new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

Yes, not so much a break in as a letting the charger have lots of time to get the cells balanced. Personally, Iv'e noticed that a pack that has been stored for a time can need the same "break in" again.

So the basic idea is to not try to find out what the full capacity of the battery is, until it's fully balanced. It "seems to me" like the balancing process is faster if you just take some small rides that do small discharges. Maybe in fact, it's just making it take less time to charge if the ride was short.

But the main thing to know is that the charger is not completely done when the green light goes on. It may need more time for the bms to discharge some high cells, after which the red comes back on very briefly to keep charging the lower cells. In a badly unbalanced pack, this can take weeks on the charger. But your pack should have arrived only a little out of balance, so charging overnight for a week should do it. In fact, just one overnight charge ought to be plenty. But unless you break out a voltmeter, and measure each cell one by one, it can be hard to know when the pack is actually balanced. So just charging overnight for a week is an easy way to be sure the pack gets balanced repeatedly to begin with.

In normal use, you can unplug and ride once the green light goes on, or even before if you need to. But let it charge overnight once in a while, if not every night if the ev is used daily. If you haven't ridden it for a week or more, then charge overnight before you ride it if you can. Just sitting there, the bms is actually draining a few cells.

Long term storage requires unplugging the bms from the pack, if possible.

I got my proper LIFEPO4 charger today. Basically I did the same thing as in the above post but used my 6S balance LiPo charger which has a LIFEPO4 mode. Also I used the 5 in 1 meter / external balancer on both 6S LIFEPO4 packs so my break in is basically finished. Now it is time to charge to 100% like the above post states should happen.

I may still use the 1.5 amp 42V charger for overnight charging and hook up the new 10 amp charger an hour before taking a trip. I will also be bringing the 10 amp charger with me for long trips so I can charge before returning home.

The 15 amp 54.6V Lion charger is on the way for 20S LTO charging as well. I could not find a proper 56V LTO charger to charge to 2.8V. Since I can charge to 95% at 15 amps I do not need an expensive LTO charger that charges at high amps. However I would like an inexpensive 56V charger under $50 if they make one. It could be for 1 or 2 amps as will only be used as an over night charger to charge from 95% - 54.6V up to 100% - 56V.

The 15 amp - 54.6V charger is being shipped as we speak but would like a link for a proper 56V - 20S - LTO charger if one exists.

Please let me know.

As far as that one good build or re build Tomjasz keeps talking about lets make it two good builds.

The Giant Roam will be the only bike with all pedal gears working and is in brand new condition and lists for around $500 just for the bike. I just need to do a good job on the battery rack on the rear and a small black wire factory basket up front and skip the ugly frame racks I usually build. Maybe something small for the controller but am thinking one 6S - LIFEPO4 pack on a factory rear rack and the second in a factory front basket. I want to be able to see all the factory stickers on the frame.

Then there is the Haro V3. I will be installing the chain drive similar to the first Currie upgrade in the factory SLA battery rack. (first 50 pages) It was pedal capable and even had pedal gears when it was first done. However the motor will be mount will be lower as looking at a short 8 mm chain. It will also be much neater. The brackets will look professional. Not like the Currie upgrade. I put the Currie rack on the Haro V3. Instead of the heavy bulky LTOs I could do saddle bags with the 13S power modules on the back and a black factory wire basket on the front for my chain and padlock.

With the motor on the back it would be better to mount the power modules up in the front though. I will leave it like this. Since Tomjasz keeps talking about how my builds are NOT professional then my big question is HOW would Tomjasz build the Vintage Haro V3 with the 3 kilowatt brushless motor.

I saw Tomjasz builds and admit they look factory and professional so am willing to listen to him as I respect his opinion to a point.

The point is still my point too. I could do better. It could look better / run better. That is fundamental though for any EV.

As to how I can make the Haro V3 a professional build. I am even willing to pay the bike shop to hook up disk or hydraulic brakes as it will be a 43 mph e bike.

Please let me know about that and a proper 20S - LTO - 56V charger.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

So the basic idea is to not try to find out what the full capacity of the battery is, until it's fully balanced. It "seems to me" like the balancing process is faster if you just take some small rides that do small discharges. Maybe in fact, it's just making it take less time to charge if the ride was short.

