New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[casainho]

Unfortunately my display was not getting any data. I am thinking maybe my cable was wrong
I don't have throttle so I used the colors for 6 pin.
Can you Check if the wiring looks ok. This is from the back of the connector from the ktlcd3 that plugs into the motor display socket.

Please make sure that your cable is 6 or 8 pins (forget about throttle because it may confuse you now).
I wired my ebikes and I have 6 and 8 pins controllers.
If it continues to not working, try to swap UART TX and RX pins....

 

[eyebyesickle]

Whoooooo im excited to see my puny human power output on one of these KTLCD3!!

So, eventually the plan is to prep prewired controllers and KTLCD3's that are preflashed and ready to drop in a TSDZ2... but for now I am just testing... I figured, if we have to wire a new display... what would be the best route... I'll show you all what I worked out tomorrow! I just wanted to share this right now

I added an extra connector, and you can see where I am tucking the old one. Was kind of a pain to splice the wires right where they come out and are sealed, not much room, especially if you still want the cover to lay flat. I covered up my ugly work with piece of tape! hahahaha - it's just for testing I swear :lol:

 

[casainho]

Further testing of our Flexible OpenSource firmwares

Me, girlfriend and other friends, we went to mountains for a few days and we did long and very steep roads -- other than my ebike, for the first time my girlfriend ebike was running our Flexible OpenSource firmwares. We did about 200kms.

One of the friends had no ebike and my girlfriend did tow with his ebike, as seen on the picture!! The weather temperature was very hot at about 42 degrees and because of all this, the TSDZ2 motor got hot and we had to make some rest.

Since it was a long ride, it was very important the advanced features of our Flexible OpenSource firmwares were we limited most of the time the motor electric power to be max of 200W and that way we could ride for a few hours to our destiny.
I wounder if our firmware could do the real time calculation of motor max efficiency and show to user when he should shift up or down the mechanical gears of the ebike... does anyone knows how can we do that calculation? I guess we should used battery current and motor speed in RPM...

Our trip went very well, TSDZ2 working perfectly with our Flexible OpenSource firmwares

 

[casainho]

Whoooooo im excited to see my puny human power output on one of these KTLCD3!!

So, eventually the plan is to prep prewired controllers and KTLCD3's that are preflashed and ready to drop in a TSDZ2...

So you are using our improved original firmware, because our flexible and OpenSource firmware does not yet implement the show of human power... because it is not a priority for now and it needs more testing, like what happens when different users has the motor on different rotation from others, when they install on the BB frame?? does the readings make sense? do we need to calibrate the readed value on each installation??

Since you are on the business side, would be great if you could provide feedback for the flexible OpenSource firmware and do some tecnhical advanced tests/validations against the original firmware.

 

[tomtom50]

Whoooooo im excited to see my puny human power output on one of these KTLCD3!!

So, eventually the plan is to prep prewired controllers and KTLCD3's that are preflashed and ready to drop in a TSDZ2...

So you are using our improved original firmware, because our flexible and OpenSource firmware does not yet implement the show of human power... because it is not a priority for now and it needs more testing, like what happens when different users has the motor on different rotation from others, when they install on the BB frame?? does the readings make sense? do we need to calibrate the readed value on each installation??

Since you are on the business side, would be great if you could provide feedback for the flexible OpenSource firmware and do some tecnhical advanced tests/validations against the original firmware.

Eyebyesickle
Good idea to sell parts to run open source firmware. I personally want to try it but don't have the time or the skill to follow and understand all the info out there developed by casainho and others. The nasty cable is a great start.

Casainho
A problem I have is that there is no organized place to go to understand what you have done at a higher level. For example it is important that "using our improved original firmware, because our flexible and OpenSource firmware does not yet implement the show of human power" is the case. But I would not know where to look to figure that out. I personally would upgrade to the KTLCD3 if there were clear instructions and I did not have to cobble up a multi-conductor cable that is exposed to the elements. The features I care about are battery V, input power from torque sensor, output power, and cadence. So I guess that would be the improved original firmware. Thanks for all

 

[Daytriker]

I wish I live in a country like that.
In my country, Portugal, because police has no resources, everyone drives cars and passing the legal limit speed and talking at mobile phones -- it is very dangerous and there are always news of people that get dead by cars because of that :-(
Also I wish police could ensure that gas cars and motorcycle do no emit over limit of fumes amd noise.
[/quote]

And what is with Portugal's National Obsession to tailgate? In ANY kind of weather? 140 kms/hr in a driving rain on the way to the Algarve & I'm being tailgated. haha - We pulled off at the next truck stop & waited for the weather to improve. I think everyone there thinks they are Formula One Drivers!

