new eZip motor

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latecurtis said:
:shock: The diagram I just posted has to be opened up but is probably the last of that type of fork motor mount. I don't see any way of improving it any further. I admit it does stick out like a sore thumb however it will not interfere with the front brakes. Also the rear mount DA posted looks like it would interfere with the rear brakes.
Click to expand...
No rear brakes.
Rear brakes are minimally effective, at best.
Use fixed sprocket, release throttle and motor will act as brakes. Most effective for deceleration from high speeds and for long downhill runs ... will never overheat or wear out.
(Spoke mounted sprocket ... as used by most gas motor add-ons)

With maximum deceleration rear brakes contribute nearly nothing!
Near the point of tipping, ~ 100% of weight and stopping power is on the front tire

Most notably with the 20"er ...
With the high center of gravity and the short wheelbase ...
Even the best rear brakes will be nearly useless!
Of course, ... good front brakes are liable to put you on your nose!
 
DrkAngel said:
latecurtis said:
:shock: The diagram I just posted has to be opened up but is probably the last of that type of fork motor mount. I don't see any way of improving it any further. I admit it does stick out like a sore thumb however it will not interfere with the front brakes. Also the rear mount DA posted looks like it would interfere with the rear brakes.
Click to expand...
No rear brakes.
Rear brakes are minimally effective, at best.
Use fixed sprocket, release throttle and motor will act as brakes. Most effective for deceleration from high speeds and for long downhill runs ... will never overheat or wear out.
(Spoke mounted sprocket ... as used by most gas motor add-ons)

With maximum deceleration rear brakes contribute nearly nothing!
Near the point of tipping, ~ 100% of weight and stopping power is on the front tire

Most notably with the 20"er ...
With the high center of gravity and the short wheelbase ...
Even the best rear brakes will be nearly useless!
Of course, ... good front brakes are liable to put you on your nose!
Click to expand...
Take bike with good brakes.
At same location, get up to top speed.
At same point, apply best braking, front only vs rear only vs front-rear together.
Compare stopping distances.

Point: skidding rear tire lengthens stopping distance ... compared to precision application
 
DrkAngel said:
DrkAngel said:
latecurtis said:
:shock: The diagram I just posted has to be opened up but is probably the last of that type of fork motor mount. I don't see any way of improving it any further. I admit it does stick out like a sore thumb however it will not interfere with the front brakes. Also the rear mount DA posted looks like it would interfere with the rear brakes.
Click to expand...
No rear brakes.
Rear brakes are minimally effective, at best.
Use fixed sprocket, release throttle and motor will act as brakes. Most effective for deceleration from high speeds and for long downhill runs ... will never overheat or wear out.
(Spoke mounted sprocket ... as used by most gas motor add-ons)

With maximum deceleration rear brakes contribute nearly nothing!
Near the point of tipping, ~ 100% of weight and stopping power is on the front tire

Most notably with the 20"er ...
With the high center of gravity and the short wheelbase ...
Even the best rear brakes will be nearly useless!
Of course, ... good front brakes are liable to put you on your nose!
Click to expand...
Take bike with good brakes.
At same location, get up to top speed.
At same point, apply best braking, front only vs rear only vs front-rear together.
Compare stopping distances.

Point: skidding rear tire lengthens stopping distance ... compared to precision application
Click to expand...
So, all we need is ABS. Just like a car!
I hate sliding the rear, wears out too fast and doesn't stop as well as frt and rear.

Dan
 
As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns.
8/26

When I was riding the Schwinn Today I noticed the front brakes were not stopping the bike. The back brakes were. It is a minor adjustment and has probably been like that awhile. I am just so used to not having front brakes for so many years I did not really notice.

It is hard to believe that front brakes are 70% of the stopping power but I will take DAs word for it. Randy was busy working on a different car today and then took off with the guy that scraps who I got the two small motors from to do some job.

I was not happy, but that guy is hooking me up with a little work this week end. I will make enough money to get a 48V controller and throttle if the 36V one wont work. Also the screw on sprocket if the bolt on deal dont work.

