new eZip motor

[ZeroEm]

by markz » Sep 02 2021 7:33pm

I stole the idea from es member icecube57 who did a lot of testing of lipo's and posted lots of videos.

I am pretty sure I posted it before in this -eZip motor- thread.

I still have a lot of reading to do in ES. Just started in LC thread. Might be interesting to read from the beginning?

 

[markz]

Up to you
You could also search for icecube57's posts on ES and read what he did
and go look at his youtube channel video's
I believe he still sells modified server psu's to charge high powered chargers like his iChargers since they are 12V 60A and you can put them in series (after you modified them, un-isolated grounds) for 24/36/48V 60A psu's.
Some very interesting things he did. Not sure if he has even logged in in years.

Yeah looks like he jumps in once a year or so, probably to see if theres any new innovation or new motors to test, install and ride. He had mxus 3kw 45H out of Alabama I do believe.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6285
Joined:
Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:42 am
Last active:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:24 pm

I still have a lot of reading to do in ES. Just started in LC thread. Might be interesting to read from the beginning?

 

[latecurtis]

Go to the thrift store
Go to the chargers hanging off the wall
Look at the back of the chargers for the voltage and the current
Look for 5V 1A
Charge up all the low voltages so every things equal

That is a great idea I would have never thought of but is a worse case scenario.

It has been about 24 hours now and the six cells are a lot closer than they were. It is almost properly balanced. The reason for the imbalance was I basically sabotaged myself.

I tested all the cells when I first got them brand new from Battery Hookup. They were all exactly 3.33V. There might have been a couple out of 80 cells that were 3.32V.

I built three packs. A 6S solderless pack and a 6S and 4S pack I soldered. I balanced charged each pack but think I charged one of the packs twice and hooked up the balancer overnight to only one pack. That is why there are different voltages.

When I tore them all apart and re - built them into two 6S packs the one 6S pack that is out of balance the most was mixed cells from the 4S and 6S packs I soldered. The other was the 6S solderless pack which is not out of balance as much.

I think I will balance the other 6S pack anyway when this one is finished and then run them down to around 3V a cell and then see where I am at. Hopefully they will all be close and can just balance charge them.

What I like about the active balancer though from what I read , it works when discharging like a BMS only 10 times better. However if I don't need it why spend $80 on two 6S active balancers.

However if it prolongs the pack life to a substantial amount like a few 1,000 cycles then the $80 is worth it. Also would save me the hassle of externally balancing. I could use that wasted time building more batteries or e bike projects.

I would like to hear from DA. about active balancers. I think he said they work very well. My original question was is it ok to hook up the active balancers like that as if the answer is yes I can just plug my 6S balance plugs into the active balancer. An active balancer with Bluetooth would even be better as I would be able to see each cell bank on a smart phone app.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

No, its not a worst case scenerio, it should be a main method if you value your time.

Well I'm like 95% sure I posted icecube57's method in this exact same -new eZip motor- thread.

It won't take 24hrs
Will take 2 or 3 hrs depending on the Ah size of your cans.
Probable cost would be $3-5 for one charger, so best to buy 2 or 3 chargers.
I have a box of them but half are not working because once you touch the + and - you break something inside, probably a fuse but the chargers are sealed. Thats another key factor to baby sit manually charging it.

That is a great idea I would have never thought of but is a worse case scenario.

It has been about 24 hours now and the six cells are a lot closer than they were. It is almost properly balanced. The reason for the imbalance was I basically sabotaged myself.

 

[latecurtis]

Probable cost would be $3-5 for one charger, so best to buy 2 or 3 chargers.

I think I have some of those in a box somewhere. 5V is very common. It will work as long as I can use the balance plug. I do not want to take the packs out of the boxes.

I will need to find a thin wire or pin that will fit into the balance plug extension. That way I can test with a multimeter and then use your method. I will see if I can dig them out.

If this happens after running and balance charging the next time I will try your method.

Right now the cells are 3.203 to 3.207 low to high. Should be finished soon then will hook up the other pack. I will run them down to 3V a cell then slowly balance charge and check all the cells . then go from there.

I think that once they are both properly balanced they should run dozens of cycles with no problem. I hope I am right.

I still am debating whether I should get rid of all my 18650 cells or build a 13 or 14S - 7P pack. I am just not sure. I would rather build more LIFEPO4 packs and do it right the first time than mess with dangerous 18650 cells. I wish I could sell or trade my good 18650s for more 26650 LIFE cells.

