Daytriker said:Here is my experience with this TSDZ2 so far. 60 kms. Ridden on a Recumbent Trike by a 65 year old lady weighing all of 50kgs. Customer was complaining of a rattling sound coming from the motor. Partial Dis-assembly shown here - https://www.facebook.com/Daytriker/posts/1527484597314260?notif_t=like¬if_id=1502582537793728
Haven't heard back from BMS or the Tongsheng factory yet as to whether I should dismantle further or return the unit. Problem hasn't revealed itself yet but may be internal & I am waiting for their response before I do more than just remove covers.
Triketech said:I've been watching this topic a long time.
Last spring I ordered one from the factory, and made it clear I would be publishing an article about it.
(BTW, it was supposed to have 1M cables but came with short std cables, and built 3 days after the order.)
Summarizing what I've learned:
Tongsheng probably released the product a bit prematurely. Over time changes for cost & reliability while increasing power levels probably introduced a few new parts and software updates.
Early motors tended to make little gear noise, but louder motor noise typical of a Trapezoidal controller. Later motors tend to make loud gear noise, and less motor noise - although that may be masked by the gear noise. I haven't looked at the earlier versions, but on the one that was build for me last April (factory order) the secondary gear set (steel spur gears) have a Pressure Angle (PA) of about 12°, which is way, way wrong for this application; 20-22°. Low PA makes a stout tooth, and a lot of banging and sliding through the contact. Grease is the WRONG lube for this gear angle, needs to be a medium weight gear oil 75W. Teeth were formed on a shaper, and looking at the teeth at about 20X, an experienced eye can see burrs from a dull tool running too deep a cut on each chop.
If they all used this gear design, they would all sound like mine does.
Triketech said:Its unlikely Tongsheng makes their own gears. And when production ramps faster than Vendor A can produce components you add Vendor B. And sometimes that's a scramble for Procurement so they compromise quality for Vendor B. All hypothetical, yet the everyday life in the world of manufacturing.
Triketech said:It is a low budget drive that provides the bare essentials for light duty torque assisted boost, and nothing more. Great for some but not for all.
Triketech said:I think I'll stick with hubmotors on trikes after this.
Daytriker said:Actually Hub Motors can be more efficient than Crank Drives, it all depends on the design & efficiency. Direct Drive hub motors do not produce enough torque on their own for efficient hill climbing & that's why we have gears. Whether those gears are placed inside or outside the motor makes very little difference but the amount of losses to get the power to the ground in the final drive is where the advantage shows up. Having the ability to free wheel & coast without any cogging of the motor is a real advantage if you are staying within sane speed limits but high RPM motors still require big windings, magnets & mass which just doesn't make sense to go 20 mph/30kmh.
RTIII said:[
It's readily apparent to me you're not their target customer; you want a moped. And, your "bare essentials" is to me a superior sophistication. Apparently great for some, but not for all.
Hub motors suck at hill climbing and are not particularly efficient except at one speed. Mid-drives are great at hill climbing and the TSDZ2 has done truly wonderfully for me at that job. ... I'm guessing here - you ordered your unit in English; Maybe someday you'll forgive Tongsheng for their lack of fluency in English resulting in your short cables as perhaps you could have placed your order in Chinese.
Waynemarlow said:Hi, being a bit lazy here but way back in the thread one of the posters had said that he had had to reshim the drive side shaft as he had a bit too much play in it. Mine is the same and as I want to regrease it, I may as well deal with the problem ( almost like a conical bearing hasn't enough tension on it ). Looked back through the thread, but I can't seem to find the solution. Anybody remember where it was ?
Low drag with the BBS01, maybe a bit more with a BBS02. I never pedal my DD without lowest assist, but when I had tryed it w/o power it was quite a bit more drag.Daytriker said:I suggest you try spinning a brushless, geared hub motor & compare it to spinning a direct drive motor of the same approximate size & weight. It is like night & day. Try coasting with a direct drive motor & that's where you feel the drag. I don't have enough experience with the crank drives to claim that they are better or worse than hub motors but my limited exposure so far tells me that given a choice small, light weight brushless, geared hub motors offer a much more satisfying riding experience.
tomjasz said:Low drag with the BBS01, maybe a bit more with a BBS02. I never pedal my DD without lowest assist, but when I had tryed it w/o power it was quite a bit more drag.Daytriker said:I suggest you try spinning a brushless, geared hub motor & compare it to spinning a direct drive motor of the same approximate size & weight. It is like night & day. Try coasting with a direct drive motor & that's where you feel the drag. I don't have enough experience with the crank drives to claim that they are better or worse than hub motors but my limited exposure so far tells me that given a choice small, light weight brushless, geared hub motors offer a much more satisfying riding experience.
I need to have a day where I feel good enough, and get mine finished.RTIII said:Every time I'm out riding, I pedal my TSDZ2 equipped bike without power. Every Single Time. It has zero noticeable drag - it's at least as good as a quality rear cassette freehub, and silent, rather like my "Silent Clutch" Shimano freehub - no clicking.
dom48 said:Hello first post here and just wanted to share my conversion. Thanks to all the folks who contributed to this thread, the info has been invaluable!
I purchased the 48V 18A motor and 13.5 aH battery from eyebyesickle. His customer service is first class. This is my first e-bike and the goal was to have a good fast bike for my 28 mile round trip commute. The donor bike is a 2015 Giant Revolt. The rack is an Axiom unit and the lights are Amazon Cree XML LEDs I had laying around. Gearing is stock 48T 110bcd front ring from the Revolt and rear is 11-32T 10 speed. Tires are Schwalb Marathon Supreme in 700 x 40. I had to grind off the front derailleur cable stop to clear the rear motor mount screw but otherwise the motor mounted with zero issues. I put on platform pedals for testing but will install Shimano SPDs for the commute. Only did some test riding today but loving it so far. The TSDZ2 is very quiet and the assist is butter smooth.
The only issue is that the odometer reading is way off, seems to be recording at around 4-5 times the actual distance.
dom48 said:Hello first post here and just wanted to share my conversion. Thanks to all the folks who contributed to this thread, the info has been invaluable!
I purchased the 48V 18A motor and 13.5 aH battery from eyebyesickle. His customer service is first class. This is my first e-bike and the goal was to have a good fast bike for my 28 mile round trip commute. The donor bike is a 2015 Giant Revolt. The rack is an Axiom unit and the lights are Amazon Cree XML LEDs I had laying around. Gearing is stock 48T 110bcd front ring from the Revolt and rear is 11-32T 10 speed. Tires are Schwalb Marathon Supreme in 700 x 40. I had to grind off the front derailleur cable stop to clear the rear motor mount screw but otherwise the motor mounted with zero issues. I put on platform pedals for testing but will install Shimano SPDs for the commute. Only did some test riding today but loving it so far. The TSDZ2 is very quiet and the assist is butter smooth.
The only issue is that the odometer reading is way off, seems to be recording at around 4-5 times the actual distance.