MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

I didn't know you could sell the stator and axle as one piece, wow.
That makes my life easier. Plus the upgraded phase wires; that's awesome. I had to hack my phase wire upgrade apart

See, this is why i like cell_man's MAC hookup; if it wasn't for the ability to get these various parts needed, i'd be running a DD or something else. This motor is worth sinking the money into. Suppose i'll have to be nicer to it next time around.. or run two :mrgreen:
 
neptronix said:
I didn't know you could sell the stator and axle as one piece, wow.
That makes my life easier. Plus the upgraded phase wires; that's awesome. I had to hack my phase wire upgrade apart

See, this is why i like cell_man's MAC hookup; if it wasn't for the ability to get these various parts needed, i'd be running a DD or something else. This motor is worth sinking the money into. Suppose i'll have to be nicer to it next time around.. or run two :mrgreen:
Click to expand...


Haha that's the stuff! :D

There's plenty of life left in her yet!

2 mac's ? Oh boy that would be insane! You would wan some pretty strong forks for that! :mrgreen:
 
neptronix said:
I didn't know you could sell the stator and axle as one piece, wow.
That makes my life easier. Plus the upgraded phase wires; that's awesome. I had to hack my phase wire upgrade apart

See, this is why i like cell_man's MAC hookup; if it wasn't for the ability to get these various parts needed, i'd be running a DD or something else. This motor is worth sinking the money into. Suppose i'll have to be nicer to it next time around.. or run two :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

It's a little tricky to fit the stator, but not too bad. The only small thing is that the wires are normally epoxied down, but I can't do that or you will not be able to assemble it. Will have to have a think about it and see if there's any way that the high temp epoxy can be included.

To remove the stator, you need to:
1. remove the complete gear assembly
2. remove the shaft support (aluminium section in the centre of the motor with 6 screws). No need to completely remove, just move it out of the way to get access underneath. Remove the 6 screw and the circlip which secures it to the shaft.
3. remove the large circlip which secures the yoke to the large bearing in the centre of the stator which is located behind the shaft support
4. screw the shaft support back into the stator and fit the circlip which holds it onto the shaft.
5. you should now be able to knock the stator from the yoke, but it will not be easy. A large gear puller would be best. You could just knock it out by striking the axle onto a hard surface, but be careful you don't loose any skin if the stator snaps back in. Some tough work gloves would be a good idea.

Anyways, we'll get something sorted for you :)

I couldn't view your earlier pics for some reason, would be interested to see what has happened.

Cheers
Paul
 
I had an absolute bitch of a time getting the stator out of the bell housing!!!

Worst of all I didn't need to take it out to replace the damn halls! Doh! :D

It was an experience, worst of all was getting it back in, Then I realised the way to do it is without the bloody axle in place!

Really if I were to do it again it would be easy enough!

Just make sure to install the stator before the axle!

BY the way Paul I heard another loud noise which sounded like gears grinding ?

or maybe it was the keyway trying to pop out again ?


Edit"..............

Went for a long spin, gears fine!

Mght be the keyway misbehaving!
What should I do ?
 
for high temp epoxy, david can get some JB Weld at the walmart in colorado springs. $5. good to 600 degrees. should be part of everyman's kit.

this is not sinking money, just repair after you pushed it over the limit with the jumps. overall, a good deal, imo.
 
jb weld will work eh? awesome.

I've got the part where the bolt threads back into the axle bent back into position after keeping it on a tight clamp for a few days. If i can get that bearing remnant cut off, i can revive this stator i think. I will order another spare stator/axle assy. anyways ( as we all know, it never hurts to have a spare... everything )
 
unless you can take that axle shaft out and turn the bearing surfaces on a lathe, it will never be true and the bearing will bind from the instant you put the cover back on. even if these cheap chinese made motors seem less than exact in the manufacturing tolerances, it requires the bearing be orthagonal to the axle, within tens of thousandsth of an inch, so the shaft would need to be turned down to fit a new undersized bearing, now you are talking of sinking real money. machine shop money.
 
OK, so i'm thinking... maybe i screwed up my DD too, but i'm not sure.
I hear a clank/clunk at 30mph, which goes away once i hit 31mph... no interruption of power.. just a loud sound from the DD hub. I'm putting that motor aside thinking that maybe i unglued a magnet inside :shock: :cry: :cry:
Waiting for a 3.5mm hex key from hobbyking to open that up.. 3mm won't fit .. 4mm won't.. can't find a metric size either... aRrrgHh..

So I busted out the dremel and went bezerk on the bearing remnant that was stuck on the MAC's axle as i had nothing to lose now.

macaxle2.jpg


A HA..... so it was a bit of rust that bound the axle to the bearing. I blame all the riding i did in the pacific northwest for this. Luckily, the rust did not extend past the axle whatsoever. The internals all look brand new.

macaxle3.jpg


All free and clear now.. keyway is amazingly still in good condition.. very surprising considering the 4kW abuse i put it through.



