New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

r0mko said:
Ilpo said:
Hi,
I like tsdz2 more than BBS2 which I have had for 3 years.
Could you please share your experience? What do you like more in TSDZ2?

Easy installation (no need to change brake levers, only 3 cables to connect and hide).
Easy shifting (I have Shimano Nexus 7).
I get the extra assistance exactly when I need it (= when I start to pedal harder).
Nice small control / display (XH18).
Power cable is long enough from motor to battery on back rack.
Easy to set the max-speed.

Thanks for the 6km/h explanation.
 
My TSDZ2 works again!

I first broke the motor shaft, and got a replacement motor. After I reassembled the unit I plugged the connectors in wrong and blew up the controller. So I got a replacement controller and put that in tonight. And it worked!

After I posted my controller failure some people at the forum here recommended I go for the 48V controller. I checked with Future Bike and they did offer it. They also mentioned that they would sell it with a copper gear to replace the nylon one, to cope with the power increase. In the end I decided to stick with the standard controller, partly because of cost (the 48V controller was significantly more, and I would also have to buy a 48V battery to benefit from it) but also because I had already broken that motor shaft in the first 15km after installing the unit with 36V, so I was reluctant to increase power. Ok, if I understand motor theory correctly the 48V only increases the peak rpm, not the peak torque and the shaft must have yielded because of torque but still.

I hope it makes it past 15km this time ;)

And that 48V option might be interesting for others among you...
 
I have a spare one of these drives that I am thinking about putting on my recumbent trike. I'm having a hard time deciding on what battery to get though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-12-5Ah-Lithium-Battery-W-Charger-For-Mountain-Bike-Scooter-Motor-DIY-Kits/292009928107?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41394%26meid%3D89e3a32a8869480c847fe37da9a2bb58%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D152410048083

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36v-15ah-12S-LiFePO4-Battery-3A-Charger-BMS-Electric-Bicycles-Rechargeable-UPS-/172477092017?hash=item28286f90b1:g:5SwAAOSwt7pXNaSJ

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DuraB-36V-10AH-Bottle-Lithium-Li-ion-E-Bike-Battery-for-Bicycles-42V2A-Charger-/152366665789?

...or maybe have something built from the guy on here that builds packs from Tesla cells.
Anyone have any idea what kind of range I can expect from those Ebay batteries I listed? And should I go LiFePO4 or 18650 cells?
 
I was finally able to try out this motor today for first time. It works real smooth, rides really nice. It shuts off and on immediately when you start and stop pedaling,very nice.

Ordered an xh 18 display paired with 36V bottle battery , 18A continuous discharge current (NCR18650PF)

I did encounter some issues though, in decreasing severity below:

1. The motor assist stops working after about 10 minutes of riding , the xh18 display then shows an empty battery, speed sensor shows zero. If I then stop the bike, the battery shows full again. Need to disconnect the battery, then reconnect to make it (assist) work again. Did I get a dud?

2. twist grip on xh18 display doesn't rotate back to the center after twisting it up or down (should it? Maybe its on too tight, but any looser it wont stay put). It essentially stays stuck and this results in the cycling up or down the motor assist levels unless you twist it back to the center.

3. Speed sensor reads about 10 kph slower. The wheel size is set to 26 in the xh18. Speed sensor positioned incorrectly? I have the magnet centered on the speed sensor, almost touching the magnet as it passes.

4. Noticeable resistance when turning the crank by hand when the motor is off. Turning the crank backwards, there is no resistance (like normal). I think I read somewhere this eventually goes away??
 
Lakebod said:
1. The motor assist stops working after about 10 minutes of riding , the xh18 display then shows an empty battery, speed sensor shows zero. If I then stop the bike, the battery shows full again. Need to disconnect the battery, then reconnect to make it (assist) work again. Did I get a dud?
Encountered this once on my wife's bike on VLCD 5 display. After full power cycle (manually power off, disconnect the battery, connect it back, power on) this never happened again.

Lakebod said:
2. twist grip on xh18 display doesn't rotate back to the center after twisting it up or down (should it? Maybe its on too tight, but any looser it wont stay put). It essentially stays stuck and this results in the cycling up or down the motor assist levels unless you twist it back to the center.
I solved it by applying a small amount of silicone grease.

Lakebod said:
3. Speed sensor reads about 10 kph slower. The wheel size is set to 26 in the xh18. Speed sensor positioned incorrectly? I have the magnet centered on the speed sensor, almost touching the magnet as it passes.
Ensure that your speed setting is kph, not mph.

