new eZip motor

[Sunder]

Ye gads.

There is no way I would put one of those on anything that resembled a push bike. I've been 120km/h (75mph) on a CBR250RR (see below). Full fairings, sports position to lower wind pushing on you, rear seat stops you being pushed back too far, and I'm in full leathers full face helmet, and back protector.

It's the kind of speed where if you accidentally leave your visor down, your eyes sting, and if you turn your head so that the wind catches in your helmet, your neck can be twisted pretty easily. (I.e. don't go those speeds with your visor open).

That thing is designed for 120km/h+ and it's still pretty scary. But look at it. Look at the width of the tyres. Look at the spokes and how thick and how many of them there are. Look at the thickness of the rim. Look at the suspension. Look at its thickness and travel Look at the rear swing arm. Look at its solidness and thickness. Look at those brakes. Look at the size of the disc and the fact that its drilled to improve performance. Look at the size of the calipers. Look at how everything is tucked in, so you can go knee down (the faster you go, the more you have to lean to restrict your radius). If you tried that on a pushbike, the pedals will catch the ground and you'd go high-side.

If your bike doesn't look like that, you'd be insane to install that motor on it.

 

[latecurtis]

Yea. You got some good points. Liveforphysics would not be scared to put it on a 20" bike though. He has been doing it for years. He goes 150mph at the Laguna and passes Ninjas and KX 1,000s and everything else. He even beat a Tesla. How come he can do it and I cant?

Why don't I get a new brushless controller for the Schwinn with the hub kit. 60V should be good. Will it handle 72V. I have six 10AH SLAs.
60V will be enough. I don't need to go faster than 33 mph anyway and 60V to that motor should do the trick. Since I have six SLAs though as long as the motor can handle it why not?

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. 60V. or 72V


Lets take a vote.

Brakes are really good on this bike. I can get Doug to do fine adjustments if necessary.

We will all vote on this. The voting process is 24 hours from 6 AM. eastern US time. Not sure how it works in Australia. We will make it 6 AM Australia time.

Also Sunders vote counts as two votes as he sent me the motor. I really don't want to blow it up. He will know the limitations on it better than me.

Also people who never posted here they cant vote. Except LiveForPhysics. I am not sure if he posted or not but have in other posts as he sent messages and so did I. He said he was gonna hook me up with a zero motor awhile back. He wasnt kidding. I got zero motor. :lol: :lol: He is still a legend though. Better than Evil Knievel in my book.

It seems like the best way to go for speed. It wont be a daily commuter. It is not now anyway so cost wise it would be logical. I don't run SLA anymore for daily commute I run 22V Lipo. It wont happen immediately anyway as I need to finish the Diamondback. I will then be running four of the SLAs maybe daily. Especially if the fuse keeps blowing due to this chain driven motor.

A better option for the motor and only option I could afford is three 10.0 Lipo packs in series. The thing is though I wont need a bike to go fast all the time. Since I wont use it that much why spend all that money on 10.0 AH packs. It will be cheaper to beat up SLAs. Also safer. Obviously the best choice would be a 60V 20AH LIFEPO4. However. That is if it were a daily commuter. Not to go out and see how fast it will go and then come home. I can take it out in the country where my brother lives and pass Amish horse and wagons. A rear camera to see the looks on their faces. Please vote when you can. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Yea. You got some good points. Liveforphysics would not be scared to put it on a 20" bike though. He has been doing it for years. He goes 150mph at the Laguna and passes Ninjas and KX 1,000s and everything else. He even beat a Tesla. How come he can do it and I cant?

Ummm ...
You do understand there is a bit of difference between between a custom built super heavy duty frame with a motorcycle front end with dual front disc brakes that happens to use a 20" motorcycle tire ... and your rejected (thrown out) 20" cheapo kiddie bike?

 

[latecurtis]

OK. I see that now. I am not sure why I did not notice it.

I just got to figure out exactly what pieces I will need and get my brother in law the welder to accomplish it. He will do it all at once so I know what or exact pieces required for say 60 mph. Unless is the same price for 60 mph as it is for say 120 mph. I really don't know what is required. I will probably throw him $50 to get it done and will have a 60 mph bike with my favorite crown motor.


Doug said $160 per side for hydraulic. rear or front? I don't want to do both. I don't want to flip over at 55 mph either. I don't know what hydrolic will do. Disk is the best I ever did on a bike. I think it was a Gary Fisher.

