new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?
- Thread starter emaayan
- Start date
gman1971
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2015
- Messages
- 976
robocam said:
Phase amps is the keyword, and these guys are not wrong, BTW... but that's only if measuring 40 amps at motor cable (phase amps), not the average input amps measured at shunt; as to achieve 40A requires the same voltage for the internal resistance of the motor; but 40A at shunt (before controller) doesn't really tell you how the phase amps are working (peak torque). So the real answer its all depends on how the motor controller works. On a chopper circuit if set to 40A then once it reaches the desired current the circuit cuts off, so peak torque is the same, now how fast you get to this peak torque changes due to the higher voltage. For example, you could also do full voltage (72V) pulses, that will give you whatever current you can deliver to the motor with its internal resistance (ohm's law), and full 36V pulses will give you a much lower peak torque, that is how most cheap RC motor controllers work, they just pulse the voltage in a timed fashion, yet the average measured current at the battery might not match the peak amps measured at the motor. Effectively the motor is an open circuit at rest, just the iR is the only thing in the current's path. Peak torque is achieved at zero RPM, so it depends on how the control circuitry works. So if it uses timed pulses, 72V over 1/100th of a second will give more peak torque than a 36V pulse over 1/100th of a second, vs if its using a true CC phase amp it will give you the same peak torque.
From personal experience I can tell you that my Cyclone eBike on 48V running 40A vs my Cyclone eTrike A-2 running 72V @ 40A are on different worlds in terms of performance. The trike pulls a lot harder than the eBike, throughout the entire powerband, which tells me that the Cyclone controller has something that isn't exactly constant current at the phase amps.
Also measuring torque alone isn't very useful, as torque alone means nothing (maybe for internet bench-racing...); in the end, the ability of 72V to deliver 40A is double of a 36V, so the motor at 72V can spin a lot more RPM before not being able to deliver 40A (b/c as RPM increases, so does the voltage to maintain such RPM, until the V required for the given RPM exceeds the battery voltage, the motor doesn't spin any faster) than a 36V system, even though the peak torque might be the same using a CC circuit; except that the power of a 72V is double of a 36V @ 40A system.
G.
gman1971
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2015
- Messages
- 976
On a personal note, this is the perfect example of stupid interview trick question, in this case its aimed to confuse torque with power... like which one of the following weighs more: one pound of steel or one pound of paper?, aimed to confuse weight with visual size; neither of these question in themselves is of no use, except maybe to fool some ppl and make them feel embarrassed b/c they didn't really thought too much of the question, as they should; and the sole fact of asking this kind of logic trickery is a waste of time, as ppl will get to the right answer through many different ways regardless of how smart (or lack thereof) you think they are.... also, this kind of questioning proves absolutely nothing to get anything done, except maybe denote that someone has studied the matter and now feels the urge to educate/correct others with their vast knowledge...
In my years as a programmer I've seen ppl who knew the theory really really well, things like dot products, cross products, etc, all that, ppl who studied them for years and knew it probably better than I did... they memorized it all, but then when the time came to apply the theory, they simply blanked out, they couldn't program their way out of a paper bag. Knowing and understanding are two different things. and as Albert Einstein said, "never memorize something that you can look up"
G.
In my years as a programmer I've seen ppl who knew the theory really really well, things like dot products, cross products, etc, all that, ppl who studied them for years and knew it probably better than I did... they memorized it all, but then when the time came to apply the theory, they simply blanked out, they couldn't program their way out of a paper bag. Knowing and understanding are two different things. and as Albert Einstein said, "never memorize something that you can look up"
G.
markz
100 TW
robocam said:
If that be the case then, its better to just buy the Cycle 3000W if you want the extra reduction, which is what I wanted, but ended up buying the 4kw. Wont be too too hard to do a 3:1 reduction if I absolutely need it on the 4kw. Guess the only adv is the 60A cont.
Hi guys what do you recommend for a chain from the stock 14T to large chainring?
Are you guys using a half link chain? I like to get as tight fit as possible to reduce chain play/noise.
Do you guys also remove the idle wheel and try to shorten the chain by removing links??
Are you guys using a half link chain? I like to get as tight fit as possible to reduce chain play/noise.
Do you guys also remove the idle wheel and try to shorten the chain by removing links??
markz
100 TW
ebike11 - I was wondering about the chain from 14T to 44T, perhaps its a #35 chain. SickBikeParts has a 13T and ebay sells a gokart #35 split gear from 52 on up (54/58/60/62/64/66/68/69/70/72.......) but again, I wonder if stock its a #35 chain or not.
http://sickbikeparts.com/electric-motor-freewheel-13t/
http://sickbikeparts.com/sprocket-09-tooth-for-shift-kit/
http://sickbikeparts.com/sprocket-10-tooth-standard-for-shift-kit/
http://sickbikeparts.com/sprocket-11-tooth-for-shift-kit/
Heres a random #35 sprocket, perhaps the shape of the teeth is a clue.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/14-teeth-35-chain-weld-on-sprocket/A-p8609414e
http://sickbikeparts.com/electric-motor-freewheel-13t/
http://sickbikeparts.com/sprocket-09-tooth-for-shift-kit/
http://sickbikeparts.com/sprocket-10-tooth-standard-for-shift-kit/
http://sickbikeparts.com/sprocket-11-tooth-for-shift-kit/
Heres a random #35 sprocket, perhaps the shape of the teeth is a clue.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/14-teeth-35-chain-weld-on-sprocket/A-p8609414e
markz
100 TW
Better to go #35 chain with #35 sprocket, then go-cart #35 gear
Then the weakest link is the bicycle drive train. But if you dont shift while power is on, then it survive longer.
