tomjasz
1 GW
FFS. But a frocking proper battery. You’ve pissed away more than the cost of a decent battery.
new eZip motor
- Thread starter latecurtis
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latecurtis
100 MW
Well. You can not buy a better battery than LTO. LTO is the best to date.
30,000 charge cycles and 100% safe to run and charge.
The 36V - 12S - LIFE pack is light duty. Bafang motors with 17 amp controllers and cheap 26 amp brush controller on the Currie.
Perfect for short trips and medium range when I get the 10 amp charger.
The two 10S - LTOs will top 50V in series for 20S. And there is no solder. Just 10 gauge wire and copper ring connecters. Dual active balancers. That will run all my 48V controllers.
I am thinking about selling the 3 kilowatt motor and controller though. I met a guy today with a gas go cart and he wants to convert to electric. He wants my LTOs but I am not selling them. He dont want to build them anyway.
I know the 13S - 20 Ah pack I have been running wont power the 3 kilowatt motor. He wants 72V as I told him the controller will go that high but the motor is only 60V.
I am thinking about throwing in the power modules simply because with 50+ volts of LTO I wont need them but could use the $200. I might have to move next month.
They do not even have it in stock so if the guy wants it the price is $200. Not a penny less. I just do not want any more chain drives. Sick of them. I would rather have a MAC or QS motor. Something like that.
Basically the LTOs will power any motor I hook up to them.
Yea. I am finally getting standards.
LIFEPO4 and LTOs and no more chain drives. I have been listening. The guy has a little spot welder for 50 bucks. It runs off of AC. He never used it for batteries though.
He also has a 1,000W 48V hub motor. I might trade him the hub motor and spot welder for the 3,000W brushless motor and controller but he has to give me at least 50 bucks for the power modules and my $30 bucks back for the sound bar I bought because it don't work. That is why I went there.
The guy is into computers. He wants to buy my Ryzen 7 - 1800X also. He moved here from Elmira NY so is new to Ohio. He seems ok but the sound bar is junk. My wife is hard of hearing and we got an old 50" Plasma TV. No control over dynamic range and the dialogue is terrible. Cant hear a word they say unless you turn up the volume and then when the dramatic music kicks in and there is a gunshot or explosion or car crash in an action scene it will wake the dead. It is ridiculous.
There are expensive sound bars that control dynamic range and enhance vocal but they are not cheap. I was just looking for the cheapest way out and the TV don't even have a 3.5 mm jack. Just RCA analog outputs. The TV speakers are digital though but no sound settings for voice or dialogue. If I could find a cheap 5.1 receiver that could control all the speakers I could turn up the center channel as that is usually dialogue.
I got rid of all my stereo equipment though a long time ago. I never had 5.1 channel though. Just high RMS output stereos old school like Kenwood . Marantz and realistic. My Kenwood was 1979 and 250 RMS per channel.
Anyway if I do make a deal with the guy I would like to introduce the guy to this forum and this post. He has been having someone else help him with e bikes and he don't know how to build batteries so he might be able to use a little help mounting and hooking up the power modules if I do make a deal with him.
Please let me know. He has a gas go cart now he wants to convert. It should be perfect for what he needs and I never even hooked the 3 kilowatt controller or motor up and DA said a BMS and balancer is not required for the power modules.
The guy has a real good heat station with solder in his basement he said so he does know how to solder and spot weld. He just never did batteries. Maybe he could start. The spot welder he has looks perfect for 26650 cells but I am not ordering any more. The ones I got work good enough and am moving on to 20S - LTO.
Thanks.
LC. out.
DrkAngel
1 GW
Problems with an active balancer:
#1 hides problems (until severe failure)
#2 makes problem worse (equalizes weak bank at "empty" causing weak bank to hit possibly dangerous high voltage with normal charge, at minimum, rapid further deterioration} & (weak bank discharges faster and deeper for more heat and more rapid deterioration)
#3 drains all good cells to feed weak bank
#4 Hides self discharging cell(s) by cannibalizing healthy banks until self-discharging cell fully shorts
#5 not needed for good battery! Does nothing!
#1 hides problems (until severe failure)
#2 makes problem worse (equalizes weak bank at "empty" causing weak bank to hit possibly dangerous high voltage with normal charge, at minimum, rapid further deterioration} & (weak bank discharges faster and deeper for more heat and more rapid deterioration)
#3 drains all good cells to feed weak bank
#4 Hides self discharging cell(s) by cannibalizing healthy banks until self-discharging cell fully shorts
#5 not needed for good battery! Does nothing!
latecurtis
100 MW
Well they are for brand new LTOs. I wont be hiding a weak cell as there are no weak cells. I can check the cells with a multimeter and if none need balance then I wont. Active balancer is plug and play. I just unplug it if I don't need it. Like an external balancer on steroids'. Don't have to wait all day to balance a pack. I hope
If this guy saw my FX motor he would want it. He must just work on computers and TVs then. He has a business as I found him under computer repair as my laptop needs a hard drive and thought he might have a sound bar.
He has some expensive heat station with fancy iron in the basement he said. I did not see it. He showed me a spot welder. I know how to solder now. He said he never soldered or built packs. He should if he wants a 72V battery. I got all those 18650 cells. I'm trying to move those.
