new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[markz]

gman1971 - I just ordered the Cyclone 4kw kit right from Cyclone in Taiwan, not the frame. So my assumptions were correct previous post the box says EMS Speedpost.

Just had to go out and buy Park crank arm removal tool $20cdn and Park bb removal tool $20, gotta go out again and buy an adj crescent wrench for the 1 1/4" bb removal tool. It did not take anytime at all to install. Not sure how others did theirs but I kept the brackets in place when installed.

One question though, for the two spinners on the gear side that touch the bottom bracket, are they suppose to be touching each other or apart like 1/2-1/3". Not sure what you call them but they both have the notches in them for that special tool to tighten/loosen.

I will post up some pictures when my battery is fully charged and I go out for a spin in about an hour or so.

 

[gman1971]

gman1971 - I just ordered the Cyclone 4kw kit right from Cyclone in Taiwan, not the frame. So my assumptions were correct previous post the box says EMS Speedpost.

Just had to go out and buy Park crank arm removal tool $20cdn and Park bb removal tool $20, gotta go out again and buy an adj crescent wrench for the 1 1/4" bb removal tool. It did not take anytime at all to install. Not sure how others did theirs but I kept the brackets in place when installed.

One question though, for the two spinners on the gear side that touch the bottom bracket, are they suppose to be touching each other or apart like 1/2-1/3". Not sure what you call them but they both have the notches in them for that special tool to tighten/loosen.

I will post up some pictures when my battery is fully charged and I go out for a spin in about an hour or so.

Ah, so can you use the 4kW motor on a regular bb?

G.

 

[markz]

Mine came with no chain supplied.


Yup
The Townie has a 6xmm bb
I find something wrong with it though, got it going and once throttle is applied the chain, drive sprocket will click, and I see the chain jumping with the idler in place. My chain is a 7 speed chain with quite a bit of slack, so perhaps the issue is I need a single speed chain on the drive gear to crank gear. Closer inspection (in the living room) found the drive sprocket moved a bit outwards. Realigned it as best I could.

Can I just use a 1 speed chain and be done with the idler pulley?

 

[gman1971]

Oh, I see so it just mounts like the C3000W... I was thinking you were going to use the motor directly to the rear cassette, like the frame version... that would make a lot of sense, you lose the extra chain and the losses/maintenance associated with it.

Post some pics when you have a chance!

G.

Mine came with no chain supplied.


Yup
The Townie has a 6xmm bb
I find something wrong with it though, got it going and once throttle is applied the chain, drive sprocket will click, and I see the chain jumping with the idler in place. My chain is a 7 speed chain with quite a bit of slack, so perhaps the issue is I need a single speed chain on the drive gear to crank gear. Closer inspection (in the living room) found the drive sprocket moved a bit outwards. Realigned it as best I could.

Can I just use a 1 speed chain and be done with the idler pulley?

 

[markz]

Just trying to figure what to do with the skipping.
I looked at the sprocket on the chain, and the chain lifts up on the top forward part when its happening.
I did not see the chain bounce up.
Took the tension off the idler and it still happened. Gotta be the motor sprocket and loose 7spd chain. I doubt that happens with a misaligned idler.
Tomorrow will buy a bmx or 1spd chain and see if the chain can get tight without idler.
Dunno what else to do, well final option is a piece of metal, slotted groove for a bike store idler placement.

SBP HD Crank Freewheel maybe needed too.

 

[markz]

View attachment 1

 

[mattrb]

Good News!

I just got the 4000w cyclone elite bike in the mail. I am setting it up right now. I tested the motor and it works great. I will have some video and pictures once I get it all set up .

 

[markz]

Thats good mate.
I can baby the shit out of mine until it slips when there is too much torque, thinking its the crank freewheel.

 

[markz]

Found the culprit, took off the crank side all together, moved the chain to the smallest cog on rear cassette and it works fine, no slippage. Good for short commutes (with no significant hills) in the meantime. Riding with right foot hanging out of the way.

View attachment 2
View attachment 1

 

[Dogboy1200]

I don't think that freewheel is the problem. The reason it works now is because when you eliminated the freewheel you no longer have the gear reduction so your torque at the cassette is greatly reduced. It's probably skipping on the cassette.

