New Jersey bans direct sales of TESLA

[aroundqube]

The legislation was passed that all new cars sales in NJ have to be through dealerships. There are 2 Tesla sales locations operating in NJ.

 

[Ykick]

My coworker lives in NJ but luckily got his Tesla last year.

Yeah, this is the land (NJ/NY) of payoffs and corruption. Remember eBikes are still very much illegal in NY. Politicians from this area should be doused with their precious oil/gasoline and set on fire....

 

[Hillhater]

What is the (legal definition) difference between a "dealership" , and a "sales location" ??

 

[neptronix]

Free market loving republicans as usual.

 

[LockH]

So, where's the party? I'm going dressed as the King of Prussia (King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, where there is a Tesla dealership, only 60m approx. away from NJ.)

 

[Dauntless]

What is the (legal definition) difference between a "dealership" , and a "sales location" ??

Oh, it's like the difference between Republican and Democrat. You register as one, people treat you differently because of it, if need be you switch to being the other. I wonder what this "Franchise Agreement State License" costs.

I'm sure the RATIONALIZATION for this is Antitrust. The model for it being the age of the Hollywood movie studios owning their own distribution companies and their own theaters. The government told them they'd have to give up one or the other. Decades later the studios openly wept over having kept their distribution companies but sold off their theaters. I bet the excuse is they want to force Elon to cut in a middle man.

MIT Technology Review called Tesla the 2nd smartest company. I'll bet Elon cringed. '2nd?? That SMARTS!'

http://www2.technologyreview.com/tr50/2014/

http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/524541/driving-innovation/

 

[Grey beard]

Free market loving republicans as usual.

I don't understand why people say things like that. The laws of New Jersey are written by the legislature, which both houses are controlled by democrats, not by their jerk of a Govenor.
Most of these types of laws are to handicap manufacturers, like it is doing to Tesla. Free market would be a boon to Tesla.

 

[spinningmagnets]

There was a joke I heard from a comedian that travelled a lot. One night he was in a town that would not sell beer on Sunday, and he was told this after he had already brought some beer up to the cash register. Upon being informed about the ordinance, he replied..."but mouthwash is still OK, right?" [The store carried a brand of mouthwash that was 20% alcohol]

When New York banned super jumbo Xtra large sodas from being sold at fast food outlets, my immediate thought was that..."I can still buy two larges, right?"

What is New Jerseys plan for New Jerseyans who buy a lightly-used Tesla, one that was recently bought in New York? [or some other nearby state]. When VW diesels (that got 50-MPG, BTW) were not allowed to be bought new in California, the VW dealership in Nevada (Las Vegas) suddenly had a boom in VW diesel sales, which were then sold in California as a used vehicle.

 

[Grey beard]

A similar thing was happening in the Pacific Northwest. Canadian dealers were driving new cars down to the big auto action in the Seattle area. I don't remember if the exchange rate had anything to do with it, but dealers in the Northwest were able to buy at considerable discount compared to buying through their franchised channels, and offer cars with less than 500 miles on them for thousands less. The only bugaboo was that many US companies wouldn't warrantee cars that came out off Canada and the dealers had to furnish aftermarket warrantees.

 

[melodious]

If I lived in NJ, I'd just buy a Tesla from another state, say DE or PA. I think DE charges no state tax. I'm not too savvy on car salesmanship so I'm not entirely sure if there are special fees for buying a vehicle outside of your residence. :?

 

[Dauntless]

If I lived in NJ, I'd just buy a Tesla from another state, say DE or PA. I think DE charges no state tax. I'm not too savvy on car salesmanship so I'm not entirely sure if there are special fees for buying a vehicle outside of your residence. :?

When you register the car in your home state, there's the big fee. So much for no sales tax.

 

[liveforphysics]

When did capitalism involve restricting the path through which something like a vehicle is sold?

I bet in China they will not only sell wildly, but not have these issues with getting them where people may wish to purchase them.

It's like they proving it's a lobbyist-interest-run system entirely, because if you asked any citizen they allegedly are paid to 'represent', they would tell you they of course are not opposed to someone who wishes to buy a Tesla being capable of purchasing it online and having it delivered to there door. It's not like that a danger to society or something, it is only corruption that would lead to it's prohibition.

 

[Frank]

The power of lobbyists...

 

[gogo]

The power of lobbyists...

In any 'time of war' otherwise unhealthy alliances are formed between government and industry. Uncoupling the entities should be considered as much of an 'emergency' as that which caused the initial coupling, but when there is so much 'war', the task becomes overwhelming.

