New crystalyte motor - G series

i dont see the problem to buy and bent a straight spoke to the right angle by yourself...

at the end you are a DIY-guy...if you can open hub motors, repair the halls and make thicker phase-wires...your should be able to bent a spoke to the right angle
 
Did anyone ride the G-rearwheel motor yet? We are trying to test the first one, but find it difficult to mount the cassette. It look like some small parts are missing or we recieved the wrong combination of freehub, spacers, nuts and cassette-lockring. Both adjusting the freehub bearings and fixating the lockring seems impossible.
 
This motor had not hit the market yet, so it is not documented here. Please post some pics of what you've got, and someone might be able to help you with the free hub assembly, or tell you what is missing.
 
I will repeat what I said about the "sparrow" motor....

Apparantly Crystallite has offered to supply the first 100 buyers of this motor with a big tube of lube, a vial of muscle relaxant, and the Village Peoples greatest hits....

Not that there is anything wrong with it, "some of my best friends ride the G series"

Hahahaha That quote needs to go into the ES Quotable Quotes thread.
 
As you can see

B2V%202%20complete%20(2).jpg


there is not enough space between the lockring and the nut for the Shimano tool. Also/because the top nut is too big.

B2V%201%20tool%20(3).jpg


After some thinking, trying and testing with some spacers under and on top of the freehub in order to 1. lift the freehub from the motor and 2. lift the two nuts that block the freehub - so I can put the tools (17 and 19) on them. It looked quite OK, but did not give the expected result so I went back to the original configuration and did not lock the cassette's top nut.
 
That definitely looks stealth
 
I got one of these hubs bare to complete a sh*ts-n-giggles spare parts build. the axle is threaded with two different, but equally infuriating and inappropriate pitches, so DONT LOSE THE OEM NUTS
left side: 9/16-20 RH (only used for bicycle pedal axles & cranks!)
right/drive-side: 7/16-28 (only used to mount electric knobs to control panels!)
You cannot find suitable steel replacement hardware for those <b>ANYWHERE</b>. I'm hand-tapping a left-side nut (lost before shipping) as soon as my hex-shaped steel barstock comes in, using a Park Tool crank tap I borrowed and a 33/64 reamer to pilot the hole.

As for the (non)clearance of the cassette tool, there must have been some willful suspension of disbelief at the factory or a switcheroo of specs when it came time to turn the custom nuts to match the botched up axles...whatever the case it means these hubs can't even be assembled into wheels as-is!

I had to make 2 tweaks:
I drilled out the hole of my Park cassette tool to 7/16". It's a solid axle, so you need a tool that has a hole in the middle instead of a guide rod that only works with quick release axles.
I took off the locknut with a box wrench, and ground off the flats until it was round and matching the "washer" profile on the faces of the nut. Then I put two flats on it with a file on opposing sides, so that it looks like the "cone" nut that sits in the freehub carrier.

with those changes, you can slip a the lockring tool over the axle and tighten it down to spec (snug, but not hard)

I hope the build is worth it, what a b*&%h!
 
development of the 4xx and 5xx series with assist from power assist forum and esforum members over many years,
many sellers used as guinea pigs by crystalyte, then they stop making them and go in another direction.......
also overpriced compared to other chinese retailers.......many years also spent getting to grips with issues of the 4 and 5 series.....why even go with crystalyte?
 
I'm now curious about these for a mid-drive. They appear to be similar in size to the old Crystalyte 408, though slightly narrower. The "Stoke-Monkey" has had some success using what I'm told is a 407. Maybe not a bad idea if I think about it as though its an outrunner that is roughly a 177mm diameter by 59mm thick. The Crystalyte website says there are two windings. At 36V you can get 277 RPMs unloaded, and 355 RPMs unloaded. Those numbers match their claim of 30 k/h and 40 k/h in a 26-inch wheel when loaded (18-MPH / 24-MPH). Sounds like the motor unloaded kV's are 7.7 and 9.8 (if I did the math right)

The splined freehub rear wheel might accept two side-by-side splined ENOs, for a right-side series-drive, similar to the Hanebrink.