I checked out the bed frame and I could make brackets out of it but was really looking for something wider. Also I would have to buy a saws all blade for $8. I could get at least two feet of flat steel at the depot for that. However the day is not a total loss. I read what DA said about the brackets in my diagram sticking out like a sore thumb and I agree. I would probably be better off with a 500W MY1020 motor as it is shorter and running it at 28.8V Lipo. It would be close to 600W go 20mph and probably make it up hills.

The thing is I dont have 4s Lipos or a 500W motor. I have the 1,000W motor and three 12Ah SLAs and 44.4V Lipos. Also DAs idea of the rear mount means no rear brakes only front. If I had to choose it would be the rear brakes as thats what I am used to. It is a matter of preference. DA also said the diagram looked flimsy. I wish to clear that up. I stated I was planning on using 1/4" steel. The day did not turn out to be a total loss.

The picture shows the thickness and obvious strength. It is not quite 1/4" but bigger than 1/8" It is the exact width I was looking for though. I found that on my way home. I will be cutting that up with my hack saw and drilling the slots like in the diagram I posted today. I should not need much more. Maby a 3 foot piece not quite as wide but at least as thick for the stabilizer braces that go at about a 35 degree angle. Also some new jigsaw blades for metal.

My hack saw is at Randys and so is my bike and the drill. I am too tired anyway as I have been up since 8AM and still went to the gym. What I got now should do the supports for the fork and the slots I plan on cutting out to adjust the motor from left to right and up and down for taking off the wheel for repairs when neccessary.
I am curious about something though. If the deal with the Izip for $50 for that silver rear hub motor does not happen where would you guys mount a non hub motor on the Magna. It cannot comprimise the front or rear brakes. Also I dont want it on the front as I seriouslly doubt the Currie rear wheel would fit on the front. It has to go in the back somewhere. Please let me know if you guys have any ideas.I already posted a picture of the bike and want to put a brushless motor on it like the one Skalabala got.
8/27
It is noon. I am drinking coffee. I was thinking about the Magna and also this bike I saw. It is a 20" but the seat and handelbars are high. It is easy to pedal. I talked to the guy and he folded the bike in half. He also said it had a motor on it. It was also $1200. I am not sure what happened to the motor However it got me thinking.
Doug said the Magna is a cheap name brand like a Next. However I like the Magna as it has awsome brakes,everything works and it looks fairly new. I think the reason I hate Next is the name. It is like the skip button on an old DVD player. It makes me want to skip over that name brand.

The Magna is really easy to carry up stairs as I think it is 30lbs or less. The My1020 motor is at least 15lbs if not a little more. If they can make a bike that folds in half then there should be a way to make a setup where you can remove a motor and install one just as easy. I would be able to have a choice of which motor to run depending where I am going and what I am doing.

If anyone has done anything similar to this please let me know. If you look close at the last fork motor desighn there are only 4 bolts holding the motor to the adjustable brackets. If they made wing nuts large enough a motor could be removed in a couple minutes. The downside of that of course would be someone could steal the motor. There would have to be a way of locking it also. Here is a picture of the Magna close up with better light. If anyone has an idea please let me know.
Magna2 shows plenty of room for an install behind the forks however the moror would need to sit back far enough that the chain would clear the front brake assembley. Also The forks dont look wide enough for a hub motor or a hub with a freewheel. The rear looks like the only hope but I cant imagine how. There could be a way to build off the seat post but again it would have to sit back far enough so the chain would clear the rear brake assembley.

8/28 unbeleavable
Hard to imagine how it came to this! I called the guy I got the small motors from to talk to Randy to find out if he was going to instal the MY1020 motor into the dimond back. Not any time soon was the answer but if you work for us for about 5 hours you wont be worried about it. I called his bluff and after he picked me up he showed me what I was working for. I painted 4 closets. Here is my pay for the day.

I took it around the corner to show Douge and he was jelous as hell. He reminded me of a kid who wanted a new train set for Christmas but got coal in his stocking when I got the set. To be honest Doug is not very mature. Neither am I for that matter. It was hard to resist the urge to start jumping up and down when we put it in the truck.