Eternal vigilance means effort that needs to be expended before crappy laws and government action take place. We have mechanisms to keep the crappy laws and government action in check, but when exercised after the fact such effort is too onerous and that leads to crappy laws and government action growing like a virus.

Its just human nature that has repeated itself throughout history. Here we go again.

 

[LockH]

Yah. Watt GoGoGo said. According to one theory, if ya can't succeed in biz, no problem, be a politician. Simple job, promise the voter the moon to get re-elected (and then perhaps make a lot of excuses... to EVeryone).

 

[Dauntless]

When did capitalism involve restricting the path through which something like a vehicle is sold?

You mean 'When did America become THAT socialist?' Over time, it's called 'Creeping Socialism.' I remember senior year of high school, this kid whose father was a college professor of Government. He gets up and gives HIS opinions on socialism, my favorite being about how 'Creeping Socialism' is "Impossible." Sure it is.

I bet in China they will not only sell wildly, but not have these issues with getting them where people may wish to purchase them.

Or 'When did China become Capitalist in our place?' Basically about the time we became Socialism in THEIR place.

It's like they proving it's a lobbyist-interest-run system entirely, because if you asked any citizen they allegedly are paid to 'represent', they would tell you they of course are not opposed to someone who wishes to buy a Tesla being capable of purchasing it online and having it delivered to there door. It's not like that a danger to society or something, it is only corruption that would lead to it's prohibition.

Socialism abhors change. It will subsidize things staying the same, no matter how great a failure. But especially it's about the power to make you do it THEIR way. The real story there is that Jersey could well introduce a bill to defray the cost of setting up Tesla dealerships. What do the citizens they are allegedly representing have to do with anything? Babysitters are paid to take care of the kids, NOT obey them. How do you imagine politicians see you? If you complain you're an obstacle to them consolidating more power.

 

[neptronix]

I wish i could describe our economic system as anything other than fascism, but that's what we live under.

America has dropped down to #14 on the economic freedom index recently.

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Countries thought of as being more on the socialist side have leapfrogged us ..

What's capitalism? we don't know.. visit Hong Kong and find out

When did capitalism involve restricting the path through which something like a vehicle is sold?

 

[TheBeastie]

I would say it's more of a political move since it does little to prevent buyers from buying elsewhere.
I am assuming this it to support car lot jobs. Car sale lots came to be like a lot of things because all money was handed over psychically in one way or the other and the internet didn't exist.
I guess you can argue it's an example where socialism is hard to make work because people are still free to buy directly in any other city and thus the only way it could work is if it the law was country wide.

Sometimes I wonder how long it will before before business owners can just buy the full complete "IPhone Receptionist App" plug it in where their worker used to sit and it will happily take all phone calls with voice recognition and schedule all appointments etc like a breeze. Using only a mere 10Wh per day on the latest super efficient 64 bit Apple CPU.

What then, make it illegal to use such apps in the support of all those to be lost jobs? Have a complex set of rules of where it can be used such as it can't be used in all traditional recpeitionest jobs? People could argue that consumers would just take their purchases overseas where they could get it cheaper cos they wouldn't have to pay for that extra bottom line cost of the receptionist wage.
It's an evil sight we are all going to be looking down the barrel of sooner or later.

One thing it reminds me of is once I was watching on a American business channel and this guy from Westinghouse or something similar was saying how they are in sales talks with the Chinese to build them the latest gen nuclear reactors that need far far less people then old ones... I just couldn't help but imagine these Chinese leaders under pressure to create more jobs thinking "wtf? can we ask for the reactor model that utilizes maximum jobs instead?, this low job reactor sounds like a problem.. "
I would agree if everyone is happy why not? At the moment no one ever thinks that Chinese need to cut more jobs to become more efficient, so you could argue they got ideal factors in their economy.

I can't help but feel technology is going to force some kind of socialism style system because it has the ability to take so many jobs people never thought could go. Who knows maybe with the latest computing power, computers can come up with a socialist model that will work and where everyone is happy.

Sometimes I imagine being the leader of a country where things are being run under the guise of absolute maximum economy efficiency/freedom and capitalism as in very little rules to protect people. So I thought well why not increase efficiency and take people who are past 60years old to retirement and send them to a processing facility to have their nutrients extracted for everyone else who are delivering maximum benefits to our economy, we then free up their living space for younger stronger people..

I do see pure refined capitalism should run exactly that way, if it shows to be more economically efficient that way why not enforce it? The only reason such rules don't exist is because of evil socialism.

OK I am just rambling like a nut, I guess the best way to show and explain capitalism is via this video.
[youtube]hBO0VsYFsgw[/youtube]

 

[liveforphysics]

Hong Kong is the only city I visit where I'm continually assuming various parking-lots must be having a carshow for exotic supercars occuring, but then I notice there's no people standing around, and it's actually just the parking-lot for a sushi-bar or whatever.