The guy seems battery illiterate. He has a family and house and told him straight out I would charge and store Lion in a spot where a fire could not happen. Store outside or concrete floor in a basement or garage. I am not selling or trading Lion without telling someone the truth. There is always a chance they can fail catastrophically.
Not LIFE or LTO. SLA either but why ????? no longevity AND heavy/bulky.
Arguments over weather or not my solder ball was at wetting temperature is absurd. The entire argument is a big joke. I know I am right as the Weller is the best soldering iron. If it heats up solder to wetting temperature than pre tinning the cell is redundant.
The frocking cells were scratched with a drywall screw. Then a small wire brush on an electric drill. Then Q tips with alcohol. Then dry time. As long as the Weller reaches wetting temperature , those solder joints are NOT cold solder. Don't care about dropping balls. That was just measuring amount of solder for joints. Not the actual solder.
That YouTube video of the guy. He tinned the cell. Then the wire and soldered the wire to the cell. He did not drop solder balls. I get it. I will copy that guy until I get it right. If I got to add a little more solder ; It is ok as long as I tin that cell first. I will still use less solder adding a little extra if need be than dropping a ball.
I can do it the way EVERYONE thinks is right next time and I will. Maybe it will be a little better as everyone agrees on that method. (tinning the cell first).
But I will never admit to soldering a cold solder joint with the Weller as I do not believe that is even possible due to the temperature of the Weller and my thorough surface preparation. I cant say that with the pack I did with the 60W iron before. I just know the cells got a lot hotter for a longer time period.
I just need to get in the mood. I need the 60/40 though. I never got it. I looked back at my e mail and was out of stock or they did not ship to PO. box. One or the other as I ordered it.
The idiot who sold me the non functional sound bar will never get anything from me. frock him. I am drunk and sleeping the entire day. frock the world. I have a bad attitude. I know I am mentally ill and really dont give a flying frock.
Thanks.
LC. out.
latecurtis
100 MW
As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Well I am alive. I drank a lot of beer. On my first cup of Java. 
That guy is getting nothing more from me. Bad enough he robbed me for $30. The sound bar is a Samsung but the power adapter is ONN brand.
The power plug was taped which was suspect and I had to remove it and the wires were not even attached. He claims to be a hot shot welder and solder master. More like some kind of a retard. Not mentally challenged a frocking retard.
I soldered the wires the best I could and tested voltage and the ONN adapter was only putting out 19.4V. The input where the plug plugs in says 24V. That could be the problem. I opened the unit and did not see a fuse. frock that guy. I am keeping my shit and not buying or trading any of his junk.
Probably taking the 20" Turbo to Wall-Mart as the 13S - 20Ah pack is charged to 4.2V per cell. I looked at the list of the reasons why DA. said he don't like an active balancer and I did learn one thing. I wont be treating it like a BMS. Instead I will treat it like an external balancer like the three I have. In fact the only reason why I ordered the active balancers is the biggest external balancer I saw is the 7S I have, I might have seen an 8S but nothing larger.
I also learned from Markz about charging a low single cell bank which I can do with my 6S chargers but not for LTOs. I only ordered the active balancers for LTOs. Not for LIFE or Lion. I can just use a stick of wood with nuts and bolts for terminals like I did with the 6S - LIFE packs. I will need two 13S balance plugs with long wires and extensions for any 13S Lion pack. 10S for any 10S pack.
An external stick like what I did is better than trying to incorporate that into the battery box as that would make the box larger. So the 10S and 13S balance extension plug will hook to the stick with the nuts and bolts. If only one or two low cells I can deal with manual balancing by charging the low cells. If more than two cell banks are low I hook up an active balancer and unhook it as soon as it is balanced. Then I check each cell bank and if they drop low again then I know there is a real problem. NO hidden problems or unpleasant surprises.
Yes I am learning. An old dog CAN learn new tricks. :lol:
I read what DA. said about active balancers and almost every thing on that list also applies to a BMS. Unless it is a Bluetooth BMS.
The fact my newer 10S Laudation and hoverboard packs that failed miserably proves that BMSs can also be garbage as well. frocking useless !!!!
The best thing for a large pack is the Bluetooth BMS - AND an active balancer which is UNHOOKED 99% of the time and only used when necessary. Then all those negative aspects of the active balancer do not apply.
As far as solder I said I will start tinning the cells. I want to do a video where the majority of members here agree that I am doing it correctly. Not the other way around like it has been. Also if everyone agrees on that there must be some truth to it. I am not saying my way will NOT work because every time I run my LIFE packs it proves I am right. I am just saying that the proven mainstream method could be a little better and could save me some solder.
Thanks.
LC. out.
That guy is getting nothing more from me. Bad enough he robbed me for $30. The sound bar is a Samsung but the power adapter is ONN brand.
The power plug was taped which was suspect and I had to remove it and the wires were not even attached. He claims to be a hot shot welder and solder master. More like some kind of a retard. Not mentally challenged a frocking retard.
I soldered the wires the best I could and tested voltage and the ONN adapter was only putting out 19.4V. The input where the plug plugs in says 24V. That could be the problem. I opened the unit and did not see a fuse. frock that guy. I am keeping my shit and not buying or trading any of his junk.
