new eZip motor

[DAND214]

Too complex for me!

Rig packs as 6s2p ... to start.
Half as complex to figure.
Don't see any way simpler than my diagrams ...

+1 DrkAngel.

ABC already been cooked?

LC, please don't do that. You are asking for a disaster!
DA has made it as simple as possible. His diagrams are perfect. Reason for the balance board and charger is, so you can learn more about what they need to continue a useful life cycle.

No you don't want a fuel guage. Alarms are best for you to learn how close you are to stopping. You can't run a fuel guage dead or empty like a car. Run till there dead, stop at the closest hobby shop BUY NEW.

Your ABC board has way too many connections and have more chance to make a mistake. Not to mention all the connections are more resistance.

As I said earlier, DrkAngel has spent a lot of time and effort to try to help you in the right direction. We all have learned from others. Which have made mistakes along the way.

So all you need is another 6s2p balancing cable and a couple more Sermos or Andersons as they are called.

Unless you can make it simpler than the KISS DA posted, do what he suggested.

But I/We can't make you do anything you don't wanna do. It's all been to make it so YOU can get your Ebikes back on the road.

Most here that have tried to help have many hours withs batteries and complete setups. I many years in the hobby battery business. I tested and sold NiCad cells for years. I even sent packs to Japan for the World champion races. After NiCad, then Nimeatel and now LiPo. This all started 1985 and I'm still learning. Learning by reading as much as I can this Forum offers. Yeah there are some silly ideas and there are some great answers to a problem. One guy doesn't quite get it but another member comes along and says something and the problem is solved.

After you get the battery wiring and am able to charge without worring, it's time to go BULK charge. Some go naked some with a BMS. Either way it's the easyest way to charge.

I have been bulk charging for years but at times I need to do a balance cycle or two to get the cells back in order.
I also have LiPo with a BMS and am in the process of adding another BMS to my daily rider. I don't know whysince the cells are new and appear to be balancing fine.

LC I have tried to ignore this but couldn't.

Have you mounted the frt wheel yet? If so I sure hope you got the needed washers/C-washers as needed. Also make sure you hook up the frt brakes. A few scrapes in the rim isn't gonna stop them from working. Now if the rim is bent that's a differant thing. Either way you need frt brakes.

Christmas is coming, so make sure you don't blow all your money on your bike. The little lady wont appreciiate that.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

I admit the ABC Lipo board is a bit complicated. My main concern is extending the battery connectors and balance plugs up into a second metal box exactly like the first metal box. Also using gorilla tape to secure the wires to minimize movement and vibration where the wires attach to the batteries during operation and plugging and unplugging. I can do without all the extra plugs and connections and follow DrkAngels diagram but am still going to separate the positive and negative plugs to avoid arching and mistakes. The ABC board I created is mistake proof by design. It is impossible to make a positive to negative connection on the same battery which would cause a dead short and possible Lipo fire. not to mention KFF. I designed the ABC lipo board to be able to use the parallel board. If I don't need the parallel board to charge and balance all the cells than instead of 22 female plugs coming up thru the board. There would simply be 8 plugs. not counting the balance plugs. battery 1 positive and negative and the balance plug. Battery 2 positive and negative and balance plug. ect. That would be much simpler to do. I got confused when DrkAngel said I had to unplug and plug the balance plugs twice when balance charging and figured if I invented that that board I could utilize the parallel board. I will make the proper adjustments to follow DrkAngels diagrams.

I have been sick and just getting over the flu. Had a lot of time on my hands. If you all think the ABC board was complicated. Get ready to laugh when you check out these next 2 attachments.

 

[latecurtis]

 

[latecurtis]

Basically I dont really know what to call this thing. There must be similar devices for expensive electric cars.

Voltage equilizer interface smart circuit board. - This keeps an exact voltage going to each
capicitor regardless of the voltage output from each battery connected to the capicator. It achievies
this by taking a small amount of current from the spare battery and adding it to any capicitor that
needs it.. The controller will always recieve an even balanced voltage. It should also be able to
extend the life of comprimized batteries by discharging them at a slightly lower rate. It may also be called controlled balance discharging making balance charging obsolete.

