new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

1st off, 12s gives pitiful "48V" (44.4V) performance!
2nd point, another example of poor math skills! Listed Lipo, even if rated truthfully, cost $445/kWh!
Compare to brand name, higher rated output, sturdy reinforced casing, with included balance board, 13s (48.1V) Panasonic "power modules" @ $125/kWh.

We will see about that.

I am not saying you are wrong. I have yet to run the power modules. In fact have you run them yet ? They probably are bad ass like you say.

I am not buying LiPo JUST for performance anyway. It is the smaller space and energy density , but will be an interesting comparison.

The Lion (power modules) vs 12S LiPo vs 16S LIFE vs 20S LTO. Same motor and controller and e bike. I would not bet against the power modules as I never ran them. The LTOs either. I WILL bet against 16S LIFE however as I know they SAG.

It will be an interesting experiment. I do not like running Lion or LiPo here in my 400 square foot attic apartment in a walk in closet. Even if I contained a fire the smoke and fumes would kill my wife. She is 77 with advanced COPD. I need a separate area like a basement with concrete or dirt floor or a garage. Or even a back yard with a table and extension cord.

Once that happens I will charge LiPo , Lion and spot weld packs. I will then be in that position to see which battery is boss.

Probably use the 3 kilowatt brushless motor and the Haro V3. It will all be posted right here on As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

1st off, 12s gives pitiful "48V" (44.4V) performance!
2nd point, another example of poor math skills! Listed Lipo, even if rated truthfully, cost $445/kWh!
Compare to brand name, higher rated output, sturdy reinforced casing, with included balance board, 13s (48.1V) Panasonic "power modules" @ $125/kWh.

We will see about that.

I am not saying you are wrong. I have yet to run the power modules. In fact have you run them yet ? They probably are bad ass like you say.

Running 15s8p mj1 battery. 55V 28Ah (1.5kWh), cost $180. Turned 3x 10s4p into 15s8p for power and range. 36A controller only briefly pulls a bit over 1C and only charging to 60V (4.0V\cell) for extreme lifespan.

 

[latecurtis]

You are referring to Lion ?????

18650 cells ???/

I will be doing the same thing then after I move and have a safe place to charge 18650. I could also run them in a front basket instead of buying LiPo packs then. I already have the 18650 cells.

But until then I have a valid question.

Since charging voltage for 12S - LIFE is 43.6V the SAG voltage under heavy load is 34V that is a 9V difference so am thinking if I gear the next bike to 48V then will need 60V of LIFEPO4 or 18S ?????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMwIxkOuVDo&t=23s

Not sure. I will have 16S when I build the other 4S - 5P pack with the 20 cells I have left. That is 54V but with SAG about 44 I am guessing so piss poor performance.



That is a guess but less than a mile fresh off the 43,6V charger the 12S - LIFEPO4 SAG was around 34V going up that hill with the power meter. So it is a safe guess 54V will SAG to 44V. So 60V or 18S should SAG to around 50V.

One more box of the same cells will be less than $40 bucks I think. I am just wondering about the controllers. It should be under the 60V limit ????? The controller for the 1,800W brushless motor is 36 to 48V I think. The Greentime controller for the 1,000W hub motor on the back of the dual suspension is 48 to 60V I think.


LIFEPO4 seems to SAG just hooking it up to a controller with no load. > 42V and just under 40V when I run them the first couple of miles. I am not sure ?????

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Your controller has 60V capacitors?

That sucks

My Greentime controller is 36V 35A model and I am using Grintech 21700 52V 14.5Ah battery with BMS which at full charge is 58.8V so under 60V capacitors, I have opened it up I just dont know the cap volts. I also have a 36V 20Ah Ryobi battery without bms. Best of both worlds, and the 52V is "Turbo" mode :lol: Just have to stop and switch XT90 connectors :wink:

I am pretty sure the capacitor voltages are posted in the Greentime controller thread, or that might have been the sensored HKSUNWIN controllers off ebay.

 

[latecurtis]

Your controller has 60V capacitors?

I don't know. I have yet to run a 60V battery. The most I have run is 13S or 54V.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Blacklite]

Not quite sure of the incessant need to capitalise the word “sag”, but I’d suggest that dodgy soldered connections are a good place to start looking for such drops under load.