 

[minimum]

My 3k 3-spd kit started throwing off the driving chain after 200km as well. Front freewheel developed a small play. That, along with a play between left side bearings and shaft plus bearings and their cup(?) added up to a significant play in BB shaft and driven (outer) sprocket. Once decent torque was applied by motor, off the chain went.
Play around bearings is so bad I got "wandering" bearing:


Either the machine shop Cyclone gets their metal parts is doing a lousy job or the tolerances specified are excessive.

 

[markz]

This is exactly what I see
A) The drive gear spins
B) The torque tightens up the chain on the drive gear
C) The chain lifts up on the top & front (of bike) on the drive gear
D) Then it slips and clicks

I am thinking its one of two problems
Primary Culprit #1 The chain itself is slipping on the drive gear, because what I see is the chain not advancing forward, but everything on the motor is spinning. This is with the stock tensioner at various strengths. So its a tensioner issue not keeping the chain on the drive spocket, and the chain jumping over the driver sprocket. This is my best guess after a handful of miles staring at it while riding.

What I need to confirm is if the drive gear sprocket itself advances and the chain does not. What I am looking at is the chain link that snaps on for easy install, thats my reference. From what I've looked at the sprocket itself stays engage in one or two chain holes at the very top. I bought some Shimano replacement pulleys and a 1spd SRAM chain. I am hoping, that the 1spd chain allows for very minimal slack and no need to frock around with the tensioner.

Or #2 the freewheel action of the crank itself is toast. Which is a good assumption, and it would be a great item to upgrade to SBP's or hopefully something more local. But logic says there's probably a minimal chance of that being the issue seeing as how the chains doing what its doing. But with 380lbs or so starting from zero, I can see how it can break and will break sooner then later.

Those are the only two conclusions I come too.

The rear cassette is a valid argument, but I feel and hear the slippage coming from the crank area.

Kinda bummed, but knew the issues buying it.

 

[gman1971]

My 3k 3-spd kit started throwing off the driving chain after 200km as well. Front freewheel developed a small play. That, along with a play between left side bearings and shaft plus bearings and their cup(?) added up to a significant play in BB shaft and driven (outer) sprocket. Once decent torque was applied by motor, off the chain went.
Play around bearings is so bad I got "wandering" bearing:


Either the machine shop Cyclone gets their metal parts is doing a lousy job or the tolerances specified are excessive.

200km and throwing chains? wow, sounds like something isn't properly installed or broken... I have 13000 miles combined on x3 C3000W kits and I've only thrown the chain twice (once on my eBike and once on my A-1 trike, A-2 has been troublefree)

That looks like the square taper BB to me, those are utter crap, to put it plain and simple. I had one on my 1st Cyclone eBike 2 1/2 years ago, it came apart shortly because of the play in the bearings. Got the ISIS BB, and never looked back. I have only derailled the motor chain on my trike A-1 once, and it was because the tensioner/idler wasn't properly tightened so it acted as a derailleur...

Also, before you assemble the crank freewheel you need to open it up and use loctite on the threads so it never comes undone and causes extra wobbles; mine came undone after 200 miles as well, in the end I got the White Industries UHD and never looked back.

Read the comments on this thread about motor mounts too, your motor mount might've flexed if you didn't do any of the mods described in this thread. I am also doubtful that the new Luna angled/black anodized motor mount is any better than the original one, b/c that one still only has two attachment points vs. three in Robocam's mount mod, which has survived 80-90A peaks on my trike for almost 2 years now, without chains thrown.

G.

 

[gman1971]

B) This seems wrong. The chain should be tight at all times, not have any slack at all, even at rest, if it isn't then either you need to use a tensioner, or if you are it needs to be installed on the return side of the chain, if you don't it will throw chains. Also, an improperly aligned tensioner will cause chains to throw as well; check the chainline is straight at the motor. I have half links on all my chains, and I still need tensioner on all of them.

Never heard of a chain slipping on a drive gear, perhaps you mean teeth are skipping? If its skipping the chain is probably done; could you measure stretch in the chain? Wrong gearing will stretch chains faster than you can think of.

If you're not using a BMX chain on the motor chances are the motor chain is done now 200 Km moving 380lbs with the wrong gearing. What is the teeth count on the motor and the teeth count on the chainring to the motor? If its not a motor 14T cog into anything above 48T chainring chances are that a non BMX chain + 380lbs + 200 km + 3kW = dead chain.

Given your weight you must use something like Wolftooth 49T or 50T rear cog on the cassette; I would do a motor 14T cog into a 48T chainring, then a 36T chainring to either a 50T rear or a 49T rear cassette cog. I would stay away from any gear under 28T on the cassette, unless you like fixing things in a daily basis.