Sounds like a lot of money. I think it will be a lot cheaper to just order a 60V controller and call it a day. I still get to go 30 mph but will have an extra battery to power some good onboard tunes. Something to listen to when I got to pedal it home when the SLAs DIE!!!

I could get a 24V brushless controller too and put the same plugs on both controllers and simply unhook the 60V and hook up the 24V just to get it home. I got to find someone who likes to solder and throw him some beer or something. I really don't like doing it. I got to work on a good emergency e bike kit also. So far the best I did was an 80 amp fuse and roll of electrical tape in my pocket. I tried taping it in the rain and the dark and failed miserably. The bike still runs though and I have a second controller on the way. If the Diamondback and the current 20" build prove to be reliable why not make the Schwinn 60V. That is my vote. Anybody for 72? :lol: Thanks.



LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Yea. You got some good points. Liveforphysics would not be scared to put it on a 20" bike though. He has been doing it for years. He goes 150mph at the Laguna and passes Ninjas and KX 1,000s and everything else. He even beat a Tesla. How come he can do it and I cant?

Ummm ...
You do understand there is a bit of difference between between a custom built super heavy duty frame with a motorcycle front end with dual front disc brakes that happens to use a 20" motorcycle tire ... and your rejected (thrown out) 20" cheapo kiddie bike?

Ha, Was looking for a photo of that bike.

Glad you found it.

 

[DrkAngel]

Liveforphysics would not be scared to put it on a 20" bike though. He has been doing it for years. He goes 150mph at the Laguna and passes Ninjas and KX 1,000s and everything else. He even beat a Tesla. How come he can do it and I cant?

Ummm ...
You do understand there is a bit of difference between between a custom built super heavy duty frame with a motorcycle front end with dual front disc brakes that happens to use a 20" motorcycle tire ... and your rejected (thrown out) 20" cheapo kiddie bike?

OK. I see that now. I am not sure why I did not notice it.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Beer goggles! ... ?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[latecurtis]

yea definitely beer googles.

I am going to put the torque arms on today. solder the fuse, charge the 16 AH Lipos and install the rear rack on the Diamond Back.

I will also need to charge at least four of the SLAs. Tomorrow I will go to Home Depot and get the supports for the back rack on the Diamondback. Friday I will be taking it for a test run.

I have a good idea. Looking at the heavy duty frame brought my mind back to reality. When I was down to the river a few days ago this guy AL. pulled up with his new bike he got off line. 26" or larger heavy duty all disk factory rack on the front and fat tires. He said he ordered it online but I could not make out the name brand. He paid $600 or $700 though for the bike. It was definitely not a kids bike. It could have been larger than 26" Like 700C maybe. I am not sure Al is a very big guy. He is about 6 feet 1 and at least 260 lbs. He would not buy a cheap bike and am sure just by looking at it that it could handle a 60 mph hub motor. I even told him that he could put a 60 mph motor on it. I was even thinking about the crown motor. He said he don't need to go that fast. He said he needs to pedal for exercise.

All I know is I am not building any 20" bike to go faster than 26 mph@ 36V. That is the limit I am setting for 20" bikes that I build.

When I do decide to get serious and order the Crown hub motor it will be a bike like Als bike. I will find out the name brand and post the specs before I order it.

I cant find the bike like AL had but did find this.

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=72554036

It is not necessarily THE bike I am going to order when I order the Crown hub motor but am posting it as it meets MY new minimum requirements for the 60 mph Crown hub motor.

My plan is to find out what brand Al's bike is and compare the specs to that bike. Also I will look at used Cannondale and Haro 26" mountain bikes. Disk brakes front and rear must happen I wont compromise on that. I just checked and the Crown motor is for a 26" wheel.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. The torque arms.

The washer you cut is not flat inside like the C-washers in the pic. The flats will help the shoulders on the axle to put pressure on the fork flats. just because the video doesn't show them use at least the one on the inside to help the wires from being cut.
Did you watch the video DA posted? Also have you checked the rotation direction of the motor as listed?
Might be a dumb question but is the round shoulder that the wires come out from pushed all the way into the hub motor. In some motors they can move out and cut the wires also.
There are more videos than you have posted.

I don't know. I looked for the video. Did not find it.

I will post pics of the install and wont tighten the nuts down all the way until one of you guys looks at them and decides to post.

What I don't like about the C washers that came with the kit is the one side is not flat but seems to be rounded. See pic 1. The washer on the right. I thought about it so faced the smooth side in toward the motor so the flat side would be towards the forks. I used both washers. see pic 2.

Pic 3 and 4 show the torque arm installed.

