wheels, which moved the load. There was a bit of stuttering when starting from a dead stop, but we were doing the testing using a standard (cheap chinese hall effect) ebike half-twist grip throttle, without worrying too much about what throttle voltages the controller was getting, so there may be dead zones, etc. Also, this model is sensorless, and Alexey.K has told us that it might make more sense to use the hall effect sensored version for our particular application -- and suggesting, apparently, that he could make such a version available. We did bursts of testing lasting 10-15 minutes each, and never managed to get anything but a very slight warming of either the motor or the controller. If anything, our supply wires (either 12 or 14 gauge stranded) were warm to the touch, but not yet problematic.

I'm thinking of getting another RV, the "100" this time, with Hall sensors (if already available) just for comparison. Space (not weight) is critical for our app, and the RV-120 seems to have more than enough power. So far, our biggest challenge has been to fasten the direct drive (solid aluminum) wheels directly to the 15mm keyed shaft in as little space as possible. I tried to attach a photo, but my 2.5 meg photo was rejected by the ES server (apparently 512Kb is the limit). Will try to rescale the photo and send later.

If there's any bad news about this motor, I haven't found it yet. I just hope that Alexey, who is in Israel, doesn't have his "factory" in the path of any Hamas rockets.
Click to expand...

That's great news! I was actually talking with HelpfulGuy on another thread about using an RV120 in place of dual C80100s, at power ratings somewhere north of 10kW peak, and being able to do 0-15 in a few seconds with a 500lb load on just 36V direct-drive sounds like some pretty amazing performance. I'm wondering whether the RV120 can put up with a 200A peak current and something like 80-100A continuous; if so then running this thing at 72V with a decent gear reduction is going to be absolutely amazing. I was actually looking at doing something like that for a high-powered mid-drive build based on a platform similar to a souped-up Qulbix Raptor.

@Dauntless: If you run a field-oriented controller like the Lebowski box it's possible to avoid using Hall sensors while still getting decent startup torque.

@RLT: I know the guy who runs that site; Charles runs off the Hall sensor adapters on 3D printers he has access to. He'd need a sample motor to work with, but in theory if these caught on (and either I bought one or someone shipped one to him) I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to offer adapter brackets for Revolt motors as well.
 
ARod1993 said:
...@RLT: I know the guy who runs that site; Charles runs off the Hall sensor adapters on 3D printers he has access to. He'd need a sample motor to work with, but in theory if these caught on (and either I bought one or someone shipped one to him) I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to offer adapter brackets for Revolt motors as well.
Click to expand...

Cool...
I'd be glad to loan him mine (if I ever get it.. I expected it would take more than a month to arrive, but it hasn't even left Israel yet).
 
RLT said:
ARod1993 said:
...@RLT: I know the guy who runs that site; Charles runs off the Hall sensor adapters on 3D printers he has access to. He'd need a sample motor to work with, but in theory if these caught on (and either I bought one or someone shipped one to him) I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to offer adapter brackets for Revolt motors as well.
Click to expand...

Cool...
I'd be glad to loan him mine (if I ever get it.. I expected it would take more than a month to arrive, but it hasn't even left Israel yet).
Click to expand...
That must be because of the current situation there, didn't have any issues either with the contactors or the Meanwells I got from Israel.
Where do you see them against other outrunners? RV120 = 1/2 Colossus (air cooled)? Against CA120?
I assume the controllers are Xiechang or similar.
 
marcexec said:
That must be because of the current situation there, didn't have any issues either with the contactors or the Meanwells I got from Israel.
Click to expand...

Could be, although things didn't really (REALLY) heat up until abut a week after Alexey put it in the mail.
My fault though.. He recommended EMS.. And it is still three weeks before the outside end of what he estimated it would take to get here, so I have no real gripe.


Where do you see them against other outrunners? RV120 = 1/2 Colossus (air cooled)? Against CA120? I assume the controllers are Xiechang or similar.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty clueless about all those outrunners and inrunners and the sort of things the RC crowd knows about. My only direct experience is with a couple of brushless Crystalite hub motors and brushed type hub and industrial type ones
 
RLT said:
ARod1993 said:
...@RLT: I know the guy who runs that site; Charles runs off the Hall sensor adapters on 3D printers he has access to. He'd need a sample motor to work with, but in theory if these caught on (and either I bought one or someone shipped one to him) I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to offer adapter brackets for Revolt motors as well.
Click to expand...

Cool...
I'd be glad to loan him mine (if I ever get it.. I expected it would take more than a month to arrive, but it hasn't even left Israel yet).
Click to expand...

Update; I talked to Charles this morning and he told me that he'd be more than happy to use a loaner RV-120 (from you or anyone else who wants to send him one) for the purposes of designing a Hall sensor adapter and board. :D
 
Great! I'll post on this thread when (if) mine arrives, and you can give me his contact info, or you can give him mine.