Lakebod said:
4. Noticeable resistance when turning the crank by hand when the motor is off. Turning the crank backwards, there is no resistance (like normal). I think I read somewhere this eventually goes away??
Resistance will never go, but it is basically nothing relative to force of your legs.
 
r0mko said:
Lakebod said:
1. The motor assist stops working after about 10 minutes of riding , the xh18 display then shows an empty battery, speed sensor shows zero. If I then stop the bike, the battery shows full again. Need to disconnect the battery, then reconnect to make it (assist) work again. Did I get a dud?
Encountered this once on my wife's bike on VLCD 5 display. After full power cycle (manually power off, disconnect the battery, connect it back, power on) this never happened again.

Lakebod said:
2. twist grip on xh18 display doesn't rotate back to the center after twisting it up or down (should it? Maybe its on too tight, but any looser it wont stay put). It essentially stays stuck and this results in the cycling up or down the motor assist levels unless you twist it back to the center.
I solved it by applying a small amount of silicone grease.

Lakebod said:
3. Speed sensor reads about 10 kph slower. The wheel size is set to 26 in the xh18. Speed sensor positioned incorrectly? I have the magnet centered on the speed sensor, almost touching the magnet as it passes.
Ensure that your speed setting is kph, not mph.

Lakebod said:
4. Noticeable resistance when turning the crank by hand when the motor is off. Turning the crank backwards, there is no resistance (like normal). I think I read somewhere this eventually goes away??
Resistance will never go, but it is basically nothing relative to force of your legs.

Thanks Romko. 1) has happened everytime the few times Ive used it. For 2) where did you apply the grease?. For 3), yes it is set to "km", I just double checked.
 
With regards to the incorrect speed, I noticed that the "magnet" field in the display settings was set to "02". Should have been set to "01" as there is only one magnet provided for the speed sensor (didn't know you could have more than one). The speed seems to be more accurate now. Might be a place to check if anyone else is having this problem.
 
I just bought a tsdz2 350W with the VLCD5.
The torque-sensor is fantastic, feels more realistic.
Bought a BEWO before, but the motor gave out after 2 years.
I opened it and it was full of grid.
I think it isn't water-tight well enough.
I live close to the sea and bike on the beach now and then.
The bewo couldn't deal with that I guess.
For the moment I am pretty happy with the cheap tsdz2
And while 350W isn't streetlegal over here,
the extra power is quite convenient.
Not for the speed, mind you, (I am 60) just easy pedalling,
often with a trolley for my dog or shopping attached.
I don't hear any strange noise from the motor, it's almost silent in lower RPM.
The VLCD5 is icky to get into programming mode.
Push "on" --- Within a second push "on+?" for +3 seconds.
Nothing changes on screen, BUT you can go further when pushing "?" several times.
Took me 10 times trying to get to it....
I read there is +6V for lighting from the display.
I can see 3 outlets with 3 small pins on the back of the display.
The outer ones probably for front brakes "cut power" --- I didn't install.
Maybe the middle outlet is suited, but you need the right tiny connector.
Let's hope this motor lasts longer....

Let's hope this one lasts longer....
 
Short report from my testing of the kit:

1st supplied motor:

Worked perfect for about 600 km. Very strong, and perfect for a cyclist like me. Then, for some strange reason. Both the motor and the display stopped working. The display only flashed, and no effect on the motor. So I got a new unit.

2nd unit:

Also worked very good for about 700 km. Decided to sell it - and bang! the new owner called after 1 hour. Luckily he still wanted to have it, but I had to replace the display first. Replaced it at the dealer and he took it back :)

+ very nice motor and torque
- not impressed by the quality. Not very water-resistant I believe - although I never drove in heavy rain.

Next motor will be a Bafang HD. Better parts support at least....
 
First post.

I thought I'd report on installation and first ride of a TSDZ2 kit.

Scenario: i live in Canberra, ACT, and cycle commute everyday plus take daughter in trailer three days per week to daycare. We live near fantastic cycling infrastructure so we have off-street shared paths the entire way and only cross two streets. My wife works in the city centre and the approx 12km journey was too far to commute. She does not have the same level of cycling experience or confidence. I wanted to build her an ebike so she could experience the same joy/freedom I do while cycling.