The video I watched shows the torque arm installed between the hub motor and the fork. Not on the outside of the fork. That type of torque arm did not have the U washers though. This one does. I sure hope my way will work but am waiting until someone posts before I put the muffler clamp on and torque down the axle nut.

Sorry if I am dumb on this but is only my second time doing torque arms. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DAND214]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. The torque arms.

The washer you cut is not flat inside like the C-washers in the pic. The flats will help the shoulders on the axle to put pressure on the fork flats. just because the video doesn't show them use at least the one on the inside to help the wires from being cut.
Did you watch the video DA posted? Also have you checked the rotation direction of the motor as listed?
Might be a dumb question but is the round shoulder that the wires come out from pushed all the way into the hub motor. In some motors they can move out and cut the wires also.
There are more videos than you have posted.

I don't know. I looked for the video. Did not find it.

I will post pics of the install ans wont tighten the nuts down all the way until one of you guys looks at them and decides to post.

Sorry LC it wasn't a video but written instructions https://www.aotema.com/docs/Motor-Kit-Installation-Instructions-Rev2.3.html

Did you see the difference with the C washer and yours?

I think you should use only 1 on each side of the motor
or 1 with wires and the tabbed one on the other side.
I sure hope that nut is just started on the axle since it's not half way on the axle. That is why just 1 c washer. It also looks like you spread the fork a bit to get the motor in?

DO NOT WASTE YOU MONEY WITH THE CROWN from HPC(EBAY)$860? You can get a complete kit from EBIKES.COM http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/conversion-kits/crystalyte-crown/rear-crown-kit.htmlfor almost the same price.

Crystalyte motors are over rated and all over priced especially compared to the new stuff out now. Yes they are fast but not very reliable. New hubs out now are better and stronger for less money.

As for your now 60mph ride. I don't care which bicycle you buy, they are all not safe at any speed over 30mph. Tires are junk, wheels are junk, most cases brakes are junk, suspension fork in most cases is junk and in most cases the frame isn't strong enough.
that leaving the handle bars and the seat. those I would ok for the speed but I wouldn't like the ride.

So you finally got to see why LFP was able to say 20". You didn't really think he used a 20" bmx bike did you? Motorcycle tires, fork and brakes. Did you see the sprocket on that thing, that was as big as the bmx wheels.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

Yes I did see it and also yes to what you said about any bike is not safe at that speed. As I said before I really need to get a truck and also move to a different place before even thinking about building a fast bike. Honestly I would probably be too scared to go over 45 mph anyway so when I do get a heavy duty 26" mountain bike with disk brakes and full suspension steel or better frame the hub kit will be about 2,500W and geared for 45 mph. NOT 6 kilowatts geared for 60 mph. It would also save money on batteries as 60 mph batteries got to go for at least $600 where two 16.0 or 20.0 6s packs about $300.

 

[latecurtis]

 

[latecurtis]

As you can see I had no choice but to add the two washers outside the fork as the top picture is very crooked The nut on the torque arm wont clear the inside of the fork without the two washers for the extra space.

I guess it is time for the other side. I just hope I have two more large washers. If so I am installing the clamps and tightening everything down.

 

[marcelo56]

http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/torque-arms.html

 

[latecurtis]

By turning the bolt around I was able to loose one washer. It looks like about 1/16" off though but should be ok once tightened down. I also only needed one of the U washers to protect the wires instead of two. Better idea as only one smooth side to deal with whitch is facing in toward the motor.

 

[latecurtis]

Everything is really super tight now. The hose clamps and the axle nuts. The nuts and axle threads are super heavy duty. The wrench is 13/16 that fits the nuts and 10" long and I cranked down with almost 100% of my strength. It should not go anywhere.

I still learned with the hub motor sunder sent that it is best to ease into the throttle when taking off. Sudden starts put 400 to 500% more force on the forks than taking off gradually. Probably why the hub motor has stayed on the Schwinn as long as it has as I did a real piss poor job and it needs two torque arms like the ones I just installed. I may as well just order a pair rather than hoping that I can make the old one on there fully functional.

I remember before I used torque arms and had the hub motor Sunder sent on the front of a silver specialized. The forks were cheap aluminum and I snapped them right off taking off to quick one night. Dan sent replacement forks but when I got the Schwinn I used the forks that came with the Schwinn and Doug needed the forks Dan sent for another bike. I am not sure if Doug still has them or not but I would like them back for a spare if he is not using them.