Maybe he would be interested in joining E-S, and contributing on this and other threads on his areas of interest and expertise?
 
RLT said:
Great! I'll post on this thread when (if) mine arrives, and you can give me his contact info, or you can give him mine.

Maybe he would be interested in joining E-S, and contributing on this and other threads on his areas of interest and expertise?
Click to expand...

No problem; poke me when the motor comes in and I'll give you his mailing address. As to Charles on Endless-Sphere he already lurks here, and since he keeps track of where the hits on Equals Zero and his blog come from he's definitely quite familiar with it. I have no idea if he has an account, but I'll poke him about it when I run into him next.
 
I have had some more progress and some more trying out the revolt motor. Here is the bike it sits on:
Bike1_zps6068b511.jpg


The most just testride I have made so far is presented on these CA photos. Half the distance was bumpy gravelroad, and there are some hills aswell, but I am returning to the startingpoint at the end, so no net climb or decsent. Wheelangles and the front mechanism is very prototypish and not perfect which also eats some power. I have the CA limited to 29A, have tried without limit aswell (centrifugal clutch becomes the limit more or less). The Revolt seem to get warm under most driving conditions. I have experienced close to 50C on the case, havent had a tempgun for the windings available. Ambient temp has been high during tests, around 30C. The most power I have seen with no limit in the CA is close to 3kW. The motor operates at a very low noiselevel, barely hearable as the speed picks up. (Very satisfied with this) So the only conclusion I can draw so far, is that the motor seems like a good match for my bike. It is probably not the most efficient motor, but it seem to be far from bad.
Bike4_zps9a071118.jpg

Bike3_zpsd8ea7974.jpg

Bike2_zpsccb81e25.jpg



Also a pic of the back wheel in the air and motor at full throttle. I was surprised by this low consumption. This is the motor at top rpm, wheel spinning with 65km/h equiv. rpm and also pulling the pedal cranks around as I dont have another freewheel for them yet. This is far below what my smaller ebike pulls at unloaded full throttle with a 150kv ~1000g Turnigy motor.
Bike5_zps39bf94dd.jpg


So far I am happy about this motor, it runs nice! What I would change is to get the slipper centrifugal clutch to "bite" alittle bit more.
After it got worn in abit its more smooth but also more slippery. This is with a 49kv motor. The stock rv100 is 57kv if i recall.
 
Great info, Thank you.
Interesting machine you have it on.

My motor is still sitting in the Haifa post office. :-(
 
I also ordered an 45kv Rv-100 motor, looking forward to play with it :D
 
Here is some Revolt 120 porn for you:

Revolt1.jpg


Armature diameter 112.13mm. 12 teeth; 45mm X 26.1mm, Looks like wound with 5 wires of 20ga.. Phases 120° apart, Phase wires 10Ga Silicone.
Revolt2.jpg


Laminations are .5mm thick, 90 of them:
Revolt3.jpg


The gaps between the teeth seem a little too tight to fit a hall sensor between them (assuming that is electrically correct) without dangerous grinding. Assuming that one could practically mount the halls inside the motor, you would have to pull out the phase wires and enlarge the holes a bit, drill some new holes or use REAL thin gauge wire... The thinnest insulated wire I have handy is 26ga, and even with some prying I couldn't get it through te existing holes
Revolt5.jpg
.....
Revolt6.jpg


The large bearing between the motor mount ring and the housing is 58mm OD, 45mmID and 7mm thick.
The shaft bearings are 60002Z (we already know that the shaft on the 120 is 15mm Dia.

Revolt7.jpg


There are 14 magnets, 50.85mm X 45mm. (One of them slid out when I pulled out the armature.. have since glued it back where it belongs.


Revolt8.jpg


The motor housing / magnet carrier is 125mm diameter, just a tad under 5 inches, and 90mm / 3 5/8 inches wide.

Revolt9.jpg


The end plates are 6.0mm thick on the motor mount end, and 6.20 mm thick on the other end.
They are secured by 6X each of 3mm allen head bolts 7.33mm OAL.

Revolt4.jpg


These small bolts are pretty soft, are 'loctited' in pretty well (one was crossthreaded too.), and even with Kroil seeping in for a few hours, and a judicious application of a heat gun, one on each end stripped out and required cutting a slot with a cutoff disk for a regular screwdriver to remove, and the cross threaded one needed vice grips too.

This is the first time I've touched an outrunner motor, so it took a while for me to even figure out how it worked, mechanically.

I foolishly thought that the rotor was locked, the bearings bad, or a foreign object blocking rotation, until i accidentally figured out that the only thing that you can turn by hand is the motor mount, until you mount it, then the whole motor and the shaft spins when mounted properly.

Let me know if there are any questions, while it is still apart
 
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