 

[DrkAngel]

I must point out that I did instruct on simple way to test solder joint integrity-conductivity.
Again ... LC displayed no interest in finding actual reason for poor battery performance.

 

[latecurtis]

Not quite sure of the incessant need to capitalise the word “sag”, but I’d suggest that dodgy soldered connections are a good place to start looking for such drops under load.

I must point out that I did instruct on simple way to test solder joint integrity-conductivity.
Again ... LC displayed no interest in finding actual reason for poor battery performance.

Well it is that the cells have already been heated up soldering. They may be damaged but they still run.

De soldering and then re soldering would only heat them up more causing even more damage to the inside of the cells. Then I may not be able to run them at all.

Also LIFEPO4 batteries SAG naturally so it could be normal. I would not know what amount of SAG is normal though as it is the first time running LIFEPO4. I have nothing to compare it to.

The only way to find out would be to order the exact cells and spot weld them and build a 12S - 5P pack and run those. If the SAG voltage is about the same then I would know that these packs were built right. If the spot welded packs SAG only 1/2 as much or 75% as much then it could be my soldering.

I could pull each 6S pack out of the black boxes and test each bank easily but if I cant fix a problem without heating the cell up again and doing more damage then I do not see the sense in it.

Standing voltage is 97% * 5 and 96% *1 on the pack I soldered with the Weller and 99% * 5 and 98% *1 with the other pack I soldered with the 60W iron.

That really makes no sense as should be the other way around. I can measure internal resistance for each cell bank using the piece of wood with the bolts.

I tried that and the IR meter is all over the place. I think I got robbed on that meter. I just need to build the other 4S - 5P pack and see how it runs. 16S = about 57V. Higher than I thought.

Right now total voltage =



I think my meter is off.

I will use the balancer to measure each pack then and add it up. 43.4V / 12 = 3.61 * 4 = 14.46 + 43.4 = 57V approximately. I got 57.8V but that is kind of high.



I get 43.37V. I guess the meter is working ok. I left it on and killed the battery in it and had to replace it the other day.

Ok so with the 4S - 5P pack in series I am looking at right around 57V. That should work fine then as below 60V caps.

It will probably SAG to 48V though especially if I am drawing > 50 amps. So gearing should be perfect for 48V.

The 1,800W brushless motor is rated at 3,000 rpm @ 48V.

I will know today if the wheel sprocket is a 60T or 56T. I think it is 56T but not 100% sure so



OK.

We may not need to wait until I find a new place to test three kinds of battery types.

I will be able to test 16S - LIFEPO4 vs 20S - LTO vs the 13S power modules on the same bike , motor and controller,

Not sure what the standing voltage is on 20S - LTO but at 2.7V - 20 * 2.7V = 54V.

It should be an interesting test to see what the best battery is. LIFEPO4 , LTO or Lion.

I do have 10 gauge wire for the LTOs but have not found the right size ring connecters. I wanted to wire it for 350 amps but will wait until I am actually ready to run the FX motor. That might be awhile.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000214764296.html?spm=a2g0o.search0304.0.0.7149161cY21DCM&algo_pvid=357032af-849a-4f7e-a42d-c4cb4ffa636c&algo_exp_id=357032af-849a-4f7e-a42d-c4cb4ffa636c-8





Yea.

I wanted to do a belt drive awhile back. Nobody here seemed to be interested in it. I kind of gave up due to lack of enthusiasm.

I guess hub motors are all anyone recommends here on ES. That is kind of a shame as there are so many different choices of motors like RC with low KV and many others like that one.

Also a good quality belt can out last most chains many times over and don't require lubrication. Also smoother acceleration from what I have been told.

I am not buying it now but am thinking about a 24V build after I move as 10S - LTO is only 20 pounds where 20S LTO is 40 pounds. Basically I should get a dirt bike frame just to mount 40 pounds of LTO. Way too much weight for a mountain bike or 20" kids bike.

Also I am wondering how the Ah works with LTO. I know that LIFEPO4 is 1/2 what Lion is or less. 19 Ah of LIFE is about 10 Ah of Lion. And that is not because there is something wrong with my LIFEPO4s as they naturally SAG and run at a lower voltage than they charge. Like SLA. DA. said that several pages back and supplied a graph.