OK, now the big question.. i've got the upgraded gray gears in.. i've got all the broken gear crap cleaned out too.. but what grease do i fill this bad boy up with ... ?
 
Well, after you clean out all the metallic debris there ;), you could use the grease they use in differentials or spindle bearings. I have a can of that red stuff that seems to work well in everything I've used it in, including a powerchair's rightangle gearbox that I ran on CrazyBike2, with the "650W" motor at what was probably more like twice that or more for startups, and at least half that constant, probably more (been a long time now so I don't remember for sure). Got the gearbox and motor fairly warm, sometimes pretty hot, but last I had checked when taking it all off the bike for the hubmotor, it was still good.
 
neptronix said:
Waiting for a 3.5mm hex key from hobbyking to open that up.. 3mm won't fit .. 4mm won't.. can't find a metric size either... aRrrgHh..
Click to expand...

An SAE 9/64 should be damn close. (9/64" = .1407" 3.5mm= .1378") If you don't have that...you could also try some small torx...sometimes those will fit into the odd sizes just well enough.

After reading this entire thread, you've got me thinking about a MAC as well. Do Cell_Man's shipping rates to the US justify a group a buy?
 
GMU, i tried some SAE stuff and it was a fraction of a millimeter too big. It would fit into some of the bolts on the cover of the DD, but not into others. Pain in the ass....

As for the MAC motor, shipping rates aren't too bad if you do sea shipping. I think it was about ~$60 to ship a hub motor in wheel + controller via sea freight to Portland, OR.

You could probably save yourself $10-$20 if you shipped a few dozen of them out.

BTW i think cell_man is on haitus for a week or two right now. Do be patient if you send him an email.
 
That sucks. You probably can find one local though...I got on in a set a got from Home Depot a few years ago. Maybe check Craftsman/Sears? Also, Park Tool includes one in their T-handle set....you might find that at a bike shop.

As far as the shipping, yeah it's hardly worth the hassle to save $10-20.

Since you've spent time with the MAC and some others, if you can't get your existing MAC back together..would you buy another one?

I'm looking at getting a new motor for my commuter...which has an eZee 20" in a 26" wheel. It get's me 25 mph at 25 wH/mile. I'd lke something with a higher top speed, but was willing to give up some efficiency and just upsize the battery a bit. I was looking at the HS3540, but after reading your thread...I think you've convinced me that the MAC has everything I want....good efficiency and speed.

My commute is 18 miles, and I've got one 2.5 mile section in the route we call 'the death road'...55 mph 4 lane highway with no shoulder. I usually just take an enitre lane and deal with the nasty looks...but it'd be nice to be able to move a bit more with traffic...yet still have the ability to dial it down in the other sections and maintain a good cool efficiency.
 
I gave up after going to harbor freight and finding nothing in 3.5mm. I ordered a tool from hobbyking for all of $1.50. Didn't know about the park tool stuff. Oh well, would have cost me a lot more $ anyway.

My MAC motor is back together 100%, i just need grease at this point. Thinking about ordering another actually because i want to run dual motors. I have the same problem as you; no bike lanes in many areas, and i'm willing to be an outlaw as i have no other option than to drive.

a MAC motor will do what you're looking for. It won't sweat doing 30mph. For short jaunts that aren't too hilly, i find it can survive doing 35-38mph for 10-20+ miles without getting too hot.

Now if you want stupid power, run two 6t 500w motors simultaneously on 48 volts or higher. It will guzzle amps but you should be able to maintain 40-50mph without blowing anything up. That will prevent you from becoming a pancake on that road. You could use a speed switch to kick the power down to 20-30mph after that section for better efficiency. Just an idea.
 
I was looking at a single 6T on the rear, at 12S Lipo. I might up the voltage a bit...but all my LiPo is in 6S blocks, and that'd put me at 18S which is likely way too much.

That's a cool idea though running duals...maybe only kicking in the front drive for that extra boost on the straight sections.

I've been to the Springs a few times...and just never noticed the lack of bike lanes. You're living in a kick ass area though. You've got tons of off-road options. If you get a chance in the summer, head up to Keystone and ride some downhill for a day. That's some awesome two-wheeled fun. I work a good bit in western colorado...I'd love to move out there.

Not having bike lanes does suck it pretty hard. I cross Mobile bay on my way to work, and I've got a bike lane, but it promptly ends once I'm accross. Then it's the death road. It's actually not that bad. It's a road heading to a high rise bridge crossing the Mobile river. It's gated by red lights on both sides, so you get these plugs of traffic at 3 minute intervals. I take the lane and always ride with a mirror and a rear light. I'll watch for the cars getting over to the other lane...then I know they've seen me. If one asshole doesn't get over and is bee lining for me....I exit into the foot high grass and brush that drops off into the water. I've got about three feet in that area...but you're running blind through that shit...and it's full of all kinds of bullshit..trash..limbs...sometimes even alligators! I lean way back and ride that it downhill style just in case I hit something. I'm rolling with 5.5" of travel on both wheels...so it's not that bad. But, this is one of the reasons I've kept a big fat knobby front tire.

