My first e-bike project log named: "P.O.S."

[etard]

Great to see you're back on track man! I also have some el cheapo motors I can send you for shipping cost. Now, can you reuse that magnet wire by unwinding? Oh yeah, you epoxied it.

I like how almost every pic has a racing motor or car in the background.

 

[def215]

Now, can you reuse that magnet wire by unwinding? Oh yeah, you epoxied it.

I like how almost every pic has a racing motor or car in the background.

i was hoping i can do that. i only epoxied the side where it faces the magnets and not the whole entire thing, hopefully i can still pull it apart. ill see about that tomorrow. in the meantime i do have my currie 250watt motor that just came in the mail, so ill try to put that on there in the meantime

the one time i decide to do something the right way is when i screw up entirely

haha. yeah, the cars and the motors somehow make their way into the pics. i work at a high performance car shop and thats where i keep my bike most of the time so i cant get away from them at all. but soon enough, i wont be able to be around any of it since ill be in school fulltime in the upcoming weeks

 

[mwkeefer]

Def,

Enough BS with rewinding that puppy!

I've got 1/2 dozen BLDC RC motors here 3-5kw ready to go, an assortment of DC motors like your currie already which I WILL NEVER USE in 250-450w versions...

Pick a direction and I'll meet ya at your shop and drop off what you need

Seriously though - youd be doing me a favor, I have too much shit here to work on and not enough days left in my life!

If you want the DC motors - they are yours, the RC motors - pick 2... I can throw ya some infineons too but it's on you to add hall sensors (check gwhy's thread).. In fact compared to what your running now on that 8S pack - I've got a Tower Pro 5330 9T (135kv Delta) which I had good bearings put in and magnets enhanced... they are supposed to be good for 200C but I wouldn't pass 40 over ambient or max about 140F. That little motor would be a forever runner if your pushing < 2kw through it

PM me - we can chat about whatever you may need for that BMXer to get it running and reliable without any more REWINDs.

-Mike

 

[def215]

thanks for the offers etard and mike, but i want this one to be 100% my time and money, since it will be my commuter and nothing more. but i will take donations for my next build. which will be a high-powered, RC friction-drive setup. ...jkjk.(but i think that one might be built soon)

so as i stated, i did get a 250 watt currie motor. it seems the same as the unite that i have but one thing, its too wide! so i got the hacking and removed this:

i had to trim the motors width down, and also push the commutator up so it will fit inside the trimmed-down can and create more shaft to have it go in correctly, so some more hacking and some cussin, i got it to work. heres how it looks:

i had to remove that part of the canister from that side to get everything to fit in my frame again. i also like the stickers on it that say "Currie Tech" and "Electro Drive." the stickers seem like it gives it that novelty, picking it apart from all the normal bikes. :wink:

i guess my 7T homemade sprocket still works on the new motor i have.

after my first ride on this new motor, im impressed. it performs better than my rewound unite. okay, well under around 15 mph it feels a bit sluggish, but right after 15 mph, it starts to move, up to its top speed on 7s which is around 22 mph. also i let that friend who fried my first motor take it around and it didnt have any problems...so far. *knock on wood* so im fairly satisfied with my bike so far. i just hope that it doesnt break in the near future anytime soon. so tomorrow i can do the finishing touches on it, like advance my timing, play with my motor mounts a bit to get the chain alignment correct, and some odds and ends here and there. also i need to charge my batteries up and take it for a 8s run on 32.28 volts and hook up my watt meter. but for some reason, i feel like i need more konions

im feeling that EV grin all over again

 

[mwkeefer]

def,

I may show up and insist eventually - but these were offers that I don't think take it out of the "you paid for it" range, I've picked up a few things from you (what not to do in philly snow) and I'm sure others have too... your putting junk (not like AmberWolf but low end bits) to good use and it's very inspiring to the other shade trees amongst us... so imho, tossing you parts I would / will not be using benefits everyone and comeon man... it's not like I'm in Cali, were nearly neighbors

Seeing you got another 250w currie running with your 7T drive, and seeing your rather "lack of impressedness" {sorry had to south philly} until 15mph but then reasonable performance until 22mph... I'm a tad worried, I know you indicate that even the guy who fried your setup did no damage on this build up but...