It is why I am not taking the two 6S packs apart as there is really no sense. LIFEPO4 runs at a lower voltage like SLA and SAGS like SLA and that is why the LVC will happen way before Lion.

My big question is LTO. How does that compare to LIFE or Lion. Does it SAG like LIFE. What about AH. Does it run at a lower voltage like LIFE. I know for a fact LIFE loses 1 to 2V just hooking it up and turning on the controller. Standing voltage is 43 and running voltage less. The power meter showed that clearly. There is no sense in tearing the LIFE packs apart if that is their natural condition.

If I can get at least 10 miles from 10S LTO then building a 24V - 1,000W belt drive e bike would be awesome. The battery will last a lifetime and 10S - LTO can go on the top bar of the frame so could have two cargo baskets. One in the front and one in the back.

Anyway I have procrastinated enough. It is time to fire up the Weller and get the 4S pack finished. Note that the cells were previously soldered with the 60 watt iron with the wrong tip. Probably cheap Wall-Mart solder. Since I am NOT de soldering as I do not know how I am going to heat up the existing solder and remove any pieces of wire ant that will be tinning the top of the cells.

The bottom solder joints just peeled right off so will be using the 60/40 solder I have. I am not spending $20 on 40/60 as both 6S packs are 60/40 so why switch now. Once I move and IF/WHEN I get brand new 26650 cells I will probably be spot welding so for right now I want to learn how to solder.

I know NOT to drop solder balls. I am going to try to follow what the guy does in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvHtaBQmdss&t=763s

The first video will be the negative side of a 26650 cell. I will try to tin the cell like the guy did. I will try a 18650 cell first then a 26650 cell. I just want to at least learn basic soldering skills.

I will post a video/ videos. NO SOLDER BALLS!!!!



10/25/21

Well I do need mental health. I lost my Obama phone a few days ago and now my electric face mask is missing. It really sucks as I need to wear it so I do not inhale lead solder fumes. The little air purifier does help but really need the electric mask. I may not finish the 4S - 5P pack until I either find the lost mask or order another one.

Anyway I did manage a short video. I soldered 5 wires to the negative side of five cells. I edited out the one I really screwed up but there is a few good solder joints I think. I did NOT drop balls this time. I tried to do what the guy did in the video tinning the cells. I also cleaned the tip several times as well as tinning the tip and the wires before soldering the wire to the cell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moScWR4z420

Thanks.

LC. out.


11:02 PM

I did the positive tops. I had to cut off most of the old solder joint on 4 out of 5. I used a pair of old wire cutters.

I added a fan as well as the air purifier. I did a video for the hell of it.

No I am not changing much wire wise. Just tinning the cells instead of dropping balls. :lol:

They will be in series with the other two done similar style.

Three banks to go. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHEvCGsiazM




10/26/21

Well nobody is posting. Is it that I did something right and nobody has anything to say ????

I do not see how I could have done much better. I did NOT drop a solder ball and then heat it up. I did exactly what the guy in the video did. The pictures below show that. Wetting occurred and the cell was properly tinned.

No way that is a cold solder joint. It will NOT peel off. The only way to remove that solder is by the de soldering method. It would need to be heated up and sucked off the cell or physically removed in a liquid state.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As The Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

Yea. It is Wednesday the 27th. On Monday the 25th I drank beer. Well It was after midnight the 26th I guess but yesterday I slept like 16 hours out of 24. I did not drink last night so have a lot of energy today. I just ate lunch and am about to work on the 4S-5P LIFE pack. I just got finished with surface preparation.

Not sure if anyone watched the last two videos but would like to know if I properly tinned the cells. I never saw DA. post a video. I did what the guy in the video did. I think I got it right but am doing one more video. I will try to get a closer view of the cells. I am just going to do the negative side. That is most important as a larger surface area.

The 60 watt iron I used before I got the Weller produced all cold solder joints on the negative side but did manage to stick to the positive side proving my point.



I just want to have basic soldering skills. I think I am there but nobody wants to post. The video will be up soon. I am doing one 1S - 5P bank today and then going out for a ride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws-8_xVfnqU

Yea.

I don't see how I could do it any different. Nobody wants to post. Makes no sense.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[tomjasz]

You want posts but never use the advice given. You soldering time is atrocious. These builds go down as the worst I’ve ever seen. “Weller” means zip. Just a cheap iron.