That is basically what I have been doing so far. But without a BMS. I had a couple low cell banks earlier. Probably damage done from soldering. Not sure. It was like 81% and the rest above 94%. Then one cell bank in the other 6S - 5P pack was at 91% and the rest were 95% or 96% so I hooked up the wood strip with the bolts and took 10 minutes on the 81% and it quickly charged to 3.7V on the LiLo setting. The 91% took only 5 minutes to get to 3.7V. So there were two high cells.

I then ran the pack for a short trip around 5 miles total. Maybe 6. I just hooked up my external balancer. The cell banks were not as bad as before but am balancing both packs. Then I will hook up the series connection and do a full charge with the brand new 10 amp charger. I need to solder bullets on it. That will charge to 100% and then I will see how much each cell bank is tomorrow.

When I was at the hardware store I noticed they do have 60/40 solder as well as 50/50 solder. I will use the 40/60 I have to solder the bullets but when I start soldering cells again I will get the 60/40.

I found nuts that will fit on the LTOs but the ring terminals that are for my 10 gauge wire are 75 cents each so $30 for 40 ring terminals. They had them in a package of 10 for less than 4 bucks but the wrong size ring. Too big and sloppy. They only had the right size ring for 16 to 14 gauge wire. The guy told me to look in auto parts stores. I might have to order them online.

I got new belts for my sander and will be finishing the LTO boxes this week. I forgot the L brackets and steel clamps to finish installing the front rack on the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor.

Anyway I made some progress today. I still have a long way to go before I start running LTO but there is no big rush. I still have the 13S - 20 Ah Lion pack out in the van. I can always bring it up and charge it if I need to run the 20" Turbo. I plan on running 12S LIFEPO4 most of the time though as the Currie is my cargo bike. I could hook up the 40 amp controller with the speed control knob but there really are not any really big hills here so can live with it the way it is for now.

Even though I really do not want to I will probably end up building a 13S - 7P - Lion pack and a 10S - 7P just because they take up less space and are lighter than LIFE or LTO. Better energy density. I will be using ammo boxes though and mounting them in a front basket. That way if there is a problem I will see it instantly. If it is on the frame I might as well just sit on it as I almost am. On a rear rack my ass would catch on fire before I realized what was happening. I might even order some LiPo but probably not until next year. I need to save money right now in case I have to move.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Think about what you have taken out of the battery after a full charge.
Rather then whats left in the "tank" which is the common way to think for vehicles.

You can work on your own brakes man, its not that hard.
Save your money

 

[latecurtis]

You can work on your own brakes man, its not that hard.
Save your money

Yea. All my bikes have brakes that work. Some bikes only have one brake though. The Currie has both working brakes. The 26" Diamondback Outlook needs a brake cable for the rear brake I think. It is not something I really need now. There are not a lot of hills where I am at. The bike shop I go to slows way down in the fall and winter months.

If I really need brake work I would rather have a shop do it as brakes are the main safety issue when it comes to any bike but especially e bikes that go > 30 mph. In the summer they are too busy and I have to drop off the bike so need to run my van.I would rather ride the e bike there and can re charge my LIFEPO4s or LTOs awhile I have lunch at the deli next door when they are working on the bike. Basically I can make a whole afternoon adventure as long as no snow , rain or below 20 degree weather. I can even take the long way home and hit Wall-Mart on the way home.

For right now though I am just going to keep working on the LTOs. I might not need brake work until the first of the year. I am not going that far and no steep hills so I am good.

I might order active balancers for the LIFEPO4s if I keep having low cell bank issues. What DA. said about hiding a problem until it causes a short or catastrophic failure does not apply to LIFEPO4 or LTO as no thermal runaway. Therefore I think the 6S - 5P - LIFEPO4 packs could benefit running active balancers all the time like I am planning to do with the LTOs.

Obviously some of the 26650 cells were damaged from soldering so the active balancers should keep the packs balanced so I can just plug and play. At some point it wont run at all. But no fires or explosions. My guess is the cells I got too hot soldering wont have 5,000 cycles. Mabye only 3,000 or 2.000 but will never start on fire or blow up. That is why LIFEPO4 is better.

I will never use an active balancer on Lithium ion however as then DA. is 100% correct about a short circuit / fire / explosion ect. from hiding a problem. I will externally balance 18650. Since I have two 6S balancers and a 7S balancer is it possible to balance a 13S - 18650 pack with a 7S and a 6S balancer/meter at the same time ??????? That could also work with the 13S power modules.