If my understanding is right (who knows) - your maximum power should be at 1/2 of no load speed, I would wager we can really tune the performance of the setup if you can get a reading of no load RPM... I know you don't have an RPM meter right, but you work in a shop so use a timing light to clock it? In either case, if you can get no load of the motor... I may be able to suggest a different gearing to get you better performance and locate the "power" band where you want it (wherever that may be).

Another thing that I find concerning, unless you have it geared so poorly that the motor is struggling under load until 15mph is reached (I don't know your reduction ratio so I can't guess at motor RPM under load) so I'm wondering if maybe your controller isn't doing some form of "soft start" type thing?

What is the output shaft size on your motors, 8mm, 3/8"? I have spares of many BLDC motors with good bits which I won't be using but would give you 18-20% more efficiency over a brushed DC motor and also much more power if you wanted it (or a huge buffer zone in output power)... gwhy has PCBs for adding the halls now so it's fairly Piece of Cake to get an infineon working on a Tower Pro or Turnigy and running with any voltage pack you require to match your power and speed needs.

In either case - the offers stand, I even have some LiPo you could have (sorry I need some A123 cells myself right now, 3 to be specific) which isn't puffed but has seen about 400 cycles at 2-5C discharge and still holds 4.8 AH per 5AH block with 4.16v cutout HVC and 3.2v LVC (so same as the first week after break in) - this pack has been charged as 6S in parallel at 1/2 C maximum rate immediately after using...

Well... as always - your welcome to pick the parts bins here, really you would kinda be doing me a favor!

Oh yea - if you were interested I have a spare 3spd freehub SRF3 internal hub laced into a nice 20" rim which would work with one of Gary Goodrums adapters (or your own) to add a nice large rear drive sprocket - keep the straight chainline and freewheeling of both motor and pedals but isolated at the rear while adding 3 speeds (1.33x, 1x anx .75x) for both pedal through and motor through - really extending your speed range while optimizing efficiency. I'd be happy to give it freely but if you insisted you could pay me what I paid (49.95 for the whole shebang with small parts, 16t cog and shifter).

Just thinking if you wanted to do a nice BMXish, low weight RC style build - the 3spd internal rear should be good for up to 5kw on a 20" rim... personally I'm approaching 2600w input power and approx 2300w output maximum on my latest test setup with a 60.00 turnigy motor running 6S LiPo.

Glad to see the iron steed is back in service again!

Regards,
Mike

PS: What's your day like tommorow - if the rain holds, I'll be riding to the city for the day just to hang out and catch up with some friends in South and around Rittenhouse... maybe we can catch up for a coffee or a race? We could find some bike cops to fuk wid hehe

 

[dequinox]

Wow thats a heck of a nice offer def, I'd be all over that one! I'm still working on ~510 W*Hr of donated NiCads in order to get my bike a better range and performance. The generosity here is completely amazing to me every time I see an offer like this. ES ROCKS!!

 

[etard]

Hey Mike,
I'm just a poor lowly bum in need of some Lipo. :lol: :lol:

That's a great offer Def, no pride lost in accepting free upgrades!! 3 speeds would get you all the power and top speed that motor is ever going to put out, you can shave minutes off your commute. AND, it's already laced, WTF??!!

You two hooligans have fun, we'll be sure to post bail if necessary.