The front hub is very narrow, and the left-side disc brake flange could accept a fixed cog that might drive a jackshaft with a freewheel to drive the rear wheel disc brake flange (cog and FW both on left side)? Or, a right-side freewheel on the jackshaft to drive the BB? I also believe a Nexus trike 3-speed IGH can be "back-driven" by flipping it over and using it as a jackshaft (the motor spins the shell-sprocket, and the left-side freewheel connects the chain to the rear wheel disc brake flange).

Add air-cooling (or oil-cooling) plus the motor using at least 3 speeds, and its small size might not be such a horrible thing. Urbancommuterstore is charging over $1000 for a great mid-drive product, but my DIY longtail has lots of room for a small hub and a jackshaft (for a LOT less). The G-series benefit being it would be quieter than a cell_man geared hub (the other mid-drive option?)
 
spinningmagnets said:
my DIY longtail has lots of room for a small hub and a jackshaft (for a LOT less). The G-series benefit being it would be quieter than a cell_man geared hub (the other mid-drive option?)
I'm also trying to choose between a G-series and a MAC for a mid-drive, any opinions guys ?
 
Just to add a bit more tech details to this thread. We got both a sample front and rear 'G' motor at the beginning of this year and shared most of the sentiments that others have expressed here. It's neat and has some original design elements, which is a little unusual out of china. It's good to see some smaller size drive hub motor options, cassette freehub got the rear is awesome, but overall the impracticality requiring a custom bent spoke and the generally low power and high price tipped the scales against us stocking it.

The front model weights 3.8kg, so light but not a featherweight like the similar power geared Tonxin or "cute" motors:
Weight.jpg

The clearance between the disk boss and side plate is a full 18mm, which means it will fit most mechanical and hydraulic disk calipers just fine. This is an important criteria for overall compatibity with modern bicycles.
Disk Clearance.jpg

The hub casing is press fit over the steel magnet ring, but it came apart with a standard gear puller without issue, though we had to use a disk rotor mounted on the side plate to give something for the puller jaws to pull against, as the motor doesn't have the normal spoke flanges that are typically employed:

Opened.jpg

Internally, this motor has a 154mm magnet ring ID, a total of 20 magnet pole pairs, and a 36 tooth stator. That is identical to the Nine Continent FH154 motor spec, which used to be common before the larger 205mm motors took over.

ID.jpg

However, where it differs is in the ring thickness.This 'G' series motor is just 25mm wide:

Magnet Width.jpg

While the sample FH/RH154 hubs we got from 9C had a 40mm wide stator and magnet:

FH154 Rotor.jpg

So we would expect the Crystalyte 'G' motors to be about 38% less powerful than the 9C variant of the same diameter.
 
justin_le said:
So we would expect the Crystalyte 'G' motors to be about 38% less powerful than the 9C variant of the same diameter.

And the Dyno Tests basically confirmed that. Crysatlyte has two winding options listed on their site, a 40kph and 30kph model, and we were sent the 30kph variant which was marked 4x16, so a 4 parallel 16 turn wind.

At 36V, it barely reached 300 watts of peak output power. The measured values are shown with markers, while the line shows the theoretical curves from the model that would be drawn by the simulator:

G Dyno Test at 36V.jpg

At 48V, the output power maxed out at more like 500 watts, though at pretty low (55-60%) efficiency.

The other thing we looked at is the cogging torque, which is often a concern for people with direct drive hubs and which you'd expect to be really low for a small motor like this. However, it actually wasn't anything special, the static cogging torque was over 0.5 Nm and about 0.6 to 0.7 N-m at normal cruising speeds. This is a little bit less but pretty similar on the whole to the larger 400 series crystalyte motors.