Probably taking the 20" Turbo to Wall-Mart as the 13S - 20Ah pack is charged to 4.2V per cell. I looked at the list of the reasons why DA. said he don't like an active balancer and I did learn one thing. I wont be treating it like a BMS. Instead I will treat it like an external balancer like the three I have. In fact the only reason why I ordered the active balancers is the biggest external balancer I saw is the 7S I have, I might have seen an 8S but nothing larger.
I also learned from Markz about charging a low single cell bank which I can do with my 6S chargers but not for LTOs. I only ordered the active balancers for LTOs. Not for LIFE or Lion. I can just use a stick of wood with nuts and bolts for terminals like I did with the 6S - LIFE packs. I will need two 13S balance plugs with long wires and extensions for any 13S Lion pack. 10S for any 10S pack.
An external stick like what I did is better than trying to incorporate that into the battery box as that would make the box larger. So the 10S and 13S balance extension plug will hook to the stick with the nuts and bolts. If only one or two low cells I can deal with manual balancing by charging the low cells. If more than two cell banks are low I hook up an active balancer and unhook it as soon as it is balanced. Then I check each cell bank and if they drop low again then I know there is a real problem. NO hidden problems or unpleasant surprises.
Yes I am learning. An old dog CAN learn new tricks. :lol:
I read what DA. said about active balancers and almost every thing on that list also applies to a BMS. Unless it is a Bluetooth BMS.
The fact my newer 10S Laudation and hoverboard packs that failed miserably proves that BMSs can also be garbage as well. frocking useless !!!!
The best thing for a large pack is the Bluetooth BMS - AND an active balancer which is UNHOOKED 99% of the time and only used when necessary. Then all those negative aspects of the active balancer do not apply.
As far as solder I said I will start tinning the cells. I want to do a video where the majority of members here agree that I am doing it correctly. Not the other way around like it has been. Also if everyone agrees on that there must be some truth to it. I am not saying my way will NOT work because every time I run my LIFE packs it proves I am right. I am just saying that the proven mainstream method could be a little better and could save me some solder.
Thanks.
LC. out.
markz
100 TW
How long do you figure its going to balance your pack if you bulk charge to within 0.5-1.0V of V(max)?
Typically speaking of course, if a slight out of balance were to occur of say 0.30V out of balance on just one or two, and you have some weak balancer that can only hack 0.20A, you may be balancing that thing for a full day if not a lot longer depending on how out of balance it is.
https://youtu.be/5P3f77TVjhY?t=158
Now, you measure voltages through the balance wires and you find one or two low, say 0.50V low then you could just charge the two, one at a time at a rate of 2A directly through the balance wires. This is what I showed you in a previous post of icecube57 doing it.
Start adding to your pile of ebike stuff........
https://www.amainhobbies.com/junsi-icharger-x6-lilo-lipo-life-nimh-nicd-dc-battery-charger-6s-30a-800w-jun-x6amn/p-qqqvq2uqhb2zqctz
$110 - iCharger X6 800W
Typically speaking of course, if a slight out of balance were to occur of say 0.30V out of balance on just one or two, and you have some weak balancer that can only hack 0.20A, you may be balancing that thing for a full day if not a lot longer depending on how out of balance it is.
https://youtu.be/5P3f77TVjhY?t=158
Now, you measure voltages through the balance wires and you find one or two low, say 0.50V low then you could just charge the two, one at a time at a rate of 2A directly through the balance wires. This is what I showed you in a previous post of icecube57 doing it.
Start adding to your pile of ebike stuff........
https://www.amainhobbies.com/junsi-icharger-x6-lilo-lipo-life-nimh-nicd-dc-battery-charger-6s-30a-800w-jun-x6amn/p-qqqvq2uqhb2zqctz
$110 - iCharger X6 800W
latecurtis
100 MW
Great charger if it was - 54.6V. I am building two 10S - LTO packs.
Looking for 54.6V ?? 15 or 20 amp charger. Or what 20S - LTO charging voltage is ????
I ordered a good 43.8V 10 amp charger for series charging LIFE at 12S.
Not sure about LTO. 15 amps minimum.
2.5 * 20 = 50 so 54.6 is my guess.
I need a good LTO charger.
That does 6S - LIFE
I am needing 10S and 13S balance plugs and extensions.
A 13S can do the power modules and 13S - Lion.
A 10S one can NOT do LTO. Cant 1S charge ???
However can charge LTO at 20S and use the active balancers if/when needed.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Attachments
latecurtis
100 MW
The 6S balance charger don't do much better. When I was charging the 6S - LIFE packs a couple weeks ago I noticed two cells at like 3.7 or 3.8V and the other four like 3,4 or 3.43. Then after about 3 or 4 hours they were all like 3.59 to 3.60V.
Any type of balance charge should stop charging at maximum set voltage like 3.6V for Lion and continue charging any low cells until they reach set voltage. NOT over charge two cells then bleed them down. It is just WRONG !!!
The fancy 5 in 1 balancer does the same thing. It takes away from the cells that are high but that is because it needs that power to balance. There is no excuse for a balance charger to do that though.
An active balancer SHOULD work when charging and go from low to high instead from high to low. I guess whoever designs the circuits in balancers and chargers is a complete retard as it is ass backwards.