 

[def215]

def,

I may show up and insist eventually - but these were offers that I don't think take it out of the "you paid for it" range, I've picked up a few things from you (what not to do in philly snow) and I'm sure others have too... your putting junk (not like AmberWolf but low end bits) to good use and it's very inspiring to the other shade trees amongst us... so imho, tossing you parts I would / will not be using benefits everyone and comeon man... it's not like I'm in Cali, were nearly neighbors

Seeing you got another 250w currie running with your 7T drive, and seeing your rather "lack of impressedness" {sorry had to south philly} until 15mph but then reasonable performance until 22mph... I'm a tad worried, I know you indicate that even the guy who fried your setup did no damage on this build up but...

If my understanding is right (who knows) - your maximum power should be at 1/2 of no load speed, I would wager we can really tune the performance of the setup if you can get a reading of no load RPM... I know you don't have an RPM meter right, but you work in a shop so use a timing light to clock it? In either case, if you can get no load of the motor... I may be able to suggest a different gearing to get you better performance and locate the "power" band where you want it (wherever that may be).

Another thing that I find concerning, unless you have it geared so poorly that the motor is struggling under load until 15mph is reached (I don't know your reduction ratio so I can't guess at motor RPM under load) so I'm wondering if maybe your controller isn't doing some form of "soft start" type thing?

What is the output shaft size on your motors, 8mm, 3/8"? I have spares of many BLDC motors with good bits which I won't be using but would give you 18-20% more efficiency over a brushed DC motor and also much more power if you wanted it (or a huge buffer zone in output power)... gwhy has PCBs for adding the halls now so it's fairly Piece of Cake to get an infineon working on a Tower Pro or Turnigy and running with any voltage pack you require to match your power and speed needs.

In either case - the offers stand, I even have some LiPo you could have (sorry I need some A123 cells myself right now, 3 to be specific) which isn't puffed but has seen about 400 cycles at 2-5C discharge and still holds 4.8 AH per 5AH block with 4.16v cutout HVC and 3.2v LVC (so same as the first week after break in) - this pack has been charged as 6S in parallel at 1/2 C maximum rate immediately after using...

Well... as always - your welcome to pick the parts bins here, really you would kinda be doing me a favor!

Oh yea - if you were interested I have a spare 3spd freehub SRF3 internal hub laced into a nice 20" rim which would work with one of Gary Goodrums adapters (or your own) to add a nice large rear drive sprocket - keep the straight chainline and freewheeling of both motor and pedals but isolated at the rear while adding 3 speeds (1.33x, 1x anx .75x) for both pedal through and motor through - really extending your speed range while optimizing efficiency. I'd be happy to give it freely but if you insisted you could pay me what I paid (49.95 for the whole shebang with small parts, 16t cog and shifter).

Just thinking if you wanted to do a nice BMXish, low weight RC style build - the 3spd internal rear should be good for up to 5kw on a 20" rim... personally I'm approaching 2600w input power and approx 2300w output maximum on my latest test setup with a 60.00 turnigy motor running 6S LiPo.

Glad to see the iron steed is back in service again!

Regards,
Mike

PS: What's your day like tommorow - if the rain holds, I'll be riding to the city for the day just to hang out and catch up with some friends in South and around Rittenhouse... maybe we can catch up for a coffee or a race? We could find some bike cops to fuk wid hehe

i dont think in anyway my work can compare to amberwolf's. he's just the master of repurposing, im just mediocre at best compared to him. :wink:

right now im more than happy with my brushed setup at the moment. i plan to build a brushless rc-powered bike, but not anytime soon. maybe if i have a motor to stare at, that might motivate me.

since it isnt broken or anything, i thought i run it until it completely dies.

Hey Mike,
I'm just a poor lowly bum in need of some Lipo. :lol: :lol:

That's a great offer Def, no pride lost in accepting free upgrades!! 3 speeds would get you all the power and top speed that motor is ever going to put out, you can shave minutes off your commute. AND, it's already laced, WTF??!!