I have learned a very valuable lesson. Torque arms are definitely not something that you can do without. I wont be using wrenches of any sort anymore to replace torque arms. There is no substitute for proper safety when running hub motors.

Tomorrow I will work on installing the rear rack and will get the SLAs charged and ready. Thanks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-80V-Ebike-Scooter-Brushless-Gearless-Brushless-Motor-Hub-Motor-Up-To-2500W-/162002124910

http://www.ebay.com/itm/72V-2500W-Electric-Bicycle-Brushless-Motor-E-bike-Scooter-Speed-Controller-/251672634083?hash=item3a98dba2e3:g:MkAAAOSwbqpT6YKH

Exactly what I was talking about earlier. Batteries for 6 kilowatts would cost more than the motor and controller probably. I should be able to run that with three 6s Lipos in series.

2. Get a Crystalyte HS4040. Strong Direct Drive Motor

I looked for it Sunder but don't see it on e bay. If it will do at least 40 mph and a complete kit is under $500 it would work for me however cant afford hydraulic. Will disk work ? I know you recommended hydraulic but would cost about $400 for front and rear. I am taking your advice on building a fast bike and don't even care about 45 mph. 40 mph would be good. 40 mph for under $500.



sunder wrote.

You never mentioned whether you were going to do it your way or you'd take advice, but here's how I'd do it:

1. Start off with a very good base. Dual suspension, dual hydraulic brakes a must. Downhill bike strongly preferable.

2. Get a Crystalyte HS4040. Strong Direct Drive Motor

3. Get two 20Ah 72V Batteries premade and parallel them.

4. Get an FOC or Sinewave Controller that can handle 40A @ 72v

5. Win.

Number 1. The downhill bike is definitely doable. I did not know what you meant but saw them today. I discovered and researched them. 1, is good I will do that.

number 4. That is also very doable unless it is a rediculous price. So yes one and four are doable.



number 2. Not sure about the price on the Crystalyte HS4040. Strong Direct Drive Motor

number 3. No way I am paying $600 or more for batteries.





that is what I can afford once I move and get a gas vehicle hopefully if I budget it correctly.

bike - heavy duty downhill bike with disk brakes. rated for 250 lbs or higher. 26" minimum. -- $300

kit. - $2500W rear hub motor kit. 48 to 80V. -- $450

batteries. two 10.0 Lipo packs. -- $150 three total as one is on the way.

controller. - Sinewave Controller that can handle 40A @ 72v -- $100

Hope it will work Sunder. Please let me know. 40mph is good. It don't need to go 45 or 50 mph.

Not going to happen for a couple of months anyway. If you got a price on that Crystalyte HS4040 please let me know. If it is over $450 then it is not in my budget. I might order the kit as soon as I go to the bank to pull out money for the truck I will buy when I find one. I will need to pull out extra money for motor vehicles anyway so why not throw $450 in my checking awhile I am there. This is my three month plan.

April/May. - 2,500W kit.

June - controller and batteries.

July - Downhill bike.

The bike is the last thing as it gives me time to really shop around for the best deal.
The safety of the bike is the most valuable component. Thanks.


LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

You would not want a 250lb rated Downhill bike.
Forgot about motor - controller - battery weight!

You'll need a Downhill bike rated for 350lb at least!

Don't forget to get speed rated upgrades for all components?

[youtube]rTfu0hjVtzE[/youtube]


Grade changed?
Hit a small stone?
$10,000+++ custom bike just fell apart!

Decent Downhill bikes Average ~$7,000 ...
But those are with a ~250lb load rating!
Best Downhill Bikes

 

[DrkAngel]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ebike+torque+arm+install

 

[DrkAngel]

In regard to your speed "needs" or "wants" ...
#1 - Get a speedometer!
Take bikes to top of steep hill,
Add equivalent weight .. (couple cement blocks?)
"Push off"
Re-evaluate your speed wants-needs!

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. new e zip motors.

No I wont spend $8,000 on a bike.

No I am not buying a downhill bike to go 40 mph.

Yes I have been drinking.

No I am not going to build that cheap 24" frame with 20" wheels to go 40 mph.

Yes I am going to use my head for a change and use a super strong 26" bike proven reliable for over two years.

Yes the Currie Ezip Trailz. The name of this famous post will be reborn with the original 48V 1,000W motor on the back exactly like it was but 48V and not 36V.

The front will get a 1,500W hub kit for 40 mph and will call it a day. Thanks for your help and support.

You can disagree with me all you want but that bike is solid and a true beast. Steel and heavy duty enough. As long as I don't hit a pothole at 30+ mph I am good.