That is another reason why the few times I did balance charge 6S Lion I charge on LILO mode 4.1V per cell otherwise it will charge one or 2 cells past 4.2V and bleed them down which is insane for lithium ion technology as could cause thermal runaway. For LIFE it wont hurt them and is NOT dangerous as there is no such thing as thermal runaway. Same with LTOs.
It is just another reason why I am trying to get rid of lithium ion technology all together.
9/20/21 - 10:53 PM.
Yea.
I started the first LTO box tonight. The dimensions are 12" long by 6" high and 6" wide. I used wood glue to glue the top and bottom to one side. The side is on the bottom in the picture and the other side is the top which I wont be gluing.
It will be a little larger when it is done. (paint illustration below)
Yea.
I need more 1/4" plywood. I used 3/8" for top and bottom but 1/4" is needed where I drill the holes. It will be strong and not using screws. Just wood glue. I need a 10S balance plug for the active balancers and for a stick with nuts and bolts for terminals so I can check each cell voltage. I am only using the active balancers when I need to. All cells are brand new. Never used. I ordered them from Battery Hookup.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Attachments
latecurtis
100 MW
Yea.
I had to go to Wall-Mart and get a hole saw kit. Too late to drill now as 11:49 PM.
Tomorrow when I wake up I can start. I might measure the center of the holes though.
I took the 20" Turbo with the 13S - 20Ah pack as I charged it to 4.2V two days ago and got a ride to the cannabis store yesterday so I needed to run the pack as is going to rain tomorrow.
The pack is at 3.99V per cell which is a lot better than sitting around at 4.2V. I plan of storing the pack at around 3.8V so will need to run it for one more short trip.
The first motor to get 50+ volts of LTO will be the 1,800W brushless motor. I will be putting one 10S LTO pack on the top bar of the frame and the second in a reinforced front basket. It should hit 35 mph.
I think the spoke sprocket is a 56 tooth but not 100% sure. I think I used the 60 tooth for the Clear creek Schwinn with the 800W chain drive on the back I built for my wife's son John. I will find out for sure when I change the flat tire.
The 1,500W brushless controller is rated at 36 - 48V and 38 amps so 2.6V * 20 = 52V. so 52 * 38A = 1,976 watts.
53 / 20 = 2.65V so if standing voltage is 2.65V for LTO then it will pull 53 * 38 = 2.014W.
I am NOT sure what standing voltage is for LTO after a full charge. However I doubt there will be any SAG but then I did not think LIFE would SAG as much as it does so I could be wrong.
So basically looking at somewhere between 35 and 38 mph.
I am looking at ordering a 15 amp 54.6V charger. I know I could charge a lot higher than that but am taking into consideration the fact I could trip a circuit breaker here when I charge at home and the box is down in the basement. I have to bother the downstairs neighbor just to get to it.
53.4V * 15 = 819 watts so basically a one hour charge will get me about 20 miles as 10 mph = < 400W. That is really good for long trips away from home. A 20 amp charger or higher will cost about twice as much and may be too large and bulky for portable charging on the go.
Thanks.
LC. out.
I had to go to Wall-Mart and get a hole saw kit. Too late to drill now as 11:49 PM.
Tomorrow when I wake up I can start. I might measure the center of the holes though.
I took the 20" Turbo with the 13S - 20Ah pack as I charged it to 4.2V two days ago and got a ride to the cannabis store yesterday so I needed to run the pack as is going to rain tomorrow.
The pack is at 3.99V per cell which is a lot better than sitting around at 4.2V. I plan of storing the pack at around 3.8V so will need to run it for one more short trip.
The first motor to get 50+ volts of LTO will be the 1,800W brushless motor. I will be putting one 10S LTO pack on the top bar of the frame and the second in a reinforced front basket. It should hit 35 mph.
I think the spoke sprocket is a 56 tooth but not 100% sure. I think I used the 60 tooth for the Clear creek Schwinn with the 800W chain drive on the back I built for my wife's son John. I will find out for sure when I change the flat tire.
The 1,500W brushless controller is rated at 36 - 48V and 38 amps so 2.6V * 20 = 52V. so 52 * 38A = 1,976 watts.
53 / 20 = 2.65V so if standing voltage is 2.65V for LTO then it will pull 53 * 38 = 2.014W.
I am NOT sure what standing voltage is for LTO after a full charge. However I doubt there will be any SAG but then I did not think LIFE would SAG as much as it does so I could be wrong.
So basically looking at somewhere between 35 and 38 mph.
I am looking at ordering a 15 amp 54.6V charger. I know I could charge a lot higher than that but am taking into consideration the fact I could trip a circuit breaker here when I charge at home and the box is down in the basement. I have to bother the downstairs neighbor just to get to it.
53.4V * 15 = 819 watts so basically a one hour charge will get me about 20 miles as 10 mph = < 400W. That is really good for long trips away from home. A 20 amp charger or higher will cost about twice as much and may be too large and bulky for portable charging on the go.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Attachments
markz
100 TW
That is going to be one
big & heavy & bulky
battery
Its like a 454 Chevy motor running on 2 cylinders in a tiny Toyota Matrix
.....and you want to go how fast?
big & heavy & bulky
battery
Its like a 454 Chevy motor running on 2 cylinders in a tiny Toyota Matrix
.....and you want to go how fast?
latecurtis
100 MW
Very close to the weight of the SLAS on my first E bike. First 50 pages I think on this post.
