New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[John and Cecil]

I wired up to the controller using and STLinkV2 clone, and with pinouts according casainho's development guide:https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development_tsdz2/Development_tools.html

(I think if I get a speedsensor cable (from PSWpower), I could splice it without having to remove the controller)

I got the rest of the information from this german site: (instruction on how to change the voltage...still have to figure out which are the amperage values)

https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/software-f%C3%BCr-tsdz2-sfm-du-250-350-mittelmotor-umbausatz.50939/

Sorry I took a while to reply - I've had issues with my computer and have been away for a bit.

Seems like there is further speculation early on in this thread too:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1239772#p1239772

If I have some time on the weekend, I will see if I can come up with anything else. Currently don't have a 52v battery as I'm re-spot welding a pre-made one, but also need to wait on some parts ;p

Thank you very much for your response. I will have to study all that and see if I am up to making my own custom usb to motor wire. I would like to be able to use full power 52v batteries, and also be able to use a couple of 6s batteries wired together in a series. I am not sure what battery we will be getting after we move to Europe but I would like to carry 2 6s 4ah batteries with me so we have at least some power until a larger batter can be purchased.


If anyone has an extra usb to motor controller wire with plugs and wants to trade for a new set of brake handles let me know! :wink:

 

[Bigwheel]

You may also have the option of taking a few mm's off one side of the bb with a grinder. I know...

The bb shell wasn’t the issue on my bike, it was the chainstay which ended up conforming to the housing while tightening the system in place.



As it sits the chain ring barely clears the lower cover and so it is as good as it gets for this bike and no room for improvement.

In this pic you can kind of see what I did to mount the new ring via the method I described earlier.



[moderator edit to fix pic link]

 

[John and Cecil]

Oh yes I see your problem No way to move that motor closer short of grinding off some of the motor housing, and even that may only yield a small amount. Maybe a custom cassette like a 6 speed moved all the way out away from the hub?

 

[casainho]

Finally!! I was able to disassembly the TSDZ2 motor controller original firmware.

The firmware is small, it should be possible for us (if we join our energies) to identify the code were battery voltage is configure in EEPROM, other codes, which codes the controller accepts sent by the LCD - can it accept configuration for current?? etc:

Original firmware disassembled file: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development_tsdz2/EmbeddedFiles/3-TSDZ2_original_firmware.asm

More info here: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development_tsdz2/Various--2018.04.18_-_original_firmware_and_debug_session_using_OpenOCD.html

 

[Bigwheel]

Oh yes I see your problem No way to move that motor closer short of grinding off some of the motor housing, and even that may only yield a small amount. Maybe a custom cassette like a 6 speed moved all the way out away from the hub?

There is no problem as I said it works just fine as it is. My benchmark for proper chainline is good alignment in the middle cog of the cassette relative to the chainring and it is close enough and even better than this pic shows




I like and use all 10 speeds to keep it “on the pipe” as we used to say back in the 125MX days.

 

[John and Cecil]

Sorry I must have confused you with someone else, I thought someone said they were lining up on the 11t cog. I am overworked today!

 

[emr]

Tested the capability of my 52v 14Ah (14s4p) battery today with the 52v 750w 'recycles-ebike' TSDZ2...

First segment of the battery gauge went at 40km, second at 52km, 3rd at 62km, 4th at 70km, 5th at 75km and 6th flashing at 78km. Just a wee bit of assistance at that stage so I rode another 2km and finished ride.

The assistance didn't seem to deteriorate much at all until approximately the 65km mark, then gradual, but not major reduction until 75km, where it become more noticeable until 80km where all the 'get and go' had got up and gone.

Rode mostly in 'Tour' and 'Speed' mode, with 'Turbo' only when on flat and open sections. Also did a few km around the velodrome with throttle only, at app 37 to 40kph. During the 80km, I was mostly only putting in about 60 to 80watts of human power, except a few hills where it was more like 160watts. Terrain was mostly flattish with a few small rises.

Average speed of 29kph for the 80km (due to numerous slow intersections), but generally cruising at mid 30's to 40 (kph).

Am pleased with the results, as that provides a very usable range.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Don't over think the chain line too much, the modern chains don't seem to worry to much about the misalignment. Do consider though the new Sunrace 8 speed 11 - 42, with the motor you can have wider gaps in the ratios and on a 42T front with 42T rear on a 27.5 + tyre I can climb anything that I wish to tackle and yet have reasonable top end range.

 

[AWD]

Don't over think the chain line too much, the modern chains don't seem to worry to much about the misalignment.

I don't think it is a matter of over thinking, but logical thinking, to try and achieve the best chainline possible in order to get the most life out of your chain. Drivetrain maintenance, and expense, is a constant feature of derailleur based systems and if upfront you can do something to aid in either dept. with a one time setup may be worth it. YMMV of course.