For example in two 4s packs as illistrated three of the batteries are brand new and optimal voltage. Say 14.4V. I know its higher fresh off the charger but we will go with 14.4. The other used batteries are 14.2 , 14.1 and 14V. The spare battery will make up for the missing voltage providing 14.4 volts to each capicator. The controller will only see the voltage from the capicitors. Not the batteries.

user control interface -- This allows you to select the type or voltage 4s, 5s , 6s ect. The spare battery must be changed accordingly. variable capacitors if they exist must be used. If not dis-
reguard this feature. This feature also allows a power / range button. when power is selected maximum power for racing is enabled. If range is chosen then the most efficient discharge rate will allow the longest range possible from the batteries. The entire system can be set to shutdown before any battery damage occures or to minimum battery damage.

The battery health meter in the bottom left hand corner is one of the best features in monitering and replacing batteries. It may even enable the use of less than perfect Lipo batteries. In charge mode
battery health is diplayed with 0 discharge rate. In run mode it displays battery health during
operation and should be mounted on the handelbars.

I know on Hobby King somewhere I saw defective Lipo batteries at very low prices. I am sure that as long as they are mounted and contained in a fireproof compartment with special fuses and fire proof protection to prevent equipment damage their use could become widespread. See lipo fireproof chamber..

I dont have the technical skills at this time to construct such a device but will be happy to answer any questions and will give 100% support in any effort to develop manufactuer and distribute this said device. Any and all ES members involved in this project should feel proud and reap the rewards once this device is mass produced. A decent share of my profits will go into a garage which will convert gas powered vehicles to electric power. I will also head a research and development team for advanced DC electric motors. Last but not least will be e bike drag racing as a legitimate sport and legalizing e bikes world wide!!!

Thanks Sincerelly Latecurtis out.

 

[999zip999]

Charge your lipo experiments in a barbeque. All experiments need to be in a safe place till proven as other people have told you to be careful. Or Frankenstein might wake up.

 

[DAND214]

Charge your lipo experiments in a barbeque. All experiments need to be in a safe place till proven as other people have told you to be careful. Or Frankenstein might wake up.

I love it

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

got the second cash box. Holes are drilled and a grinder was used to take care of the sharp edges. I hope to be able to wire this up soon. I put some money in my checking account if i have to order plugs online. I would rather get them from radio shack or an electronics store than waite around for another package. Do i have enough balance plugs? I posted pictures of all my plugs and connectors. i could cut and connect wires but would rather not use wire nuts for this. Never had much luck with anything else. i will order what I need tommorow if I can get them by monday or tuesday of next week. The positive and negitive are too close on the bullet connectors. I would like to keep them seperated. Less chance of shock. I will tape the controller in the box tonight. There is a smaller $10 cash box which may house the skycharger and 300 watt power supply but for now I will use the 550 watt power supply and 400 watt megacharger. I have spent enough money this month. I just want to charge the battery packs , install the front wheel kit ( with the right size washers) and get this thing up and running A. S. A. P. Would like a link for 4 - 6 inch male bullet connector to female type connector that has the negitive and positive seperated and wont short out on the metal box. I will need extentions for the balance plugs if i dont have enough. I really hope to see a link posted tommorow. They dont give me much time at the library on saturdays so I wont be able to go searching. I will have just enough time to order. Thanks latecurtis out

 

[DrkAngel]

Recommended charger - controller configuration for 3 x 4s2p KISS ©®


Sample of a distribution board for 3 x 4s2p balance charging KISS ©®

View attachment 1
Simple bulk charge KISS ©®
Should have labeled ≤ 50.4V = ≤ 4.20V per cell-bank.
One brand of LiPo I charge to 4.12V per cell = 49.44V (12s)

 

[DAND214]

50.4v AND NO MORE

As long as you use the alarms. 50.4 is the max you want to use.
Most cases I do 49.4v or less.

