new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[DingusMcGee]

Would 2 C-3000's on one bike be better than one 7200 watt cyclone?

 

[sather]

What a cool idea. One inside the triangle and one below the bottom bracket. But you would have to figure out how to modulate all that low end power. It would be hard to get the bike started without flipping the bike over onto the rider or snapping chains instantly. Maybe have two separate throttles.

The 7200 is not geared down at all, so I don't think that startup torque would be a problem. Coming up with a battery that puts out 120 amps would be the issue with the 7200.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Has anyone used their stock Bottom Bracket and Crank's with the Cyclone 3000 w Mid-Drive ?

I have the Shimano 2 piece crankset , http://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-Deore-M615-10-SPEED-Crankset?cs=Black
with the Outer Bearings .
http://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-XT-BB-MT800-Bottom-Bracket?cs=Black

( as opposed to the Square Taper 3 piece system.

Is it possible ?

 

[juanfeli]

No it isn't because you need a big clearance between the cranks and the motor. Cyclone BB are 148mm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScooterMan101]

But the BB that comes with the Cyclone 3000 w kit at Luna Cycle LLC. ... http://lunacycle.com/cyclone-mid-drive-3000w-planetary-kit/

Says the included BB is 68 - 83mm . You have the ... option , of getting a wider 83 mm - 110 mm BB.

So since it comes with a BB that is 68 mm-83 mm I would guess that the motor is thin / just wide enough, to fit between standard cranks/MTB BB widths of 73mm ?

My MTB frame has a BB width of 73 mm

Interesting / Strange that Luna does not show a diagram of the measurements of the Cyclone 3000 watt motor kit .

What is the Width of the Cyclone 3000 w motor and Freewheel, Gear ?

What is the Width of the Mini Cyclone 2000 w motor/freewheel/gear ?

No it isn't because you need a big clearance between the cranks and the motor. Cyclone BB are 148mm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScooterMan101]

More research is showing that the Cyclone 300w kit has
not only a freewheel on the motor shaft,
But
A Freewheel on the crank set as well .

Not understanding why, two freewheels are needed, ... or are 2 freewheels necessary ?

A / The Freewheel / Cog on the motor shaft would be enough to pedal like a regular bike when motor is off ?

 

[sather]

The Cyclone has a 44 tooth crank with a FREEWHEEL inside it that must line up with the 13 tooth motor sprocket and still leave room for another 44 tooth sprocket that drives the rear wheel. Even if you could get your regular crank to line up with the motor sprocket, there would be no freewheel inside it and your pedals would spin at 180-220 rpms.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Since the Cyclone 3000 w , has a planetary gear reduction of 5 to 1
and the motor sprocket tooth count is 13 , and the crank chainring is 44
to get the crank to spin slower to the usual 70-90/100 rpm

By just using a regular crankset with a chainring of 50 tooth
( 13 tooth on the motor to 50 tooth on the crankset ) ( lining up the 13 motor tooth, with the 50 tooth crankset )

... what would be the RPM / Cadence of the cranks then ?

... What would be the RPM / Cadence be with a 52 tooth outer Chainring ?

( there are even 53 tooth chainrings available )

The Cyclone has a 44 tooth crank with a FREEWHEEL inside it that must line up with the 13 tooth motor sprocket and still leave room for another 44 tooth sprocket that drives the rear wheel. Even if you could get your regular crank to line up with the motor sprocket, there would be no freewheel inside it and your pedals would spin at 180-220 rpms.

 

[juanfeli]

You can see the motor size here http://www.cyclone-tw.com/dc24.htm and the available chairing sizes here http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-chainwheel.htm

 

[sather]

The motor shaft after the six to one reduction is 600 rpm at 48 volts. If you reduced it with a 13t front and 52 tooth chainring you would still have the crank rpm of 150 rpm. Are you comprehending that there is no freewheel on a regular crankset? As long as the motor is running the pedals are going to be spinning. Presumably your feet are going to be on the pedals, so your legs are going to be spinning passively at 150 rpm.

 

[ScooterMan101]

There is no Freewheel on a Conventional Crankset , the Freewheel on Hub-Motor , and , Non Motor Bikes is on the rear wheel.