Doug said the forks were his and he paid the guy $100 for a paint job. He said dont get attached to it as he was going to wrap the forks around the guys neck that sold it. I knew he was lying as the paint job was far from fresh. He called me later after he cooled off and said he was glad I got it instead of somebody else. He said he would help me put a motor on it.

Also it has the name of the bike shop on it. Freemans Bridge sports. It has rear brakes only. Any idea how to put front brakes on it? I will be contacting LiveForPhysics to see how fast I can safly build it to go. That will be on my Motors over 10 killowatt post. I know he wont want to read thru over 80 pages so I will be precise and to the point. How would you guys convert it to electric. It dont look like a hub motor will fit on it. Also there is no place for a sprocket on the back. Please help me! Here are the pics. Thanks.

LC. out.
 
Sorry did not have time for spell check. Library closing. got to go. tomorrow. Thanks



LC. out
 
Rear brakes only ...
is slightly more effective than dragging your feet. ... :?
 
DrkAngel said:
Rear brakes only ...
is slightly more effective than dragging your feet. ... :?
Click to expand...
"We tried braking with both brakes and with the front brake alone, and consistently found that if we focused all our attention on the front brake, we achieved much shorter stopping distances.
rear_brake
When we braked with the rear brake only, the stopping distance was more than three times as long. In fact, Hahn overshot the stop sign and went into the road at the bottom of the hill (above). This was despite Hahn modulating his rear brake carefully to keep it below the lockup point as much as possible. Skidding the wheel would have increased the stopping distance further." - How to Brake on a Bicycle

" Maximum Deceleration--Emergency Stops
The fastest that you can stop any bike of normal wheelbase is to apply the front brake so hard that the rear wheel is just about to lift off the ground. In this situation, the rear wheel cannot contribute to stopping power, since it has no traction. ... The rear brake is O.K. for situations where traction is poor, or for when your front tire blows, but for stopping on dry pavement, the front brake alone provides the maximum stopping power, both in theory and in practice. " - Braking and Turning Your Bicycle - Sheldon Brown
 
Bolting 1/4" steel brackets to 1/16" tubing forks ... doesn't instill me with much confidence ... ?

file.php
 
DrkAngel said:
The rear brake is O.K. for situations where traction is poor, or for when your front tire blows, but for stopping on dry pavement, the front brake alone provides the maximum stopping power, both in theory and in practice. " - Braking and Turning Your Bicycle - Sheldon Brown
Click to expand...
Interesting. My understanding was that the rear brake was primarily for slowing down the bike approaching corners to get a more neutral feel. Braking on the front wheel while leaned in can cause you you have unpredictable levels of turning

That said. I learned that in motor cycle school. Whether its true for push or elevtric bikes with a different weighting, speed, etc is questionable.
 
"Braking technique
There are several techniques for efficient braking on a standard, two-brake bicycle. The one most commonly taught is the 25-75 technique. This method entails supplying 75% of the stopping power to the front brake, and about 25% of the power to the rear. Since the bicycle's deceleration causes a transfer of weight to the front wheel, there is much more traction on the front wheel. Therefore, the rear brake can exert less braking force than on the front before the rear wheel starts skidding. For a more-detailed analysis, see bicycle and motorcycle dynamics." - Wikipedia

"In an Emergency, It’s the Front Brake that Matters Most
Because of “load transfer” the front brakes of cars, motorcycles and bicycles provide over 80% of emergency stopping power. " - Santana..

"Effective use of a bicycle brake is highly counter-intuitive. The casual rider will at first avoid using the front brake, due to the unsettling feeling of "toppling up", or fear of being sent flying over the handlebars.
However, the most effective technique for powerful stopping is to use the front brake almost exclusively." - Braking technique
 
You can argue all you want about front/rear braking.
I guarantee rear brakes only are a way to die.
If that;s all you have is all you have. Be sure to anticipate the guy stepping of the curb or that truck coming out of an alley. As long as you can guess when that is going to happen, then what the hell you better by a lottery ticket!