 

[latecurtis]

You want posts but never use the advice given. You soldering time is atrocious. These builds go down as the worst I’ve ever seen. “Weller” means zip. Just a cheap iron.

DA and Markz both said the Weller is a good iron.

Also 26650 cells are a larger surface area so take a little longer than 18650 cells. Was only a few seconds. 4 or 5 seconds. 18650 cells only take 2 or 3 seconds as the surface area is smaller. I had to make sure I was not cold soldering.

Also I touched the cell a couple seconds after soldering and it was not that hot. The larger tip melts the solder but don't heat up the cell like an iron with a smaller tip.

The two 6S - 5P packs I already built for 43V in series have all cell banks > 93% after sitting for about 10 days. Most cell banks are 97 to 98 %. There was a little self discharge but not a lot. The power meter also showed > 2 kilowatts output from 12S - LIFE. That was 40V to 34V - SAG.

At 57V to 48V SAG I should pull close to 3 kilowatts or more. I did further research and that voltage SAG is normal for LIFE. There is absolutely no proof that my packs are severally damaged or compromised.

Also if anyone thinks they can solder 26650 cells better than please post a video showing that. Anyone can say they are a master solder guy but where is the proof ?????????

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

I am not a soldering iron enthusiast but I'd say Weller is the bottom of the good irons, even their electronics iron is decently priced and very common. Prices of course go up from there. I just buy cheap 60W irons when they go on sale from Harbor Freight/P.A. I have a spare, they also have 40W irons, its not like tip heat up time is critical, but temperature retention and consistency are good factors to have. I had an old dual temp 220W/150W from Weller, even made my own tips out of 10awg solid core wire.

You should really have planned out and purchased a tab spot welder, like really you should have. You did buy one, but I guess you never used it. There are countless sites on microwave oven welders. You get flustered easily and dont follow advice.

 

[latecurtis]

Well I soldered 12S - LIFE. Two 6S packs.

It really does not make a lot of sense to spot weld a 4S pack. It will not make any difference running 16S if 12S is soldered and 4S is spot welded. Especially when the cells were previously soldered with the cheap 60W iron and heated up excessively. Kind of like closing the barn door after the horse is long gone. Wont make a bit of difference. 16S is only as good as the weakest link or cell bank.

Living in a third floor attic apartment spot welding with my cheap e bay welder could result in a fire if something goes wrong. I will explore spot welding once I have a safer work area after I move.

I found the correct ring connecters for 10 gauge wire. I will be getting them soon and hooking up the LTOs. Once I am finished with this 4S LIFE pack I will not need to solder until after I move and might just spot weld packs instead of solder then.

The purpose of the video was to show that I do NOT drop solder balls any more. I tin the iron , wire and cell and then solder the wire to the cell. It is to prove that my solder joints are NOT cold solder joints but proper solder joints even if the solder time is a little longer than it should be. The cell does NOT heat up that much due to the larger tip and there is minimal or no cell damage.

I was hoping DA. would watch the videos and see that at least my soldering skills have improved from before when I dropped the balls and then heated them up. Before I did not clean the tip as much or tin the tip and cell. I just dropped a solder ball and then heated it up. I skipped the tinning of the cell as well as the tip.

The solder joints I am doing now should be better than what I was doing before. That is all I was really hoping to hear. I did not say I was a master solder guy. I just was hoping for conformation that my solder skills have improved from before.

3,000W / 48V = 62.5 amps. The thing is though when the power meter hit 2 kilowatts with the Currie it was peak power NOT continuous. For > 25 mph average current was around 25 to 30 amps. My point is the wiring is good for 40 amps continuous and 60 amps < 30 seconds. Should be good for the 1,800W brushless motor and 3 kilowatt brushless motor for 40+ mph < 30 seconds.

Yea.

2 down and 2 to go to build the 4S pack for 16S - LIFEPO4 - 57V. - 48V after SAG.

You can all look for flaws that may or may not be there. The facts speak for themselves. 12S LIFE propelled the Currie to 27 and 28 mph. Also pulled > 2 kilowatts and after about two weeks standing voltage is



It is why I chose LIFEPO4 battery chemistry. 18650 cells would most likely exploded during the piss poor solder job I did with the 60 watt iron before I got the Weller. At best they would not have run at all. 26650 LIFE cells are tough and durable.