Dan

 

[DrkAngel]

50.4v AND NO MORE

As long as you use the alarms. 50.4 is the max you want to use.
Most cases I do 49.4v or less.

Dan

Agreed!
For safety and longevity, charging to a lower voltage is recommended.

Should have labeled ≤ 50.4V = ≤ 4.20V per cell-bank.
One brand of LiPo I charge to 4.12V per cell = 49.44V (12s)
I charge recycled Sanyo 18650 cells to 4.02V = 48.24 (12s)

After performing a capacity mapping, I decide on the optimal balance of capacity vs longevity.
See = Capacity Mapping - Determining Optimal Charge-Discharge Voltages
And - Optimal Charge Voltages

 

[latecurtis]

 

[latecurtis]

Some limit on pics. Tablet is Windows based. High megapixelrate. Paint ,resize to 12% just to post each pic. post It wont accept more than 512 something I think . Got a comment on small pics awhile back. something should be taken up with forum leaders. Tablet can zoom in to justify those pics . Mabey not at 12% though.
Drunk!
Controller installed. Hooked the Y plugs to the balance ones. No idea what to do now
so decided to take a picture if it would make any difference. Lots of these plugs I dont see any use for. Maby the bannana plugs can be used in the next planet of the apes movie. I dont know. Still dont know what that Anderson pole thing was. Was it the guy who went to the moon and put a flag pole up. remember watching it or something in grade school. why I tried to invent something that I possibly couldn't hook up wrong. In case I rolled in like this and decided to hook up chargers. I will make a mental note not to do that.
Thinking about installing front kit tommorow. Probably dream about washers and lawyers lips all night. I beat lots of cops up in younger days and had many shitty lawyers who needed fat lips in my time. Hopefully if I get a couple more beers in me i'll be spared from dreaming about all that. Calmed down a lot since then. Havent had any problems with the law in about 20 years now. I cant honestly say though if a cop tried to take away one of my e bikes that it would end well. I leave them alone and they leave me alone. Thats the way I like it and hope that it stays that way. Really hope to get this project done soon. I really dont see any advantage in ever buying 4s bricks. I think when it comes time to replace the 6s packs Dan sent me I should order those 1600 mha ones. The 120+ dollar each deals. you know what I mean. home not connected you know. 4s too complicated if my ABC thing no good. Also no go for currie until Settlement SSI/SSD. then will run LIFEPO4. Wish I had LIFEPO4 now. Seems like the best deal out there if one can afford it.

 

[latecurtis]

Have no idea what you guys are talking about 50 volts and 49.something. 44.4 volts are these packs I thought. Don't have no money for some BMS thing or alarm. Spent enough money on project. Time to get r done. Will keep them charged and balanced. Wont go more than 3 or 4 miles without charging. I got plenty of room next to the controller for a Lipo board. Don't have to be as complicated as the ABC board posted earlier but must be idiot proof in case I turn into a drunkin idiot like I was last night. Must have safety features to prevent short circuits and can circle the plugs with color markers and colored electrical tape on the plugs. Color coding is good cause long as I can see I can safely charge my batteries.

 

[latecurtis]

I can't see just having plugs just laying around and flopping around in that empty space by the controller. Unacceptable. The Lapp board will work and will use DrkAngels diagrams to build it. Not talking me out of it or into some BMS gadget or alarm thing. Tome to get the show on the road. Will post a picture when the Lipos are charging and a video when that thing is rolling down the road under electric power.

Sincerely Latecurtis.

 

[DrkAngel]

$5 for a pair of VMAs is a sound investment!
Also, something else ...

I forgot to diagram in a fuse.
A very cheap insurance policy!!!
Turns a simple or stupid very costly-dangerous mistake into a $1 replacement item.

 

[DAND214]

Here you go Latecurtis, I labeled it for you.