I found a charger. Best I can do as the only 15 amp chargers I found were $300 and up.
I am not using any 50+ volt charger just because it is more amps. I bought a proper LIFEPO4 charger so will do the same for LTO. That way they get charged to 100% Not 95 or 96%
They will be as compact as possible and still sturdy.. A little space for air flow : no shorts cells touching.
Still in development stage.
Thanks.
LC. out.
I found a charger. Best I can do as the only 15 amp chargers I found were $300 and up.
I am not using any 50+ volt charger just because it is more amps. I bought a proper LIFEPO4 charger so will do the same for LTO. That way they get charged to 100% Not 95 or 96%
They will be as compact as possible and still sturdy.. A little space for air flow : no shorts cells touching.
Still in development stage.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Attachments
markz
100 TW
I found some interesting posts but lost the ones I had in some tabs on my browser.
Doing a quick search function
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60169&p=1195786&hilit=dod#p1195786
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=75527&p=1142875&hilit=dod#p1142875
For how long? Its been quite the slog
Doing a quick search function
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60169&p=1195786&hilit=dod#p1195786
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=75527&p=1142875&hilit=dod#p1142875
For how long? Its been quite the slog
latecurtis said:
DrkAngel
1 GW
... which only draws ~8A, so ... ?latecurtis said:
latecurtis
100 MW
It is not all about that.
I searched a lot and 15 and 20 amp chargers are two to four times as expensive and most not true LTO chargers.
I am going with the 10 amp for LTO.
Thanks.
LC. out.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001604102974.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.6.64b9baacuCRoE0
Yea.
I lost the link to that 10 amp charger I posted.
900W is ok I guess.
I do not really need it for at home. I can look for a proper 56V charger that is under $30 - 5 amps or less for charging to 100%
I need the extra charging power when I need to make it home if I were to take a long trip. 900W / 15 amps going into the LTOs for an hour will get me a lot more miles than 10 amps 500 watts.
Well My 10 amp LIFEPO4 charger still is not here. It is supposed to be delivered to the post office by 9 PM. The post office closes at 5 PM so wont see it until Monday when they open.
I have been waiting almost two weeks I think. I also have been searching about two to three hours a day for 20S - LTO chargers that are actually for LTO and not LIFE or Lithium. I only found that one 10 amp I posted the picture of but forgot the link.
I am sick and tired of searching. I will order the 15 amp 54.6V tonight but really want a genuine 56V - LTO charger that can charge at 2.8V and do a 100% charge. It will be for charging at home and only needs to be 1 to 5 amps.
The only other charger that can charge 20S - LTO is my 13S - 54.6V charger that I charge my 13S - 20 Ah lion pack I got from e bay about a year ago or 18 months. It has a special plug for the 20 Ah pack. It will not be compatible with the LTOs and really do not want to cut the plug off to charge LTO when I am getting a 15 amp charger in a week or two hopefully anyway.
I need a proper 56V charger for LTO but can not find one. If anyone knows where there is one please let me know. Looking at < $30 if possible. It just needs to be exactly 56V for 20S LTO. NOT 54,6 or 58.4V or whatever. It needs to be a PROPER 56V - 20S LTO charger if one actually exists.
The 15 amp is just for quick charging out on the go. I can use it at home for 95 to 96% stand by but the night before or two or three hours before I leave for a trip I can plug it in to 56V for a 100% charge. It only needs to be 2 to 5 amps for that.
Please let me know.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Yea.
I just ordered the 15 amp 54.6V LTO charger. Probably wont be here for three weeks or a month but will have the 43V LIFEPO4 charger Monday.
I will be working on building the packs and the bikes I will be running them on. I will be installing front and rear racks on some and racks for frame mounting as well. I need a way to secure the LTOs from theft. They are $600. I cant have them stolen.
I would like to put the 750W gear reduction motor on the front of the 26" dual suspension and take off the front Bafang. Then run both the 26- 48V rear hub and the 36V 480 rpm gear motor at 53V and 600 rpm. I can mount one 10S LTO on the frame and the second on the rear rack.
I think I will rewire the Currie but keep the motors. Instead of running a single throttle for two motors I will remove the wimpy 26 amp controller from the rear 36V - 1,000W motor and throw it in the trash. Then hook up one of those.
That will also tell me if the LIFEPO4s are ever going to put out any decent power as those controllers are 40 amps and 2 kilowatts. I think those controllers are what I used when I went 28 and 29 mph back in NY. There is no LVC either so wont get stranded 3 miles from home again with the LIFEPO4s.
I will keep the two DC breakers , but the throttle will be for the front Bafang only and will switch off the Bafang when using the rear chain drive. The Bafang is no good up hills anyway. Well I could see if the Bafang could help on a steeper hill where the 1,000W motor slows.
The brush controller has a knob for a throttle. I could use the thumb throttle too if it would help. But can control the Bafang as to not damage it as seperate throttle not shared. . Just a better set up. they still sell those 2,000W brush controllers. Like $10. I might have a third. Not sure. I remember ordering 4 or 5 and think two were bad.