I still need to figure out if I am going with a BMS or active balancer on those 13S power modules. I got a new seat for the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. I used the 20" Turbo and my 13S pack. I need to charge that also tonight.

I really want to put that brush motor on the front with my 48V - 1,000W brush controller for 2,500W total power. The 1,800W brushless motor on the back is hooked to a 1,500W 48V brushless controller. 38 amps I think and think the brush controller is 26 or 28 amps so > 60 amps. 38 mph gearing.

OK I got lots of balance extensions and can use one of those in the picture below to test for the low cell bank and then use a 5V charger. I just need to find where I put them. No sense in buying one as I know I own several.




I know you all are going to think I am completely insane but am really thinking about ordering two of these. The reason is the 26" dual suspension with the 48V - 1,000W hub on the rear and Bafang up front. No way I would want to run those huge heavy power modules and those two LIFEPO4 packs. With those I could stick them in a small ammo box on a rear rack for the 48V hub motor and the LIFEPO4s in the frame for the Bafang.

Also I remember back in NY when I ran 12S - LiPo that motor was a lot faster then with the 13S Lion pack I run now. It just dont have the output LiPo does. Not to mention how large a box for those power modules will be on the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. I got to order a BMS and build a large box so I can run it on two bikes.

OK. The balancer just beeped. Lets see where they are at.



Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[tomjasz]

Just started in LC thread. Might be interesting to read from the beginning?

Sarcasm I hope? Not a single sensible and useful post by the OP. Better to check out DarkAngel and icecube57 battery threads.

 

[markz]

Are you into some light reading?
Under 300 pages of reading, thats quite a lot.
Do you know how to skim read?

I still have a lot of reading to do in ES. Just started in LC thread. Might be interesting to read from the beginning?

I think I have some of those in a box somewhere. 5V is very common. It will work as long as I can use the balance plug. I do not want to take the packs out of the boxes.
Better be sure exactly what you got, I just bought whatever current I wanted for the C-rate I wanted

I will need to find a thin wire or pin that will fit into the balance plug extension. That way I can test with a multimeter and then use your method. I will see if I can dig them out.
Anything will do, so long as you dont damage the plug internals. A needle pin, a paper clip, heck even a wire itself if it aint to thin. Actually a helpful hint to all you home gamers out there, you can pull the wire out of a bad balance lead and shove that into a good balance connector, again I gain this knowledge from this forum, as I mentioned previously whom I garnered it from.

If this happens after running and balance charging the next time I will try your method.
Yeah you can try whatever method you want.

Right now the cells are 3.203 to 3.207 low to high. Should be finished soon then will hook up the other pack. I will run them down to 3V a cell then slowly balance charge and check all the cells . then go from there.
Thats close enough in my books but I do not know the history of your pack, but 0.01V is good enough

I think that once they are both properly balanced they should run dozens of cycles with no problem. I hope I am right.
Depends on how badly they are damaged, and if all the internal resistances are the same, if the IR is to out of whack you may have to do an extraction.

I still am debating whether I should get rid of all my 18650 cells or build a 13 or 14S - 7P pack. I am just not sure. I would rather build more LIFEPO4 packs and do it right the first time than mess with dangerous 18650 cells. I wish I could sell or trade my good 18650s for more 26650 LIFE cells.
No one buys used batteries, or no one should buy used batteries but people still do. The people with store bought ebikes will buy a used battery aka a mystery battery, who knows how its been cared for or stored, at what voltages and at what temperature (like in the shed through the seasons, an unheated garage or temperature controlled room) and most importantly for how long.

I still need to figure out if I am going with a BMS or active balancer on those 13S power modules. I got a new seat for the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. I used the 20" Turbo and my 13S pack. I need to charge that also tonight.
I charge to 57.50V then when tomorrow if I ride I charge to 58.8V if I have time for 14S or I just get out and ride

I really want to put that brush motor on the front with my 48V - 1,000W brush controller for 2,500W total power. The 1,800W brushless motor on the back is hooked to a 1,500W 48V brushless controller. 38 amps I think and think the brush controller is 26 or 28 amps so > 60 amps. 38 mph gearing.
Numbers are meaningless now, its been a blur for quite some time.

OK I got lots of balance extensions and can use one of those in the picture below to test for the low cell bank and then use a 5V charger. I just need to find where I put them. No sense in buying one as I know I own several.
Not sure why I am even replying in this method, a quick few liners is all thats necessary.