You two hooligans have fun, we'll be sure to post bail if necessary.

i dont know. i just feel like something doesnt actually belongs to me if i get it for free, unless i pay something for it. :?

so i got a chance to put a smaller front sprocket on it, which is a 6t. my rear is still the 52t so i believe its a 8.66:1 gear ratio. it feels peppier now and it has good power throughout its range of speed. but its top speed is around 20mph on 7s. i guess thats good enough so i can commute with.

on another note, i been playing with the idea of another motorized bike and ended up with a gasoline motor on a bike. i put this one together by request from a friend(with my bike in the background, so i guess its ebike related):

i have a feeling i just should of went e-drive for this one. just thought id share that.

 

[dequinox]

Ha ha ha easy enough to do def, just replace that thar motor w/ a recumpence R/C drive!

 

[dequinox]

Hey def, do you know a place where I could get one of those gas bike sprockets with the clamps for it? I have a source or two but I'm not sure if they sell the clamp parts with the sprocket.

 

[Thud]

D,
here is a place to get that gas bike stuffs.
the rag joint clamp:
http://bikeberrymotors.com/product_info/sprocket-clamp-assembly.html

& sprockets from 36-48t:
http://bikeberrymotors.com/product_info/38-tooth-sprocket.html

 

[def215]

good link thud. i didnt bother to look for it on a website like that.

the one that i have is a 56-tooth #40 sprocket. i wouldve opted for something like a 60 tooth but i couldnt find it at the time. i actually found mines on ebay for about 25 shipped including the hardware. heres the link to it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/motor-motorized...499?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d29fc4293
if you go to the sellers store, they have all different sizes from 32 tooth to the 56 tooth that i have. the sprocket and hardware seem to work well enough on that bike, but im not sure how it will handle ridiculous amounts of power like some guys on here put out.
im sad to say that that bike is now dismantled due to the fact that im unimpressed with it. but i am looking for a smaller donor frame to put the gas engine on. i have different plans for the roadbike at the moment :wink:

just to update on the ebike:
i havent really ridden it in a while since i took it up to school and had it break down on me twice. but i think i fixed the problems with it. but right now, i think i reached all possible mods that i can really do, except for higher voltages. i think its time for another project. maybe ill try another budget build...

 

[ev_nred]

one question:what was the top speed with the old 250 watt motor?

 

[def215]

one question:what was the top speed with the old 250 watt motor?

sorry i didnt respond right away to your question, ive been buried in the books for the past few weeks.

to answer your question: with the stock unite motor, on 7:52 gearing, it went around ~17 mph. that was on sla's. i rewound the motor and was able to bump the speed up to around 19 mph. then i switched up to konion's (7s6p) which bumped my speed up to around 22 mph. if i run 8s, i can get up to around 25 mph if i do the full tuck. then i loaned it out to a friend and threw a wire off of the stator tooth, which fried it. now im running a 250 watt currie motor that i had to modify to fit on my bike. i have it running 6:52 gearing right now and it performs just like the unite motor. right now, im having trouble with my chain tensioners. im trying to sort that out right now so it can run at least

 

[def215]

so it always seems as if there are successes and failures to a project.

so i decided to take the bike to school on friday, you know, since it is still nice out somewhat and i had guys at school ask me about it. so the weather is nice, my bike is working like it never had in the past few months. i havent had it working like this in a while, because everytime i take it out something happens to it...lol. when i was up at school showing it to my EE friends and one of the professors in the department, they seemed to be fairly impressed. and when i showed them my konion pack, i wasnt sure if they were really impressed, or if they thought it was a bomb and was ready to call campus security...lol. but the highlight of it was letting one of them ride my bike and have them come back with the EV grin. nothing makes me happier than sharing that with others.