 

[pawepie]

Love the photo of your girlfriend tucked screaming down the road, and of you pouring water on the motor.

Could this give you some insight as to the equation?
From: http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator1/img/efficiency_equation.gif
The efficiency is calculated from the input power to the controller divided by the output power (it does not take into account the losses internal to the battery pack):

Then take the derivative of that, set it equal to zero to find the point of maximum efficiency and display a real-time number corresponding to an indicator of efficiency percentage?

 

[John and Cecil]

And what is with Portugal's National Obsession to tailgate? In ANY kind of weather? 140 kms/hr in a driving rain on the way to the Algarve & I'm being tailgated. haha - We pulled off at the next truck stop & waited for the weather to improve. I think everyone there thinks they are Formula One Drivers!

Everyone speeds and tailgates in California too, however in California the drivers are also skilled with mental telepathy and therefore they do not need (nor do they use) turn signals.

 

[pawepie]

Anyone else having problems flashing the .hex files?

On Linux, using stm8flash I get Error while parsing IHEX at line 1, and in Windows I get "Error : FILE : line 1: Not in Intel Hex format!" under STVP.

 

[jbalat]

Anyone else having problems flashing the .hex files?

On Linux, using stm8flash I get Error while parsing IHEX at line 1, and in Windows I get "Error : FILE : line 1: Not in Intel Hex format!" under STVP.

Watch my video on how to flash the LCD Display. I'm guessing its the way you are downloading the file. Make sure you right click where is says RAW and download it from there. Also Casinho mentions you need to flash while the 105x6 is selected and not the x4.

 

[casainho]

Anyone else having problems flashing the .hex files?

On Linux, using stm8flash I get Error while parsing IHEX at line 1, and in Windows I get "Error : FILE : line 1: Not in Intel Hex format!" under STVP.

Recently I flashed the hex files of v0.2 and it worked, on Linux. But the option bytes hex files for some reason fails (this file is only needed for the motor controller) and I need to use the bin file instead -- I hope that on Windows you guys can find a solution to that...

 

[jbalat]

Ok guys it was the rx and tx which needs to be swapped. Would appreciate if the documentation can be fixed.
This is the correct wiring for the 6 pin connector from the lcd3 to the motor. This is looking from the back of the lcd3 connector.

 

[casainho]

Ok guys it was the rx and tx which needs to be swapped. Would appreciate if the documentation can be fixed.

I want to put the documentationon the wiki.

Do you wantto start writing o the wiki? I am away from home and willtake me some weeks untill I arrive.

 

[jbalat]

Ok guys it was the rx and tx which needs to be swapped. Would appreciate if the documentation can be fixed.

I want to put the documentationon the wiki.

Do you wantto start writing o the wiki? I am away from home and willtake me some weeks untill I arrive.

I can give it a go I guess ? How do I get access ?
Hey how hard is it to implement walk mode. I use it a lot going up stairs from the subway in the city.

 

[pawepie]

I recall pointing that out: I will try to add that when I get a chance (hopefully this evening!)! I was unable to flash the v5 firmware (improved original hex) as i want lights and human power functionality back until the open source firmware can support it. I could probably figure out to code/copy the human power bit, but probably not the lights bit.

 

[casainho]

Ok guys it was the rx and tx which needs to be swapped. Would appreciate if the documentation can be fixed.

I want to put the documentationon the wiki.

Do you wantto start writing o the wiki? I am away from home and willtake me some weeks untill I arrive.

I can give it a go I guess ? How do I get access ?
Hey how hard is it to implement walk mode. I use it a lot going up stairs from the subway in the city.

I changed the options so that anyone with a gitbub account should be able to write on wiki. Can you please try?

Ok, I will need to implement but it is something that will need some tweaking, some time.

I used a throttle to simulate that function.

 

[eyebyesickle]

Alright,

I have been thinking about doing this for a while - and I got the extra push I needed ~ casianho's work. I have not got to play with the improved original, nor the new firmware, but will be biting into that soon.