View attachment 1


I know you all are going to think I am completely insane but am really thinking about ordering two of these.
.............and you thought 18650 were "dangerous" now your off buying lipo, the creme a la creme of "dangerous", lets just hope you dont take them over the the voltage cliff and try to bulk charge in whole number increments (instead of not milli, but micro for months on end) of amps, pop pop pop pop

 

[ZeroEm]

by tomjasz » Sep 02 2021 11:02pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Sep 02 2021 7:37pm
Just started in LC thread. Might be interesting to read from the beginning?

Sarcasm I hope? Not a single sensible and useful post by the OP. Better to check out DarkAngel and icecube57 battery threads.

Entertainment, never know what you might pickup.

 

[latecurtis]

Well Markz method is awesome and got to check out the guy he was referring to.

That strip of wood happens to be six screw terminals for that solderless 18650 pack I was building. Back before I abandoned the method and started soldering again. Last one left. I got the screws.

I can wrap the balance wires around each terminal. Then use gater clips to the 5V charger. I could always charge the low cell quickly .

I just have to find the charger.

For a low cell I raise it up and then hook balancer up. Let it do the cells where there is not much difference.

I got one high cell now so am on my second balance cycle. Should be shorter though as it goes from top cell down.

ALl cells at 10% - 3.207 to 3.21V

Doing the second pack. If I get a low cell again it will be much quicker if I use a 5V charger first.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

There are a lot more then that that have posted over the decades all over ES, maybe even in this eZip thread since its close to 300 pages first started 7 yrs ago.
latecurtis » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:47 pm


like
arkmundi
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=27759

Doctorbass
LFP
Jeremy Harris

lots more that I can't name off the top of my head
Here is a good starting point
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=group&g=2188

 

[latecurtis]

Well I am happy.

I got e bike projects to do in the e bike workshop.

Without that my life is completely worthless. I really don't do anything else except play a video game. Watched about every movie ever filmed. Sick of TV.


Other pack is 25% to 32% A lot closer and not worth balancing. It is the pack where I did not mix up the cells. 19.2V the one I balanced and 19.7V the one that don't need balancing. That wont matter as I charge them seperate.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[ZeroEm]

by latecurtis » Sep 02 2021 11:39pm

Well I am happy.

I got e bike projects to do in the e bike workshop.

Without that my life is completely worthless. I really don't do anything else except play a video game. Watched about every movie ever filmed. Sick of TV.

Thanks.

LC. out.

I hear you, my back makes me spend about 20 hrs a day in bed unless I spend some of that time on my trike. Now when i'm not riding I can read about riding. Just think in the near future everything will be electric, no more pollution.

 

[latecurtis]

Look at the back of the chargers for the voltage and the current
Look for 5V 1A

Yea. I did not find one. I did not really look because I really do not need one.

Both my LiPo chargers will do 1S to 6S.

I just need to drill a hole and one more nut in that strip of wood for 7 bolts , then hook the balance plug wires to the bolts. Just wrap around and a nut. Nothing fancy. Gater clips on the LiPo charger and charge the cell that is low on 1S charge setting.

Thanks.

LC out.

 

[markz]

What are you rocking, 50 or 80W rc charger?

 

[latecurtis]

What are you rocking, 50 or 80W rc charger?

Yea.

I am still thinking about those 10.0 - 6S Ternergy packs.

It is not that the power modules cant get the job done. It is the size , weight and fact that I have to build a box and hook up BMSs or active balancer.

I'm frocking lazy. Most days I don't even feel like rolling out of bed except to drink water and let some out. I am a lazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy alcoholic. Took months just to build two 6S LIFE packs.

It will probably take at least a month or two to get that brush motor on the front of the 20" bike. I don't even want to work on the 18650 cells.

The 53V power modules according to my calculations gear the little death trap for 38 mph. 12S LiPo should still do 35 mph. A lot less work and less space and still plenty fast enough for a 20" kids bike. Not sure ? Talking about two bikes. The 20" and Dual suspension. If I bought three of those bad boys then three e bikes. The Haro V3 and the 3 kilowatt brushless motor would be good for 50 mph.

4.15 resting voltage for fully charged LiPo * 18 = 74.7V

3,000W / 60V = 50A * 74V = 3,700W = 50 mph.

Big decision. Guess I will have to sleep on it. Money is in the bank tomorrow afternoon when I get up. Will just have to put it on my card and place the order. ? Or not ?

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[marty]

Just started in LC thread. Might be interesting to read from the beginning?

Sarcasm I hope? Not a single sensible and useful post by the OP. Better to check out DarkAngel and icecube57 battery threads.

For a excellent lesson on how to build a battery from used 18650 cells. Doctorbass is to batteries, like Jesus is to religion.