Looks like I would have to go with the included crankset with freewheel If I were get the Cyclone 3000w ( I am only looking at it since $ 300 is my upper budget for another motor / Kit )
However

I wonder if the Cyclone 2000w ( what Luna calls the Mini Cyclone Kit ) would be better , the weight is less, which is important to me.
and I can get along with 1000 watts or a little more on my Rear Mac 6T motor. so even 1,600 watts to ,900 watts of power should be good enough for me.
BUT
The Price if the Mini Kit is prohibitive, there is also the better add on's like better operating throttle $ 20 , etc.

It seems backwards, regarding pricing on those kits ?!? I would think/ want the Mini Cyclone Kit to Be $ 300, especially with all the DIY work involved with Cyclone Kits .

I would buy a Mini , full kit for $ 300

Anyone have experience with the Mini Cyclone Kit ?

It says it has a 7 to one planetary gear reduction, wonder what a 13 tooth at the Mini, and 52 or 53 tooth at the crankset would spin , what RPM ?

The motor shaft after the six to one reduction is 600 rpm at 48 volts. If you reduced it with a 13t front and 52 tooth chainring you would still have the crank rpm of 150 rpm. Are you comprehending that there is no freewheel on a regular crankset? As long as the motor is running the pedals are going to be spinning. Presumably your feet are going to be on the pedals, so your legs are going to be spinning passively at 150 rpm.

 

[sather]

I believe the little Cyclone uses metal planetary gears and is quite a bit more noisy than the bigger 3000.
Sickbikeparts site: " Gearbox: Integral, Planetary - 9.55:1 Ratio (so 200- ~450* RPM shaft output)"
pablo@sickbikeparts.com
206-817-6901
jim@sickbikeparts.com
206-817-6915

 

[gman1971]

Well, its now a bit over the 3000 mile mark, still running (to some haters dismay, keep on hating).... and as I promised back during my 2000 mile update, here I am again to report another update on my custom built 6kW Cyclone e-Trike Alpha One. So as of the writing of this post the trike has 3116 miles since I built it. It is now almost paid off in terms of car payments/insurance/gas/etc... considering the cost of my initial investment and what car payments would go for a car I like. To date there has been no drivetrain issues to report, motor has been running great, rain or shine. The only thing is that went through a set of Tryker tires at about 2600 miles. This trike was built to replace my car and be safer than my eBike... and oh boy, to date it has delivered with flying colors... I am glad I built it.

So, this Thanksgiving break I did a whole winterizing project for the trike, full spike tires, etc... but more on that later. And I was going to replace the chain during this major inspection/revision as I predicted it would be close to 1.0% stretch, but to my surprise, its was still below .75% stretch so I decided that it wasn't worth changing it yet and I simply cleaned it, lubed it and left it in there... I will re-check this x-mas and see if its beyond the 0.75 mark, and then I'll probably replace it along the cassette and the chainring (which I already have). Another thing I noticed was that the rear wheel bearings were starting to go (very gritty), so finding that out was perfect timing as I was planing on swapping wheels anyways, and now I am running a brand new Deore 525 hub with my Continental Spike Claw to conquer the ice and snow... I am also tempted about slapping a pair of skies on the front, to convert the trike into a ... well... a snowmobile... should be fun.

Anyhow, so this winterizing project was more than just slapping new tires and checking chains. Among other things, the most important update I did over the break was increased battery capacity: Alpha One now has a whopping 3.3 kW h capacity (and doesn't look like the plywoodmobile either, it doesn't need to tow a trailer... and the side cases still all left for cargo...) which now translates into 110+ miles at 30 mph given the latest aerodynamic updates it has received over the course of its life. This upgrade was a must b/c with temperatures dropping fast my calculated MPG has been declining from about 1200 MPG during the summer to about 900 MPG last week; but now with the extra capacity and a new custom built LiPo heating system it should make the trike perform much like it did in summer. In order to fit the extra juice the trike also got a complete electronics overhaul along the way; it wasn't easy, because I had to move all the internal electronics around and rewired everything so now its super-nice and compact (well, as nice and compact as it can be considering how much stuff this thing has already) I also built a new HOTAS control stick, which removed a lot of the unused extra sticks and pots on the old HOTAS which I never really got around to use; I left the driving important stuff, horn, high beams, low beams and ground lighting, the rest I moved all to the dash... yep, trike has a dash now...

All in all it took me 3 days worth of work to go from a working trike, down to bare frame and back to a working trike...