I did not forget about the two 4.8 kilowatt modules. The thing is I bought the LIFEPO4s first for 300+ and then the LTOs for 600+ , then the power modules for around 100. I like the power modules for the 3 kilowatt brushless motor. The LTOs are too bulky / heavy for a race bike. The Haro V3 will be the go and show bike. It will go over 40 mph and look sexy doing it.

Until that happens I want to have some fun with the 1,800W brushless motor with 20S LTO. Hopefully 37 mph.

I was too lazy to hook the 12S LIFE packs to the 10 amp charger as did not feel like soldering bullets tonight but it did not take a long time to balance them with the 5 in 1 meter. less than an hour. I threw the 42V charger for overnight. I might get the 10 amp proper charger done tomorrow. I am drinking gin right now so who knows.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. LIFEPO4 - 12S. 6S good - 6S ?????

Yea.


I soldered the bullets on the new charger last night. Then did a quick balance for each pack and got some interesting results after charging at 10 amps and 43.8V.

The pack I soldered with the Weller read at 99% just now for all six cell banks. They were actually balanced twice last night and hooked up to the 10 amp charger. The bad news is the 6S pack I did NOT solder with the Weller read 96% each cell bank.

Actually that is a lot better than five cell banks at 95 or 96% and one at 81% like before. By charging at the correct voltage for 12S - LIFEPO4 both packs are now stable. The pack I heated up and soldered with the 60 watt iron does lose some voltage.

If the pack gets worse or a low cell bank does happen again I guess I will be ordering two active balancers. I could probably get away with just one but might as well order two as then I should never have to balance again. I can run while they balance and also charge while they balance.

However if there is no low cells anymore I don't need the active balancers. At first I was wondering if the new charger even worked as the total voltage from the packs was like 41.5V and in less than 5 minutes the charger light turned green but the total voltage did go up to > 43V so I know it is working. In fact it could be charging at a very low current even with a green light.

The 6S LiPo charger does charge at 43.8V also but only if the cells are well balanced. I have to do it over at least once if not. Last night I had the one pack at 99% and the other was 96 to 97% so put the lower pack on the LiPo charger on balance mode until the cells were all at 3.6 or 3.59V then unhooked the LiPo charger and hooked the packs in parallel again and hooked up the 10 amp charger and series charged. The light went green almost instantly. I left it plugged in for a few hours and unplugged it in before I went to bed.

It is plugged in now after I saw the one pack still at 99% and the other at 96%. I will check them again before making a Wall-Mart run with the Currie. The good news is I think that the one pack I soldered with the Weller is perfect. I just do not know how to prove it to myself and others here on ES. The main reason is I am trying to find out why there seems to be a lack of power or discharge. I need to find out if one or both packs are defective. If there actually is cold solder joints ect. I just need to know.

For one thing the LTOs were supposed to be for the FX - 75-5 motor. They are obviously way too heavy for e bikes. I have no problem running 10S - LTO on any e bike but 20S or 40 pounds of batteries is ridiculous. I am trying it but if I build the FX - 75 - 5 motor then the LTOs will be exclusively for an electric motor cycle. At that point I will want a 54V - LIFEPO4 pack. However if I find out that it is not cold solder joints or heated up cells that is the cause of a lack of discharge then I will need to look at the cells them selves for problems.

I do have a internal resistance meter so can measure that for each 6S pack. However I do not even have a reference point as to what iR should be for a 6S - 5P pack. ????????

How do I find out if the packs are defective because of my soldering or the cells are of poor quality. The 26" Diamondback Outlook with the Dual motors runs fine but the Currie seems to be lacking power going to the rear 36V motor. I could hook up the 40 amp brush controller with the speed control knob but just do not feel like it. I am lazy.

I will see how it runs tonight now that I can at least charge at 100%. 99% is great for the next day but not 96%. I have 20 LIFEPO4s left but they too were soldered with the 60 watt iron and heated up to ridiculously high temperatures for sometimes > 30 seconds. I do not have any more new cells that were never soldered but do know that Battery Hookup still have those.

The big question is if I should buy more or order a different brand of LIFEPO4s or maybe just order two 6S LiPos and just use the 12S - Sketchy packs for Bafang motors which do not draw more than 36 amps for dual motors or 18 amps for a single Bafang.

The Currie needs more power. That much I know. So does the 26" Dual suspension. That 1,000W hub motor needs power. A lot of power. It ran great with 12S LiPo and the stock controller back in NY. It has been slow and sluggish here and so is the 1,000W 36V Currie motor.