Then the weakest link is the bicycle drive train. But if you dont shift while power is on, then it survive longer.
gman1971 said:
I didnt get a chain with my kit. Is KMC bmx bike chain good enough? Maybe half link chain?
On a different note...when trying to assemble my cyclone 3000 i noticed the non drive side mounting plate is quite thin. I was thinking..could we use 1 or 2 extra and tighten them togwther and get longer motor bolts to stiffen up motor from flex?
Gman1971
Nice. Are you drifting there? Prob not. Just enough blur to the picture to make it look that way. Do you pedal sometimes or mostly always? You have front suspension right, which would help with leaning into corners and normal road bumps, alowing for higher speeds. Does the rear tire ever break free? I'm getting that on bumps, my brooks sattle with springs needs a shock absorber, to reduce bounce. I've looked at the sport bike (motorcycle) steerering stabilizers to use but don't know if a shock to a seat is feasible. Something packed into the springs could work I think.
Nice. Are you drifting there? Prob not. Just enough blur to the picture to make it look that way. Do you pedal sometimes or mostly always? You have front suspension right, which would help with leaning into corners and normal road bumps, alowing for higher speeds. Does the rear tire ever break free? I'm getting that on bumps, my brooks sattle with springs needs a shock absorber, to reduce bounce. I've looked at the sport bike (motorcycle) steerering stabilizers to use but don't know if a shock to a seat is feasible. Something packed into the springs could work I think.
gman1971
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2015
- Messages
- 976
Skaiwerd said:
Thanks.
No, not there, we were just coasting to a stop when picture was taken.... I rarely drift onroad as I don't want to roast the tires... in the past I've done drifting on the wet (or snow) without much of a problem... but its an art, otherwise you can roll the trike.
See here for me drifting the trike... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HASmlukfo9Q
I do have a front suspension with air shocks, but no rear, and the ride is so nice it rivals my car. Most of the weight on my trikes is also over the front wheels too, so the rear wheel rarely bounces off the ground unless its a very big pothole. The front suspension makes the trike also considerably wider so there is less of a need to lean into the turns.
A brooks saddle probably wont work on the KMX trike... so I am not sure how that would work, but yeah adding something to rub might help. Someone a while back suggested the idea of using an elastomer block on the seat mounting point, but on the KMX that might not work b/c the seat is also attached/bolted to the rear frame. Truth is tho, that the times in which I think I needed a rear suspension is maybe once a week, at worst; but the times I am glad I have a front suspension is like 1000 times per ride, or more...
I've ridden the trike at 65 mph without steering dampers, and the thing just drives like its on rails, BUT... you need to properly align the front wheels, b/c if you don't, it will feel super-unstable at high speeds.
I pedal mostly when riding weekend adventures with my family, the rest of the time is dummy pedaling at 30-35 mph...
G.
markz
100 TW
No need to drift, unless its just for $hit$ n Giggle$
DingusMcGee
10 kW
I just send an email to Cyclone Taiwan:
Mr. Paco,
you did say,
It is now Sept 4, Where are they?
Dingus McGee
Mr. Paco,
you did say,
It is now Sept 4, Where are they?
Dingus McGee
markz
100 TW
the elite kit is the frame right?
If so then perhaps its the new frame thats slowing it all down and not the cyclone kit itself. Some reasonings maybe new product makes it popular, maybe they were too eager to list the product without proper inventory/production throughput, problems on the assembly line. For my sake I hope its the frame itself causing the problem because I want my C4K right away, I ordered mine Monday, August 28, 2017 around 5pm MST so its been literally one week today. If the C4K is the same as the C3K just without a final 3:1 reduction, then I dont see how thats a problem for them. Long time running that line.
If so then perhaps its the new frame thats slowing it all down and not the cyclone kit itself. Some reasonings maybe new product makes it popular, maybe they were too eager to list the product without proper inventory/production throughput, problems on the assembly line. For my sake I hope its the frame itself causing the problem because I want my C4K right away, I ordered mine Monday, August 28, 2017 around 5pm MST so its been literally one week today. If the C4K is the same as the C3K just without a final 3:1 reduction, then I dont see how thats a problem for them. Long time running that line.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Pablo of Cyclone replies quite promptly,
I allowed as they say 40 days for special orders [taper steering tube?] and when some retailer says 40 days I take that to mean 40 business days which about the time duration since I paypal transferred the money.
Pablo did also send some pictures of what might be my frame?
I allowed as they say 40 days for special orders [taper steering tube?] and when some retailer says 40 days I take that to mean 40 business days which about the time duration since I paypal transferred the money.
Pablo did also send some pictures of what might be my frame?
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Thanks Gman,
Paco says it will be here in 4 days.
Paco says it will be here in 4 days.
markz
100 TW
My Cyclone 4K came in the mail just now. I am super stoked!!!!!!
I can't believe it came so quickly.
Paid for it on August 28
Came at 1pm MST on Sept. 5
So 8 days.
I requested nothing, did not pay anything extra beyond Cyclone TW website.
I can't believe it came so quickly.
Paid for it on August 28
Came at 1pm MST on Sept. 5
So 8 days.
I requested nothing, did not pay anything extra beyond Cyclone TW website.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
I ordered the elite frame with mods but they did not charge for that change.