9/26/21
Progress is being made but is a slow process as I am a lazy alcoholic. I slept the entire day. I did not roll out of bed until around 8PM but did get two panels cut. I will need another piece of wood to finish the boxes. Since they are very heavy I will need L brackets which will go outside for each corner and the right size screws which I need to get. The wood glue is to hold it together until I reinforce it.
I am still not sure what I will be using for the series connections. I also need 10S balance plugs for each 10S pack. The active balancers are still at the shipping stage. I do not plan on using the active balancers when running or charging. I will be hooking them up only when I need to balance. I do not know if the active balancers are Bluetooth either.
They will always charge in series with the 15 amp - 54.6V charger I ordered. If the active balancers are NOT Bluetooth then will hook up a piece of wood with bolts for terminals and a male 10S balance plug to plug into so I can test each of the cells to see if I need to balance.
Yea. I am far from being finished with these LTO packs. Also each bike I will be hooking them to will need a lot of work,
Even weight distribution will be needed and they will weigh around 20 pounds each. Each bike I mount these on already has a heavy rear motor either hub or chain drive somewhere between 10 and 15 pounds.
If I mount one 20 pound 10S pack on the top bar of the frame for the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. The second pack I can mount on a front steel rack. I think I have one so wont need to order it. In the case of the 26" dual suspension I will be installing the 36V - 750W gear reduction motor and running it at 54V - 20S LTOs with the rear 1,000W - 48V hub chain drive in the front. Mounting one 20 pound pack on the top bar of the frame and the second on a rear steel rack.
I will only be using the LTOs for the 26" dual suspension , The 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor and the Haro V3 with the 3 kilowatt motor when I build it. The Currie and the 26" bike with the dual Bafang motors will run the LIFEPO4s at 42V.
The little 20" Turbo will run the 13S - 20 Ah Lion pack as long as it will last and will replace it with a 13S - 7P pack I will build from my best 18650 cells. I have the ammo box for that.
I think that the one 10S - LTO pack might fit perfect inside of that.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-Tough-15-inch-Large-Mouth-Fabric-Tool-Bag/181309856?athcpid=181309856&athpgid=AthenaItempage&athcgid=null&athznid=si&athieid=v0&athstid=CS004&athguid=sOEPlof3vSfPO3vwPM8GuhqZt3f224AM3E2G&athancid=null&athena=true
I saw them at Wall Mart.
Yea. I will need two of those. That is awesome as I wont even have to paint the wood boxes. I can just add screws and small L brackets for strength and durability.
Thanks.
LC. out.
I searched a lot and 15 and 20 amp chargers are two to four times as expensive and most not true LTO chargers.
I am going with the 10 amp for LTO.
Thanks.
LC. out.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001604102974.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.6.64b9baacuCRoE0
Yea.
I lost the link to that 10 amp charger I posted.
900W is ok I guess.
I do not really need it for at home. I can look for a proper 56V charger that is under $30 - 5 amps or less for charging to 100%
I need the extra charging power when I need to make it home if I were to take a long trip. 900W / 15 amps going into the LTOs for an hour will get me a lot more miles than 10 amps 500 watts.
Well My 10 amp LIFEPO4 charger still is not here. It is supposed to be delivered to the post office by 9 PM. The post office closes at 5 PM so wont see it until Monday when they open.
I have been waiting almost two weeks I think. I also have been searching about two to three hours a day for 20S - LTO chargers that are actually for LTO and not LIFE or Lithium. I only found that one 10 amp I posted the picture of but forgot the link.
I am sick and tired of searching. I will order the 15 amp 54.6V tonight but really want a genuine 56V - LTO charger that can charge at 2.8V and do a 100% charge. It will be for charging at home and only needs to be 1 to 5 amps.
The only other charger that can charge 20S - LTO is my 13S - 54.6V charger that I charge my 13S - 20 Ah lion pack I got from e bay about a year ago or 18 months. It has a special plug for the 20 Ah pack. It will not be compatible with the LTOs and really do not want to cut the plug off to charge LTO when I am getting a 15 amp charger in a week or two hopefully anyway.
I need a proper 56V charger for LTO but can not find one. If anyone knows where there is one please let me know. Looking at < $30 if possible. It just needs to be exactly 56V for 20S LTO. NOT 54,6 or 58.4V or whatever. It needs to be a PROPER 56V - 20S LTO charger if one actually exists.
The 15 amp is just for quick charging out on the go. I can use it at home for 95 to 96% stand by but the night before or two or three hours before I leave for a trip I can plug it in to 56V for a 100% charge. It only needs to be 2 to 5 amps for that.
Please let me know.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Yea.
I just ordered the 15 amp 54.6V LTO charger. Probably wont be here for three weeks or a month but will have the 43V LIFEPO4 charger Monday.
I will be working on building the packs and the bikes I will be running them on. I will be installing front and rear racks on some and racks for frame mounting as well. I need a way to secure the LTOs from theft. They are $600. I cant have them stolen.
I would like to put the 750W gear reduction motor on the front of the 26" dual suspension and take off the front Bafang. Then run both the 26- 48V rear hub and the 36V 480 rpm gear motor at 53V and 600 rpm. I can mount one 10S LTO on the frame and the second on the rear rack.
I think I will rewire the Currie but keep the motors. Instead of running a single throttle for two motors I will remove the wimpy 26 amp controller from the rear 36V - 1,000W motor and throw it in the trash. Then hook up one of those.