The next tentative update will be a front fairing... but I am still coming to grips with the idea... we'll see.

Until the 4k mile update... folks.

G.

 

[DingusMcGee]

update on my custom built 6kW Cyclone e-Trike Alpha One

We all know gman1971 is greatest story teller ever on this thread. We ask 6kW for how long? AS we have burned 'em up at < 3000 watts. What did you cover that heat generating C-3000 motor in dry ice to get 67 mph before it burned up? You often leave out a part of the scene behind the contrived story or declaration.

Why not call it 10kW?


It is good to hear all is well and you are working on some kind of improvements.

I traded one my ebikes for a ZENN electric car that had only 1152 miles on when I got it. Can you make up a story of how you traded that kiddie trike for an even better deal? I am not worried about staying warm on the road this winter even though I have plug-in heated motorcycle clothing options on one of my ebikes.

 

[motomoto]

Hard to follow that last reply, you really have it in for gman for sure. I read all 70 pages of this thread in one sitting because
I wanted to know everything I could about the Cyclone. Seems like a pretty sturdy unit, besides the mounting. I am thinking of
building a special frame just for this power unit. It would make a pretty awesome pedal trail bike. I wouldn't want to put
much more power through a derailleur setup for the masses. Downhill suspension and a longer wheelbase to handle the power
for sure.

I like how you do the hard trail stuff. That's what I like. I long seat was mentioned. I am a big fan of that. I think a mock
motocross seat and plastic will be on my setup.

 

[Green Werks]

I am going to try this set up and see what happens

 

[DingusMcGee]

motomoto,

I have built 4 c-3000 ebike setups on 4 different frames. The wheelbases range from 41" to 46". The 41" wheelbase is the most nimble and if the bike had full suspension it would be hands down the best in difficult uphill terrain. I would not go to one of those long enduro ebike frames at 50+ wheelbase as nimbleness is quite compromised --the rear tire will be hitting everything you carefully maneuvered through with the front tire. Even the 41" wheelbase handles fine on pavement at 42 mph. As I mentioned earlier I am modifying some [new]vintage banana seats to imitate the long seat found on trail motorcycles.

As for gman1971 we know little about what his productions look like as he never includes a full photo -- But details leak out occasionally [like how he got 52 mph with his C-3000 ] --- probably Frankenstein like and he is ashamed?

Keep us posted on this build.

 

[stealth71]

update on my custom built 6kW Cyclone e-Trike Alpha One

We all know gman1971 is greatest story teller ever on this thread. We ask 6kW for how long? AS we have burned 'em up at < 3000 watts. What did you cover that heat generating C-3000 motor in dry ice to get 67 mph before it burned up? You often leave out a part of the scene behind the contrived story or declaration.

Why not call it 10kW?


It is good to hear all is well and you are working on some kind of improvements.

I traded one my ebikes for a ZENN electric car that had only 1152 miles on when I got it. Can you make up a story of how you traded that kiddie trike for an even better deal? I am not worried about staying warm on the road this winter even though I have plug-in heated motorcycle clothing options on one of my ebikes.

Wow. Impressive. Nothing like going 25mph in a POS that you can't buy parts for. I guess some plywood and drywall screws can fix anything. That orange slow moving vehicle triangle gets the ladies going wild.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Stealth 71, "hmm?", you must be one of the cronies or facsimiles thereof of gman1971 ?

you can't buy parts for

. ??

Ask yourself, 'What do I know"?

You certainly have not hid your ignorance with a post like the above.


The ladies are going wild!!!

 

[gman1971]

I don't need another login to tell you in your face what I think of you, or as the other poster said, your piece of shit ZENN electric car (might as well buy a golf cart and put some plywood around it!), or any of your plywoodmobile eBikes you're so proud of. And BTW, the other poster is also damn right about that car, it can't be driven on the roads with posted speed limit above 30, nor driven on bike lanes/paths... which was the whole effing purpose of me building three trikes so I could go cross country with my family along the bike trails... but maybe you don't have a family to do that, whatever... you and your infinite wisdom; maybe you just need to measure the tangential load of that too... just whatever floats your boat or makes you sleep better at night.

And you've obviously not read this thread very well in the past, or simply you just didn't pay any attention to it, or perhaps you have the memory span of an ameba, or heck, even a selective memory problem, or Alzheimer's disease, maybe just malice, or you're just a little special man... whatever it is, it doesn't matter, flash news for you: I've posted full and detailed pictures of all my "productions" in the past, plus videos along with them.