I sent the harness taped two ANDERSONS together and the loose ones go to the controller or charger as needed.

The thin wired Y harness are for the balance while charging and or alarms while riding.

I also sent a extra pair of Andersons for the controiller or the patch cord to the controller.

I sure wish I had a spare Bulk charger so it woukd make it much easier for you, but I don't. 50v is the peak voltage a bulk charger should charge a 12s pack. Voltage varies from each member from their own idea that is best for their packs. 50.4 is max recommended for a 12s pack. 48 to 49.4v is what I run.

As for color coding , it works if you can see. Too drunk or dark and it makes no difference.

As I said before, you are on your own, we are just trying to help. So if I win the Lottery on Christmas I will come over and help you put it all together. Don't hold your breath though.

If you have questions, ask them!
Not a whole post on other things that are not related. All that does is chase ES members away, if it's not what they clicked on for.

Hope this helps. I too forgot a fuse. GET ONE about 30/40 is enough.

Dan

 

[dnmun]

please make sure there is insurance on the house too. zap pat's insurance company would not cover the loss of his house and shop.

 

[DAND214]

please make sure there is insurance on the house too. zap pat's insurance company would not cover the loss of his house and shop.

Wouldn't cover because of a fire - LiPo?
If that's the case, half or more the country isn't covered
Dan

 

[latecurtis]

drunk , cutting , taping and splicing wires. I dont have 4 batteries anymore. there is only two. I combined them. This is permenent. balance plugs also. Check it out. The Parallel board got butchered. Will only work for this 6s application now. When I used to work construction in the 90s They would call this a butcher job. Will do whatever it takes to get r done. no money left for ordering stuff or fooling around. Latecurtisout.
That was about 4 am. I am having coffee now about 4 pm . In front of me is the carnage from 12 hours ago. I hope to get the front kit installed today. I have to look for washers. One of you guys mentioned about a Haro build that Douge may be interested in. I would be more interested if I ever can come up with $1500 for Dougs bike. Douge dont want a motor. Pedel power only. I asked him about it . He wants to build a newer Haro and has been talking about selling.
I want to know for sure if I got these wires right. If so then I wont need a board or switch. I already have a little separation between the plugs via a piece of a hacksaw blade. I will use the parallel board and balance charge every time I charge I guess. I made the wires way too long but too late now. This will be for the specialized only. The currie I want LIFEPO4s. I can use the custom brackets in the frame to mount them where the 22 Ah SLAs were. When the day comes to replace the Lipos on the Specialized I will be getting those 1600 mah deals for about $120 each.
One picture will be running mode. The other charging mode. This has to be correct regardless of the methods I used to construct this monstrosity. Please let me know A.S.A.P. Thanks.

 

[latecurtis]

I did not get to see your post until now. Already too late now if I screwed something up. Regular brakes will work in the front right? Please let me know. I'll try to check the post again later if I can. Thanks Latecurtis out.

 

[latecurtis]

 

[DrkAngel]

Try larger pictures!
Not enough detail to recognize what you're doing.
Pictures at 12% are less than 100k.
Try 25%. That should still be less than 512k.

 

[DAND214]

As DA says BIGGER.
Can't see what you did. All taped up.

You killed 2 6s packs, HOW?

If you just twisted together, I don't think it will work long.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

 

[latecurtis]

Wont do 20% Have tried. Try opening in windows paint to enlarge if you can.This tablet is like 8 million megapixel I think. Post wont accept more than 12%. I have tried. The wires were twisted together good lots of electrical tape was used and lots of thin strips of gorilla tape was used . Its crude but should work. None of the plugs matched up . I hope you can enlarge the pictures with a program to see them. I will hold off until tomorrow to hook up the charger. I really want this done soon and hope someone can change that 512 limit on these pictures. That is ridiculous. If they want to save space just delete some pictures after they have been viewed. You can enlarge them and still have good quality but on a desktop or laptop will need a program. The tablet does it with your fingers. I'll be at the library tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks Latecurtis out.