There is a little voltage drop after a few days but seems to maintain at least 96%. If the 4S pack does the same then I am good for at least 35+ mph and 16S will give me a little more range as well over 12S if I don't do full throttle too much.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Fun Times

fun times

I hate soldering, had to do my phase wires again today.
Hatred for soldering has increased in the past 2 years.
Then figured I wouldnt half ass it anymore and soldered my throttle wires, and hardwired my phases with no connectors, I am 50/50 on that, but I have enough slack to change a tire.

Time to move on to bigger and better things.
1) Reliability = no more half assing it

 

[latecurtis]

Time to move on to bigger and better things.
1) Reliability = no more half assing it

Yes.

In my case bigger and better = LTO. 20S LTO to be exact. No soldering except for the ring connecters on 10 gauge wire.

I just know for a fact I am capable of soldering cells if I need to. If the little spot welder does work after I move maybe I wont need to again.

As far as fun goes. The 1,800W brushless motor is all that. The 13S - 20Ah - 1,200W Lion battery pack did no justice to the 1,800W motor. Lucky if it could do 30 mph. 16S - LIFEPO4 should be double 1,200W or around 2,500W easily and > 1,500W continuous.
That should be a lot of fun.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

I'd say every single post your posting wattage numbers.

 

[latecurtis]

Yea.

Working on the Currie today just like the name of the post. I hooked up that 2 kilowatt brush controller a week or two ago. It pulled > 2 kilowatts but only went 27 mph. In fact it pulls > 1,000W at 15 mph. :lol:

About a month ago I hit 28 mph with the 26 amp 1,000W brush controller < 1,000W. I was lost as to why but now know after doing the research it was the voltage SAG that caused that. Probably not good for the motor to be pulling > 1,000W at 15 mph so hooking the other controller back up with a thumb throttle on the left side so can run the chain drive separate as to NOT burn out the front Bafang up hills.

I am keeping the 2 kilowatt brush controller though as there is no LVC so will get me home if my 12S LIFE battery runs low. The speed control knob actually turns the controller on and off so can hook it up to the same DC breaker as the 1,000W brush controller. I have bullets to hook up the brush motor to either controller.

The 2 kilowatt controller with the speed control knob is rated for 40 amps but tripped the DC breaker twice the last time I rode it. Also a thumb throttle is safer than the speed control knob when operating the bike as both hands are on the handle bars with the throttle.

Been up since around 7 AM. Did not drink last night. Actually did three sets of 8 dumbell presses. Have not touched them in months. Hit McDonalds for a $250 breakfast and a Coffee. I am kind of proud of myself As one sausage mc muffin and 1 hash brown. Only 550 calories. I usually eat two and a burrito so > 1,000 calories and three times the fat and cholesterol.

The GPS speedometer used up almost all my data on the Obama phone that I lost. Since I am disabled I can get a new phone thru Cricket. $50 off for being disabled. My bill will be about $5 a month unlimited talk text and data. An extra $5 gets me free HBO streaming to my TV and a Sams club membership. I will be able to use a GPS speedometer all day if I want.

I might hook up a cargo basket also for the Currie. 40 or 50 pounds in my back pack is not comfortable and too much weight in the rear. Looking at a front factory basket. NO milk crate. :lol: I might shoot a video for the hell of it. After I move I will get a triangle bag to waterproof my wires and drop out adapters and get rid of the vice grips and ratchet. :lol:

6"58 PM.

Time for a nap. I would like to get up in three to four hours , eat shrimp' scampi and drink some beer.

I managed to rewire the Currie. All I need to do to switch from the 1,000W brush controller to the 2 kilowatt is un screw one positive terminal to the DC breaker unhook the ring terminal going to the 1,000W controller and hook up the ring terminal going to the 2 kilowatt controller.

The negatives from all three controllers are connected to the male XT60 the battery plugs into. Then the two bullets from the motor which are both positive can plug into the females going to either controller. Like a 2 minute swap as long as I have a screw driver.

I also hooked up a factory front cargo basket. I got some exercise running up and down stairs getting tools. Back to work on the 4S - 5P - LIFE pack tomorrow.