And your so-fast 42 mph top end is my cruise speed going to work on less power you can imagine; oh, and contrary to your "jodidamente feas" pieces of plywood-shit, I am not ashamed of showcasing any my work, nor talking about it with other civilized people who don't threat with punching others like you did.

Once again you also make false claims of my top end being 52 mph... I don't know where you got that information from, but I could cruise at 50 mph on less power than you think, all day long if I wanted to, and still not burn a motor (done it in more than a few occasions); but again, I am far more worried about other things happening at 50 mph than just burning the gawdamn motor, which btw, I can replace from one of the six ones I have at home if I need to... maybe you just haven't figured it out how to do it without melting the motor, whatever, but it doesn't mean it can't be done; and obviously I am not going to entertain you by sharing how I did it here... b/c lets face it dude, if you are so smart, you'll figure it out.

And why the eff I would want to "produce a better story" about trading my trike for a piece of shit golf cart? First off, I don't need to trade my trike; so maybe b/c your ebikes were so crappy to begin with that the shitty ZENN was a worthy trade, whatever... otherwise I can't really think of any reason as to why on Earth would I want to trade my 60+ mph, 100+ mile range trike for such a piece of shit electric car (or a glorified golf cart for that matter), with a top speed such as that anyone riding a road bike w/o electric motor can blow by you, and a range that is measured in hundredths of a yard, and that is with a good tailwind... whatever man.

And FYI, I've now built 5 Cyclone eBikes and eTrikes... so does that mean that in your next bragging post your build count is going to go up from 4 to 6?

G.

 

[DingusMcGee]

gman1971,

I am glad to see you are rampant -- you probably will not post again for some time?

if you are so smart, you'll figure it out.

Now for audience:

. It was gman1971 that wrongly & vehemently tried to inform us that the OEM C-3000 controller would burn up using nominal 72v. Luna cycle now offers a 1 Yr warranty if you buy both the C-3000 kit and a 72v batt from them.

. It was gman1971 that boldly and unabashedly asserted, "the C-3000 motor is too powerful for the Cycle Analyst." The guy never read the ordinary sized print about how much amperage the stock CA shunt could measure.

He didn't figure these out using his smarts but began a personal attack on me for "putting him down" , when I challenged these assertions.

I will not bother you with any of the assertions he has made of the Zenn Car -- He rambles endlessly.

it's bikes not kidy trikes

 

[DingusMcGee]

The vintage Banana Seat can be converted/adapted to Full Suspension Ebikes and give the rider a similar seat sliding freedom that motorized dirt bikes have. If you still just ride your ebike like you do a mountain bike that is pedaled this seat change likely is not in your current needs.



I began with a new "vintage" banana seat which have mounts near the front for clamping to the seat to the seat tube and side holes in the rear for mounting the back portion to the sissy bar. See the mounts:



For an adult male this built in metal seat frame/stiffener will not hold up to bumpy loadings when the mounting locations mentioned above are the attachment points and there are no additional stiffeners. The seat frame, even though it has a corrugated metal under shell, bent on me when I tried the first contrived suspension mechanism for this using only those points. After some thought I decided to cut and fit an ordinary slender bike seat under the spanning metal of the banana seat using only the OEM attachment points. The seat would stiffen the open span and prevent bucking of the under shell when giving it bumping loadings. See the trimmed down seat sides. The modern bike seat also adds cushioning so you have more than the minor amount of cushioning the vintage seat offers.



The trimmed down seat was fitted into the metal shell of the banana seat so as the front nose of the modern bike seat fitted into the 2 front clamping fins of the banana seat and then the rear of the modern seat was pushed back to where it just touched the traverse bolt that spanned the 2 banana seat's side holes. It was decided the a gear clamp could connect the rear of the seat to the transverse bolt. The material of the bottom the modern seat is a very hard plastic but a red hot butter knife can be used to burn a slit through the plactic seat frame. A gear clamp that adjusts to totally flat alignment can be passed thru the slit and around the traverse bolt to hold the rear of the banana seat to the modern bike seat. 2 gear clamps installed along this traverse bolt may be better than one.