Mid drives are coming to be known as notoriously hard on the driveline in general but the chain is the key component that links it all together. The extra torque of the assist using bicycle rated chains is not something that the engineers that designed them accounted for. Sideloading of the chain while under torque is the #1 reason that chains "wear out" although there are other elements at play like ring and cog wear etc.. So in answer to this the chain companies are coming out with eBike rated chains. The cost of entry is however pretty high I find. Even regular decent chains have gotten to be $50 which more that twice what they used to be.

 

[wpenner]

Tested the capability of my 52v 14Ah (14s4p) battery today with the 52v 750w 'recycles-ebike' TSDZ2...

First segment of the battery gauge went at 40km, second at 52km, 3rd at 62km, 4th at 70km, 5th at 75km and 6th flashing at 78km. Just a wee bit of assistance at that stage so I rode another 2km and finished ride.

The assistance didn't seem to deteriorate much at all until approximately the 65km mark, then gradual, but not major reduction until 75km, where it become more noticeable until 80km where all the 'get and go' had got up and gone.

Rode mostly in 'Tour' and 'Speed' mode, with 'Turbo' only when on flat and open sections. Also did a few km around the velodrome with throttle only, at app 37 to 40kph. During the 80km, I was mostly only putting in about 60 to 80watts of human power, except a few hills where it was more like 160watts. Terrain was mostly flattish with a few small rises.

Average speed of 29kph for the 80km (due to numerous slow intersections), but generally cruising at mid 30's to 40 (kph).

Am pleased with the results, as that provides a very usable range.

Looks like the 14ah is really overkill waste of weight for this motor for most people. Too bad most venders are not selling a 6ah bottle battery.

 

[wpenner]

Tested the capability of my 52v 14Ah (14s4p) battery today with the 52v 750w 'recycles-ebike' TSDZ2...

First segment of the battery gauge went at 40km, second at 52km, 3rd at 62km, 4th at 70km, 5th at 75km and 6th flashing at 78km. Just a wee bit of assistance at that stage so I rode another 2km and finished ride.

The assistance didn't seem to deteriorate much at all until approximately the 65km mark, then gradual, but not major reduction until 75km, where it become more noticeable until 80km where all the 'get and go' had got up and gone.

Rode mostly in 'Tour' and 'Speed' mode, with 'Turbo' only when on flat and open sections. Also did a few km around the velodrome with throttle only, at app 37 to 40kph. During the 80km, I was mostly only putting in about 60 to 80watts of human power, except a few hills where it was more like 160watts. Terrain was mostly flattish with a few small rises.

Average speed of 29kph for the 80km (due to numerous slow intersections), but generally cruising at mid 30's to 40 (kph).

Am pleased with the results, as that provides a very usable range.

Looks like the 52v 14ah is really overkill waste of weight for this motor for most people. Too bad most venders are not selling a 6ah bottle battery. Maybe the Luna mini is the way to go.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I run a 6.6A 48V battery and running on off road and in the lower two modes easily get over 2 hours of use.

 

[hobbyvac]

I think you start to work the cells too hard on a 2P 6AH pack as far as amperage. Higher AH packs run in the comfort zone with good longevity if that matters to you. I know the battery life is relative to how hard you work them. I have a 5P 17.4AH pack which lasts me for 4 good rides or more. Im tempted to split it into a 3P and a 2P but again I think the 2P pack will get abused sometimes.

I think a 3P 9-10AH pack is the sweet spot for long life low weight and good range. One downside is that there are no good battery cases for smaller cell counts

I may build a super light 10S2P 10AH LIPO pack because they can handle way more amps.

 

[echew]

Hi everyone,

Quick question that I hope someone is able to help me with.

I live in NZ and it's a PITA to get things shipped here (and when you can you have to pay quite a bit import duty).

I've managed to find a decent TSDZ2 kit (48V 500W motor + 48V 14 Ah battery) already in the country for around NZD $1500 which seems fair to me and was about to order it.

The only thing holding me back is the fact that it doesn't come with a throttle.

The kit comes with the XH-18 controller.

My question is this - if, later, I wanted to add a throttle is it as simple as buying the VLCD5 controller plus a throttle cable?

Or is there something fundamental I'm missing?

Cheers for any help,

 

[wgtnpete]

Hi everyone,

Quick question that I hope someone is able to help me with.

I live in NZ and it's a PITA to get things shipped here (and when you can you have to pay quite a bit import duty).

I've managed to find a decent TSDZ2 kit (48V 500W motor + 48V 14 Ah battery) already in the country for around NZD $1500 which seems fair to me and was about to order it.

The only thing holding me back is the fact that it doesn't come with a throttle.

The kit comes with the XH-18 controller.

My question is this - if, later, I wanted to add a throttle is it as simple as buying the VLCD5 controller plus a throttle cable?

Or is there something fundamental I'm missing?

Cheers for any help,

Hi. I am also in NZ and have been running a TSDZ2 since October on my commuter. From my understanding, the connector coming off the motor controller is different for units with throttle, 8 pin instead of 6 pin, so you would also need to replace the controller, in addition to getting a vlcd5, throttle and brakes.

I got my unit from pswpower with a battery off aliexpress. Took a few weeks to come but no issues with NZ customs.