I am charging my cameras and hope to shoot a video which will include the power meter as well as the GPS speedometer if it works. I am hoping DA. and other ES members can watch the video and can get some feedback. The big question is are the 12S - LIFEPO4 packs discharging like they should be or are they defective. I heard that LIFEPO4 does SAG so adding a single 1S - 5P cell bank in series could help but would be a pain in the ass as will need to charge separate but if that could help out the Currie that would be great. It will NOT help the Bafang however and could damage it ???????????

The power meter reads current , voltage and total power and the speedometer speed so using those factors plus total weight and inclines / small hills a graph could be done by DA. I want to see what the power range should be and what it actually is. My packs need a rating of either

Good or what is expected

or

lower than what is suspected or slightly defective.

or

Abnormal or damaged way below normal.

If Good or slightly defective it could help to add a 1S- 5P - pack in series for 13S total but if the packs are Abnormal or damaged would it even be worth it. Would it even help ???????

I will post the video when I get back.


Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Love it
Stuff a question somewhere in the middle
:thumb:

I dont know of how you can test it, its molecular level, electrolyte and magic stuff with a wand.
Internal Resistance would be a good way, I dont know if the cheap IR meters are even worth anything.
Sure you can spend big money on a Fluke IR meter if they have one, thats the only brand I know for top of the line stuff.

 

[latecurtis]

Well I know DA does graphs.

I also know LIFEPO4 will SAG. That is a fact. How much is normal is a big question.

I also know I weigh at least 230 pounds and the Currie at least 50 pounds with the batteries so we will go with 300 pounds total as my chain and padlock , clothes , backpack , ect.

Not sure what the incline is on the hills but would guess < 22%. I could be wrong though but DA. could put 15% up to 25% and look for the in between. Then the meter and speedometer to do a graph as to what the performance is now and what SHOULD happen if I were to upgrade voltage by running 13S.

I have to get going.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJVNcxw1Qqw

From what I see The Bafang controller is pulling > 700W and the brush controller < 500W.

It could be that the throttle is hooked up to the Bafang controller with three wires and only a single wire going to the brush controller.

I will know for sure when I hook up the 2 kilowatt brush controller with the built in speed control knob.

I can still use the thumb throttle for the front Bafang. I just have to unhook the 1,000W brush controller and wire up the 2 kilowatt 40 amp. I may want to leave it though with plugs to hook back up just in case the 2 kilowatt controller fails. They were never that reliable but are < $15.

I should be getting at least 1,500W total with both the 18 amp Bafang and a 1,000W brush controller. I think using a single throttle is somehow cutting the power of the brush motor by at least 50%. Or is it defective batteries ????? That is the purpose of measuring everything with the meter and a speedometer. To hopefully find out.

Please let me know.


What I know is the pack I soldered with the Weller is holding 99% full charge before the run and about 1/2 hour on the 10 amp charger after the run as just checked it. The pack I compromised by heating it up and re soldering two or three times with the 60 watt iron is only charging to 96 and 97% That is also a fact here.

That should also prove that the Weller did not solder any cold solder joints but the other pack might have that issue or cell damage from excessive heat. Those factors will help me decide if I should order more of those 26650 cells or not.

I also know that I can charge from around 33% to 99% in about 1/2 hour with the 10 amp charger. That is great as long as I have a place to plug in the charger. It does me no good if I run out of juice 10 miles away from an AC outlet. The 40 amp brush controller with the speed control knob has no LVC though. That could get me home as discharging LIFEPO4 below 3V does not really hurt them. I would not want to go below 2.5V though as would like at least 2,000 cycles.

It looks like the pack I soldered with the Weller and maintains a 99% charge could last > 5,000 cycles and the other pack < 2,000. Therefore I will need more cells and one more 6S - 5P pack soldered with the Weller.

I would like to hear from DA as well. He might know for sure if it is the throttle. I also used two controllers and a single throttle on the dual Bafangs on the 26" Diamondback Outlook but the controllers were exactly the same. 17 amps each.

Also DA. can do one of his famous graphs to see what power output and discharge rate I should be getting from 12S LIFEPO4s. That is taking everything into consideration. The 1320W - The 24.4 mph and 15% incline as well. The meter shows amps , watts and voltage so there should be enough information for a graph and an answer to the throttle question. Or defective battery question.

With the Currie I am using one Brushless with three wires and only the middle green throttle wire going to the brush controller.

Notice the GPS speedometer read 24.4 mph as top speed at the end of the video. So 1230W total power and 24.4 mph on a maybe 15% incline. Not sure.