I would also enable mode #3 on the stock Cyclone controller too, that will give you extra RPM per gear and reduce the torque of the motor (See my signature in the power mod how to do this)

G.

This is exactly what I see
A) The drive gear spins
B) The torque tightens up the chain on the drive gear
C) The chain lifts up on the top & front (of bike) on the drive gear
D) Then it slips and clicks

I am thinking its one of two problems
Primary Culprit #1 The chain itself is slipping on the drive gear, because what I see is the chain not advancing forward, but everything on the motor is spinning. This is with the stock tensioner at various strengths. So its a tensioner issue not keeping the chain on the drive spocket, and the chain jumping over the driver sprocket. This is my best guess after a handful of miles staring at it while riding.

What I need to confirm is if the drive gear sprocket itself advances and the chain does not. What I am looking at is the chain link that snaps on for easy install, thats my reference. From what I've looked at the sprocket itself stays engage in one or two chain holes at the very top. I bought some Shimano replacement pulleys and a 1spd SRAM chain. I am hoping, that the 1spd chain allows for very minimal slack and no need to frock around with the tensioner.

Or #2 the freewheel action of the crank itself is toast. Which is a good assumption, and it would be a great item to upgrade to SBP's or hopefully something more local. But logic says there's probably a minimal chance of that being the issue seeing as how the chains doing what its doing. But with 380lbs or so starting from zero, I can see how it can break and will break sooner then later.

Those are the only two conclusions I come too.

The rear cassette is a valid argument, but I feel and hear the slippage coming from the crank area.

Kinda bummed, but knew the issues buying it.

 

[CobraJet]

Chain slipping on drive gear means wrong chain or stretched chain or misalignment or worn sprocket.

 

[minimum]

That looks like the square taper BB to me, those are utter crap, to put it plain and simple. I had one on my 1st Cyclone eBike 2 1/2 years ago, it came apart shortly because of the play in the bearings. Got the ISIS BB, and never looked back. I have only derailled the motor chain on my trike A-1 once, and it was because the tensioner/idler wasn't properly tightened so it acted as a derailleur...

I honestly fail to see what shaft's end tapers have to do with quality of machining parts. Only relating parts to tapers - cranks are attaching solidly, no complaints there. I was complaining about bearing seats (both, on shaft and in cup) that are far off their rated tolerances and thus play in-between creates significant twist on shaft's axis.

I literally stuffed some random junk between BB shaft and outer bearing and jammed outer bearing back to get back riding. More than 70km since and no issues. Coming no-riding season will pull it apart and fix it properly.

Also, before you assemble the crank freewheel you need to open it up and use loctite on the threads so it never comes undone and causes extra wobbles; mine came undone after 200 miles as well, in the end I got the White Industries UHD and never looked back.

I couldn't open mine, so I'm guessing it's not an issue.

Read the comments on this thread about motor mounts too, your motor mount might've flexed if you didn't do any of the mods described in this thread. I am also doubtful that the new Luna angled/black anodized motor mount is any better than the original one, b/c that one still only has two attachment points vs. three in Robocam's mount mod, which has survived 80-90A peaks on my trike for almost 2 years now, without chains thrown.

I've got the new design mounts and I'm quite satisfied with them. When I was ordering I was already planning to make my own on CNC mill but these work, so why bother.

 

[gman1971]

Hope it all works out for you.

G.

That looks like the square taper BB to me, those are utter crap, to put it plain and simple. I had one on my 1st Cyclone eBike 2 1/2 years ago, it came apart shortly because of the play in the bearings. Got the ISIS BB, and never looked back. I have only derailled the motor chain on my trike A-1 once, and it was because the tensioner/idler wasn't properly tightened so it acted as a derailleur...

I honestly fail to see what shaft's end tapers have to do with quality of machining parts. Only relating parts to tapers - cranks are attaching solidly, no complaints there. I was complaining about bearing seats (both, on shaft and in cup) that are far off their rated tolerances and thus play in-between creates significant twist on shaft's axis.

I literally stuffed some random junk between BB shaft and outer bearing and jammed outer bearing back to get back riding. More than 70km since and no issues. Coming no-riding season will pull it apart and fix it properly.

Also, before you assemble the crank freewheel you need to open it up and use loctite on the threads so it never comes undone and causes extra wobbles; mine came undone after 200 miles as well, in the end I got the White Industries UHD and never looked back.