For now, I made 2 adapters - 1 from the TSDZ2 - which is a 8 pin female plug, instead of the 8 pin male plug that comes stock. I switched the pinout to be compatible with the BBS Harness. The second adapter connects the BBS wiring harness 5 pin display port back to the TSDZ2 6 pin display port (although, missing the BRK line, which is not needed).

I tested at 52v with the VLCD-5, VLCD-6, and XH-18. All work flawlessly, with the various BBS throttles/brakes/brake sensors.

I really like this because once you hook up the BBS harness to the TSDZ2, you can use whatever BBS throttle/brake you want, which are much more readily available.

This is also a nice way to add throttle and brakes to the VLCD-6, or the XH-18. Until now, there was only a splitter that allowed the addition of a throttle, but the addition of a throttle just screams for the addition of E-brakes.

With the VLCD-5 (6-pin), you can no longer use the ports in the back with the BBS harness, as they are not connected anymore - but it is still compatible and you can use the throttle and brake ports from the BBS harness instead of the VLCD-5 Display back ports.

I really am loving this setup, and the ability to use throttle and brakes with whatever display - BUT - the next step for me is to get a KT-LCD3 w/ 5 pin higo, and plug er in!!!! (after flashing the firmware etc). That's what this is about. I also wanted to try the Eggrider - as I love that tiny display, but that may prove to be a challenge.

I got some of the same displays as Eggrider straight from the manufacturer (base simple programming, no bluetooth etc) and was hoping to convince someone to hack that up for us all =) ehehee

Anyway, I can post the pinout conversion etc if anyone wants to use a BBS harness with the TSDZ2 - it was a bit more of a pain than I anticipated!!!

That's all for me now, I think next update maybe I can have the KT-LCD3 plugged in!

Wheeeeeeeeee

 

[casainho]

I really like this because once you hook up the BBS harness to the TSDZ2, you can use whatever BBS throttle/brake you want, which are much more readily available.

Yes, I did that for myself, using the brake sensors and throttles I had in stock that I bought on BMSBattery site, that I use for KT motor controllers.

The true is that TSDZ2 can use any cheap generic throttle and brake sensors.

And about brake sensors, there are at least 3 types and that work with TSDZ2:
- brake levers with sensor included (brake signal + GND)
- hidden brake sensor (brake signal + 5V + GND)
- magnet sensor to glue on bicycle original hidraulic brake levers (brake signal + GND)

 

[Rydon]

Anyway, I can post the pinout conversion etc if anyone wants to use a BBS harness with the TSDZ2 - it was a bit more of a pain than I anticipated!!!

Yes, please post the pinout! Also, is there a source for the female connector?

And oh, nice work! I have been thinking of doing the same thing.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Guys, can we use electronics conventions when talking about connectors and showing pin outs. Always map the connector as though you are looking at the front and not from the rear, then differentiate the type of connector by calling it a socket ( female ) or plug ( male, just think of anatomy, the male inserts into the female socket ).

I have the STlink and the LCD3 so will give a bit of time to having a go at programming soonish when time allows.

 

[bowzette]

I am studying e-assist motor options for installing on a recumbent trike. I know very little about e-assist motors. I have a few questions that may be answered somewhere in this 123 page thread. I may eventually read all 123+ pages but great over kill for a few basic questions. Well over-kill for a lazy guy

1. As of motors shipped in 2018 do they come adequately greased from the factory or is it prudent for better gear life to pull the parts out that require grease and re-grease?
2. Is it worth buying and installing the bronze gear replacing the nylon blue gear for longer gear life at the cost of more noise? If the blue gear is kept greased does it have a sufficient useful life or just less hassle to replace it with the bronze gear initially?
3. I see some early 2016 comments discuss the toque sensor maybe being too sensitive in that it was reading sections of the pedal stroke spots where the rider is producing less power causing a reduction in torque the motor was supplying resulting in a non smooth or jerky 360 degree pedal stroke. Has this been fixed if it was a problem initially? Seems like increasing the delay in the senor would be an easy factory fix.
4. I live in central Texas and it get hot-really hot. I don't ride in the high heat of the day but it is in the high 80s often by the end of the ride. Is there a problem with the motor over-heating? Is there a safety motor shut off to protect it? If I keep the rpm up like 80+ rpms does this help avoid heating issues? Is a 350 watt motor less likely to over-heat than a 750 watt motor or will the larger watt motor run cooler? Maybe amount of wattage of motor doesn't matter as to over-heating? I don't plan on turning the trike into a go-cart. I want the same level or better workout working hard pedaling I just want to go faster. I anticipate most of my riding at lower levels of assist and I don't climb long hills.