All I know is if I can get about 1,200W to the rear chain with the 40 amp brush controller I should hit 30 mph. The Bafang is only geared for 20 mph so will not help top speed. The highest top speed on the flat so far with that bike was 28 mph on the video I took about a month or two ago.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Don't see how I can help with your LiFe woes. I've already instructed you on a "scientific" type diagnosis to determine actual Ah and cell equality. To which you replied "not interested" you "know how other batteries acted". ...?

 

[markz]

There is no sense in repeating yourself as you've already done so many times Dark Angel.
Best for Curtis to go back 50 pages and read.

 

[latecurtis]

Don't see how I can help with your LiFe woes. I've already instructed you on a "scientific" type diagnosis to determine actual Ah and cell equality. To which you replied "not interested" you know how other batteries acted.

Yea.

The fact that I am using a brushless controller and brush controller with the same throttle could be a major part of the problem.

I should have used the 2 kilowatt 40 amp controller with the speed control knob instead of ordering a 1,000W 36V controller.

The big issue now is the Currie is out in the van and am not hauling that heavy beast up three flights of stairs to re wire it.

Unless I bring everything I need down stairs I cant do it. I know I will be running up and down the stairs like a Yo Yo. Also I got people wanting to have a conversation with me while I am trying to concentrate. It just sucks living in an attic.

I am about to check voltage on all the cell banks now as has been about 24 hours since charging.

I just tested each pack with the 5 in 1 meter and am somewhat happy with the results. The pack that is in question that I did first with the 60W iron is at 96%. ALL cells. No low cell. That could be because I am using a proper 43.8V charger.

The pack I soldered with the Weller and did NOT heat up or damage the cells has one cell bank reading 98% and the other five are still at 99%. All cells are very close now.

I really want to move to a first floor apartment. My wife has vertigo and can not do the stairs so is like a prisoner here. We need a first floor dwelling but needs to be in a safe neighborhood. Something we have not had in about 20 years. I really need a garage with all my e bikes. A cement floor and plenty of space will allow me to charge Lion with no risk of burning down a house.

I am not paying another dime of rent here. The fire escape is a death trap. There are like a dozen code violations. I got roaches running around and did not bring them here. They are coming from downstairs. I had a decent land lord when I moved in but that land lord sold the building and now am dealing with a slum lord again. Code was here last month and might be closing the building down.

I am still working on the LTOs. Also the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. I did not drink last night but could not sleep much. I was up and down like every 1/2 hour from 11PM until 5:30 AM. I watched the 6 AM news and went back to bed at 8:30 AM but did not get any real restful sleep until after noon.

I sleep the best from 12 NOON until 6PM. I am totally nocturnal. Unless I am drunk I can not sleep normal hours. The part of my brain that produces melatonin and other hormones only works good from Noon until 6PM. I know this as I get really tired and groggy and can fall asleep in like 5 minutes. It feels like I am drugged. Also other effects I will not mention. :lol: It really sucks though as I hate taking pills and only drinking excessive amounts of alcohol can help me sleep semi normal.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

The pack I soldered with the Weller and did NOT heat up or damage the cells has one cell bank reading 98% and the other five are still at 99%. All cells are very close now.

How do you know it did not damage the cells?
You've said that several times, just repeating it like you do other things.
Its hidden damage.
Just like if you were to store the battery at full voltage, you are damaging the battery. Its hidden damage. Justin says in his video, that heat damages the cells. The video of the previous warehouse tour.

 

[latecurtis]

How do you know it did not damage the cells?

I thought that cells that retain close to full charge standing voltage are in perfect condition ????

I know that those cells were soldered one time with the Weller and barley warm to the touch. But not the other pack.

I just need to run the 40 amp brush controller one time with the power meter. If it goes 30 mph and > or = 1,200W then I know there is no discharge issues with the 12S LIFEPO4 batteries.

The front Bafang should not be run at all up hills or > 20 mph. It is best used from 10 to 17 mph on flat. The 1,000W - 36V chain drive needs to run SOLO up hills and > 17 mph.

I am happy about one thing. There is no really low cell banks now that I am charging 12S - 43.8V. I might be ok. The 40 amp brush controller will tell the story. Also since there is no LVC and think operating voltage is 10 to 50V I should be able to run the LIFEPO4s below 3V per cell or

2.7V * 12 = 32.4V.