Interesting how HK's government interference on bussiness is operated. Things naturally thrive when left to be with no interference.

"Hong Kong is very open to international commerce, with a 0 percent average tariff rate and few barriers to foreign investment. A robust and transparent investment framework, in place for many years, continues to attract foreign investment. The financial sector remains highly competitive and well capitalized, serving as a leading global hub. There are no restrictions on foreign banks, which are treated the same as domestic banks."

 

[wineboyrider]

@Dauntless: it's known as fabian socialism.
This really makes me want too puke. It's kind of like the wine business in the USA, 50 states of different regulations and laws.... When we have strayed so far from the original constitution's true intention of the commerce clause. Nowadays the commerce clause is used to justify the governments rights over individuals with no regard for the 9th amendment.....

 

[Dauntless]

Hong Kong is the only city I visit where I'm continually assuming various parking-lots must be having a carshow for exotic supercars occuring, but then I notice there's no people standing around, and it's actually just the parking-lot for a sushi-bar or whatever.

(Sigh) Sounds like heaven to me. http://irvine.carsandcoffee.info/

They destroy Utopia to create socialism, do these people really appreciate that they're moving in the direction of Utopia by destroying socialism?

Interesting how HK's government interference on bussiness is operated. Things naturally thrive when left to be with no interference.

When I was in the 8th grade I did a report on the growth of the railroads in the 19th century. You could teach the history of the railroads as an economics class. But what happens with people is as soon as there's one bad guy doing something over here, that makes ALL people in such a business bad. The attitude toward the railroads at the time is a perfect example.

When the corrupt New York City government tried to make up their budget shortfall by shorting Cornelius "Commodore" Vanderbilt's railroad stock, (And pocket some of it among themselves personally) Vanderbilt did something that got him villified publicly - He bought up his stock to keep the price from falling. LIterally the NYC government was guilty of stock manipulation that would land anyone who is NOT government in prison, yet they howled foul play when Commodore kept the public from losing their shirts by him losing all of his own. I'm amazed at all that was said about him at the time, then again I'm not.

it's known as fabian socialism.

Oh darn, this is one of those nitpicking things: Fabianism is considered the DELIBERATE effort by avowed socialists, such as Martin Luther King, except King was probably too demonstrative for the Fabians, who want to avoid battles. Creeping socialism is opposed by Progressives and supported by Liberals who rankle at the socialist tag placed on them. The idea is that creeping socialism is an accident, not what the liberals intended but their actions take us down the road to it. Truly odd, considering that socialism itself is CONSERVATIVE. But we don't have what the world considers true conservatives here. On planet earth, Republicans are Progressives and even coined the term, Democrats are Liberals. (Ronald Reagan was a Progressive as a Democrat who became a 'NeoLiberal' as a Republican. Jerry Brown was a socialism hating Progressive Democrat during his first Governorship, suddenly he's a creeping socialist in his return.)

It's kind of like the wine business in the USA, 50 states of different regulations and laws.... When we have strayed so far from the original constitution's true intention of the commerce clause. Nowadays the commerce clause is used to justify the governments rights over individuals with no regard for the 9th amendment.....

So people don't get it when they hear the business people crying for regulation from the federal government. What they're asking for is STANDARDS. Gasoline nationally will someday be just like California, certain additives that help with the disappation, etc., but for the time being there's different gas all over the country. Some states haven't even figured out HOW to regulate certain manufacturing that isn't occuring in their state yet, woe be the company who decides to move there.

What's funny is that the Romance novel 'Atlas Shrugged' is based on actual U.S. history. It just turned out worse in Ayn Rand's telling. But Abraham Lincoln would be the attorney who defended Dagny Taggert's grandfather in that bridge incident that is told about. Stainless Steel would be Rearden metal, making it possible for trains to exceed 100 miles an hour in the 1930's and touching off all sorts of demands that the east coast be protected from the midwest and all the opportunity this undeveloped region offered now that you could get there in a day. Luckily the protectionism didn't work out nearly so well in real life as it did in the novel, but it did make things worse than they had to be.

Like Hank Rearden, Henry Ford mocked them time and again as they just kept dragging him into court, testifying as to his defiance of them even holding these court proceedings and winning as a result. John D. Rockefeller lacked Ford's flair, resulting in him being ordered to break up Standard Oil. He spoke scornfully of that order making him a fortune he had tried to avoid making, prices ROSE as his various departments competed with each other rather than working together. Pennzoil, Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, Conoco, Sohoio, plus several companies that became part of British Petroleum were created. Rockefeller's net worth grew from under $200 million to nearly a Billion in less than a decade.