That will also tell me if the LIFEPO4s are ever going to put out any decent power as those controllers are 40 amps and 2 kilowatts. I think those controllers are what I used when I went 28 and 29 mph back in NY. There is no LVC either so wont get stranded 3 miles from home again with the LIFEPO4s.
I will keep the two DC breakers , but the throttle will be for the front Bafang only and will switch off the Bafang when using the rear chain drive. The Bafang is no good up hills anyway. Well I could see if the Bafang could help on a steeper hill where the 1,000W motor slows.
The brush controller has a knob for a throttle. I could use the thumb throttle too if it would help. But can control the Bafang as to not damage it as seperate throttle not shared. . Just a better set up. they still sell those 2,000W brush controllers. Like $10. I might have a third. Not sure. I remember ordering 4 or 5 and think two were bad.
9/26/21
Progress is being made but is a slow process as I am a lazy alcoholic. I slept the entire day. I did not roll out of bed until around 8PM but did get two panels cut. I will need another piece of wood to finish the boxes. Since they are very heavy I will need L brackets which will go outside for each corner and the right size screws which I need to get. The wood glue is to hold it together until I reinforce it.
I am still not sure what I will be using for the series connections. I also need 10S balance plugs for each 10S pack. The active balancers are still at the shipping stage. I do not plan on using the active balancers when running or charging. I will be hooking them up only when I need to balance. I do not know if the active balancers are Bluetooth either.
They will always charge in series with the 15 amp - 54.6V charger I ordered. If the active balancers are NOT Bluetooth then will hook up a piece of wood with bolts for terminals and a male 10S balance plug to plug into so I can test each of the cells to see if I need to balance.
Yea. I am far from being finished with these LTO packs. Also each bike I will be hooking them to will need a lot of work,
Even weight distribution will be needed and they will weigh around 20 pounds each. Each bike I mount these on already has a heavy rear motor either hub or chain drive somewhere between 10 and 15 pounds.
If I mount one 20 pound 10S pack on the top bar of the frame for the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. The second pack I can mount on a front steel rack. I think I have one so wont need to order it. In the case of the 26" dual suspension I will be installing the 36V - 750W gear reduction motor and running it at 54V - 20S LTOs with the rear 1,000W - 48V hub chain drive in the front. Mounting one 20 pound pack on the top bar of the frame and the second on a rear steel rack.
I will only be using the LTOs for the 26" dual suspension , The 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor and the Haro V3 with the 3 kilowatt motor when I build it. The Currie and the 26" bike with the dual Bafang motors will run the LIFEPO4s at 42V.
The little 20" Turbo will run the 13S - 20 Ah Lion pack as long as it will last and will replace it with a 13S - 7P pack I will build from my best 18650 cells. I have the ammo box for that.
I think that the one 10S - LTO pack might fit perfect inside of that.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-Tough-15-inch-Large-Mouth-Fabric-Tool-Bag/181309856?athcpid=181309856&athpgid=AthenaItempage&athcgid=null&athznid=si&athieid=v0&athstid=CS004&athguid=sOEPlof3vSfPO3vwPM8GuhqZt3f224AM3E2G&athancid=null&athena=true
I saw them at Wall Mart.
Yea. I will need two of those. That is awesome as I wont even have to paint the wood boxes. I can just add screws and small L brackets for strength and durability.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Attachments
latecurtis
100 MW
Yea. I am not happy with that. I do not see a Bluetooth.
I really did not want a BMS as would need two as the 10S packs will be physically separated.
What I really wanted does not exist as far as I know and that is a 10S meter / balancer like the 5 in 1 - 7S and the two 6S external balancers I own.
It looks like I have no choice but to use a piece of wood with nuts and bolts if I can not find a 10S meter or Bluetooth BMS. I do not want to pay for two - 80 amp Bluetooth BMSs. It is NOT happening.
If anyone knows of a 10S meter and 10S balance plug male and female connecters with wires. Pleeeease let me know.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Chalo
100 TW
latecurtis said:
I use something similar to that on a 13S pack, and it's been effective for a few years.
latecurtis
100 MW
Thanks for posting.
Good to hear from you.
Yea.
Do you have it hooked up all the time for run and charge or just when your packs need balancing ????????? I planned on using the active balancers at home like external balancers and not while I am running the packs.
DA said that active balancers can do more harm than good but that could be for old 18650 packs. Not brand new LTOs.
I just like the blue tooth app. I think it would be really cool to have that phone app. onboard like my GPS app. when it works and GPS speedometer.
I just wish they made a 10S cell meter. Even if it don't balance I could check my cells without having to hook up a piece of wood with nuts and bolts to a 10S male balance plug.
I guess if I get that tool bag I will not need to cover the terminals and just use a multi meter to check the cells. A meter or Blue tooth device would be much better though.
A simple blue tooth transmitter glued to the end of the wood box wired to the cells and a digital dashboard display would be awesome. I am not spending hundreds on two BMSs that will go in series. That much I know.
If such a Bluetooth device exists that is under $50 which is NOT a BMS or balancer , or a 10S meter , please post a link.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Chalo
100 TW
latecurtis said:
I leave it hooked up permanently.
markz
100 TW
Why can't you just hook up two of those 5 in 1 7S units to grab your 10S?