I need to order a 17mm - 11T motor sprocket for the 36V - 750W gear reduction motor. It needs to go on the front of the 26" dual suspension hooked to a 48V - 1,000W brush controller. That way both motors will run 16S - LIFE. I also re arranged the bikes in the van so there is room for the 1,800W brushless motor. Five e bikes will fit in the van then. Two will run 12S - LIFE and two will run 16S - LIFE and the 20" Turbo the 13S - 20 Ah - Lion pack.

I will then have one Bafang and a 36V - 800W chain drive left over. Spare motors or another build.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

From what I gather you are just south of Akron right?

Akron Ohio has a pretty significant historical meaning to multitudes of millions of people, from all around the world actually, whether they know history or not.
I would love to go one day, but not in the winter :lol:

 

[latecurtis]

From what I gather you are just south of Akron right?

Akron Ohio has a pretty significant historical meaning to multitudes of millions of people, from all around the world actually, whether they know history or not.
I would love to go one day, but not in the winter :lol:

Yea.

I might even be moving to Akron or up that way. My wife's son lives in Barberton which is very close to Akron. He has the Schwinn and Silver Diamondback now. I still have a lot of work to do on those. Trying to get him interested in working on e bikes but he is more into cars and trucks. Everyone wants me to build them a bike so they can just ride. :lol: The thing is I do not have that much ambition. Takes me forever and ever just to build a battery pack.

Had the 3 kilowatt motor about a year or so now and still not got around to building it. The FX motor like 5 or 6 years now. Giant Roam needs lots of work as well. I am just happy what I got done with the Currie today. It was not easy at all to install that factory basket. It just did not want to fit. I had to install it higher up than I wanted so it would clear the front brakes. Had to move the levers around and left throttle and make sure the wires were not pinched. Was not much to mount it to. Not super heavy duty but good for < 30 pounds. It will do. I will show pictures tomorrow.

10/29/21

Yea.

That did not happen. laid around most of the day hung over.

Going to miss my only friends when I move. 3 years in Ohio and they are better than most people around here. They don't talk shit behind my back or flirt with my wife. They don't steal things to shoot up drugs. They are just cool to have around.

That is my fire escape. Only thing holding it up is a rotten 2 by 4. We are basically dead if there is a fire in the building.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DS9A8qevLY

Yea.

I wish I could have been a game warden or worked for the World Wildlife federation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16BVDldsncs

Probably going to do another soldering video. Last one for awhile. I want to finish the 4S - 5P pack today. I think I can do a better job NOT using the sunglass camera because I cant really see that great without them on. :lol:

Going to get the camera closer as well as myself and see what happens.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

Yea.

Been thinking things over and the final decision is the 750W gear reduction motor should go on the front of the 26" dual suspension.

I think that motor was 480 rpm. I am not 100% positive on that but 480 rpm @ 36V - 750W sounds about right.

With LIFEPO4 gearing is tricky. I do not want to over gear it , but do not want to under gear it either. I think when I ran 12S - LiPo that I did a video and hit 28 mph with a 26" wheel and 11T - 17mm - motor sprocket.

480 / 36 = 13.3 * 50 = 666.6 rpm. I really do not know what the SAG is for 12S - LiPo but at 4.17 * 12 = 50.04V. I remember back then seeing > 50V on the meter with the old LiPos. It is why I may never understand why DA. keeps saying 44V and 12S LiPo are poor performers. I remember hitting 29 mph in a video with the old 48V - 1,000W chain drive as well using 12S - LiPo.

Basically they were the best batteries I have ran so far performance wise. They ran circles around the 13S - 20 Ah - Lion pack I bought off of e bay. However it is not that simple when comparing LIFEPO4 to Lipo or Lion. Each battery chemistry has different SAG rates. It dont mean one battery type is better though as far as discharge rate.

I discovered that when the power meter read > 2 kilowatts. I know that the 1,200W - 13S - 20 Ah lion pack is limited to < 1,200W.
The BMS will make sure of that. Therefore the LIFEPO4s have the potential to smoke the 13S lion pack. I just need to run the LIFE at a higher voltage to make up for the SAG. That is where 57V and 16S come in and why I will be putting the gear reduction motor on the 26" dual suspension.

I was going with 48V after SAG for gearing but think 50V will work. so



There is my big question. Does LiPo SAG at all as I will look up the video where I did 28 mph at 50V 12S - LiPo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiWSm8K68TA&t=2s

That video proves two things.