well when i was leaving school, something happens to it, my throttle cuts out and it leaves me pedaling the rest of the way. the wires broke at the pins of the connector and im not sure if they shorted somewhere or what it just sucks right now. but, the beauty about an ebike is that its still a bike. if the e-drive fails, you still got pedal power. but its not so fun on my bmx i can tell ya that much...lol. well i got home and pretty much this whole weekend ive been staring at it trying to figure out what happened to it. so i disassemble the controller and removed that goddamned potting material, which i didnt see anything wrong at the time. but then upon closer inspection today, i saw that there was a burnt trace on the board. so i jumped the trace together and put everything back together to see if it would work, and it does, sorta. well heres the thing, the throttle lights up and looks like it works, but when i press my rigged up full throttle button, it runs, but it doesnt sound like full throttle, because it makes that humming or sort of like a cogging sound when the rear wheel is stalled at a dead stop . and the top speed unloaded is only about 17mph. so im suspecting that the controller or my throttle is done and is not in full working order. well at the moment its rigged to work, but i dont like it at all. so im not gonna mess with it at all until it get it in full working order.

also, i did reconfigure my pack to sit somewhat flatter in my backpack, and i did somehow short out the pack, but only for like a split second. could that have damaged my cells? they are konion cells and were all charged at 4 volts. when i checked it, they were all still at the same voltage though. could they be damaged from the short out?

 

[amberwolf]

but, the beauty about an ebike is that its still a bike. if the e-drive fails, you still got pedal power.
but its not so fun on my bmx i can tell ya that much...lol.

That's the problem with CrazyBike2 with teh old SLA setup; it was so heavy that I essentially *couldn't* pedal it without the assist. But even with DGA I can pedal it but I really don't like to have to--it's too heavy, too.

I don't know if the batteries could be damaged, but you can test that by measuring their cell voltages under load, even if you have to do it one at a time with a meter.

Depending on how your controller is setup, it might have a damaged component like a burned resistor or simliar that is keeping it from reading the full throttle voltage. If it does not work right even with your full-throttle button, that sounds likely.

Might be easy to fix, by tracing down the path of the burned trace.

 

[def215]

That's the problem with CrazyBike2 with teh old SLA setup; it was so heavy that I essentially *couldn't* pedal it without the assist. But even with DGA I can pedal it but I really don't like to have to--it's too heavy, too.

I don't know if the batteries could be damaged, but you can test that by measuring their cell voltages under load, even if you have to do it one at a time with a meter.

Depending on how your controller is setup, it might have a damaged component like a burned resistor or simliar that is keeping it from reading the full throttle voltage. If it does not work right even with your full-throttle button, that sounds likely.

Might be easy to fix, by tracing down the path of the burned trace.

i think the batteries might be okay. it still shows a charge, and i tried taking it around the block, with the botched up controller, and it goes but its not all there. because of what happened.

im still using the cheap china controller which uses the retarded potting material on it. well i did do a search on here for a few things like beefing up a speed controller and how to get the potting material off, and if i recall, in one of your posts, you said brake fluid worked? i kinda wanna try this but i dont want it to ruin anything else, well its broken already, so why not. :lol: im sure my wiring is correct on my throttle because i followed exactly what razor has on their website, which is the controller im using. i wanna fix it, but the potting on it is holding me back. maybe i should look into getting a 4qd like you have, or something similar. but i think most likely that im gonna fix this controller and beef it up in the time being.

yeah, i become an electrical engineering student, and the thing that i screw up is electronics...lol. i guess im gonna have to learn this stuff either way.

 

[dequinox]

Sounds like you're trying to polish a turd there def :lol: If you go with a tougher controller you can avoid that whole scenario of trying to break down potting material... I now use the YK43B controller from Yiyun, and it is a STOUT dark beer in a land of pale ales. You can find the specs here: http://www.tncscooters.com/YK43B.php

The 1000W rating is most definitely a continuous use rating, as I've seen peaks of over 3500 watts come out of this thing at 36v (to be fair thats out of the batteries)! I don't recommend running it at 24v, even though it says it will do that. Any voltage sag and you hit its low voltage cutoff...about 20v or so.