Heck I remember playing with them toys ---> rc charger and lipo and cutting a balance connector from a 8S down to 5S.
Just because it says it has a BMS does not mean shit.
BMS - (B)attery (M)urdering (S)ystem
Heck I remember playing with them toys ---> rc charger and lipo and cutting a balance connector from a 8S down to 5S.
Just because it says it has a BMS does not mean shit.
BMS - (B)attery (M)urdering (S)ystem
latecurtis said:
latecurtis
100 MW
OH. OK.
I think I will do the same. If I were running old 18650 cells then what DA. said about hiding problems would make sense but just do not see it with brand new LTO.
Yes.
I agree BMSs do murder batteries. It is why my LIFEPO4s have balance plugs. DA. is not crazy about BMSs either. He also don't like active balancers.
I get that.
What says it has a BMS. ????
The only pack I got that I run now with a BMS is the 13S - 20Ah factory built Lion pack I bought off e bay about 18 months ago I think. The factory 10S packs I ordered shortly before that failed. My guess is the BMSs. So yea. I agree that BMSs suck.
My 6S LIFE packs balance and will have to balance the 10S - LTOs with active balancer DA does not like as I was not understanding how it would be possible to balance a 10S pack with a 7 or 6S meter / external balancer. I do not know how.
I just know I like the Bluetooth app. I like to be able to monitor each cell voltage while running. It is just a cool app. It will soon be a normal feature for e bikes. Mainstream I think.
I know the best thing for the 26" dual suspension is that 750W gear reduction motor on the front. It will pull over 1,000W at 54V as is rated at 36V.
That 48V hub on the back needs more help than that front Bafang can give. I have not got any real power out of that motor since I had it hooked to 12S LIPOs back in NY.
It will be a real heavy beast with both heavy motors and 40 pounds of LTO. Total power will be > 2 kilowatts though. Gearing around 30 mph.
I will be hauling it upstairs after I get done with the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. That should hit 35 mph easily with 54V LTO.
I will be steering with a heavy duty rack and 20 pounds of LTO bolted to the handle bars. I will probably use wood like I do for the front motors Then bolt a rack to that. It must be sturdy. Carriage bolts and pressure treated lumber. I need a cool way to lock the LTOs to the bike. This is going to be a long project.
Those tool bags will make it look professional but will need to paint any wood brackets flat black as that hides flaws better than gloss black. I would like these re builds to look as good as possible.
4:55 AM.
Yea.
A few nuts and bolts and steel muffler clamps and drill bigger holes tomorrow for longer and thicker carriage bolts and we got a winner.
10S LTO up front and 10S on the top bar.
the best battery I ever hooked up to that was the 1,200W 13S - 20 AH Lion. Probably why it never hit 30 mph. It could have a few times I did not have my GPS speedometer. My point is my old 12S LiPo would destroy the 13S Lion pack.
Therefore 20S - 54V LTO should hit at least 36 mph minimum now. That is taking the extra weight into consideration. Hopefully 37 mph.
I remember the main reason for buying that 1.800W brushless motor was it is 3,000 rpm @ 48V.
so.
3,000 rpm / 48V = 62.5rpm * 54V = 3,375 rpm.
1,800W / 48V = 37.5W * 54V = 2,025W.
Thanks.
LC. out.
Attachments
DrkAngel
1 GW
With quality builds of sufficient size a balancer does nothing! (even with recycled cells!)latecurtis said:
BMS is necessary, if ... you have a defective build, bad cells or you do not monitor voltages.
For me, either is a useless waste of money.
Chalo
100 TW
DrkAngel said:
Yep. Just like a car needs a fuel filter if you don't visually and chemically analyze each new tank of fuel.
BMSes rank very high among causes of death for trashed batteries that I inspect. But I can't think of a single person I know who has an e-bike and is competent to go without one.
tomjasz
1 GW
Jeebus. Just when you think it can’t be any more ridiculous the OP demonstrates another few years of clueless builds. Nuts.
latecurtis
100 MW
You can spew out fallacies like venom about my LIFEPO4 packs that are just getting broke in.
However when i start running LTOs brand new no solder your gibberish will be revealed.
Yea.
A 20" kids bike with a 230 pound person and 40 pounds of LTOs , 36 to 37 mph gearing , Sketchy brakes ect.
Then a 26" dual suspension. a 1,000W FRONT hub on the rear and a 1,000W chain drive on the front + 40 pounds of LTOs. Top speed , approx. 30 mph.
Then a 26" Haro V3 with a 3,000W four horsepower motor and 70 amp 60V controller + the 13S power modules. 43 mph gearing.
Somewhere in between those will be the 700C Giant Roam with two 500W e bikeling geared hub motors and 12S LIFEPO4.
Before or after that.
I have a Silver 27.5" Diamondback. A Blue 20" Diamondback Viper and a black 700c Giant Cypress hybrid.
Looking at a possible RC , Ampflow or six 775, 875 or 997 robot motors , 3.5 to 4 kilowatts total power , 10S - 24V LTO. 50 mph.
I might also still want to do a belt drive.
Stay tuned for the next episode of
As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.
Thanks.
LC. out.
tomjasz
1 GW
“Break in”? That’s a pile!
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