1. The gearing in the calculator above is 100% correct.

2. 12S - 50V - LiPo does NOT SAG at all. Not even 1V. Yea. That is right as I did NOT have SLAs then. I remember , and the hoverboard packs I was running back then were all 10S - 42V - 36V.


SOOO.

I will be running the same exact gearing on the front of the 26" dual suspension. I just need to order a new 11T - 17mm dual D bore sprocket and install the motor on the front of the 26" dual suspension. I might not get 28 mph though. Not sure. I calculated that 16S - LIFEPO4 will be > 57V. It could SAG below 50V but I am still going with 50V gearing. The rear 26" hub motor will also see the same voltage as hooking both up to 16S - LIFEPO4. It should be a real beast especially up hills with > 2 kilowatts.

I am headed to Wall-Mart to put money on my card to order the new motor sprocket. I will need the 20T freewheel that is on the Currie wheel in that video.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Dropping in briefly as I got a PM from another member about a cancelled Ninja project. Thought I'd see how this thread is going. Still the same old, same old. I don't know if I'll be dropping back more often.

Although it was not the reason I dropped off this thread, I lost interest in the forum for a while as a combination of not riding my finished eBike due to work from home, and cancelling the Ninja project because I had a low side, and decided 180km/h capable, instant torque bikes might not be the best idea when I have two young kids and a body that doesn't bounce back like it used to. It's a pity, the battery has been repurposed as a farmhouse off-grid solution. A 50kw capable battery powering a 2kw inverter...

I probably will swing back at least to the office if I am asked to return to the office. Had to throw out $600 of swollen lipo, as I was pretty diligent topping the battery up for the first 6 months or so, then just forgot. However, I still have 2 x 48v LTOs that still look good. I might see how they are performing and get back into the hobby.

Oh, and LC, if you think

2. 12S - 50V - LiPo does NOT SAG at all. Not even 1V. Yea. That is right as I did NOT have SLAs then. I remember , and the hoverboard packs I was running back then were all 10S - 42V - 36V.

Then congratulations. You've broken the law of physics.

Voltage Drop = Internal Resistance x Current.

For Voltage Drop to be zero, either you have no internal resistance, or you have no current.

 

[latecurtis]

Then congratulations. You've broken the law of physics.

Voltage Drop = Internal Resistance x Current.

For Voltage Drop to be zero, either you have no internal resistance, or you have no current.

Glad to see your post. I hope you do drop in more often. I was wondering what happened.

Not sure. Maybe less than a volt then. SAG is different for each battery chemistry. I am trying to learn that now.

I see you mentioned you run LTO. I bought 24 - LISHEN - 18Ah - LTO. Was thinking about hooking 20 of them in series to that old hub motor you sent me. I had to get a new rim for it as cracked the rim it came with 5 or 6 years back when I hit a section of broken road riding in the dark.

I also re wired it as some sensor wires were damaged. I had it all apart and rewired it from inside and put it back together. It ran ok but then decided to order a 48 to 60V sensor less Greentime controller for the hell of it. 35 or 38A not sure. I live 3rd floor so is in my van. I put it on the back of a 26" dual suspension with a Bafang up front.

I will be removing the Bafang to put a 36V - 750W chain drive and run both motors with 57V - LIFE first and thinking 54V -20S - LTO and then two 13S - Lion - 90 amp each power modules DA. recommended. I want to see which of the three work best.

I hope you can drop in now and then and check it out. I also bought a 3 kilowatt brushless motor and 60V - 70 amp controller. That will be my winter project. Going on a Vintage Haro V3.

Thanks for posting and glad to hear from you SUNDER.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

Yea.

I hope SUNDER will post again. I am glad to see he is doing ok. He was here for the first few pages of this post about 6 or 7 years ago now. He sent me my first hub motor.

I just finished my final soldering video for awhile. I will probably solder again but not any time soon. After I finish the pack I will be running the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor and then the 26" dual suspension.

Here is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGYHLPv7pDM

Hopefully by this time tomorrow the 4S - 5P - pack will be on the charger.