That takes care of the capacity test. If It can go 15 or 20 miles I will be happy. Also if I get 30 mph and at least 1,200W going to the brush motor it will have passed all the tests you and DA. were referring to.

The 10S active balancers for the LTOs are at the post office. Looks like another week for the 15 amp charger and have not found a 56V proper 20S - LTO charger.

My main issue right now is housing though. I just need a better place. First floor and a basement or garage with cement floor and good ventilation. I have not completely gave up on 18650 cells or LiPo. I just do not want to mess around with them in a closet on the third floor.

I have not completely given up on SOLAR power either. Just looking for a good deal. I know storage is a big issue. However the hours during the day when the sun is shining zero or limited storage is just fine. I can still save money in the long run.

The old guy that charged me a fortune to upgrade the Currie when I first got it to 36V way back in the start or even before this post had a complete solar charging system in his garage with solar panels on the roof. It just makes sense and is e bike related as can charge any battery for free.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[nicobie]

In the time you've spent typing posts here in the last 24 hours you could have hauled that bike up and down a dozen flights. Give your body a chance and start moving.

If you don't use it, you lose it. :wink:

 

[markz]

Take a look at this for some keywords to search from ES gurus
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60169&p=903778&hilit=electrolyte#p903766
decomposition
electrolyte
intercalatable structure damage


https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=88110&p=1464850&hilit=heat#p1464850

Thats from literally a minute of searching, using the advance search function Endless Sphere has to offer, utilizing
Search for author:
and
Search for keywords:

Do that for es gurus like Liveforphysics, DarkAngel, Justin_le and many others

 

[latecurtis]

In the time you've spent typing posts here in the last 24 hours you could have hauled that bike up and down a dozen flights. Give your body a chance and start moving.

yea.

I got heart condition. Not supposed to lift more than 20 pounds. Also back and knee , shoulder issue. I got my medical weed card before COVID so had to see 6 doctors. During COVID anyone could make up symptoms to get one. I really am disabled. I could also break my neck.

I can still walk and 20 pound dumbbells' a few sets a day. I am lazy/ Really lazy.

Anyway I might be able to by pass the controller and have the option of hooking it back up if I needed to. Like a spare controller.

Top pic shows current wiring. Bottom throttle wiring.

Bafang controller pulls about 760W.

Brush controller only about 480W according to power meter.

Looking at changing that so brush motor gets > 1,000W. Middle pic.

I will be able to switch either motor off and still run both but see no reason to. The brush motor should be able to go up any hill but will see what happens. As long as the brush motor gets at least 1,000W that is all that matters here.

Thanks.

LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

single pole single throw

That is my guess.

40 amp DC breakers

The only bikes I hooked the 12S LIFE to is that bike and the dual Bafangs.

Dual Bafang runs great so lack of power to brush on the Currie could be the way I wired the throttle so could turn off rear brush and run Bafang SOLO.

Shared throttle reason for lack of power. I should get > 1,000W for brush and > 500 for brushless. Should be pulling 1600 to 1800 watts both motors. Video only shows 1,230W and 765W Bafang SOLO. Brushless controller 18 amps and brush 26 amp.

If I can get 40 amps to the brush motor and 18 to the brushless that is 2,378W both motors. 18 amp front and 40 amp rear. What I am looking for. It will also prove my LIFEPO4 packs work great.

If Worse case SAG is 39V than 58 * 39 = 2,262 watts.

My question or point is to draw as many amps as possible from the packs using both motors in parallel. That will prove if the packs are any good or not. Discharge rate is what I want to measure with the power meter.

There is no LVC on the 40 amp brush controller but is on the 26 amp and on the Bafang controller. If the 40 amp works I should be able to run it down to around 30V. 2.5V * 12 but will shoot for 12 * 2.7V = 32.4V. That should give me the true capacity of the packs.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Never heard of such a thing "DC breakers"
Well I can see it for solar I guess. I just won't bother to check or should I?
Yeah so my hunch was right - https://www.amazon.com/MidNite-Solar-Breaker-150VDC-MNEPV40/dp/B00BSYST96
https://www.solaris-shop.com/midnite-solar-mnepv40-40a-din-mount-circuit-breaker/

Yeah your packs will work until they dont. You just probably shortened the life span is all. Have no clue until a year or two later after 100's of uses. But the question will linger.




Go on

 

[latecurtis]

An ES member told me about them on this post about two years ago.

I use them on all my e bikes now.

Yeah your packs will work until they dont. You just probably shortened the life span is all. Have no clue until a year or two later after 100's of uses. But the question will linger.