READ!

Click on this to see 4 threads from 2007 to 2017
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=konion+MAKITA&terms=all&author=doctorbass&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=posts&sd=d&st=0&t=0&submit=Search

I still got quite a few used Makita power tool batteries. Any one want to buy? How about $1.00 a pack? Most likely dead from age. Sorry no shipping. Latecurtis, how far are you from Buffalo, NY 14223?

 

[latecurtis]

I still got quite a few used Makita power tool batteries. Any one want to buy? How about $1.00 a pack? Most likely dead from age. Sorry no shipping. Latecurtis, how far are you from Buffalo, NY 14223?

I bought a box full of those life vest packs from battery hookup.3S - 1P but a pain in the ass extracting. Have to re wrap each cell and put the ring on top with liquid tape. Then test voltage and internal resistance.

I am trying to get rid of 18650 cells. Too much work and are dangerous. They are like fire crackers.

I like 26650 LIFEPO4 cells. Brand new from Battery hookup. 100% safe compared to 18650s.

Also I am really lazy. Just rolled out of bed. Thinking about brand new LiPo from Hobby King as all I have to do is tuck them in a LiPo bag and stick in an ammo box and run on a rear rack. I got plenty of balance extensions and can run XT60 extensions that can plug into the XT90s on the packs.

It would only take 10 minutes to accomplish instead of days , weeks or months screwing around with used 18650s that are also dangerous. I would rather deal with two brand new LiPos than hundreds of sketchy 18650 cells. Only takes one to start a fire or explode and lose a body part.

how far are you from Buffalo, NY 14223?

About 3 - 1/2 hours I think.

How about helping me out with an electric dirt bike someday. I have an FX - 75 - 5 motor and 28 kilowatt controller, Also 24 - 18 Ah Lishen LTOs brand new. I need to come up with about $315 for another box of 12 for 80V. Then a dirt bike frame. Probably a 250 cc. Blown gas motor and strip out all the gas parts , tank , pipes , ect.

The only person besides me that will ever ride it is the person who helps me build it. I need help with that. It is way beyond my skill level.

Not sure what your skill level is but is probably better than mine. I am also scared of electricity. Took me months to get the courage to run LiPo back at the start of this post when someone sent me four used packs. I bought a $24 e bay spot welder a couple months back and have not even tried it.

Are you spot welding or soldering ?????

If I do decide to travel I could bring it and see if we could hook it up. Is something I rather do outside in a park on an old picnic table with a fire extinguisher and 5 gallon bucket of water handy, :lol:

Throw some burgers on a grill. 8) Maybe tip back a few cold beers and roll a nice joint AFTER trying out the mini spot welder.
How much are camp sites for a weekend around there ? I am an alcoholic but never got a DUI or DWi and am not starting now. Why I only drink late at night. Besides it has been years since camping.

DA. is close to your neck of the woods. Would be nice to have an e bike rally like once a year. 3 or more e bike members working on projects and riding e bikes , racing , ect. It would be a blast. Lets see how many ES members are around Western NY and Erie PA. I am in central Ohio but would travel there to actually meet ES members and have some fun. My life has been so boring lately it is ridiculous.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[tomjasz]

FFS. Clueless.
“ Also I am really lazy.”

Medicare pays for therapy. There’s hope, but you have to grow up.

 

[DrkAngel]

''Ppears to be, 63/37 is the ideal, if you must, solder for soldering Lithium "cans".
Seems to bypass the "plastic" transition "balls of solder" and go directly from solid to bondable liquid ... at the lowest temperature.



60\40 is close, don't know how or why LC's 40\60 is working at all?

 

[latecurtis]

60\40 is close, don't know how or why LC's 40\60 is working at all?

Well that is news to me. 60/40 vs 40/60

You can see how that might be confusing ? Easy to mix up. When I went to the hardware store to buy solder the only thing on my mind was to get lead base solder NOT lead free. Also rosin core , as it has flux in it.

I just went back to e bay summery and saw that the solder DA. recommended was in fact 60/40 and what I bought was 40/60. Now I know the difference.

I also know that I need the thicker solder as 90% of the solder DA. recommended evaporated. I suspect that is because it was thin solder but will know for sure if I order a roll of 60/40 but I will need the same thickness as the 40/60 I got at True Value hardware.

Thanks DA. for the information.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

$19.58/lb

 

[latecurtis]

Thanks DA.

I will put some money on my card tonight.

I still need to order a BMS for those power modules. or an active balancer. I was hoping for the Bluetooth option so I can see all the cells balancing on my phone. I have a smart phone but will need the app.