I had to balance charge at 6S yesterday as one 6S pack was at 99 to 98% and the other 90% to 96%. I guess I will go ahaed and order two 6S active balancers and a 4S active balancer. That way I can just charge and let the balancers do the balancing automatically.

For my 36V - e bikes I have my 10 amp 43.6V charger and when I run 48V e bikes my 54.6V - 15 amp charger,

54.6 / 16 = 3.4V. That will be for out on the road when I need to re charge to get home. At home I will properly charge with the 12S - 43.8V and the 4S with my 6S - LiPo charger on 4S balance in LIFE mode.

Also for the Currie I will be ordering a 60V DC breaker for that 40 amp brush controller as it tripped the breaker twice last time I run it. That is why I hooked the wimpy 26 amp brush controller back up. Also with a separate DC breaker for the 40 amp brush controller.

There is the first video with the Currie and 26 amp brush controller and Bafang up front.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKPkSO-0riU&t=291s

I later hooked the 2 kilowatt controller and went the same route.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gGcslyHQnE&t=537s

To switch controllers all I will have to do is unhook the bullet connecters connected to the two motor wires from the 26 amp brush controller and plug them in to the 40 amp brush controller. I wont have to unscrew the terminal from the DC breaker.



Yea.

My soldering skills are on point now and will be working on mounting batteries , controllers and building the LTO packs.

Also the 26" dual suspension. I ordered the 11T - 17mm dual D bore motor sprocket for the 36V - 750W gear reduction motor. It will go on the front of the bike with a 48V - 1,000W controller. It will be a beast.


11/2/21

Yea. I got woke up by code enforcement. We got 30 more days. The landlord will be getting a big fine and in 30 days criminal charges if nothing is done. I am not paying rent so will save my money.

I just did a video on the last 1S - 5P pack. I will soon be combining for 4S - 5P so can do 16S - 5P.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iuqivSjWdw

The videos clearly show that I am a master battery builder now. My method is way better than any factory spot weld deal. It will easily push 40 amps continuous and 60 amps peak. Probably a lot more. Those numbers are modest. Looking at between 2 and 3 kilowatts at 16S. Remember I already hit 2+ kilowatts at 12S.



Looking at ordering two - 6S active balancers and a 4S. Then It will be simple plug and play. I wont have to be bothered balance charging or hooking up external balancers.

Yes. Everyone here on ES will have to admit I Latecurtis am a genius. The power meter and GPS speedometer will soon prove that when I shoot a video running 16S - LIFEPO4. > 2,500W and > 30 mph.

I really like these. A lot more capacity.

https://batteryhookup.com/products/100-brand-new-lifep04-32650-3-2v-6000mah-cells



Yea. Just under $300 for 90 cells.

18 * 3.6V = 64.8V. Should be less SAG also as higher capacity cells. 5P = 30 AH. The LIFE packs I just built are < 20 AH.

The K2 energy cells I bought are out of balance as been sitting on a shelf at a military compound for years and years. They might be military grade but are ancient. I now know it is not my building methods.

If I do order those I will build them exactly like I just did the 4S - 5P pack. I admit I cut a few corners on the two 6S - 5P packs. There were a few cell banks I did not solder like I did the 4S - 5P pack. I just covered with the liquid tape. I regret that but am not tearing the 6S packs apart. It could be the cause of a little voltage loss but the active balancers I ordered will make those packs absolutely perfect and good for at least 2,000 cycles.

Yea.

I really want to order 90 of those bad boys and build me a 18S - 64V pack.


Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Yeah seems to be about the norm
"same old, same old"

Things are picking up again :thumb:
Almost back to normal, almost. How do I know this, well I dont really. I was on the train and bus at rush hour and its packed. I dont think working from home will kick off like the analyst say it will. Companies will still want a physical location so it might be a combination, but how do the companies track your work effort. Thats why I am hesitant to buy REIT ETF's at the moment, though I might go for banking.

Still the same old, same old. I don't know if I'll be dropping back more often.

Although it was not the reason I dropped off this thread, I lost interest in the forum for a while as a combination of not riding my finished eBike due to work from home, and cancelling the Ninja project because I had a low side, and decided 180km/h capable, instant torque bikes might not be the best idea when I have two young kids and a body that doesn't bounce back like it used to. It's a pity, the battery has been repurposed as a farmhouse off-grid solution. A 50kw capable battery powering a 2kw inverter...