And here is an end view of the gear clamp attachment:



Next the seat tube is clamped onto the rails of the modern seat:




Here we see the finished banana seat mounted on the Specialized Big Hit:



And 4 you stealth folks the seat comes in Black. If you mount the banana seat with these attachments the seat is quite easy to change.

Note:

On the Big Hit here designed the banana seat tip can dip only to the top of the battery pack mounted on the top tube. If you do not have such a material stop for the front downward motion of the seat you may have to add some form of a stop as there can be quite a bit of leverage from the front tip of the banana seat to the attaching rails and when loading it with all of your weight on the seat tip you may deform the modern bike seat's rails where they are attached to seat tube's clamps.

Edit 12/20/2016

The above banana seat was 18 inches long. There are longer banana seats and they may work closer to the likes of a real enduro seat as you can get more sliding length. The longer seats sometime >22 inches cannot be mounted as simply as the above method. The longest skinny profile modern seat I could fine was 11 inches long which likely will not have enough nose length to reach the standard fins of the remade 22" vintage banana seat when fastened in the rear as shown.



As I am new to such adaptions I was curios what a 22 inch banana seat was like. There are not very many options on eBay for this length but I did find one called the Lowrider which seems pretty good. As it is 4" longer than the 18" seat, the above mounting method does not entirely work. For the longer banana seat fasten the rear first as shown above. For the front, fortunately, the banana seats have included a piece of hardware that makes the adaption quite simple. To the included silver seat post clamp add a piece of 3/4 " copper tubing of sufficient length to go past the seat nose and extend over the attachment rails a few inches. Fasten the seat rail end of the tubing to the 2 seat rails with a gear clamps. See photo below.



Having a 22 inch long seat on a short mtn bike poses some body positioning dilemmas. 1) Where are you going to sit on the banana seat for normal riding? and What angle is most suitable for the terrain you ride? If you want the seat quite far forward you can even rotate the seat stem 1/2 turn -- for some stems this rotation will not allow seat attachment this way. I do not know much about these finishing adjustments yet.

But using the above simple ad hoc method of seat attachment without deliberation as to making a cutie bike seat attachment, here it is with an Allen bolt seat clamp as the toggle kind of clamps cannot be tighten easily enough to counter the extra nose leverage that makes for easy off angle turning of the banana seat.

 

[robocam]

So I took a break from this thread for about 5 weeks, and now I see this. Hilarious guys. It's nice to see you back G. BTW, I just got a BBSHD! Bahahaha. I'm putting it on a 150mm travel Fuji Thrill LT 2.0 with a 180mm Fox fork. I decided to build this up to see what the fuss is about 26ers being more fun than 29ers. And I wanted to see if the BBSHD was really super quiet.

I also got a Specialized Enduro 29er frame, and I'm not sure what motor I want to use yet. Something tells me I'm going to have trouble getting the BBSHD to fit around that huge carbon PF30 bottom bracket with an ISCG mount, so I might get another Cyclone 3000. Not sure yet. I considered the Mini but I don't want to deal with how loud it is. I wonder if the Cyclone will fit inside the triangle. I'll have to try.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Gman1971,

nibble on this you bragging fool:

Busted


Experimental Motor tests on c-3000 from Chupa:

if you will add 6.5kw [put 6.5 kw to the C-3000] , the EFF will be approx 55%. It means that about 3 kilowatts will go to heat.

We know you don't get near what you say. Yes, 45% efficiency?

Well, it turns out these inverse linear motors for torque vs. rpm at peak power are always about 50% efficient. This can be shown by differentiating the load power with respect to the load resistance and setting that result to zero when expressing powerout as a function of the load resistance in the Thevenin's Equivalent Circuit for Power Transfer. Most likely your 6 kw blowjob is producing about 3kw of heat -- Great! I suppose that much overheat cannot heat you when you are cold? So now 3kwh of batteries for heat?

Of course you can get rid of this waste heat with a blower or dry ice. And likely there are several other ways that come to mind.

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

I just got a BBSHD! Bahahaha. I'm putting it on a 150mm travel Fuji Thrill LT 2.0 with a 180mm Fox fork. I decided to build this up to see what the fuss is about 26ers being more fun than 29ers. And I wanted to see if the BBSHD was really super quiet.

I'll be really interested to hear your comparison to the C3000, particularly in regards to sound.

If the stock 1500 watts is too mild, then bump it up to 72 volts with an external controller!