We all can preach all we want about brakes. Don't need brakes on a car, Fred Flintstone use his feet! Why not in this case?
LC is going to do what he is going to do no matter what we argue about or suggest.

YES HE/WE should have frt and rear brakes! That chopper bike he just scored doesn't have any real kind of brakes that will work. But then again it was ok for the 5 to 10 mph it could do with a 90lb rider.

Brakes or no brakes who cares anyway, it's only going to BREAK any way.
Hit a car or a wall, it's going to stop!

Dan

Yes guys we are all correct. Any powered bike needs BRAKES. The heavier or faster the better they need to be. I wonder I Luke has brakes on the DEATH BIKE :mrgreen:
 
As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns 8/29

I did not really have time to read over the posts today. I did glance at them though. I noticed brakes were the topic of conversation. I am a little confused as I thought I said that I do want brakes on the 20" bike. Randy wanted to install the motor where the front brakes are supposed to be and where the two motors were.

I decided to do the low fork motor mount so nothing could interfere with the front brakes. I showed Randy the latest diagram with the slots for adjustment of the motor and he liked the idea. However due to him working every day nothing is getting done. Where we tested the motor during two unsuccessful attempts the street is a dead end with very little traffic and it is flat.

I agree 100% on the brake issue. However first I need to get the motor permanently installed. DA. Mentioned a rear mount which would be fine if I had the hub I need to be able to pedal and have a motor sprocket in the rear. I did not give up on pedaling. I still don’t have a link for that rear wheel. I don’t know how to build a wheel and need a specific link to order a rear wheel which will work.
That is why I am sticking with the lower fork mount for the MY1020 motor. I can have front and rear brakes. Obviously I won’t be building the chopper any time soon as it is huge. I am saving it for when I get a first floor apartment or a house. It may be awhile before I do anything with that.

Like I said earlier the front brakes on the Schwinn need adjusting. The rear brakes stop the bike. I don’t go down any major hills either but still plan on fixing the front brakes on that too. As far as the chopper goes please tell me how I would put front brakes on it. I don’t have a clue. I just want to get the 20" blue Diamond Back running with the fork motor and front and rear brakes. I have had the motor for a while now and nothing is getting done. I need the bike to be finished. Thanks.

LC. out.
 
Be sure to anticipate the guy stepping of the curb or that truck coming out of an alley. As long as you can guess when that is going to happen, then what the hell you better by a lottery ticket!
Click to expand...

Like I said about a dozen times I usually travel the same route over and over. I know where the intersections are. I know where the heavy traffic is. I don't go down any major hills. Also most of the time I go between 5 and 10mph. Only when I can see several blocks ahead and there are no intersections do I operate the bike at 3/4 or full throttle. It is a natural instinct at this point in time to apply the rear brakes long before I intend on stopping. The rear brakes slow down the bike gradually. I understand it and avoid emergency stops.

Saying that I intend on getting good quality brakes on the front and rear so I can go down steep hills I would normally avoid. The motor on the 20" Diamond Back needs to be installed. Next week I will have money to order a 62 tooth screw on sprocket in case the current bolt on set up fails. There is a good possibility it will. It is bolted to the hub where the spokes go but below them. Obviously this compromises the integrity of the hub so it is temporary.

I will have pictures of exactly what I am doing. I don't want to take the good brakes off the Magna so I intend on ordering good quality front and rear brakes brand new off of E bay and am shopping for them now. If you guys want to help me please post a link for brakes you would choose for safety if it were your bike. My knowledge on brake design and quality is very limited so instead of explaining the importance of front brakes over and over please post a link so I can order them next week. Thanks.

LC. out.
 
I can order cantilever brakes but will they fit? I don't know. I don't know if I need U brakes or V brakes. I just saw that they make hydraulic brakes for bikes but are $499. I will need something custom for the chopper but am just concerned with the 20" bike for now.
 
E bay is freezing up on me. There is trouble with the library computers as Microsoft has been attempting to force an upgrade to windows 10. They don't want it and intend on keeping 7 and I don't blame them. Maybe DA would know how to fix it. If so I will have the library contact him.