I am not wasting my money on some $800 which may be 20 or 30% stronger than the Currie. Yes a 60+ mph bike would need that $8,000. The Currie is perfectly capable of 40+ mph speeds. About 43 mph being the absolute limit for that frame. $600 to $800 downhill bikes cover the 45 to 60 mph range. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 Problems!

# 1 - Most everyone recommends against putting a hub motor on a suspension fork!

# 2 - For the umpteenth time ... Powerful front drive is suicidal on a bicycle!!!

 

[latecurtis]

Problem solved. I will just look for a used Haro or Cannondale 26" mountain bike. Or a fat bike like my friend Als. Disk brakes front and rear. Dual suspension.

I will then order the 1,500W 48V rear hub motor separate and get a 72V controller and run three 10.0 packs in series for 40 mph.

The KISS method. Very simple and effective. I wont have to spend $8,000 on a bike to go 60 mph but only 3 to $400 for a name brand bike. and about the same for the kit.
I already have one 10.0 pack ordered so if it is any good I will only have to order two more.

Today though I will need to work on the Diamondback. I slept until almost 6 pm today. :lol: Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. Currie e zip trailz.

Basically I could put a Hub motor on the back but honestly the bike ran perfect with the Unite motor at 36V with the 80T sprocket that bolted to the freewheel. I even got new bolts and would rather put it back the exact way it was 36V,2250 rpm and 24 mph and decent up hills. It was the best cargo bike I ever built.

As for the 24" build I can make that go 30 mph the way it is by simply spending the $70 and ordering the 65T spoke kit from Kings custom sprockets. The 56T spoke kit on the 20" wheel can go on the front of the other 20" frame I got for 26 mph@36V using a 48V,1,000W motor at 2250 rpm and 750W.

I plan on both of these builds next month to be completed. The 24" bike and the 36V 20" bike. The Currie can wait until I move. I just talked to the landlady and don't have to move until I am ready. I think she realizes that it wont be that easy to evict a 73 year old disabled person and a 51 year old person with a heart condition.

I told her I was looking for a truck and she will be here tomorrow to discuss parking spots. I also said I will be getting a storage unit as one of her issues is too much stuff in the apartment. I can put the Schwinn and 24" bike in storage and drive one of my 20" bikes there if I want to ride one of them.

As for a 40+ mph bike? My dream bike! It will happen this Summer. I really want you guys to help me pick out a bike. I can buy the bike when I take out money for the truck and build it later this summer.

I will be posting different links to Haro and Cannondale 26" mountain bikes.

The 1,500W hub kit will be rear only. NO front.

You guys can rate them on a scale of 1 thru 10. 10. being best suited for 40 to 45 mph top speed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Cannondale-Lefty-RZ-120-Large-frame-/162051323432?hash=item25bb02f628:g:lREAAOSwMVFXIA-T

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Haro-Freestyler-Master-26-BMX-Frameset-Chrome-2014-Model-Vintage-Frame-/291207213776?hash=item43cd4d72d0:g:3CIAAOSwnDZT3Q66

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Haro-Calavera-Sport-16-Black-Green-Orange-Mountain-Bicycle-Bike-/361542666530?hash=item542d9f4922:g:m-4AAOSwJQdW-aYN

There really is not too much on e bay and nothing on Amazon in that price range. There will not be too many choices but have had my heart set on a Haro for quite awhile.

Also if any ES member has a bike they think is suitable for up to 2.5 kilowatts of hub motor in the rear please let me know as I am interested in buying. $500 is my absolute limit however.

The hub motor kit I am getting is 1,500W@48V minimum to 2,500W@72V maximum. I am taking Sunders advice and not messing with chain driven motors for this build.

I guess we can rate the frames also. I am really looking for a complete bike with disk brakes though. Remember Doug is a big Haro guy and there is not much he don't know about them. I will find a really GOOD SOLID bike for 40+ mph. I will appreciate you guys input though. It matters to me. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

Oh , I'm sorry I guess I lied.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-96V-Brushless-Hub-Gearless-Motor-UP-TO-4000Watts/161411761949?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36499%26meid%3D3f48c892ebc34da6a2b9e33676e092e8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D151752955374

Definatlly ordering that motor the day I go to the bank.




http://e-greenmotion.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=100_110&product_id=65&limit=100

This is a slower choice. Complete kit though.


http://www.greyborgusa.com/product/the-cromotor/

Things that make you go HMMM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF2ayWcJfxo

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Better learn to read and double check the specs on those motors!