I couldn't open mine, so I'm guessing it's not an issue.

Read the comments on this thread about motor mounts too, your motor mount might've flexed if you didn't do any of the mods described in this thread. I am also doubtful that the new Luna angled/black anodized motor mount is any better than the original one, b/c that one still only has two attachment points vs. three in Robocam's mount mod, which has survived 80-90A peaks on my trike for almost 2 years now, without chains thrown.

I've got the new design mounts and I'm quite satisfied with them. When I was ordering I was already planning to make my own on CNC mill but these work, so why bother.

 

[ebike11]

@gman.....here is a 54T chainring that I found. A bit pricier compared to other chainrings on aliexpress but if it can give me more top end then ill be happy.
Its 104bcd 54T

https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32800767071.html?spm=a2g0n.search-cache.0.0.7f25570fLG0Rqb#autostay

 

[gman1971]

Wow!!! Good find man, I might take one for myself as well. Thanks!! The only thing to watch out for is that chainring is made out of Aluminum and not Steel, so that might lead to premature chain wear, again, something to watch out for... but I still think you should get it.

So I would do a 48 to 14T drive cog, then a 54T to cassette, and if you go with the 54T perhaps you want to also use a 32T on the inside as a two shift chainring? 54 might not be suitable for steep climbs on pedal power alone...

G.

 

[ebike11]

Wow!!! Good find man, I might take one for myself as well. Thanks!! The only thing to watch out for is that chainring is made out of Aluminum and not Steel, so that might lead to premature chain wear, again, something to watch out for... but I still think you should get it.

So I would do a 48 to 14T drive cog, then a 54T to cassette, and if you go with the 54T perhaps you want to also use a 32T on the inside as a two shift chainring? 54 might not be suitable for steep climbs on pedal power alone...

G.

Yeah good idea!

 

[ebike11]

Wow!!! Good find man, I might take one for myself as well. Thanks!! The only thing to watch out for is that chainring is made out of Aluminum and not Steel, so that might lead to premature chain wear, again, something to watch out for... but I still think you should get it.

So I would do a 48 to 14T drive cog, then a 54T to cassette, and if you go with the 54T perhaps you want to also use a 32T on the inside as a two shift chainring? 54 might not be suitable for steep climbs on pedal power alone...

G.

Yeah good idea!

Also ill look for steel 54T

 

[gman1971]

Wow!!! Good find man, I might take one for myself as well. Thanks!! The only thing to watch out for is that chainring is made out of Aluminum and not Steel, so that might lead to premature chain wear, again, something to watch out for... but I still think you should get it.

So I would do a 48 to 14T drive cog, then a 54T to cassette, and if you go with the 54T perhaps you want to also use a 32T on the inside as a two shift chainring? 54 might not be suitable for steep climbs on pedal power alone...

G.

Yeah good idea!

Also ill look for steel 54T

Cool! Sounds good!

G.

 

[gman1971]

Luna has been out of parts whenever I've been ready to buy. Im looking at the cyclone-tw page now. I need a clockwise motor since my chain is driven from the rider's right side, correct?

No, all you need is a clockwise freewheel, the motor can spin both directions, to reverse the rotation you need to switching two phase cables and two hall sensors.

G.

 

[markz]

Wrong chain, I figured a 7,8,9 spd chain would be alright, which is all I had and yes it was a new KMC.

I bought an SRAM 1spd, is that the same as BMX chain?

 

[GIGATT]

What pieces are you missing?
Dont worry about the sticker, all the pics I've seen he has his logo on the motor, circle bit.
https://lunacycle.com/mini-cyclone-kit/

https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/01/12/cyclone-3000w-mid-drive-if-youre-gonna-build-something-this-illegal-then-it-better-be-able-to-outrun-the-cops/
down a bit on the page

YESSIR, THAT lUNA cYCLE WORD on the side IS MISSING ON MY KIT... NO STICKER no logo... AAAH WELL I GOT OVER IT. I guess they did not want to promote themselves. Also my motor mounts are different, But it all works.

I AM MISSING THE MOUNT PIECEs CIRCcled in red and a few other small pieces, I think. Nothing that is major enough to stop me from cruising down the street is missing. Thumbs up for cyclone even @36 volts.

I didn't get a Luna sticker either, but when I emailed them about it, they sent me some for free. Why do you think you're missing other pieces?

I did not even get a Luna Sticker:-(.

I feel like I am missing other pieces too.