Taking a long ride 9 miles total in the country to the cannabis store in a few minutes. My cell phone was not working for the GPS so doubt it will work for the speedometer.

The LIFEPO4s are not full charged anyway so doubt the Currie will do > 25 mph today anyway. I just want to see how it will do up those hills.

The 26" dual suspension had no problems and neither did the 20" Turbo with the 13S - 20 Ah pack. Not even trying it with the 26" Diamondback Outlook and the dual Bafang motors though it might work , I do not want to risk damaging those motors as they work perfect.

The 1,800W brushless motor flew up those hills with the 13S - 20Ah packs but am NOT running my 13S pack that hard any more. That is what killed the 10S - 8P packs or at least shortened the life significantly.

I will be using the power modules for the 1,800W motor. It should do 35 mph the way it is with the power modules. The rag tag (spoke sprocket) will be removed later when I put the gear reduction motor on the front as the spoke sprocket warps the rim after a while.

I will be running 8mm chain for > 40 mph gearing. I will be smoking those pesky mini bikes and that go cart that has been rolling around.

I will post the video of the Currie running the LIFEPO4s when I get back. I will do a Wall-Mart run before I get back so the LIFEPO4 cells will probably be around 3.1V per cell or around 37V. I could recharge them tonight or could run them down to 3V per cell. I will probably re charge them and use the balance function on the charger. Then see where the cells are at.

I will post the video when I get back.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Curtis, DA posted the exact same link to the exact same solder 2 weeks ago.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62231&p=1672006&hilit=solder#p1672006

Thanks DA.

Curtis, 9 miles is not a long ride. I rode 30 miles today with no where in particular to go, just cruising around and found one of my usual fishing spots to fish at. The popular area's are to congested on weekends which are closer to the downtown. I need to learn to not say anything to people when they stop and block half or 3/4 of the pathway. I wouldnt consider 30 miles long maybe 40 miles is long.

Taking a long ride 9 miles total in the country

 

[latecurtis]

The first 6S - 5P - LIFEPO4 pack I did before I got the Weller soldering iron is defective. Complete garbage. They were heated up too much with the 60 watt iron with the wrong tip and solder and the cells are severely damaged.

LVC cutoff at about 3 miles out. Had to push it back.

The damaged pack is on the balance charger. the cells were all over the place and would not even balance charge at first. I had to charge without the balance plug for 1/2 hour and then switch over to balance.

The pack I soldered with the Weller shows no sign of damage and all cells are stable.

The damaged pack I am balance charging will have at least one or two low cell banks when the charger reads full. I will have to charge them separate to get them close to the others. I made a way to do that with gater clips. ( pic below).

At 42V or 3.5V per cell I might get 15 miles if I am lucky. I think 39V is the limit. After that the damaged pack triggers the LVC.

Only hope for that is if can use my 10S - 42V lithium ion charger.


3.5V * 12 = 42V.



4:47 AM. 9/6/21

Can I use my 10S - 42V lithium ion charger for 12S - LIFEPO4 ?????????

It seems like LIFEPO4 dont run at all at the lower voltages and / or a defective pack. It ran at 40V ok so should at 42V and 3.5V per cell. I just need to know if it is SAFE or not ???????

The charger is the bottom two pics.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

I guess nobody wants to be bothered to answer a simple question.

I wanted to take the Currie but do not trust the LIFEPO4.

I charged the defective , damaged pack last night and finally got all the cells to 85%. It was charging at almost 3.5V.

However now the good pack is all frocked up. I got one cell at 3.7V and the rest around 3.36V.

I am starting to think that LIFEPO4 is junk. I thought they were better than Lion but am seriously doubting it now. So far the only advantage is the safety factor. That is a huge plus but if they are not reliable enough to run it cancels that out.

They acted like the old 10 Ah SLAs yesterday that died back at the start of this post with the Currie.. Like a dead duck. Complete garbage. I do not know if I should just throw them out or not and nobody can even post.

I charged my one good 13S - 20AH Lion pack last night. I guess I will have to take the 20" Turbo. the only reliable bike that I can run as works perfect on 13S Lion. I cant run any of my Bafang motors with that.

I am really disgusted. Mostly with myself for even ordering LIFEPO4 in the first place. Frankly I am disgusted I even started frocking around with e bikes. I failed to listen to anyone here that attempted to give me good advice. I need to take responsibility for my failures and stop blaming others. could have a really nice car with all the money I wasted.

Thanks.

LC. out.