No Load Torques.jpg

In any case, for those who wanted to play with it I put the motor up on our simulator, http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator, listed as the "Clyte G2530". You'll notice that the G2440 option is modeled too. This was done just extrapolating the info from Crystalyte's website in conjunction with our test results on the G2430 hub but without an actual dyno test, and so might not be totally accurate.

I'd be curious to hear of other people's firsthand experience with this motor. Anyone really loving it?

-Justin
 
Any chance of throwing the Tongxin/Cute motor into the simulator? I'm riding a light weight road bicycle now that could use a feather weight front hub helper. The lightest quiet hub that can do just 200w of output for 10minutes is what I'm looking for.
 
liveforphysics said:
Any chance of throwing the Tongxin/Cute motor into the simulator? I'm riding a light weight road bicycle now that could use a feather weight front hub helper. The lightest quiet hub that can do just 200w of output for 10minutes is what I'm looking for.

I'd be interested in that too - I've been pushing my Tongxin @ 63v/11amps/650watts peak for over 2000miles now - 25mph top speed in 700cc wheel.

It's just mildly warm when I get home from my 25min commute. Anything over 650 watts from the controller and controlling the clutch slip is difficult.
 
Nice review Justin, and thanks for the photos inside. Interesting to see they have a fairly solid stator and a large ID bearing on one side. This would be great for fitting upgraded phase wiring through, if only it was worth the effort given the poor performance to start with. Those features if shared with the H35s would be nice for hot rodding.
For those who want the shortened version based on what we already knew and now with Justin's latest and comprehensive findings:
Crystalyte G series, you are the weakest link. Goodbye!

liveforphysics said:
I'm riding a light weight road bicycle now that could use a feather weight front hub helper.
haha talk about from one extreme to the other!
 
liveforphysics said:
Any chance of throwing the Tongxin/Cute motor into the simulator? I'm riding a light weight road bicycle now that could use a feather weight front hub helper. The lightest quiet hub that can do just 200w of output for 10minutes is what I'm looking for.
You sure that's not missing a few trailing zeros? ;)

Really, though, I would like to see the Tongxin in there, too, as it mght help me model what I will be able to do with it as middrive on the Nishik-E.
 
I would actually like to see the roller gear motor being availible to buy. The idea of a truly quiet gear motor that is light weight is really appealing to me. Tongxin is roller geared, right?

otherDoc
 
docnjoj said:
I would actually like to see the roller gear motor being availible to buy. The idea of a truly quiet gear motor that is light weight is really appealing to me. Tongxin is roller geared, right?

otherDoc

Yup - whisper quiet and great freewheeling too.

I'm happy with mine and seems to be taking the abuse quite well - I just make sure I don't use it from a stand still and I'm easy on the throttle until up to speed.

It's deffinately an assist motor, not a throttle only motor though.
 
The thing looks really good, and the cassette is awesome.

Otherwise this is not tiny enough for the pedal-assist and not tough enough for hackers.

But man, it looks like some type of futuristic robot hub motor. :mrgreen:
 
liveforphysics said:
Any chance of throwing the Tongxin/Cute motor into the simulator? I'm riding a light weight road bicycle now that could use a feather weight front hub helper. The lightest quiet hub that can do just 200w of output for 10minutes is what I'm looking for.

Luke, I was presuming that your tongue was firmly in cheek here. But indeed, post a picture here of yourself lycra clad on a skinny tire road bicycle and I will bend over to put anything up on the simulator for you!

-Justin
 
justin_le said:
liveforphysics said:
Any chance of throwing the Tongxin/Cute motor into the simulator? I'm riding a light weight road bicycle now that could use a feather weight front hub helper. The lightest quiet hub that can do just 200w of output for 10minutes is what I'm looking for.

Luke, I was presuming that your tongue was firmly in cheek here. But indeed, post a picture here of yourself lycra clad on a skinny tire road bicycle and I will bend over to put anything up on the simulator for you!

-Justin

Ooh, I have a strong feeling you'll actually get the lycra photo.

IIRC, Luke's made mention of owning a weightweenie road bike in the past.
 
Back
Top