In some cases, it takes a monopoly. Do you really believe that competing companies could have built American phone service? When the government finally forced the breakup of "Ma Bell," there would within months be congressional hearings, with one notorious public figure of a politician demanding to know "Why did my $4/month phone bill go to over $30/month?" Because now there were more companies that would need to make a profit. This is what will happen to the price of a Tesla.

So in the late 1800's the socialists declared war on the railroads. Such a strange target, people left dead end jobs for the more profitable world of transportation, which hired even the illiterate and unskilled. Even former slaves began building fortunes on trains. The names escape me, but major name people got there start as uneducated railroad employees. But the railroads had benefitted from the fact that anyone with large land holdings, be it the Federal Government, the individual states, the local Cities, even individuals, would give land grants along their property, better yet right through the middle of it, so that the remaining land would soar in value once the train was travelling through it. The housing boom of the beginning of the 21st century paled in comparison to the 1860-70's, a time when the prices really didn't drop back down again afterward. Not every railroad did well, nor was everyone happy to see the railroads become profitable as land could be farmed or timber cut now that transportation was available to bring it to market. Everyone else was a good American at work, but the railroads were "Robber Barons."

But on a prearranged date, the socialists attacked and burned train stations, beat passengers and killed loyal employees (Some sources say that includes Edward McCarty, the father of 'Billy the Kid') tore up tracks, blew up locomotives and cars by the thousands -- All because some of the railroads were paying their bills on time and were paying off the investors who had made the business possible. The socialists cited this as proof that it didn't matter that the railroad employees were already comfortable, the investors and debtors could be stiffed to give the employees even more. There were also railroads that indeed were in bankruptcy and the bills WEREN'T getting paid, although the employees still were. They were attacked too. The ultimate solution to the problem was called "The RIFLE diet."

Meanwhile, in the 1880's the Pullman Palace car company built a company town for its' better employees. If you would subscribe to a better quality of living, perhaps give up getting drunk and riding through town shooting into the air, you could rent a home in the Pullman district of Chicago. During the Panic (Recession) of 1893 Pullman converted a number of positions from fulltime to 'Piecework,' at higher hourly pay but less than fulltime. The resulting strike brought the interference of the U.S. Government, who ordered that Pullman sell the Pullman community because, well, because the U.S. Government has always appeased socialists. Creeping socialism.

Employees had waited their turn to move to a Pullman house. The streets were kept clean, the houses remained like new. Once the City of Chicago bought the community from Pullman, the maintenance ended. For a people who are forever in search of Utopia, the Socialists sure go to work at destroying anything that might resemble it. With the neighborhoods in shambles, the City of Chicago sold the individual houses, which became so run down the area would eventually become the target of 'Gentrification,' as the poor were forced out and the monied class that moved in reclaimed the former glory of the Pullman days. Cities in Michigan, West Virginia and Washington were named Pullman to emulate what had once been a model community. . . .

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Free market loving republicans as usual.

Really?

Even though we have a "Republican" Governor here, the legislature is dominated by Democrats. This is definitely not a "Republican" thing and it is certainly not a Free Market thing. If you want to know who is to blame for this fiasco, then blame the progressives. They have been in control in New Jersey for decades.

As far as the difference between a sales location and a dealership is concerned, a sales location is simply a place where they are sold. A dealership is a middle-man between the manufacturer and the customer. The sales locations in New Jersey were owned by Tesla, the manufacturer; not a third party dealer.

This is a stupid law.

One of my customers has one and the thing is awesome!!!!

Gotta love the Garden State.

The good news is that one of my customers is a retired cop and gave me a PBA card and sticker for my bike so even if do get pulled over, nothing will happen, I will just get a stern "talkin' to". His friend was the chief of police in a different town and gave me an FOP card as well.

 

[wineboyrider]

I don't think it really matters much as both parties are just as corrupt, but yes the Democrats have been in charge in New Jersey for a while now along with the mafia, liquor distributors and apparently car dealers

 

[aroundqube]

New law is in effect. http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/03/tesla_recharged_christie_signs_law_to_restart_elec.html Note that this new law applies only to zero emission vehicles manufactures that were licensed by NJ prior to Jan 1,2014 .

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Although this law is technically a win, it is still a bad law. What it does is only allow Tesla to sell cars directly in New Jersey. So, If I were to start a car company, I would not be able to sell them here in NJ. So basically Tesla has no competition. This is never good. No other car company can sell directly in NJ. I guess it is a step in the right direction but it stifles competition and it is not really fair the other car companies.