 

[echew]

Ah, really, that's interesting. Thanks for the reply and hi to a fellow kiwi!

Which model did you go for in the end? Do you find it's enough for your commuting? I'm in Christchurch which is pretty flat but would probably be looking at needing at least a 40km range.

I wonder how to find out which motor controller I would need for a throttle...

Edit: Aha, I guess this would be the sucker: http://recycles-ebike.com/tsdz-accessories/85-tongsheng-tsdz2-electric-bicycle-central-mid-motor-controller-for-replace-36v-250350w-tsdz2-mid-motor.html

So the list to add a throttle would be:

- A new 8-pin controller (NZD $50)
- The VLCD5 display (NZD $60)
- Throttle cable (NZD $30)
- Brake cable (NZD $30)

Hmm.... maybe I should just get the right kit in the first place!

 

[wgtnpete]

Ah, really, that's interesting. Thanks for the reply and hi to a fellow kiwi!

Which model did you go for in the end? Do you find it's enough for your commuting? I'm in Christchurch which is pretty flat but would probably be looking at needing at least a 40km range.

I wonder how to find out which motor controller I would need for a throttle...

Edit: Aha, I guess this would be the sucker: http://recycles-ebike.com/tsdz-accessories/85-tongsheng-tsdz2-electric-bicycle-central-mid-motor-controller-for-replace-36v-250350w-tsdz2-mid-motor.html

So the list to add a throttle would be:

- A new 8-pin controller (NZD $50)
- The VLCD5 display (NZD $60)
- Throttle cable (NZD $30)
- Brake cable (NZD $30)

Hmm.... maybe I should just get the right kit in the first place!

I have a 48v 500w model with vlcd5 but without the throttle and a 12.4ah battery. My commute is about 19km each way, flat on the way in, but up a steep hill for the last few kms on the home stretch. I can do the round trip on one charge, but it does start to sag a little at the end. I find the motor pretty responsive and have not missed having a throttle.

I tend to use the third level of assist 'Speed' as I have found that it overheats if you run it in 'Turbo' for too long and then it just shuts off. I cruise along in the mid to high 30s mostly, sometimes cracking 40 if the wind is on my side. I am 120kg though, so do get passed by smaller people on commerical ebikes and bafang conversions.

I have done minor upgrades, such as a KMC ebike chain (as my old one snapped early on), lekkie buzz bar cranks (as the stock ones kept coming loose even with loctite) and the offset chainring from Futurebike in Italy.

 

[casainho]

You can add throttle just by conecting the missing wire to the controller. I just did that and it works.

So, the thing is that the version without throttle, just misses the cable from the motor controller to the throttle.

 

[tomjasz]

You can add throttle just by conecting the missing wire to the controller. I just did that and it works.

So, the thing is that the version without throttle, just misses the cable from the motor controller to the throttle.

Pictures!!

 

[casainho]

You can add throttle just by conecting the missing wire to the controller. I just did that and it works.

So, the thing is that the version without throttle, just misses the cable from the motor controller to the throttle.

Pictures!!

That is my throttle connector, with the 3 pins: VCC 5V, GND and throttle signal.
Please note that board is dead now and so I removed from the metal case to analyze it, etc.

 

[echew]

Ended up ordering a TSDZ2 kit that comes with a throttle from recycles-ebike.com

I think just fitting the thing will be enough of a challenge for my first e-bike conversion

 

[John and Cecil]

Ended up ordering a TSDZ2 kit that comes with a throttle from recycles-ebike.com

I think just fitting the thing will be enough of a challenge for my first e-bike conversion

It was actually pretty easy to install, although it was a bit time consuming to run the wires. The biggest problem I had was removing the crank arms, the tool I bought ended up just removing the threads inside the crank on one side. Luckily I had a gear puller lying around and I was able to get it off with that. The bb cartridge came out fairly easily with the tool, then the motor just slides right in and bolts up in a few minutes.

 

[wpenner]

Is there Any reason I can’t use a bbs02 gear change sensor and wire it into one of my ebrake lines? Or would it not cut out for long enough duration?

 

[John and Cecil]

Is there Any reason I can’t use a bbs02 gear change sensor and wire it into one of my ebrake lines? Or would it not cut out for long enough duration?

The brake cutoffs are just switches, the gear change device is a sensor. I do not believe that you can just hard wire it to use as a switch. I think casainho might be trying to get the gear sensor to work in the future, but it won't hook up to the brake switch connectors.

I am liking using the throttle for shifting though, it takes a little getting used to but you can shift pretty quickly once you master it.

 

[Timelord]

Nuvinci has already shown plans to integrate their cvt into a mid drive motor.

I wouldn't hold my breath for that. I doubt Fallbrook is going to be much different or do much better if and when they emerge from bankruptcy.

...Bafung...

Are you always misspelling this for a reason? I trust it's not intentional. It's either Bafang or, if you want to use their original name, 8fun. But not Bafung.
http://www.bafang-e.com/en.html

If you want your comments about that brand to show up in the site search, you should spell it right.