Parts:
First round:
- purchased new Reid X3 Urban bike off eBay.com.au during one of their 20% sales.
- TSDZ2 kit with XH18 screen off AliExpress. Seller indicated 'posted' mere hours after purchase. I think this was untrue as there was no tracking code until I demanded one and then when I looked up the tracking code the first time/date was the day after my message demanding a tracking code. This put my on edge as I have purchased a couple of hundred items from eBay and bike shops over the years and this was my first AliExpress purchase. AliExpress starts its 30 day buyer protection as soon as seller says item is posted. I was unsure if I would receive motor kit in time. In the end everything was fine.
- downtube 36v 11AH battery and charger off eBay.com.au

Second round:
- heatshrink
- new power/battery connector
- new 10 speed chain connector

Already had:
- cable ties
- chain oil
- tools and bike stand

Installation:
All very straightforward if you've wrenched on bikes before.
- Cut down left-hand grip for the XH18 display.
- Cables are not as neat as I would like at the moment. Run along left hand side chain stay part of frame and are coiled once. When heat shrink and new battery plug arrive I'll cut down to better length.
- only problem was I only had 11 speed chain connector, not one for a 10 speed (x3 Urban has a 10 speed deore). Used an old 11 speed chain for now.
- the battery plug came with battery. How annoying. That was literally the most fiddling around of the entire installation. I guess if I used a second time I'd be better at it.

Testing:
- I did an off-bike test of all connectors and battery to make it all worked before fitting it all. Very happy to see XH18 light up with "WELCOME"!
- first test after installation, everything works perfectly!
- only tweaking is of the calliper alignment and not the ebike kit.
- first long ride test, me on my bike with daughter and trailer, wife riding her new ebike. I had followed instructions about accessing settings screen (both buttons at same time) to set wheel size and maximum speed.
- wife just powers up hills now and overtakes me! She is very happy about this and makes sure to ring her bell to let me know she is overtaking. I'm pretty sure she's had a positive experience and is ready to attempt her work commute in.

Future:
- on-going reliability of TSDZ2 kit. I've tried to explain the importance of using higher ratio gears going up climbs, hopefully this will protect the mid drive stepper gear.
- riding in inclement weather. Unclear what wet weather reliability will be.
- chainring, might be better as a 38 or 40 tooth as the bike is set to a max of around 35km/h and doesn't need a 42 tooth chainring.
 
Some pictures of my bike.
 

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http://i.imgur.com/xjefDLc.jpg

Would I suggest the motor?

Absolutely yes for a hobby bike, not really if you drive around the year and require 100 % reliability.

I have other e-bikes which I use for daily commute so for me this motor makes sense. Power comes out very smooth and you can easily just pedal lighter to avoid damaging your freewheel. I'm a big lifter and I really like to pedal hard at times, so far the system has held together. The reason you get this motor is the smoothness, lightweight and lack of cables/external controllers.
 
I have heard there is a 48 volt 500 watt version coming of this motor, is this it? It even has a throttle as an option whenever you click into the detailed description.

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60619341449/Torque-sensed-wholesale-48V-500W-tsdz2.html?spm=a2706.8291533.0.0.j3pjNt#show_specifications
 
After my most recent repair and a month of biking the TSDZ2 is doing well. :D

I wanted a motor to help push me, my bike, 2 kids and bags up hills with up to 10% slope. Total weight adds up to 150kg. Before the TSDZ2 I managed with a very low granny gear but it was a sweaty job. The TSDZ2 makes things a lot nicer. It also makes it attractive to ride a route with less traffic, but with another hill and a brief slope of 15%.

In addition to being able to carry us up the hills, my criteria for the electric drive were as follows:
- Plan for 80% of riding without assistance, so low weight
- Keep large gearing range for use as a regular bike in the hills
- Torque assist, so it feels like a bike not a moped

So I ended up with the TSDZ2 and a small battery (36V, 6.4Ah, 20A continuous). I bought a Rohloff internally geared hub to keep a wide gear range after losing my front derailleur. The Rohloff was a splurge on a bike that cost $400 ten years ago but it's so nice! Coincidentally the XH18 control and the Rohloff gear change look nice and symmetric on both ends of my steering bar. With motor, battery and Rohloff my bike is now around 4.8kg heavier than before.

My TSDZ2 broke once, and I shorted it later (my fault) and I was able to repair both (see earlier posts). On the battery, I picked a small light one so it cycles through more of its capacity than a big one would. But it seems to deliver the current that the TSDZ2 requires, the capacity suffices for my use and even after the uphills the battery and motor get only hand-warm on the outside. I still use the slowest granny gear on the steep hills, and I suppose the low gearing keeps the the amps down and efficiency up.

So far so good!
 
Unread postby Aurinko80 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:29 pm

http://i.imgur.com/xjefDLc.jpg

Would I suggest the motor?

Absolutely yes for a hobby bike, not really if you drive around the year and require 100 % reliability.