 

[def215]

good point dequinox. a polished turd is just a turd after all...lol. that might be my next purchase for this thing to get it at least working again, when i have some cash. i think ill end up rebuilding this controller anyway for learning experiences. it never hurts to try. the controller is sort of not working at the moment. whats the worse that can happen? to not work at all...lol. ive started to look at the 4QD motor controllers and they sort of gave me ideas. i dont know, i shouldnt have two projects going on at once and schoolwork too. it seems like everything is jumbling together. now everything is a big blurr...lol.

 

[dequinox]

Well if you are in it for the learning experience that makes it a different story. I guess you have to weigh whether you want a reliable commuter or a project that is mostly apart that you're learning on. I tried attacking both at once when I built mine, and it was a pain. It's a bit better if you can choose which

 

[amberwolf]

With my projects, they started out to be a simple quest for a reliable commuter and cargo hauler with assist. IN the process I found the educational part was as much fun as riding what I already had, although often quite frustrating when things dind't work and I couldn't figure out why. (or figured it out but couldnt do anythinga bout it).

The biggest thing I have found is that I really need to separate my cargo and commuter into at least two different bikes, which unfortunately limits me to just commuting and not stopping for groceries and stuff on the way home if I do it that way, forcing special trips for shopping, using the cargo bike or a trailer for the regular one. Then at least when things break on the commute, I don't half-die trying to just pedal my way to/from work. :lol:


Regarding the brake fluid vs potting, it depends on the kind of potting. If it si a hard epoxy, it may work. if it is a soft silicone it will not likley.

 

[def215]

thanks for the info amberwolf. i tried the brake fluid on the potting material of the controller and all i have to say is the potting material is really tough. i guess its really not meant to come off. is there anything else or am i SOL on this one? if i am. im not sure what ill do with that. well, the weather is starting to change, and for the worse, so ill just retire it for the winter and bring it out if there is a good day...lol. so i got plenty of time to work on it now.

 

[def215]

so its been down for quite a while now , so i havent really messed with it for a while. just playing with the propane goped i have. last time i really remember riding it was when i met up with another fellow ES member, mwkeefer, which was like more than a month ago. well the weather is too cold to do any of that anymore in this season, so i guess i gotta wait till next spring, unless i ride in the snow

still waiting for my twist throttle to get here from china, which should be next week. that would make it a whole month . upon the upgrades, i did get new rear brakes:

i think i ordered the wrong ones, these might be for a road bike. they fit, so why not...lol

they look way better than my stock ones. these should be able to stop me better than before :wink:

the old ones sucked ass. if i was on the brakes too hard, they would deform and flex.

still waiting on my throttle and grips. its feeling a little bare on the handlebars.
i also put on a new crank(not better, but a replacement i had laying around), and got pedals that werent broken. i still want a decent aluminum set. and i put my kickstand back on it so i dont have to use a wall, or chair, or bench, or table, or pole, or curb, or myself as a kickstand anymore...lol

also i ordered one of those spycams off of ebay for like 7 bucks to take with me to get ride footage or something of the like, like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Car-Key-Chain-Hidden-Camera-Spy-Camera-video-Recorder_W0QQitemZ120651100181QQcategoryZ48634QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5277101220713915488
ive seen that they work pretty well in that thread here, so i thought i give it a shot. if it doesnt work so good or i break it, i cant be mad that i blew 7 bucks on it.
so until i get it working again...

 

[def215]

long time no update. but, so far its still working. i havent used it recently at all since the weather is still kinda crap. also, ive been riding my standup scooter lately because the bike is up at my school. its there because it will be going with me to erie, pa to an IEEE event, where ill be presenting it in a project competition in which ill be representing my school, along with the rest of the engineering department at my school.

but today, my bike got some good use because im working on a project at my school for earth day. the project is to use a bike to generate power. we were testing it with a normal mountain bike that was bought from walmart. but pedaling the generator really gets you winded, so in comes my bike to save the day:

it worked fantastic! so i used electricity to make electricity. :lol:

my goodness im lazy, or clever.

 

[REdiculous]

Now all you need to do is recharge your battery with the generator! :lol:

...use electricity to make electricity to make electricity...