I will take some pictures of the 20" Diamond Back today and post them Monday as I have no clue if it is V brakes or U brakes I need. The 20" Diamond Back will be the only bike I will be riding until I move to a first floor apartment once I get it running so I intend on getting it fully functional with a front basket and that variable 36 to 48V controller so I can use the Lipo packs when traveling over 3 miles round trip. Any help in choosing quality brakes will be greatly appreciated. I don't want cheap Wall-Mart levers and cables. I am looking for brakes that need the least amount of adjustments and reliability. Thanks.

LC. out.
 
I meat good reliability not the least reliability.
 
Yes there are good brakes and bad brakes BUT, you can put the best brakes on and if they aren't installed/adjusted properly they are the same as the shitty ones adjusted.
how can you expect Randy to put off his job making money for a favor to a friend?

I walk around MY house that I have lived in for 35 years and shit still happens. A dog walks in front of me and trips me. The wife opens a door that I didn't expect, If I only had decent brakes I would of missed the totally unexpected things that I totally didn't expect.
SO DON"T TAKE THE UNEXPECTED to avoid you because you didn't expect it. As they say SHIT HAPPENS!!!

Dan
That's a nice chopper want to trade for some new 4s hard packs or a Multistars?
 
For the 3rd, maybe 4th+, time ...
Look into the spoke mount sprocket, such are as used with the gas bike kits.
No dbl freewheel hub needed!!!
 
DrkAngel said:
Kit for spoke mount sprocket - ≥ $6.95 delivered!
Click to expand...
28 -56T 410 sprocket kits available.

spoke mount sprocket..jpg

Looks to a nice project item.
MY1016z3, MY1018z or XYD-16, can use 9 - 15T fixed drive sprockets
With freewheel adapter, can use 12-24T freewheel sprockets for a great range of speed-torque applications.
 
DrkAngel said:
DrkAngel said:
Kit for spoke mount sprocket - ≥ $6.95 delivered!
Click to expand...
28 -56T 410 sprocket kits available.



Looks to a nice project item.
MY1016z3, MY1018z or XYD-16, can use 9 - 15T fixed drive sprockets
With freewheel adapter, can use 12-24T freewheel sprockets for a great range of speed-torque applications.
Click to expand...

Figured up a few possible drive ratios - 26" wheels:

24V Unite gear reduction motors:
At 24V
9T - 28T = 11.2 mph
9T - 40T = 8 mph
9T - 56T = 5.6 mph

At 36V
9T - 28T = 16.8 mph
9T - 40T = 12 mph
9T - 56T = 8.4 mph

At 24V
13T - 28T = 16 mph
13T - 40T = 11.5 mph
13T - 56T = 8 mph

At 36V
13T - 28T = 24 mph
13T - 40T = 17.25 mph
13T - 56T = 12 mph

At 24V
18T - 28T = 22.4 mph
18T - 40T = 16mph
18T - 56T = 11.2 mph

At 36V
18T - 28T = 33.6 mph
18T - 40T = 24 mph
18T - 56T = 16.8 mph

Ideal item for the Schwinn Meridian Trike.
Apply to non pedal driven rear wheel for assist, better traction and motor supplied deceleration.
One for each rear wheel! ... for hills, loads and hefties?
 
DrkAngel said:
DrkAngel said:
Kit for spoke mount sprocket - ≥ $6.95 delivered!
Click to expand...
28 -56T 410 sprocket kits available.



Looks to a nice project item.
MY1016z3, MY1018z or XYD-16, can use 9 - 15T fixed drive sprockets
With freewheel adapter, can use 12-24T freewheel sprockets for a great range of speed-torque applications.
Click to expand...
Motor drive sprockets: 9, 11, 13, 15
Motor drive freewheels: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24 +?
Spoke mount (9 hole) sprockets: 28, 31, 32, 36, 38, 40, 41, 44, 48, 56,

Larger sprockets available if you feel capable of drilling-machining.

How to Install Motorized Bike Rear Sprocket Assembly on 26" Wheel
 
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