What do you except from the cheapest chines mid drive in existence ? even the bafang BBS02 are not much better. For most people who don't use them often they may not realise how crap the material and reliability is . Also because all the gear reduction is internal with propriety parts its very hard like the bafang to repair it. unlike the good old cyclone mid drives that have external chain reduction which is easy for anyone to change, that's why their is people out their like cheecky bloke have done 10,000 miles on the same cyclone mid drive. whilst these cheep mid drives last 600kms and you need to buy another one ! just enough to make the sale and get out of the warranty.... like all cheap chines products ..
 
I certainly would expect it to work properly for the price. For the same reason I expect my gear hub, my wheels and tyres to work properly.
Like any bike component it needs a bit of maintenance every now and then. Other parts of my bike have required regular maintenance through out winter, but the motor has been left untouched untill now.

I just recently opened up my motor (after 2300 km) to re-grease everything according to my dealers instructions. I cleaned out the old grease, which looked ok btw, and put in some new stuff. I cleaned it and also added abit of sound-proofing because of the way the motors noise is amplified when it touches my cargo-bike frame.

The motor is running strong and I can't say there is anything different about it now compared to when it was new. It's been running fine all through winter in temperatures from -15 to +20. I've got a few error codes when it was really cold, but that seems to be because of how the temperature affects the battery. The motor still ran fine.

I don't wash my bike during winter, so the motor has been sitting in a slushy dirt and salt bath for a few months now. I had to replace a couple of screws when opening it up, but other than that it is perfectly corrosion free.

So, is it unreliable? I think not.

But when reading other peoples posts here, there seems to be some qc-issues. Fortunately dealers can spec the drives they order from tongsheng with higher or cheaper quality parts. Perhaps that's what we're seeing when people have drives that fail after a few kms?

Alex07 said:
Unread postby Aurinko80 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:29 pm

http://i.imgur.com/xjefDLc.jpg

Would I suggest the motor?

Absolutely yes for a hobby bike, not really if you drive around the year and require 100 % reliability.

What do you except from the cheapest chines mid drive in existence ? even the bafang BBS02 are not much better. For most people who don't use them often they may not realise how crap the material and reliability is . Also because all the gear reduction is internal with propriety parts its very hard like the bafang to repair it. unlike the good old cyclone mid drives that have external chain reduction which is easy for anyone to change, that's why their is people out their like cheecky bloke have done 10,000 miles on the same cyclone mid drive. whilst these cheep mid drives last 600kms and you need to buy another one ! just enough to make the sale and get out of the warranty.... like all cheap chines products ..
 
We'll see if the 48 volt version exists. Auto-ebike has notified my that mine has been shipped. Haven't been able to determine if it's on a fast, or slow, boat (or air) from China yet. Tracking numbers of EMS shipments require either a download of a 3rd party app from a China source (ain't gonna happen) or an additional verification number from the shipper, which I'm waiting on.

I'll be pairing it with a 52 Volt L-ion battery which has been shipped from Luna Cycles. My LBS will be installing it on a Steintrike Wild One when all the parts are on hand. Will report results when I get it working and have useful info - good or bad.
 
Alex07 said:
What do you except from the cheapest chines mid drive in existence ? even the bafang BBS02 are not much better. For most people who don't use them often they may not realise how crap the material and reliability is . Also because all the gear reduction is internal with propriety parts its very hard like the bafang to repair it. unlike the good old cyclone mid drives that have external chain reduction which is easy for anyone to change, that's why their is people out their like cheecky bloke have done 10,000 miles on the same cyclone mid drive. whilst these cheep mid drives last 600kms and you need to buy another one ! just enough to make the sale and get out of the warranty.... like all cheap chines products ..

I guess if there was a real quality problem we would get pictures from several people...

I got the TSDZ2 because I wanted a momentum controlled drive and there were no other decently priced motors available at the time.

I think you can drive 10000 miles on every single motor on the market. On average they should do that without any maintenance.
 
itchyfoot42 said:
We'll see if the 48 volt version exists. Auto-ebike has notified my that mine has been shipped. Haven't been able to determine if it's on a fast, or slow, boat (or air) from China yet. Tracking numbers of EMS shipments require either a download of a 3rd party app from a China source (ain't gonna happen) or an additional verification number from the shipper, which I'm waiting on.

I'll be pairing it with a 52 Volt L-ion battery which has been shipped from Luna Cycles. My LBS will be installing it on a Steintrike Wild One when all the parts are on hand. Will report results when I get it working and have useful info - good or bad.