 

[John and Cecil]

I am studying e-assist motor options for installing on a recumbent trike.

I am not sure about greasing the bearings, I believe at least some of them are sealed bearings so you cannot get grease into them.

People that replace the vinyl gear with a metal one have been greasing the motor gears due to increased wear from metal on metal. Grease probably won't help the vinyl gear as it's issue is not wear but failure due to not meshing properly and becoming damaged due to short bursts of high amounts of torque. Lower wattage motors and power output will probably have less blue gear issues.

Our motor seems fairly smooth but I do notice the power fluctuate a little on the pedal strokes, perhaps the newer firmware adresses this but it does not seem like a problem, at least for me.

The 250w and 750 are pretty much the same motor. 36v and 48v motors have different motor windings so they will run at similar rpms at 36v and 48v. The more power you throw at the motor the more heat that will build up. I have never overheated my 750w motor and we mostly ride in temps between 70 - 85 degrees with a lot of fairly steep hills, but I maintain at least 80% max rpms when cruising. The lower you run the amps and watts the less likely it will overheat. And if you keep the motor rpms up in the upper 20% or so the motor will run cooler. The motor has a power distribution curve and it draws more power at lower rpms and reduces power at higher rpms.

ps - 25% USA tariff is apparently kicking in very, very soon, whatever motor you plan on buying you better order it asap.

 

[Daytriker]

I am studying e-assist motor options for installing on a recumbent trike. I know very little about e-assist motors. I have a few questions that may be answered somewhere in this 123 page thread. I may eventually read all 123+ pages but great over kill for a few basic questions. Well over-kill for a lazy guy

1. As of motors shipped in 2018 do they come adequately greased from the factory or is it prudent for better gear life to pull the parts out that require grease and re-grease?
2. Is it worth buying and installing the bronze gear replacing the nylon blue gear for longer gear life at the cost of more noise? If the blue gear is kept greased does it have a sufficient useful life or just less hassle to replace it with the bronze gear initially?
3. I see some early 2016 comments discuss the toque sensor maybe being too sensitive in that it was reading sections of the pedal stroke spots where the rider is producing less power causing a reduction in torque the motor was supplying resulting in a non smooth or jerky 360 degree pedal stroke. Has this been fixed if it was a problem initially? Seems like increasing the delay in the senor would be an easy factory fix.
4. I live in central Texas and it get hot-really hot. I don't ride in the high heat of the day but it is in the high 80s often by the end of the ride. Is there a problem with the motor over-heating? Is there a safety motor shut off to protect it? If I keep the rpm up like 80+ rpms does this help avoid heating issues? Is a 350 watt motor less likely to over-heat than a 750 watt motor or will the larger watt motor run cooler? Maybe amount of wattage of motor doesn't matter as to over-heating? I don't plan on turning the trike into a go-cart. I want the same level or better workout working hard pedaling I just want to go faster. I anticipate most of my riding at lower levels of assist and I don't climb long hills.

Having had 3 out 4 of these TSDZ2 motor kits fail on trikes I wouldn't be installing them. My recommendation would be to make sure you install a system that takes into account several variables that can either provide you with a so-so Assist or one that gives you a satisfactory product good for years of service. To Answer your questions regarding the TSDZ2 -
Remove the covers & add liberal amounts of grease to the big motor gear. (You don't have to worry about bearings or complete disassembly)
The increase in noise from the brass gear is barely noticeable. (as long as it's greased)
I would re-grease every 750 kms with the Brass Gear
The Blue Gear is prone to failing. It starts clunking when turning over the motor.
Keep a spare gear or switch to Brass.
The Torque Sensor did seem to fluctuate but it was not a big negative
Running in hot temperatures under high torque conditions is likely to cause you problems
You should choose your motor size based on how much weight you are pulling.
350 watt motor is good for total weight under 300 lbs. - 750 watt motor is good for total weight under 400 lbs.
Maybe this guide will help - https://mid-islandadventures.weebly.com/electric-assist-kits.html

 

[bowzette]

Thanks Daytriker
Mike

 

[eyebyesickle]

Wow Daytriker - 3 out of 4 fail? What was the problem? Common issue with them all? Or individual issues?

I know of 3 or 4 trikes so far we have put these on, with practically no issues... Outside of a throttle getting soaked, but hard to count that against it...

Thanks for the input!