Not really.

As long as they run and charge and not much voltage loss the only thing I need to know is discharge rate. It is the performance that is important to me. They are rated for 5,000 full charges new in the box. 1,000 full discharges is still like 3 or 4 years minimum for me as I usually only do 4 to 10 mile trips. discharge rate and charge rates are what I want.

I am deciding if I want to order a bunch more. Like a box or two a month. the LTOs are very heavy and bulky.

A large 54V or 56V or 58V - LIFEPO4 pack is what I might do. That is what I am thinking.

Not sure if that could work for the 26" dual suspension with the 1,000W hub on the rear and Bafang up front.

I know that both LTO and LIFE can be drained low. 5P - LIFE is rated at 19 Ah and the LTOs are rated for 18 Ah.

Neither will run a BMS. I got active balancers for the LTOs.

If I get active balancers for the 12S LIFE as well than at low voltage all cell banks would be equal. If the 36V controller LVC trips the 60V LVC might not and still rum a few miles at low speed.



If not then how about this ???????




I tried hooking the 12S - LIFEPO4 to the 1,000W 48V Greentime controller and would not run at all.

It has a 36V -18 amp Greentime on the front for the Bafang.

If that could work than I could just skip re wiring the Currie for now.

Also one 10S - LTO pack is about 20 pounds. A 22 Ah - SLA is 13 pounds and a lot smaller. If I could run the 12S LIFEPO4s in series with the 22 AH - SLA in a front basket for 54V it should work perfect for the 1,800W brushless motor.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

4:24 AM



Yea. I really like the idea. I could try it for the 1,800W brushless motor.

I could also build a 4S - 5P - LIFEPO4 pack with the other 20 cells I got but would have to balance charge after each run as those cells were also heated up / damaged with the 60 watt iron and skinny tip. I hardly used the SLA. Just to run a heater in the van a couple times and a 1 amp trickle charger.

It is a lot simpler to throw the SLA on the proper SLA charger I bought for it overnight when I plug in my 42V or 43.8V charger in to the 12S LIFEPO4.

I could care less if I have to replace the SLA every 3 to 6 months. Only 20 or 30 bucks for easy charging over night instead of balancing charging defective 4S - LIFE.

It is also an easy way to measure discharge from my 12S - LIFE pack. If I get 36 to 39 mph I am right where I want to be.

fresh off the charger the 12S - LIFE - 43V and the 22 Ah - SLA - 13V so 56V before SAG.

so if 6V - SAG.

@ 50V the 1,500W - 48V controller is 38 amps.

50V * 38A = 1,900W.

I would like to hear from DA on this.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

10/3/21

Another useless day. Slept until about 4:30 PM.

Looks like rain. So lazy all I can do is play a flash game on my laptop. I got to go to a grocery store at some point in time for food and a then a store that sells beer on Sunday.

I will try to work on the LTOs

I know everyone is probably wondering why I would want to hook up my 12S - LIFE packs to a 22 Ah SLA. Here is 9 reasons why.

1.) I want 50+ volts.

2.) I do not feel like soldering or building a 4S - 5P - LIFEPO4 pack right now with the 20 cells.

3.) I do not feel like spending three to four days balancing a defective pack like I did with the one 6S - 5P - pack.

4.) I do not feel like having to Balance charge at 4S with my LiPo charger after each run.

5.) I do not feel like spending more money on a 4S - BMS or Active balancer.

6.) I just want to plug and play.

The two 6S - LIFEPO4 packs are finally balanced and can just charge at 12S with my 43.8V - 10 amp charger and all cells in the damaged pack will be 96 to 97% and the good pack 98 to 99%.

I bought a dedicated 12V - SLA charger which I think is about 3 amps for the 22 Ah - SLA.

Yea. It is simple. I am both really lazy and can not afford to spend money right now as I need to move.

I just want to fix my flat tire and finish the front rack for the SLA and the frame for the 12S - LIFEPO4 and go 35 mph.

OH

7.) I want to test the 12S - LIFEPO4s now for discharge before building more LIFEPO4.


If I can get 35 mph from 12S - LIFE in series with an SLA THEN I will build the 4S - 5P pack to replace the SLA.


I finally got all six sides done for one 10S - LTO. I glue and wait 24 hours then add 8 screws for each panel. I wont need L brackets but I still need series connections and the active balancers. Also a battery bag for each 10S pack. Looking at 22 pounds or close to 23 pounds when it is done. That is ridiculous.