Anyway, I have to bail like that about once a week because some asshole is going to try to pass me in the lane. I think more speed would give them more time to move over...and also get me through that area faster.
 
If you have hills to deal with, forget the 6T.
Great motor for the flats... not so fantastic on hills. Isn't Alabama fairly flat tho?

18S is way too much for that particular motor. 12S will hit somewhere between 35-40mph.

Yes, the higher speed will be safer for you. Drivers will have more time to react and will then start considering you a motorcycle or moped.

If you noticed any bike lanes, i'd like to know where you were. Probably next to the college :p
I had to take the shoulder of the highway on my pedal bike to get back home from harbor freight a few days ago. My only other option was a 45mph fast moving road with no shoulder. NOT COOL...
I came from the west coast where there are bike lanes everywhere, so maybe i'm spoiled. But i don't think bike lanes are a luxury.. they are necessary.
 
Hi David,

Glad you got it sorted, I was out for a mac fix today. :D used nearly 5wh/mi less because it was a beautifully sunny calm day. So I should get around 12 miles 35-40 mph and that's out of my 10ah pach that really gives me 8.5ah, (I must test that cell on the Icharger, never thought about that, cheers! :mrgreen: )

It would be interesting to know if I get that same wh/mi with fatter tyres with lower pressure for comfort. I'm running 90psi is 1.6 tyres, it rolls forever but it's too unstable.

At that speed I think the rider should be as low as possible, maybe 24" tyres would be better too.

I wonder what a magic pie sized mac would be like ?
 
neptronix said:
If you have hills to deal with, forget the 6T.
Great motor for the flats... not so fantastic on hills. Isn't Alabama fairly flat tho?

18S is way too much for that particular motor. 12S will hit somewhere between 35-40mph.

Yes, the higher speed will be safer for you. Drivers will have more time to react and will then start considering you a motorcycle or moped.
Click to expand...

Yeah, very flat. My whole commute is basically at sea level. I've got one 150 ft climb over the bridge...but there's a bike lane so going slow isn't a big deal there.

I'm thinking the 6T on 12S. I've got some 12fet Lyen controllers sitting in the cabinet...do you know if anyone has used a Lyen 12fet on the MACs? I didn't see much from a search...just observations on odd behavior when using anything other than cell_mans controllers.
 
scorpion: At those speeds, you are losing wicked amounts of energy to aerodynamics, so a change of tires isn't going to do much to your efficiency. I run 1.8' tires at 40psi.. works for me.

GMU: the 6 turn motor should work fine for you then. I would strongly recommend getting one of cell_man's new 12FET controllers because the stock lyen controllers & other stock infineons tend to have serious issues with the MAC/BMC motors.. stuttering.. jolting.. all sorts of fun stuff that just ruins gears and clutches :|

The recent generation of cell_man controllers seem to be quite smooth.
 
Yeah dude, get Cellmans EB312, that's what I'm running on my 6 turn mac. Lyen's 6fet controller did not match well with it. I don't know how his bigger ones would though.

What amps do you plan to run? I'd recomend at least 30 so you have some acceleration. I'm running 36v 21amps normally and it does okay with pedaling, but won't keep me at 30mph on a slight rise (or at 30 without perfect conditions for that matter). 12s will be good. I've used 13s 21amps, and it's much better, plows up the hills nicely. I've still yet to do a top speed run with it, other than a half-effort at 35mph on a bikeway.... :lol: I love how the Mac is strong on hills, even though it's meant to go 32mph on 36v. I'd reckon it's still near 80% efficient at 20mph based on how it climbs at that speed.
 
Regarding the hex key, why not just file the SAE one down a tad? Even just rubbing it on concrete would be enough to do it, if it is as close a fit as it sounds like.

Remember also that a Torx bit will work on hex (allen) key heads, too. I don't recall which size = 3.5mm.
 
*facepalm* :( .... :lol:

That didn't even occur to me, dude. I actually have a few spare 9/16 ( or whatever it is ) SAE hex keys and the idea did not occur to me. I will hit one of the tools with a dremel tomorrow.. Thank you :oops:

You know what they say about these forums.... 12,791 heads are better than one
 
Ah yes, that's must be what it was. I had a SAE one that sorta kinda fit.

Man we need to get rid of American units.. those fractions = fail...
 
Don't dremel it--with small stuff like this, power tools are just a really fast way to make irreversible mistakes. :lol:

Trust me on this, though don't ask me to tell you why (the list of my own examples is way too long :oops:).
 
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