I'm very interested to hear how your purchase and installation goes. I've been reading up over the last 3 weeks, getting eager to make a move/purchase. I had the opportunity to ride a torque sensing Giant twist bike about 3 years ago, and loved it. Cadence sensing units I've tested are a huge step down in the biking 'experience', in my opinion.
 
I came upon the following note on a forum for recumbent trikes regarding this motor, dated 3/20/17
[http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/archive/index.php?t-127860.html]

"We have now heard from Tongshen, the maker of the TSDZ2 drive, that they have a throttle controlled version. It is the same motor but different internal controller with the throttle mode installed. They are also shipping a 36v 500 watt system and also have a 48v version.

We are ordering most of our units with with the 500w version. For just a few dollars more its worth it. They also have a metal worm gears to replace the blue plastic one if you desire. The plastic ones are susceptible to damage if not used properly. Meaning start in low gears and power and work up. We have had an individual ride across the Canada and the U.S. and put over 10,0000 kilometers with the blue plastic gear and the motor is running fine still.
We have sold several of these units and they work fantistic. So far we have only had to replace a couple of gears due to high gear and high assist level at start.

If anyone is interested, TS is looking for dealers in the U.S. / Canada and regional distributors."
 
I ordered mine directly from Tongsheng, running @ 48V, 350W. I´m pleased with the quick response and general feel of it. Very reminiscent of the Bosch and Yamaha mid drives. Mounted on a stable high-end touring bike it´s speedy.

The torque sensor is optimized for lazy cycling: if I push just a bit the engine goes all in and there is no room for a surge. This is especially noticable if I chose a higher power setting - I usually keep mine in "Tour" mode, which gives a good cycle feel to it - at higher settings the engine simply seems to get more enthusiastic, pouncing too soon, without any real pedaling going on.

As an avid cyclist used to a high cadence I find it tapers off torque too soon. When I get Tour de France on a hill the motor promptly goes lazy on my ass. This encourages me to sort of rest against the engines torque instead of grinding my teeth, which is bad for my sport jock inclinations and ever growing tummy. If there was an easy way to reduce the gearing (I believe it´s 10:1 now) some 20% to make the engine peppier when pushing the tempo, I´d be all ears!

Also, my TSDZ2 bottom bracket (with the torque sensor) gets noisy and creaks a lot whenever I put power into my strokes. The overall feel is a bit soft and inprecise compared to a good Shimano, maybe to be expected but anyways, it worries me quality-wise. Maybe I´ll open it up and see what can be greased, but for now I´m unsure if that section is accessible for a home mechanic. Perhaps if I find spare parts on Aliexpress I´d be less weary. The creaking is loud enough to draw attention from fellow high-brow cyclists.

On a final note, I´m about to experiment with an extra chainring up front and if anybody knows of inner chainrings made for the unit, tapering inwards to improve the chainline, please tell! I ordered standard 110 bcd 50 & 34T rings, I´ll let you know how the front derailleur and chainline holds up.

Cheers!
 

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Oh, I forgot to mention one thing: the included crank arms together with the bulk on the drive side makes for an absoultely ridiculous q-factor, sqewed heavily to the right. I got some 4 cm to spare to my chainstay and that´s on a tourer with space for big tyres. Anybody who cares about their riding position will have to find some really tight mimimum-q replacement diamond square taper crank. Perhaps something from the BMX market. Or custom. It´s a headache really.
 
bjorsa said:
Oh, I forgot to mention one thing: the included crank arms together with the bulk on the drive side makes for an absoultely ridiculous q-factor, sqewed heavily to the right. I got some 4 cm to spare to my chainstay and that´s on a tourer with space for big tyres. Anybody who cares about their riding position will have to find some really tight mimimum-q replacement diamond square taper crank. Perhaps something from the BMX market. Or custom. It´s a headache really.

+1 about the ridiculous Q-factor ! another side effect is the pedals hitting the ground too frequently...

I'm lurking at these to solve the problem : SHIMANO STEPS FC-E6000 crank arm set

Anyone tried those already ?
 
Maybe some of the folks in the USA who have bought a TSDZ2, can you answer a couple questions?

1) Where did you order from?
2) How long did it take to get?
3) What was the total cost; shipping included?
 
bjorsa said:
Oh, I forgot to mention one thing: the included crank arms together with the bulk on the drive side makes for an absoultely ridiculous q-factor, sqewed heavily to the right..
Maybe you should try some cheap 170mm crank arms from a Bafang BBSxx. They don't have that much offset.
I ride with a Tongsheng crankarm on the left and a Bafang crankarm on the right, so the gap from pedal to downtube is pretty much the same.
 
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