8.) 20S - LTO = 45 pounds total. vs 12S - LIFEPO4 + 1 - 22 Ah SLA = 30 pounds.

9.) The battery bags for the LTOs will cost at least $30 and at least another $30 for ring terminals. NOT happening this month. I do not want to spend any money on e bikes this month. Not until after I move : However I would still like to go 35 mph with the 1,800W brushless motor.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

What happened to your $80 16lb 48V 12.8Ah 200A powercell battery?
All you had to do was solder on connectors.

 

[latecurtis]

What happened to your $80 16lb 48V 12.8Ah 200A powercell battery?
All you had to do was solder on connectors.

Well I was going to wait for a BMS or active balancer. But since you said I wont need one I might be able to use my external balancers ?????????

Would it be ok to hook up the 5 in 1 balance meter which can do 7S and one of my 6S external balancers. ????????????????

I will still need 7S balance extensions as I only have 6S extensions.

Please let me know as if I can order male and female 7S balance extensions I will as soon as I move.

I really can not spend a dime this month on e bikes.

However !!

I just got back from a short walk to get some groceries and a 12 pack of Bud Ice. I do my best thinking when walking and did some math in my head.

The video with the Currie shows 1230W total power on the meter with both controllers hooked up. The 26 amp and the 18 amp. It should be a lot more though as 39V (AFTER SAG) * 44 amps = 1,716W

BUT

My wiring is sketchy. I wired the throttle to both controllers with a single green wire going to the 26 amp 1,000W brush controller.

With that 1,500W controller and a single throttle



If I am getting > 1,200W @ 12S - LIFEPO4 Then it is safe to say 16S should give me > 1,600W.

I still need to calculate SAG.

It is possible the sketchy controller wiring is not the cause as the video shows a lot of SAG.



But even with that much SAG I got 100W from each 1S - 5P cell bank so 1,600W with the 1,500W controller should be possible.

38 amps *

 

[DrkAngel]

I shouldn't, but because I'm tired of listening to your whining about "bad LiFe?"...



Took a whole < 2 seconds to find.

 

[latecurtis]

OK.

I looked at the video and the meter was > 41V but only 33V @ 1,230 Watts so will go with 9V SAG.

If I add 11 more volts for a 4S - LIFEPO4 pack (after SAG) I only get 44V.

Since 41V is the under limiting It might work. I know I ran that controller with 10S - Lion. Probably what killed my new 10S - 8P pack

44V * 38 amps = 1,672W = 35 mph ?????????????????

Please let me know. If you think that is right I will break out the Weller and build the a 4S - LIFEPO4 pack with the 20 cells I got left.



That shows the SAG starting a car. I am surprised it even started the car. I thought at least 12V was required to start a car.


Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

What happened to your $80 16lb 48V 12.8Ah 200A powercell battery?
All you had to do was solder on connectors.

Well I was going to wait for a BMS or active balancer. But since you said I wont need one I might be able to use my external balancers ?????????

Just buy 1 more "powercell", not take off and throw away the attached balance board, add in full parallel to the stripped 2 you already have for an impressive 300A capable 48V 19.2Ah battery?

"Not needing" a BMS or active balancer is 1st determined by basic testing, and monitoring.

 

[latecurtis]

Just buy 1 more "powercell", not take off and throw away the attached balance board, add in full parallel to the stripped 2 you already have for an impressive 300A capable 48V 19.2Ah battery?

Does the balance board keep the packs balanced ?????????

In the video I watched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nn7EWmLs1k

He says it is a PCB board that connects to a higher server. I did not think it would balance the pack/packs.

I guess if that is the case I should order another one.

The thing is I do not plan on spending a dime this month. I really have to move.

I am not even finishing the LTOs as I want to get flat copper bars and cut them and drill holes for 350 amps.

The distance between the holes are not exactly the same as I built it

I will need to measure the length and cut each one and also measure for the holes to drill. I will then have two 10S - LTOs capable of 350 amps. One more might run the 350 amp SEVCON controller for the FX - 75 - 5 motor.

Therefore I am waiting on the LTOs as well as the power modules until after I move and pay rent and security and get the utilities hooked up.

I can solder the 4S - 5P - LIFEPO4 pack for 16S total and hope it will run the 1,800W brushless motor. That wont cost anything as I have everything I need and can charge 4S - LTO with my 6S LiPo chargers.

Thanks.

LC. out.